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View Full Version : The SAS - The Real Story - Channel 4 - May 1st 10



C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:20 PM
On now on Channel 4, as an alternative to "Britain's Got Talent".

Extraordinary photograph of Thatcher with her SAS boys in gas masks.:eek:
Worth it just for that.

So far, recommended.

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:34 PM
How Thatcher used the SAS to break a prison strike. Now moving on to Ireland.

mutley
01-05-2010, 08:37 PM
I'm watching :cool:

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:42 PM
Sectarian killings used by Wilson in 1976 to deploy the SAS in South Armagh.

"Its role had not been thought through"

Had just spent 6 years fighting a secret war in the Gulf"

"N.I. should be a job for armed police" SAS didn't know the rules, the law or the area.

They came straight from heavy combat to N.I.

mutley
01-05-2010, 08:47 PM
"Catholic South Armagh", the British never vary from the script that this was a war between two Religions

Gruffalo
01-05-2010, 08:48 PM
It always amuses me how the British Military never get the irony of them calling others terrorists.

truth.ie
01-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Can this be watched online?

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:51 PM
"How could the SAS use lethal force and at the same time follow the law? - They were to find a way".

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:53 PM
Can this be watched online?

Can't see it here - but the one on Oman should be worth watching.


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sas-the-real-story/episode-guide/series-1

mutley
01-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Can this be watched online?

You might catch it on 4 on demand

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:56 PM
1987 - Loughgall - acting on information - the SAS were said to have deliberately put soldiers in the police station to act as "targets" to justify killing the 8 IRA men.
The bomb went off and injured soldiers and the SAS shot two innocent passers by.
A huge success, the SAS thought.

Gruffalo
01-05-2010, 08:57 PM
"How could the SAS use lethal force and at the same time follow the law? - They were to find a way".

How could 2 countries invade another sovereign country, slaughter their people, pillage their natural assets and at the same time claim the moral high ground? Terrorist Tony and Genocide George were to find a way

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 08:58 PM
They claim to have killed 38 people in Ireland.

After '83 they killed 18 people in three years (previous years none).

Sam Lord
01-05-2010, 09:00 PM
They claim to have killed 38 people in Ireland.

Does it say how many of them the ra got ?

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:02 PM
1987 - A huge success, the SAS thought.

Their entire history in the north was a success if you believe their account. Apparently the only SAS man killed was the one Francis Hughes got up the Ranaghan Road. Still no explanation what happened the carload riddled in Cappagh. Not to mention Sgt. Oram who was SAS when he killed the 'Baddies' in Derry but was some other regiment when Hogan/Martin blew his ambush in Dunloy. A lot of car crashes and helicopter accidents in Germany methinks.

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 09:02 PM
Does it say how many of them the ra got ?

Not yet.

Sam Lord
01-05-2010, 09:03 PM
Can't see it here - but the one on Oman should be worth watching.


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sas-the-real-story/episode-guide/series-1

Will they do Aden where the Brits got their asses handed to them on a plate?

truth.ie
01-05-2010, 09:03 PM
There was also the heroic case of the young teenage lad in County Antrim who stumbled across an IRA cache of weapons near a graveyard..
He ran back and told his father, who phoned the police.
Two weeks later and the police had still not seized the weapons, so the curious teenager went back to the site to see if they were still there.
The SAS shot him dead on the spot unarmed!
Will he get a mention I wonder.

truth.ie
01-05-2010, 09:06 PM
Another SAS soldier was shot and seriously wounded by uniformed British soldiers in Derry.(early 90s)
He was running through the Rosemount estate in civvies, gun in hand, after a grenade attack on the local base.
A passing Army patrol riddled him.

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 09:07 PM
Will they do Aden where the Brits got their asses handed to them on a plate?

There's a link to the series a bit further back in the thread. This is the first I've seen.

truth.ie
01-05-2010, 09:09 PM
Their entire history in the north was a success if you believe their account. Apparently the only SAS man killed was the one Francis Hughes got up the Ranaghan Road. Still no explanation what happened the carload riddled in Cappagh. Not to mention Sgt. Oram who was SAS when he killed the 'Baddies' in Derry but was some other regiment when Hogan/Martin blew his ambush in Dunloy. A lot of car crashes and helicopter accidents in Germany methinks.
Didn't the M60 crew kill an SAS capt?
Westmacott?
After he raided a house to kill the Vols inside....unfortunately for him, they were in the house next door, and capped his ass.

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:11 PM
There was also the heroic case of the young teenage lad in County Antrim who stumbled across an IRA cache of weapons near a graveyard..
He ran back and told his father, who phoned the police.
Two weeks later and the police had still not seized the weapons, so the curious teenager went back to the site to see if they were still there.
The SAS shot him dead on the spot unarmed!
Will he get a mention I wonder.

Hugh Boyle, a child with special needs. They compounded the family's grief by claiming he had pointed the weapons at the SAS. It was so ironic given the slight chances that anyone in Dunloy would contact the police about anything. His father died just a while back, still a broken man.

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:16 PM
Didn't the M60 crew kill an SAS capt?
Westmacott?
After he raided a house to kill the Vols inside....unfortunately for him, they were in the house next door, and capped his ass.

Certainly did but the creative history allows for attributing them to their original regiments. 'Killer in Clowntown' an awful book about Joe Doherty's extradition battles refers to Herbie as SAS throughout. However Paul Meyer on t'other place says only one so who are we to argue?

People Korps
01-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Didn't the M60 crew kill an SAS capt?
Westmacott?
After he raided a house to kill the Vols inside....unfortunately for him, they were in the house next door, and capped his ass.

May 1980 http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/history/northern-ireland/part2 (http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/history/northern-ireland/part2/)/

May 1980
When an IRA team are cornered in a Belfast residential neighborhood, an SAS unit move in in unmarked cars. The SAS storm the wrong house and the IRA are able to engage the SAS with an M-60 machine gun, mounted in a bedroom window. SAS caption Richard Westmacott was killed as his SAS team exit their vehicle. Soon after, the IRA team surrenders to regular units.

In the same year they sat by while

January 1981
Sinn Fein politician, Bernadette McAliskey and her husband are shot by Loyalist gunmen at their home in Coalisland. It later transpires that an SAS OP was watching the house but did not arrest the gunmen until after they had carried out the shooting.


Was Bernadette SF?
Hmmmm

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 09:21 PM
The timing and the politics are important.




The peak period of the MI5 plot against Wilson's Labour government provides the best opportunity to investigate the origins of what Ambush calls "the shoot to kill legend" and SAS involvement in "dirty tricks" operations. As soon as Labour won the February 1974 election, MI5 began destabilising Prime Minister Harold Wilson and his policies in Northern Ireland. In May 1974, the Power-sharing Executive was brought down by the Ulster Workers' Council strike - with the help of MI5 and the Loyalist paramilitaries. Two days into the strike, Loyalist paramilitaries exploded car-bombs in Dublin and Monaghan, without warning, during the evening rush-hour, killing 33 civilians - 26 in Dublin and 7 in Monaghan. To date, these bombings led to the largest loss of life in the conflict over the last 26 years. At a press conference in Dublin in March 1989 (at which Fred Holroyd was invited to speak), Irish journalist Frank Doherty noted that the bombings happened during the high-point of efforts by MI5 to bring down the Power-sharing Executive. He also said that he had been told in 1974, by a former British soldier, Albert "Ginger" Baker (also a member of the MRF), that the bombings were "definitely an Intelligence job" Baker had a been a member of the Loyalist unit that had carried out the bombings, and Doherty claimed that it was a pseudo gang formed as a front by British Intelligence. (27) (In Ken Livingstone's recent book Livingstone's Labour, there is the transcript of an interview Livingstone conducted with Baker).
As the MI5 campaign against Wilson intensified, so did the Army's "dirty tricks" operations in Ireland. In 1975, with Loyalist paramilitries and the SAS unit at Castledillon, MI5 helped undermine the ceasefire. Loyalist killings of civilians increased from 87 in 1974, to 96 in 1975, to a peak of 110 in 1976.(28) The truce with the IRA had been secretly negotiated by MI6 in the aftermath of the Birmingham pub bombings. Ambush has scant details of this, although it confirms that the Army were "furious" with the secret talks with the IRA, believing that they had the IRA "on the run". Colin Wallace confirmed in 1980 that MI5 officers in Northern Ireland not only objected to Wilson being Prime Minister, but to his Irish policies. (29)


http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/dirty_war_in_ireland.htm

Sam Lord
01-05-2010, 09:28 PM
Didn't the lose two corporals at a funeral in Belfast in 1988?

mutley
01-05-2010, 09:29 PM
Certainly did but the creative history allows for attributing them to their original regiments. 'Killer in Clowntown' an awful book about Joe Doherty's extradition battles refers to Herbie as SAS throughout. However Paul Meyer on t'other place says only one so who are we to argue?

wonder where Paul naffed of to, Me and Gruffalo, used to have great craic, rubbishing his rubbish

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:31 PM
I have in front of me a book called SAS Terrorism, The Assassin's glove, a cheap but harrowing production from Faul and Murray published in July 76.

It centres on the murder of Peter Cleary, the arrest of the SAS that crossed the border at Flagstaff and the ensuing harassment of an Belfast born Irish Soldier in retalliation for the arrests. It chronicles 304 cross border incursions and the plot to murder Brendan Murray.

The SAS were found in possession of gloves with steel-lined fingers on the night of 5-6 May 1976 when they made an incursion into the Republic and were arrested. The Assassin's glove is an apt representation of how they work. The steel torture instruments are concealed in cloth. In the same way the terrorism of the SAS is hidden in the embroidered cloth of Westminster legislation. Terrorism is all the more shameful when sheathed in legality.

Helps to explain to those who can't understand why violence was a way of life, exactly why many people had no qualms about the killing of british soldiers, regardless of the lazy criticism and condemnation from fellow Irishmen.

C. Flower
01-05-2010, 09:31 PM
Nairac ?

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:33 PM
Was Bernadette SF?
Hmmmm

Maybe Irish Independence Party at that point I think, def not SF.

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:36 PM
wonder where Paul naffed of to,

Helmand? Basra? Or maybe he just got Sky?

Gruffalo
01-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Helmand? Basra? Or maybe he just got Sky?

Are you insinuating that Paul would simply drop his crusade for the reeducation of Irish Republicans so as to indulge himself in cheap entertainment*. Oh ye of little faith.

*Sky cheap? Who am I kidding?

5intheface
01-05-2010, 09:42 PM
Are you insinuating that Paul would simply drop his crusade for the reeducation of Irish Republicans so as to indulge himself in cheap entertainment*. Oh ye of little faith.
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Perish the thought. Crowley called him 'Panzer Meyer' :D

Gruffalo
01-05-2010, 09:44 PM
Perish the thought. Crowley called him 'Panzer Meyer' :D

He called him a lot more than that IIRC. Aah the memories

mutley
01-05-2010, 09:49 PM
Good times :)

Lapsedmethodist
01-05-2010, 11:53 PM
Frankly speaking I never thought they were all they were cracked up to be. When they were first stationed in Castledillon, you could spot them a mile away... like driving powder blue Fords .... something no self-respecting Norner would be seen dead in. ( that's a wee bit of dark humour, so it is )
When I got married I took the Mrs into Castledillon to see the lake and the bluebell glades where once I played as a lad etc etc. One of the gobshi*es came up to us and asked if we wanted a spin in the boat... a kind of flatbottomed aluminium thing. Under my nodding and winking, herself said yes. The bonehead driving the thing whizzed round the island twice and took us back to the wee jetty, never having spoke a word the whole time. The whole exercise was to let them search our car.
When they left Castledillon in the late '90's there were two full skips of car number plates left behind. That's your numbers and my numbers ! No wonder people got suspected of touting with those gobshi*es riding around with civilian number plates.