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Dojo
17-03-2013, 11:44 PM
You may ask how conditions in the Stalinist nightmare that is North Korea could get any worse, and yet they seemingly are.....................


Reports from inside the secretive famine-hit pariah state, North Korea, claim a man has been executed after murdering his two children for food.

The grim suggestion that North Koreans are turning to cannibalism were reported by the Asia Press, and published in the Sunday Times.

They claim a 'hidden famine' in the farming provinces of North and South Hwanghae has killed 10,000 people, and there are fears that cannibalism is spreading throughout the country.

The reports come as sanctions are tightened against the backdrop of angry rhetoric over missile testing.

In one particularly disturbing report, a man was said to have dug up his grandchild's corpse. Other lurid reports included the suggestion that some men boiled their children before eating them.

Asia Press is a specialist news agency based in Osaka, Japan, which claims to have recruited a network of "citizen journalists" inside North Korea. The reports are considered credible.

Interviews have led Asia Press to conclude that more than 10,000 people have probably died in North and South Hwanghae provinces, south of Pyongyang, the capital.

North Korea has not confirmed or denied any reports of the deaths.

More at: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korean-cannibalism-fears-amid-claims-starving-people-forced-to-desperate-measures-8468781.html

Kev Bar
18-03-2013, 01:17 AM
Ouch

Is this the revolution devouring its young?

C. Flower
18-03-2013, 09:48 AM
The reports come as sanctions against the country are tightened against the backdrop of angry rhetoric over missile testing

Source - unlinked by the Independent - "Asia Times" a "network of secret citizen journalists"

Perhaps the sanctions should be dropped so as not to drive people further into poverty?

In the West, we have murder suicides by bankrupt people, and suicides of the hungry in Greece and elsewhere by the hundreds. I don't discount that it might be a true story.

C. Flower
18-03-2013, 09:50 AM
Mod - I've put a question mark in the title of this thread, due to the lack of verification.

Sam Lord
18-03-2013, 02:54 PM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.

jmcc
18-03-2013, 03:16 PM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.Two legged pork in China? If I was being cynical, I'd consider this to be somewhat psy-ops like.

Regards...jmcc

Dojo
18-03-2013, 04:51 PM
There's something seriously wrong with this site when the credibility of the UK Independent, a thoroughly reputable site is questioned.


Asia Press is a specialist news agency based in Osaka, Japan, which claims to have recruited a network of "citizen journalists" inside North Korea. The reports are considered credible.

Shove your "question mark".

Dojo
18-03-2013, 04:55 PM
The western propaganda news outfit, er, the Voice of Russia also reporting on this, albeit with a more skeptical tone.......

http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_02_13/Cannibalism-the-new-norm-in-North-Korea/

Dojo
18-03-2013, 04:57 PM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.

Really?? Even the Irish famine is littered with harrowing stories of parents eating the corpses of their children. :confused:

Ceannaire
18-03-2013, 05:07 PM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.


Really?? Even the Irish famine is littered with harrowing stories of parents eating the corpses of their children. :confused:

It's not implausible that the story is true, but if scepticism is legitimised I would say it is because it is difficult to confirm anything about North Korea, so it will be difficult to settle this question in itself.


The more important question is to what extent are the crippling sanctions imposed on North Korea responsible for the hardship and (potentially) starvation of the Korean people?


Even analysts who are paid to study the country have difficulty assessing the situation, but from my own observation it seems unlikely that the North Korean leadership will budge, and if anything has become more hardline in recent years, so the sanctions have only the effect of immiserating the populace, similar to the situation in Iraq in the 1990s.

Dojo
18-03-2013, 05:21 PM
It's not implausible that the story is true, but if scepticism is legitimised I would say it is because it is difficult to confirm anything about North Korea, so it will be difficult to settle this question in itself.


The more important question is to what extent are the crippling sanctions imposed on North Korea responsible for the hardship and (potentially) starvation of the Korean people?


Even analysts who are paid to study the country have difficulty assessing the situation, but from my own observation it seems unlikely that the North Korean leadership will budge, and if anything has become more hardline in recent years, so the sanctions have only the effect of immiserating the populace, similar to the situation in Iraq in the 1990s.

The "crippling" sanctions are ineffective, at best. It's well known that China doesn't enforce the UN sanctions and trades extensively with the North. However much of the Chinese goods crossing the Yalu River is diverted towards the NK Army. During the famine of the 90's western aid given to North Korea was diverted almost entirely towards the military with very little food actually getting to the people that need it. The west, or the UN bears zero responsibility for the strife in the North Korean state. The Kim regime is entirely responsible for all the suffering for its people.

Kev Bar
18-03-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.

Are you telling me now that what Swift said was not true?

Damn.

Binn Beal
18-03-2013, 06:02 PM
I've heard that nuns are being raped in "the secretive famine-hit pariah state".
Also they are killing puppies and kittens for sport.

It's about time the West had a proper war and attacked North Korea again to end this sort of thing.

Kev Bar
18-03-2013, 06:03 PM
It was only a matter of time before we heard about the nuns.

Binn Beal
18-03-2013, 06:08 PM
I heard it from a man in the pub who thought he saw it on Fox News or he could have read it in one of the English Sunday papers.
That's good enough for me. War Now!

Kev Bar
18-03-2013, 06:29 PM
I heard it from a man in the pub who thought he saw it on Fox News or he could have read it in one of the English Sunday papers.
That's good enough for me. War Now!

That;s my over-heated breath going down yr neck.

Charge

SeŠn Ryan
18-03-2013, 06:29 PM
What is the point behind these stories that appear?

Is it to knock a particular political model or is it to gather consensus in order to alleviate suffering? Methinks it's the former. If I'm correct, it puts the political mindset behind it as being worse than that which it seeks to undermine.

My point is not aimed at you specifically Dojo and it's most certainly not aimed at undermining your view. For what it's worth, I appreciate your viewpoint and enjoy arguing, conversing, debating or whatever one wishes to call it, with you.

These are matters that are close to all our hearts. There's bound to be passion when we throw our views at each other. Don't fall under the weight of it. Look out a window and nothing much will have changed. Chin up ;)

C. Flower
18-03-2013, 08:02 PM
There's something seriously wrong with this site when the credibility of the UK Independent, a thoroughly reputable site is questioned.



Shove your "question mark".

Max Fisher of the Washington Post seems to know his North Korean onions and is sceptical.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/05/the-cannibals-of-north-korea/

Here is the "Asia Times" website -

http://www.asiapress.org/rimjin-gang/

Count Bobulescu
18-03-2013, 09:08 PM
Ah Jeez, not yet another thread on cannibalism. For the last one, PW censors decreed that amongst others the first graf of a NYT report was unsuitable for the delicate eyes of readers here, While reports on the same story it made the front page of the Irish Times online. Check out the first page of the US politics forum.

Meself, itís all the twelve year old's with fake IDís on here masquerading as thirteen year old's that I worry about.

C. Flower
18-03-2013, 09:13 PM
Ah Jeez, not yet another thread on cannibalism. For the last one, PW censors decreed that amongst others the first graf of a NYT report was unsuitable for the delicate eyes of readers here, While reports on the same story it made the front page of the Irish Times online. Check out the first page of the US politics forum.

Meself, itís all the twelve year old's with fake IDís on here masquerading as thirteen year old's that I worry about.

Thankfully that whole business has blanked itself out of my over-13 mind, so I am not worrying at all.

Dojo
19-03-2013, 12:29 AM
I heard it from a man in the pub who thought he saw it on Fox News or he could have read it in one of the English Sunday papers.
That's good enough for me. War Now!

War should be the last thing anyone would want. I'd prefer if China lent more on Pyongyang to get them to open up more to the world. What's going on there is a stain on the world's conscious, but alas there's probably very little we can do bar sanctions and embargoes.

Kev Bar
19-03-2013, 12:38 AM
War should be the last thing anyone would want. I'd prefer if China lent more on Pyongyang to get them to open up more to the world. What's going on there is a stain on the world's conscious, but alas there's probably very little we can do bar sanctions and embargoes.

And as we have seen sanctions and embargoes do very little to those who seem indifferent to the plight of their people bar making the plight worse.

Dojo
19-03-2013, 12:42 AM
And as we have seen sanctions and embargoes do very little to those who seem indifferent to the plight of their people bar making the plight worse.

Bollox. Has it occured to you that the reason why ordinary NK citizens are so bloody poor is because the government there spends nearly all its meagre revenue on the military? But hey, you go on right ahead and blame everything on the US and the west. :rolleyes:

Sam Lord
19-03-2013, 05:36 AM
Really?? Even the Irish famine is littered with harrowing stories of parents eating the corpses of their children. :confused:

Your made up history may well be "littered" with such stories but I doubt that anyone who has really studied the matter could point to more than one or two recorded cases of cannibalism during the famine. And I defy you to link me to a source which demonstrates that Irish people killed and ate their children.

fluffybiscuits
19-03-2013, 03:25 PM
Bollox. Has it occured to you that the reason why ordinary NK citizens are so bloody poor is because the government there spends nearly all its meagre revenue on the military? But hey, you go on right ahead and blame everything on the US and the west. :rolleyes:

Its a conflicting situation in NK as they spend about a quarter of their annual GDP on defence. The US in contrast though appears to spend a lot higher (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm) so the land of the free is a little hypocritical. It can be said though without a doubt that there is an issue with the economic sanctions which could deny access to food and medecine and add to a famine that is happening. Look at what happened to Iraq during the last 'War on Terror'...

Kev Bar
19-03-2013, 05:55 PM
Bollox. Has it occured to you that the reason why ordinary NK citizens are so bloody poor is because the government there spends nearly all its meagre revenue on the military? But hey, you go on right ahead and blame everything on the US and the west. :rolleyes:

It never occured to me.

Just like you never read what I wrote.

And I don't run a blame the west habit.

C. Flower
19-03-2013, 06:14 PM
CF Mod <removed off topic post>

C. Flower
19-03-2013, 06:20 PM
Your made up history may well be "littered" with such stories but I doubt that anyone who has really studied the matter could point to more than one or two recorded cases of cannibalism during the famine. And I defy you to link me to a source which demonstrates that Irish people killed and ate their children.


I don't know about "littered" but historians say it may have happened and one or two cases are mentioned here.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Cannibalism-was-likely-practiced-in-Irish-famine-says-leading-expert-151504185.html

If it happened in Ireland, it probably happens elsewhere where there are famines. It is desperate to think of what people go through.

Binn Beal
19-03-2013, 09:05 PM
Those two cases were indeed interesting. The one of the mother eating the child's leg just goes against my gut instinct and the evidence is a bit tenuous but the other case of the washed up sailor does sound credible. If that is the sum total of the evidence for cannibalism during the Famine, then the case falls. To suggest 'likely practised' on such evidence is a great slander on the hundreds of thousands of Famine victims.

Also, I had to snort at the experts talking about ending world poverty. Have they not noticed yet that food is a commodity and is priced by the same economic laws as other commodities? Hunger is good for business.

random new yorker
20-03-2013, 03:22 AM
I'm sceptical for one. The world has seen many famines over the centuries yet I've never heard of people eating their children.

..hmmm Sam, a situation like this has come up to my attention in Africa, i didnt save the piece cos who wants to read about that? i would have to find the appropriate links etc.

@Binn...there may be something a lot more interesting in history books regarding sailors and cannibalism, worth taking a trip down THAT road and you might find some reality about our animal human nature.
Agreed on snorting at the experts talkin' about ending world poverty (although my reasons might be a tad different from yours).

C. Flower
29-03-2013, 10:18 AM
Finnian Cunninghan's view is that this is pure **** being dished out in the style of the fake "babies ripped out of incubators" story spun by the US disinformation media about Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait and says that North Korea is being set up for war. The fake "stoning" story about Iran (now gone very quiet) was the same type of faked story that the UK military would describe as "psyops."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/12/293245/western-media-set-up-north-korea-for-war/

Ceannaire
29-03-2013, 01:30 PM
North Korea has one of the world's most powerful armies. A confrontation is not in US interests any time in forseeable future. There's still going for the low-hanging fruit; Syria is a much easier target. I wouldn't believe anything I read on that fascist website anyway.

Binn Beal
29-03-2013, 01:32 PM
The US seems to be hell-bent on war with North Korea or else it is playing a very dangerous game of chicken. Sending stealth bombers to test the radar was extremely reckless unless, of course, you want to draw a response.

random new yorker
29-03-2013, 05:35 PM
need to pay more attention to this?

Saoirse go Deo
29-03-2013, 06:06 PM
Your made up history may well be "littered" with such stories but I doubt that anyone who has really studied the matter could point to more than one or two recorded cases of cannibalism during the famine. And I defy you to link me to a source which demonstrates that Irish people killed and ate their children.
You are right, there is next to no evidence of cannibalism during the famine.

I know of only one reported instance where a woman supposedly ate the feet of her deceased child. She was then reported by her husband to the authorities. They investigated and dug up the shallow grave outside the family's mud cabin but because of the state of decomposition the investigation was inconclusive.

All the documentary evidence points towards families slowly dying together - a tragically typical scene was a family, beyond hope and near death, shutting themselves into their cabin to await the inevitable, the barely living and the dead huddled together in a corner.

The cabin was often then collapsed on top of them and it became their grave.

EDIT: I'll go further, it's actually almost racist to suggest that Koreans are eating their young because of a famine when the evidence from famines the world over shows that this is very very rare.

Dojo
29-03-2013, 10:38 PM
Finnian Cunninghan's view is that this is pure **** being dished out in the style of the fake "babies ripped out of incubators" story spun by the US disinformation media about Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait and says that North Korea is being set up for war. The fake "stoning" story about Iran (now gone very quiet) was the same type of faked story that the UK military would describe as "psyops."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/12/293245/western-media-set-up-north-korea-for-war/

Is there anything you are not willing to blame on the nasty Americans? Seriously, it is like you are trying to go out of your way to excuse all manner of depravity by Iran, North Korea and Syria. But you really should know that Press TV is the propaganda arm of the Ayatollahs of Iran, rather like RT. Using Press TV and RT for your biased views really shows you up. Epic fail.

C. Flower
29-03-2013, 10:46 PM
Is there anything you are not willing to blame on the nasty Americans? Seriously, it is like you are trying to go out of your way to excuse all manner of depravity by Iran, North Korea and Syria. But you really should know that Press TV is the propaganda arm of the Ayatollahs of Iran, rather like RT. Using Press TV and RT for your biased views really shows you up. Epic fail.

The epic fail was basing a thread on a totally unsubstantiated rumour.

Dojo
29-03-2013, 11:03 PM
North Korea has one of the world's most powerful armies. A confrontation is not in US interests any time in forseeable future. There's still going for the low-hanging fruit; Syria is a much easier target. I wouldn't believe anything I read on that fascist website anyway.

Wrong. Quantity does NOT equal quality. The North Korean "Army" is laughable and would be decimated within a few weeks if the US and South Korea decided to go all in. Hell the South Koreans could probably win a war against Pyongyang alone.


On paper, North Koreaís armed forces are formidable, but their actual capabilities are less than the raw data suggest, given the obsolescence of most North Korean equipment. Around one-half of North Koreaís major weapons were designed in the 1960s; the other half are even older. Also, it is certain that due to shortages of spare parts, fuel, and poor maintenance, some weaponry will not be functional. The US Armyís Cold War system for comparing hardware capabilities suggests that ground combat units equipped with modern Western weaponry are about 20Ė40% more combat effective than units of comparable size with out-of-date equipment. After the 1991 Gulf War, the US-based Analytic Sciences Corporation developed a more up-to-date and realistic model for comparing forces, known as the Technique for Assessing Comparative Force Modernization (TASCFORM), which was utilised in the 1990s by the Pentagonís Office of Net Assessment. According to this model, modern Western weaponry is generally two-to-four times more capable than Soviet systems.

Using TASCFORM methodology, it is estimated that North Koreaís heavy armoured forces, possessing enough combat hardware to equip perhaps ten US divisions, have an actual capability equivalent to about 2.5 US armoured divisions. With equipment operated by the infantry added, the North Korean ground forces possess an overall firepower which is equivalent to nearly five modern US heavy divisions. By comparison, Iraq was assessed as having six modern division equivalents when the same TASCFORM scoring system was used in 1990. Using the same methodology, North Korean airpower, the equivalent to six US wing equivalents in size, corresponds to only two F-16 wing equivalents in estimated net capability.

http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dossier/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-military-balance-on-the-kore/

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/experts-say-myth-clouds-reality-of-north-koreas-true-military-capabilities/story-fndir2ev-1226596260281

Ceannaire
29-03-2013, 11:05 PM
The US seems to be hell-bent on war with North Korea or else it is playing a very dangerous game of chicken.


The latter is more plausible. Allow tensions to escalate puts China on the spot as North Korea's main sponsor and is embarrassing to them. A more realistic aim than winning a war with North Korea would be for China to feel forced to pull the plug and the Kim regime to disintegrate (which it would), like what happened to countries in Eastern Europe after Gorbachev stopped proppoing them up.


It is also an excuse to build up militarily to provide for a possible confrontation with China, hence the the recent missile defence system announced on the East Coast which was announced under the ruse of the threat from North Korea even though the nuclear threat they pose is clearly not sufficient to warrant it.

Dojo
29-03-2013, 11:07 PM
The epic fail was basing a thread on a totally unsubstantiated rumour.

Reported as credible by the respected UK Independent. Whoops!

Seriously, HOW are you even an administrator? You're biased pro Stalinist views are disgraceful.

Ceannaire
29-03-2013, 11:25 PM
Wrong. Quantity does NOT equal quality. The North Korean "Army" is laughable and would be decimated within a few weeks if the US and South Korea decided to go all in. Hell the South Koreans could probably win a war against Pyongyang alone.



http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dossier/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-military-balance-on-the-kore/

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/experts-say-myth-clouds-reality-of-north-koreas-true-military-capabilities/story-fndir2ev-1226596260281


If the North Korean army is "laughable" then WHY does the very article which you provided state that a war would be "EXTREMELY DEMANDING" on US forces, and go on to suggest that the best part OF A MILLION TROOPS would have to be deployed? What definition of "laughable" allows the term to apply to an army whose defeat would require HALF A MILLION even to be possible? And you did not give ONE SCINTILLA of evidence to support your claim that they could be defeated in "a few weeks". It took "a few weeks" to defeat Saddam who had an army whose equipment was WAY more decrepit and was only 375,000 in size, whereas North Korea's army is THIRTY TIMES that size. NOR did you justify your claim that South Korea would be able to defeat North Korea on its own. Can you provide ANY evidence to support the claim that little South Korea would be able to defeat an army when it would be "EXTREMELY DEMANDING" for the WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER to do so?

C. Flower
29-03-2013, 11:33 PM
Reported as credible by the respected UK Independent. Whoops!

Seriously, HOW are you even an administrator? You're biased pro Stalinist views are disgraceful.

We don't take our standards here from the commercial news press which prints nonsense of all kinds every day. It was unsubstantiated and remains so.

random new yorker
30-03-2013, 03:16 AM
If the North Korean army is "laughable" then WHY does the very article which you provided state that a war would be "EXTREMELY DEMANDING" on US forces, and go on to suggest that the best part OF A MILLION TROOPS would have to be deployed? What definition of "laughable" allows the term to apply to an army whose defeat would require HALF A MILLION even to be possible? And you did not give ONE SCINTILLA of evidence to support your claim that they could be defeated in "a few weeks". It took "a few weeks" to defeat Saddam who had an army whose equipment was WAY more decrepit and was only 375,000 in size, whereas North Korea's army is THIRTY TIMES that size. NOR did you justify your claim that South Korea would be able to defeat North Korea on its own. Can you provide ANY evidence to support the claim that little South Korea would be able to defeat an army when it would be "EXTREMELY DEMANDING" for the WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER to do so?

Oh Please FFS

We just flew one or two of our beauties today half way round the world and back....

and I dont think there's any need for droppin' anything out there either way.

errrr Ceannaire i didn't even go thru the trouble of reading that article but maybe eh...pay attention to the news...yea, when in the world would you believe we would go in with any troops??

ever heard of technology, drones and the like...g-d only knows what else is staked up, if you folks think we are going anywhere with people, then help yourself to your delusion.

Even China is fed up with them.


And now that I see the North Korea vs South Korea comparison above....

do you ever take the time to compare the results of the ideology you espouse on the lives of real people...like, boots on the ground kind of people, take a good look at quality of life on either side and maybe you will wake up from this ideology that numbs your reasoning.

random new yorker
30-03-2013, 03:43 AM
So we keep our facts checked:

Kim Jong-un (born 8 January 1983 or 1984) is the supreme leader of North Korea, the son of Kim Jong-il (1941–2011) and the grandson of Kim Il-sung (1912–1994)


LOVEit

they dont even know when he was born.

Ceannaire
30-03-2013, 03:51 AM
Oh Please FFS

We just flew one or two of our beauties today half way round the world and back....

and I dont think there's any need for droppin' anything out there either way.

errrr Ceannaire i didn't even go thru the trouble of reading that article but maybe eh...pay attention to the news...yea, when in the world would you believe we would go in with any troops??

ever heard of technology, drones and the like...g-d only knows what else is staked up, if you folks think we are going anywhere with people, then help yourself to your delusion.

Even China is fed up with them.


And now that I see the North Korea vs South Korea comparison above....

do you ever take the time to compare the results of the ideology you espouse on the lives of real people...like, boots on the ground kind of people, take a good look at quality of life on either side and maybe you will wake up from this ideology that numbs your reasoning.


I was replying to a specific (and utterly ludicrous) assertion made about the relative strengths of the US and North Korean military. Drones and other forms of targeted bombing have their uses, but are for wiping out specific targets, not an army of ten million.


And I don't agree with the strange ideology of the twisted totalitarian North Korean regime; you're just straw-manning; it is "Juche", a sort of nationalist ideology of self-sufficiency which I as an internationalist have little time for. Furthermore, the quasi-monarchial hereditary totalitarian political system is utterly opposed to my own beliefs. It can be difficult to get more detailed reliable information on the situation given the regime's reclusiveness and the Western media's bias against regimes hostile to US interests in general, but if it is true that the leaders live lifestyles as luxurious as has sometimes been painted whilst their people starve, then that too is grotesque and repulsive. Astute members of this forum may guess that my liberal use of capital letters was a parody of Dojo's tendency to use them as if they somehow justify a ludicrous viewpoint, not based out of a passionate conviction in the regime, etc. However, none of this is to say I believe the regime, however repulsive it is, should be overthrown by force or subjected to isolation which is counter-productive.


Unfortunately, you have been indoctrinated too much in the "you are either with us or against us" war on terror mentality. It is unfortunate that you seem unable to understand that it is possible both to disagree with America's foreign policy and oppose the Kim dynasty/al-Qaeda/Saddam Hussein, etc., etc. People who opposed the invasion of Iraq didn't do so because they loved Saddam Hussein. I was not defending the Kim regime; I was defending fact.

Count Bobulescu
30-03-2013, 04:47 AM
The latter is more plausible. Allow tensions to escalate puts China on the spot as North Korea's main sponsor and is embarrassing to them. A more realistic aim than winning a war with North Korea would be for China to feel forced to pull the plug and the Kim regime to disintegrate (which it would), like what happened to countries in Eastern Europe after Gorbachev stopped proppoing them up.


It is also an excuse to build up militarily to provide for a possible confrontation with China, hence the the recent missile defence system announced on the East Coast which was announced under the ruse of the threat from North Korea even though the nuclear threat they pose is clearly not sufficient to warrant it.

A bizarre statement. You clearly have not being paying attention to recent US defense budget discussions.
Here's but one example of many I could provide.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/04/the-threats-to-the-defense-budget-in-5-charts

Also, your statement in another post about being opposed to US foreign policy per se, apparently no matter what it is, betrays an unwillingness or inability to judge individual matters on their merits.
FYI: since the title of this thread focuses on cannibalism, youíll likely find more robust discussion of current matters in the Korean War thread.

C. Flower
30-03-2013, 09:07 AM
A bizarre statement. You clearly have not being paying attention to recent US defense budget discussions.
Here's but one example of many I could provide.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/04/the-threats-to-the-defense-budget-in-5-charts

Also, your statement in another post about being opposed to US foreign policy per se, apparently no matter what it is, betrays an unwillingness or inability to judge individual matters on their merits.
FYI: since the title of this thread focuses on cannibalism, you’ll likely find more robust discussion of current matters in the Korean War thread.

Would you like to link when you purport to quote people please ?

Permanent US bases in Australia for the first time, and Obama banging on relentlessly about the shift to the East ?

What is all that about then ?

C. Flower
30-03-2013, 09:09 AM
So we keep our facts checked:

Kim Jong-un (born 8 January 1983 or 1984) is the supreme leader of North Korea, the son of Kim Jong-il (1941Ė2011) and the grandson of Kim Il-sung (1912Ė1994)


LOVEit

they dont even know when he was born.

Yes, and you had the two Bushes.

But I didn't notice the North Koreans parking themselves in Mexico and shaking spears at you.

Sam Lord
30-03-2013, 09:23 AM
Hell the South Koreans could probably win a war against Pyongyang alone.


They must be immune to nuclear weapons so. Now back to your school books General Dojo.

Sam Lord
30-03-2013, 09:41 AM
..yea, when in the world would you believe we would go in with any troops??

ever heard of technology, drones and the like...g-d only knows what else is staked up, if you folks think we are going anywhere with people, then help yourself to your delusion.



Seems a bit silly keeping tens of thousands of troops in the region if they would never be used. And expensive ...

musashi
30-03-2013, 02:48 PM
The US seems to be hell-bent on war with North Korea or else it is playing a very dangerous game of chicken. Sending stealth bombers to test the radar was extremely reckless unless, of course, you want to draw a response.

Which is precisely the point. And North Korea obliges them.
There is no other valid reason for the US overflying North Korean airspace with their most advanced weaponry.
I'm interested in seeing how China responds to this US misadventure, and to today's declaration of war from North Korea.

random new yorker
30-03-2013, 03:28 PM
I was replying to a specific (and utterly ludicrous) assertion made about the relative strengths of the US and North Korean military. Drones and other forms of targeted bombing have their uses, but are for wiping out specific targets, not an army of ten million.


And I don't agree with the strange ideology of the twisted totalitarian North Korean regime; you're just straw-manning; it is "Juche", a sort of nationalist ideology of self-sufficiency which I as an internationalist have little time for. Furthermore, the quasi-monarchial hereditary totalitarian political system is utterly opposed to my own beliefs. It can be difficult to get more detailed reliable information on the situation given the regime's reclusiveness and the Western media's bias against regimes hostile to US interests in general, but if it is true that the leaders live lifestyles as luxurious as has sometimes been painted whilst their people starve, then that too is grotesque and repulsive. Astute members of this forum may guess that my liberal use of capital letters was a parody of Dojo's tendency to use them as if they somehow justify a ludicrous viewpoint, not based out of a passionate conviction in the regime, etc. However, none of this is to say I believe the regime, however repulsive it is, should be overthrown by force or subjected to isolation which is counter-productive.


Unfortunately, you have been indoctrinated too much in the "you are either with us or against us" war on terror mentality. It is unfortunate that you seem unable to understand that it is possible both to disagree with America's foreign policy and oppose the Kim dynasty/al-Qaeda/Saddam Hussein, etc., etc. People who opposed the invasion of Iraq didn't do so because they loved Saddam Hussein. I was not defending the Kim regime; I was defending fact.

OK I'll give you astute

but would you reconsider your belief that I have been indoctrinated?

you think indoctrinated americans spend time sharing opinions w you here?

random new yorker
30-03-2013, 03:30 PM
Seems a bit silly keeping tens of thousands of troops in the region if they would never be used. And expensive ...

there's a new form of warfare going on out there as we speak....

more later

Count Bobulescu
30-03-2013, 08:11 PM
Would you like to link when you purport to quote people please ?

Permanent US bases in Australia for the first time, and Obama banging on relentlessly about the shift to the East ?

What is all that about then ?

My apologies, Iíll withdraw it if Iím incorrect. I just searched for it on the two Korean threads and couldnít find it. Perhaps Ceannaire remembers the context, I donít recall the precise wording so canít really search for it. In my defense, I donít think many would accuse me of normally failing to provide links, and it was at the end of a long day.

Similarly, I suspect Ceannaire would be (highly) offended if anyone accused him of being a ďlapdogĒ of the Great Satan (if we still have any lapdogs). So, no harm, no foul. I'll address Australia etc. in the other thread.

Separately, I notice that you seem to have given Ceannaire a ďpassĒ on his absolutely derogatory denigration of your beloved PressTV. Enemy of my enemy is my friend I suppose. :)

Dojo
03-04-2013, 05:59 PM
They must be immune to nuclear weapons so. Now back to your school books General Dojo.

Well I guess a fanatical Commie like you would know the true capabilities of the psychotic North Korean regime I guess, a country that doesn't yet have the means to successfully deploy a nuclear weapon. Whoops! Sucks to be you.

Seriously, how the phuck can anyone even defend the Kim regime? Actually scratch that, plenty of morons on this site seem perfectly content doing just that. :rolleyes:

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:01 PM
Seems a bit silly keeping tens of thousands of troops in the region if they would never be used. And expensive ...

Perhaps NK should stop threatening nuclear war (lol) against its neighbours so.

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:02 PM
Which is precisely the point. And North Korea obliges them.
There is no other valid reason for the US overflying North Korean airspace with their most advanced weaponry.
I'm interested in seeing how China responds to this US misadventure, and to today's declaration of war from North Korea.

Sigh. They didn't fuking fly over NK airspace you complete bellend!

random new yorker
03-04-2013, 06:16 PM
Well I guess a fanatical Commie like you would know the true capabilities of the psychotic North Korean regime I guess, a country that doesn't yet have the means to successfully deploy a nuclear weapon. Whoops! Sucks to be you.

Seriously, how the phuck can anyone even defend the Kim regime? Actually scratch that, plenty of morons on this site seem perfectly content doing just that. :rolleyes:

I may not agree w many things Sam et al say but would never call him or anyone on this site names for having opinions that differ from mine.

It would be nice if you can find it in yourself to offer your apologies.

There will be NO debate if we all hold the same opinions on all issues don't you think?

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:21 PM
I may not agree w many things Sam et al say but would never call him or anyone on this site names for having opinions that differ from mine.

It would be nice if you can find it in yourself to offer your apologies.

There will be NO debate if we all hold the same opinions on all issues don't you think?

Er, Sam is a Commie Communist. But fair point on the "morons" bit. Apologies.

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 06:43 PM
Well I guess a fanatical Commie like you would know the true capabilities of the psychotic North Korean regime I guess, a country that doesn't yet have the means to successfully deploy a nuclear weapon. Whoops! Sucks to be you.


Would successfully deploy include putting one in an airplane and dropping it out the door like the Americans did twice over a half century ago? They wouldn't have to fly very far ..



Seriously, how the phuck can anyone even defend the Kim regime? Actually scratch that, plenty of morons on this site seem perfectly content doing just that. :rolleyes:

The rest of your post does not really warrant a response as it is a juvenile farrago of strawmen and ad hominen fallacies.

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 06:44 PM
Perhaps NK should stop threatening nuclear war (lol) against its neighbours so.

Your post is a nonsense as it does not follow in any way logically the discussion it purports to add to.

C. Flower
03-04-2013, 06:48 PM
Perhaps if Dojo is no longer standing over the cannibalism story, we might abandon this thread and post on the thread that deals with the threat of war between the US and Korea.

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Er, Sam is a Commie Communist.

Your inanity apparently recognises no limit. You seem to be on a one person mission to lower the quality of discussion on the site.

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:53 PM
Perhaps if Dojo is no longer standing over the cannibalism story, we might abandon this thread and post on the thread that deals with the threat of war between the US and Korea.

Where did I say I was abandoning the story? Hell it's not even "my" story. It's clear such reports emanating out of your glorious "workers paradise" (lol) North Korea embarrasses you and you'd rather hide any mention of such news stories, hence your determination to discredit reports, deemed credible by major news outlets like the respected UK Independent.

Tell me, what's your agenda here? Why do you defend monstrous regimes like the Kim dynasty but denounce the US if President Obama so much as farts in a clean air zone? :confused: Hmmm?

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:55 PM
Your inanity apparently recognises no limit. You seem to be on a one person mission to lower the quality of discussion on the site.

It can't go any lower than zero, a rating CommieWorld.org seems hell bent on defending with ultra partisan moderators intolerant of anyone who isn't a foaming at the mouth Trotskyist.

Dojo
03-04-2013, 06:56 PM
Would successfully deploy include putting one in an airplane and dropping it out the door like the Americans did twice over a half century ago? They wouldn't have to fly very far ..



The rest of your post does not really warrant a response as it is a juvenile farrago of strawmen and ad hominen fallacies.

Their "nuke" is believed by international experts to be too big to fly in a plane. :D

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 07:09 PM
It can't go any lower than zero, a rating CommieWorld.org seems hell bent on defending with ultra partisan moderators intolerant of anyone who isn't a foaming at the mouth Trotskyist.

You're just embarrassing yourself now.

Ceannaire
03-04-2013, 07:09 PM
It can't go any lower than zero, a rating CommieWorld.org seems hell bent on defending with ultra partisan moderators intolerant of anyone who isn't a foaming at the mouth Trotskyist.


You say that having just accused the site's moderators of being Stalinists. Anyone who knows what the words mean will appreciate how absurd that is, and it lays bare your willingness to throw abuse for its own sake, which is unacceptable.


What do want the site's users to do? Change their political views because they differ with yours? That's what your constant complaints about the political views of the site's users would seem to imply. The overwhelming liberal capitalist consensus of the establishment media and public discourse has just inflated your confidence such that it gives you a sense of justification in abusing without need for argument anyone who doesn't bow to the consensus.

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 07:17 PM
Their "nuke" is believed by international experts to be too big to fly in a plane. :D

Source please. I'm interested in "Believed".

Dojo
03-04-2013, 07:34 PM
You say that having just accused the site's moderators of being Stalinists. Anyone who knows what the words mean will appreciate how absurd that is, and it lays bare your willingness to throw abuse for its own sake, which is unacceptable.


What do want the site's users to do? Change their political views because they differ with yours? That's what your constant complaints about the political views of the site's users would seem to imply. The overwhelming liberal capitalist consensus of the establishment media and public discourse has just inflated your confidence such that it gives you a sense of justification in abusing without need for argument anyone who doesn't bow to the consensus.

For most sensible people who couldn't give a crap about the various shades of bullshit that is the world communist movement they will generally lump adherents of Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Lenin, and all the other crazy bastards together into one unholy mess. Because, at the end of the day, IT'S ALL THE SAME. :rolleyes:

Sam Lord
03-04-2013, 07:40 PM
For most sensible people who couldn't give a crap about the various shades of bullshit that is the world communist movement they will generally lump adherents of Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Lenin, and all the other crazy bastards together into one unholy mess. Because, at the end of the day, IT'S ALL THE SAME. :rolleyes:

Bogus methods of argument 101

a. Identifying yourself with "sensible" people.
b. Having words mean whatever you wish them to mean.

Binn Beal
04-04-2013, 01:05 AM
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

In Dojoland, calling people names is the same as offering an opinion.

Count Bobulescu
04-04-2013, 01:17 AM
For the record, Dojo downed tools, and walked of the job at PW today. He said yis can all go [email protected]#$%^&* yerselves. Check the Abusive comment thread

C. Flower
04-04-2013, 01:40 AM
Leaving the cannibalism thread as his principal legacy.

Thanks, Dojo. :(