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fluffybiscuits
02-03-2013, 12:52 AM
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/scouse-a-class-accent/

Red Pepper is carrying an interview with Tony Crowley who wrote a novel on the Scouse accent and its place in society. The scouse accent for a while society viewed it as being an accent with which it carried steretypes that most notably of class and your ethnicity. Post Famine Immigration into Liverpool in the aftermath of the Irish famine had a huge impact on the development of the Scouse accent in contrast to that of the surrounding areas where the accents developed very differently.As the Scouse accent developed (surprisingly the article says only from the mid half of the twentieth century) that other accents gained a lot of privelege over that of the Scouse accent as it was then associated with crime ridden areas and other social issues. Did anything similar happen in Ireland?

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 12:04 PM
During the boom our national inferiority complex led to the abandonment of most Irish accents in favour of the ugly Dortspeak.

fluffybiscuits
02-03-2013, 12:10 PM
During the boom our national inferiority complex led to the abandonment of most Irish accents in favour of the ugly Dortspeak.

Town is full of it, Sydney Parade heads whose every utterance is punctuated with like and they have a major superiority complex. One old bat I work with looks down her nose at a few of us in work due to our accents. MTV can also be blamed for encouraging this pretentious ********...

Captain Con O'Sullivan
02-03-2013, 01:00 PM
One feels compelled to attend the barricades. Let us hie ourselves thence.

Shaadi
02-03-2013, 01:34 PM
The put on accents are sickening, but there's a lot to be said for teaching kids how to speak clearly. I've had to interpret what my flaah accented Offaly work colleague was saying for some of our international colleagues. My daughter had a teacher who insisted water was pronounced waher and got quite thick about it. The buke, dis dat and de udder, etc. The English "I fink" , how can teachers let that slide without correcting it? They're things you should be correcting in your own kids speech so that they can communicate properly.

Having said all that, ability is ability regardless of accent and the more pretentious people are the bigger the chance is that they're spoofers who can't do the job right anyway.

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 01:49 PM
The put on accents are sickening, but there's a lot to be said for teaching kids how to speak clearly. I've had to interpret what my flaah accented Offaly work colleague was saying for some of our international colleagues. My daughter had a teacher who insisted water was pronounced waher and got quite thick about it. The buke, dis dat and de udder, etc. The English "I fink" , how can teachers let that slide without correcting it? They're things you should be correcting in your own kids speech so that they can communicate properly.

Having said all that, ability is ability regardless of accent and the more pretentious people are the bigger the chance is that they're spoofers who can't do the job right anyway.

Bet your daughter's Offaly teacher could walk ayhee klommers with nothin tate buha bagga tayho. Know whaha mane?

:)

Shaadi
02-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Bet your daughter's Offaly teacher could walk ayhee klommers with nothin tate buha bagga tayho. Know whaha mane?

:)
:D To a tee. Straight from the Biffo triangle located somewhere between Pullagh, Rahan and Clara


Although that's just like an Athlone, Ballinasloe underclass accent as well.

Holly
02-03-2013, 02:11 PM
England is a very class conscious society and accent is a maker of class there. This is not the case in Ireland.

C. Flower
02-03-2013, 02:12 PM
"blah blah blah blah ......" :) It's funny when you can't understand a word a fellow countryman says.

It's more of a rural - urban divide in Ireland than a class divide.

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 02:22 PM
:D To a tee. Straight from the Biffo triangle located somewhere between Pullagh, Rahan and Clara


Although that's just like an Athlone, Ballinasloe underclass accent as well.

Pullough's a wonderfully traditional sort of a place. They're very suspicious of foreign innovations like marrying outside the family. :)

A few years ago I encountered a teacher from the Wesht who come to an Offaly school and couldn't get his head around the use of 'may' instead of 'must'.

C. Flower
02-03-2013, 02:24 PM
We still say "I do be" around here :)

Holly
02-03-2013, 02:25 PM
"blah blah blah blah ......" :) It's funny when you can't understand a word a fellow countryman says.

It's more of a rural - urban divide in Ireland than a class divide.
At a Spanish airport a few years ago, I heard a couple deep in conversation. I didn't recognize the language and I tried to place it, thinking it sounded rather northern European but not as far north as Sweden or Norway and I speculated it could be Iceland. I was astonished when shortly I picked up some familiar words and then I realized they were from Ulster somewhere and they were speaking English!

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 02:31 PM
We still say "I do be" around here :)

Blondie-Denise (Dutch TV) - YouTube

Saoirse go Deo
02-03-2013, 02:40 PM
I know a guy in trinity who is from the west, yet speaks with a D4 accent.

People sometimes try to mock me for my (mild) Drogheda accent - at least its genuine says I and not some pretentious hybrid English aristocrat/American assault on the ear drums. Boggles the mind that people choose to speak like that.

Convinced Robbie Keane gets as much stick as he does because of his accent. Compare him to Brian O'Driscoll. (or is that BOD? Or Drico?).

Holly
02-03-2013, 02:50 PM
I know a guy in trinity who is from the west, yet speaks with a D4 accent.
People will adjust their speech in order to be understood and this is usually done subconsciously. Also, some people have a musical ear and they seem to acquire the dominant accent wherever they happen to be. Generally, an accent is largely set by the age of puberty and a small minority will have it quite locked, unamedable to change.


People sometimes try to mock me for my (mild) Drogheda accent ...
As long as it's only mild. :D

RaggedTrousers
02-03-2013, 03:40 PM
We still say "I do be" around here :)

I think usage of Hibernian English is probably a greater marker of class than accent. Certainly of educational background.

C. Flower
02-03-2013, 05:28 PM
I think usage of Hibernian English is probably a greater marker of class than accent. Certainly of educational background.

Yes, those of us who evaded the National School System.

Sim anseo gach ta'

RahenyFG II
02-03-2013, 05:34 PM
Town is full of it, Sydney Parade heads whose every utterance is punctuated with like and they have a major superiority complex. One old bat I work with looks down her nose at a few of us in work due to our accents. MTV can also be blamed for encouraging this pretentious ********...

I know. People who watch shows like Jersey Shore use the phrases from that and talk in American accents. Positively makes me feel an outcast in this weird modern world. I'm saying that and I'm only 24:confused:

jmcc
02-03-2013, 11:41 PM
A few years ago I encountered a teacher from the Wesht who come to an Offaly school and couldn't get his head around the use of 'may' instead of 'must'.Actually there might be (phase of the moon speculation) a class indicator in the use of "can" and "may". 'May I do this?' is a polite and subservient way of asking permission. 'Can I do this?' does not have the same level of subservience about it. How does one use 'may' instead of 'must'? :)

Regards...jmcc

Spectabilis
03-03-2013, 12:37 AM
I think usage of Hibernian English is probably a greater marker of class than accent. Certainly of educational background.

You may be right RT, but I think there is a received standard Hiberno English just as there is a received standard English. We no longer need to refer to RSE in some colonial sense.

We are all capable of different registers, informal or formal - one for the internet, one for the pals and one for addressing the UN. But accent is a different matter. Only the Daniel Day Lewises are capable of adopting another accent convincingly . The arguments I have heard from people about preserving regional accents have usually come from those who have standard accents. I have a sneaking feeling that some would like to keep people in their place by denying them the chance to select a more formal pronunciation, just as they can choose a more formal register for the UN. I think people should be able to choose to say turty tree for thirty three, not be condemned to it as if it were some biologically determined trait. Kathleen Lynch TD, I am looking at you:)

Some politicians, I suspect, with an eye to the local vote use an exaggerated local accent. Did someone say Healy Rae?

Sidewinder
03-03-2013, 04:51 AM
I know a guy in trinity who is from the west, yet speaks with a D4 accent.

It's nothing new. It's well over 20 years since I first arrived at UCD and I knew quite a few people that arrived from some village in de Wesht with a normal accent, and by the end of first year they had full-on adopted Dortspeak. It's an abomination of an accent, and anyone who thinks Ireland doesn't have accent-based class snobbery isn't living in the real world (or has never encountered Deefers!).

I've lived in 4 different counties in Ireland, the US, Switzerland and New Zealand over the last 40 years and while some of the rough edges might have been worn off the accent so that it is clearly understandable to forreners, it's still obviously an Ulster accent. Can't stand spoofers, frauds and fakes and shallow idiots adopting fake accents to over-compensate for their inferiority complex.

Slim Buddha
03-03-2013, 07:15 AM
I know a guy in trinity who is from the west, yet speaks with a D4 accent.


.

Is he a sort of "reverse" Eamonn O´Cuiv?

Baron von Biffo
03-03-2013, 10:19 AM
Actually there might be (phase of the moon speculation) a class indicator in the use of "can" and "may". 'May I do this?' is a polite and subservient way of asking permission. 'Can I do this?' does not have the same level of subservience about it. How does one use 'may' instead of 'must'? :)

Regards...jmcc

Telling your child 'You may do your homework before watching telly' instead of 'you must do your homework before watching telly'.

'You may get a new tyre or you'll fail the NCT'.

jmcc
03-03-2013, 10:34 AM
Telling your child 'You may do your homework before watching telly' instead of 'you must do your homework before watching telly'.

'You may get a new tyre or you'll fail the NCT'.Ah. I thought that was a Wexford thing as it sounds a bit archaic. Is there any Yola influence in the local accent there?

Regards...jmcc

Baron von Biffo
03-03-2013, 10:38 AM
Ah. I thought that was a Wexford thing as it sounds a bit archaic. Is there any Yola influence in the local accent there?

Regards...jmcc

Sorry jmcc but I haven't a clue about that. All my life I've used 'may' in that way and never even thought about it until the man from the West remarked on it.

jmcc
03-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Sorry jmcc but I haven't a clue about that. All my life I've used 'may' in that way and never even thought about it until the man from the West remarked on it.It is a strange thing, Baron,
The Yola language (an old/Middle English) used to be common in Wexford. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language ). The may/must thing seems odd as I think that I've only heard some Wexford people use it.

Regards...jmcc

fluffybiscuits
03-03-2013, 06:10 PM
It's nothing new. It's well over 20 years since I first arrived at UCD and I knew quite a few people that arrived from some village in de Wesht with a normal accent, and by the end of first year they had full-on adopted Dortspeak. It's an abomination of an accent, and anyone who thinks Ireland doesn't have accent-based class snobbery isn't living in the real world (or has never encountered Deefers!).

I've lived in 4 different counties in Ireland, the US, Switzerland and New Zealand over the last 40 years and while some of the rough edges might have been worn off the accent so that it is clearly understandable to forreners, it's still obviously an Ulster accent. Can't stand spoofers, frauds and fakes and shallow idiots adopting fake accents to over-compensate for their inferiority complex.

Your post reminds me of two women on the bus out to Cavan I was on , on Thursday . They were discussing Jersey Shore but adopted the very accents that are used in the programme, it all came out as pretentious ******. They seemed to be almost ashamed of who they were / are and tried to fit into a more structured way of speaking so they could be like their peers. Im a soft spoken Dub with a little bit of a Meath accent (as my parents are from Ballyfermot but I was raised in Meath for a few years!)

Shaadi
03-03-2013, 07:30 PM
Sorry jmcc but I haven't a clue about that. All my life I've used 'may' in that way and never even thought about it until the man from the West remarked on it.I worked with a lot of Offaly lads over the years and they'd always say, we may make a start on whatever project it was we had in front of us. Never thought anything of it at the time, but it seems to stop dead on the border. Might have something to do with the plantations, Birr seems to be a strange spot, like a bit of northern Ireland plonked in the middle of the country.

fluffybiscuits
03-03-2013, 07:31 PM
I worked with a lot of Offaly lads over the years and they'd always say, we may make a start on whatever project it was we had in front of us. Never thought anything of it at the time, but it seems to stop dead on the border. Might have something to do with the plantations, Birr seems to be a strange spot, like a bit of northern Ireland plonked in the middle of the country.

Its cold in Birr...I'll get my coat (cost its cold!) ...see what I did there !

Baron von Biffo
03-03-2013, 07:36 PM
I worked with a lot of Offaly lads over the years and they'd always say, we may make a start on whatever project it was we had in front of us. Never thought anything of it at the time, but it seems to stop dead on the border. Might have something to do with the plantations, Birr seems to be a strange spot, like a bit of northern Ireland plonked in the middle of the country.

A funny one that seems to stop at the Laois border is 'chap' meaning a small or baby boy

"Mrs. Murphy had her baby."

"Was it a girl or a chap?'

Shaadi
03-03-2013, 07:37 PM
Its cold in Birr...I'll get my coat (cost its cold!) ...see what I did there !Birrd!:)


And wet Fluffy.

I remember hearing somewhere that anywhere within a 30 mile radius of Birr is statistically the worst place in the world to live for someone with arthritis.

fluffybiscuits
03-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Birrd!:)


And wet Fluffy.

I remember hearing somewhere that anywhere within a 30 mile radius of Birr is statistically the worst place in the world to live for someone with arthritis.

I think living in the Irish state itself is dangerous to health!

morticia
03-03-2013, 07:50 PM
Dunno what happened to South Dublin while I was away; at some point since 1998, teenagers stopped having accents that were recognisably Irish (Southsider as spoken by any over 30), and now sound, in some cases, almost indistinguishable from TV West Coast US.

Still having difficulty understanding why and how. The kids all seem to be adopting it by secondary school age. Sigh

fluffybiscuits
03-03-2013, 07:50 PM
Dunno what happened to South Dublin while I was away; at some point since 1998, teenagers stopped having accents that were recognisably Irish (Southsider as spoken by any over 30), and now sound, in some cases, almost indistinguishable from TV West Coast US.

Still having difficulty understanding why and how. The kids all seem to be adopting it by secondary school age. Sigh

I blame the thickos on MTV....its all pretentious!

Apjp
03-03-2013, 09:44 PM
You may be right RT, but I think there is a received standard Hiberno English just as there is a received standard English. We no longer need to refer to RSE in some colonial sense.

We are all capable of different registers, informal or formal - one for the internet, one for the pals and one for addressing the UN. But accent is a different matter. Only the Daniel Day Lewises are capable of adopting another accent convincingly . The arguments I have heard from people about preserving regional accents have usually come from those who have standard accents. I have a sneaking feeling that some would like to keep people in their place by denying them the chance to select a more formal pronunciation, just as they can choose a more formal register for the UN. I think people should be able to choose to say turty tree for thirty three, not be condemned to it as if it were some biologically determined trait. Kathleen Lynch TD, I am looking at you:)

Some politicians, I suspect, with an eye to the local vote use an exaggerated local accent. Did someone say Healy Rae?

That is how I use my numbers. I have a Meath/slight Drogheda area accent. The jokes the Dublin types in college have been giving me the last 3 years are getting tiring at this stage. Only me North Dublin friends keep their accents. Some people south of the Liffey really are Americans with Lisps.

Apjp
03-03-2013, 09:46 PM
Telling your child 'You may do your homework before watching telly' instead of 'you must do your homework before watching telly'.

'You may get a new tyre or you'll fail the NCT'.

Meath people do that too. It's not purely an Offaly thing. Probably a national trait, the use of may in place of might and must and vice versa. Remember reading about it somewhere.

Apjp
03-03-2013, 09:49 PM
Couldnt agree more with Sidey. I think the problem is in the television. Too many parents letting their kids grow up on horseshyte.

RahenyFG II
03-03-2013, 09:58 PM
Dunno what happened to South Dublin while I was away; at some point since 1998, teenagers stopped having accents that were recognisably Irish (Southsider as spoken by any over 30), and now sound, in some cases, almost indistinguishable from TV West Coast US.

Still having difficulty understanding why and how. The kids all seem to be adopting it by secondary school age. Sigh

The girl in that KPMG video is a typical example of most Southside teenagers

Dojo
03-03-2013, 10:49 PM
I blame the thickos on MTV....its all pretentious!

I'd be all for a one off reintroduction of Section 31 if it meant the banning of MTV from Irish screens. Oh and send the Ranger Wing into TV3 studios to take out whoever commissioned that load of bollox "Tallifornia". :mad:

Often I hear someone talking on the Luas or train and I cannot determine if they're an American or Irish. Since when did we develop an mid Atlantic accent? :confused:

Saoirse go Deo
03-03-2013, 11:38 PM
The girl in that KPMG video is a typical example of most Southside teenagers


Sadly that seems to be the case. Couldn't get over how prevalent that stereotype was when I moved to Dublin.

Although I'm pretty safe from that over here on the northside :)

C. Flower
04-03-2013, 06:30 AM
I'd be all for a one off reintroduction of Section 31 if it meant the banning of MTV from Irish screens. Oh and send the Ranger Wing into TV3 studios to take out whoever commissioned that load of bollox "Tallifornia". :mad:
:

:)

Slim Buddha
04-03-2013, 12:13 PM
I'd be all for a one off reintroduction of Section 31 if it meant the banning of MTV from Irish screens. Oh and send the Ranger Wing into TV3 studios to take out whoever commissioned that load of bollox "Tallifornia". :mad:

Often I hear someone talking on the Luas or train and I cannot determine if they're an American or Irish. Since when did we develop an mid Atlantic accent? :confused:



Since the advent of AA Roadwatch. The RTE weather went through a phase where accents or simply plain diction were weird. We we being told of "Clydes in the Sythe" and so on. Fortunately, I do not have to listen ot it.

Still, we don't have the same problem that our neighbours next door have. I heard the Glasgow accent described as "an aggressive growl perched on an underlying fundament of menace". Which could be useful in certain interviews.

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Rindabites abound in the AA roadwatch reports and there is a city called Coke.:)

Baron von Biffo
04-03-2013, 12:22 PM
Rindabites abound in the AA roadwatch reports and there is a city called Coke.:)

OMFG Coke is like sooooo 90s - Quo-urk - is the required pronunciation these days.

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 12:35 PM
You are right Baron. Quo-ork it is:)

fluffybiscuits
04-03-2013, 02:31 PM
Rindabites abound in the AA roadwatch reports and there is a city called Coke.:)

When you say rindabites it comes out sounding like a Donegal accent :D

Whilst in Cavan last weekend, I heard the local drawl.....CCCCaaaaavvvaaaaaaaannnnn!

Meanwhile info on South Wexford English..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language#Modern_South_Wexford_English

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 02:40 PM
You are right Fluffy. It should be 'rined -abites' I think I need classes in Dortwrite:)

fluffybiscuits
04-03-2013, 02:58 PM
You are right Fluffy. It should be 'rined -abites' I think I need classes in Dortwrite:)

When am I wrong ;) On second thoughts dont answer :D

Ogiol
04-03-2013, 03:35 PM
When you say rindabites it comes out sounding like a Donegal accent :D

Whilst in Cavan last weekend, I heard the local drawl.....CCCCaaaaavvvaaaaaaaannnnn!

Meanwhile info on South Wexford English..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language#Modern_South_Wexford_English

Donegal accent me arse... in donegalist it would be rown-abouts

and the caaaaaaaaaaavan drawl is hilarious!

Shaadi
04-03-2013, 03:53 PM
When you say rindabites it comes out sounding like a Donegal accent :D

Whilst in Cavan last weekend, I heard the local drawl.....CCCCaaaaavvvaaaaaaaannnnn!

Meanwhile info on South Wexford English..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language#Modern_South_Wexford_EnglishThat explains the Wexford accent, but where the hell did the Wicklow accent come from? I worked with a guy from Wicklow that sounded like he was from the English West-Country with his oohs and aars, and Katie Taylor ( ducks ) she's sounds like a throwback.

fluffybiscuits
04-03-2013, 03:58 PM
That explains the Wexford accent, but where the hell did the Wicklow accent come from? I worked with a guy from Wicklow that sounded like he was from the English West-Country with his oohs and aars, and Katie Taylor ( ducks ) she's sounds like a throwback.

I can answer that.

In the course of the plantations, a large number of English and Scottish settled in the area. Some good mates of mine are from Tinahely and Shillelagh are from the area and still are practicing Protestants and have a tinge of Dublin accents. :)

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 03:59 PM
There is a 'Y' in Cavan.

Shaadi
04-03-2013, 04:06 PM
I can answer that.

In the course of the plantations, a large number of English and Scottish settled in the area. Some good mates of mine are from Tinahely and Shillelagh are from the area and still are practicing Protestants and have a tinge of Dublin accents. :)Thanks Fluffy, it's the weirdest accent in the country IMO.

Ogiol
04-03-2013, 04:07 PM
There is a 'Y' in Cavan.

inded.. its like cyauvan (hard c there)

as gaeilge ceábhan (phonically anyway ;)

fluffybiscuits
04-03-2013, 04:11 PM
Thanks Fluffy, it's the weirdest accent in the country IMO.

Sorry should have said tinge of English accent! :o

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 04:13 PM
Just heard AA Roadwatch name a new junction: Newlands Crow-ss

Shaadi
04-03-2013, 04:26 PM
I can answer that.

In the course of the plantations, a large number of English and Scottish settled in the area. Some good mates of mine are from Tinahely and Shillelagh are from the area and still are practicing Protestants and have a tinge of Dublin accents. :)It just goes to show how we're moulded by our environments. nearly 400 years ago and the remnants of the accents remain. History is closer than we think, my own father's grandfather would have been born just before the famine. That's very little distance travelled in a family line from over 160 years ago. It's not so hard to figure how attitudes and accents get passed down when you think of it in those terms.

fluffybiscuits
04-03-2013, 04:28 PM
It just goes to show how we're moulded by our environments. nearly 400 years ago and the remnants of the accents remain. History is closer than we think, my own father's grandfather would have been born just before the famine. That's very little distance travelled in a family line from over 160 years ago. It's not so hard to figure how attitudes and accents get passed down when you think of it in those terms.

Cognitive dissonsance its called isnt it? Now with the world being more globalised people tend to be more exposed to other ideas which become predominant like that of MTV and the Jersey Shore pretentious accents.

Spectabilis
04-03-2013, 04:31 PM
It used to seem that radio, TV and cinema would eliminate local accents. That has not proved so. Though listening to some older people, it is obvious that a certain amount of standardisation has occurred. I still think we like to be like Professor 'Iggins in My Fair Lady who was able to place people and their parent's various moves by accent. It must be some kind of life-skill in Ireland.

My mother used to tell me as a child in Wexford to 'mind my INGs' . I was quite happy to do so but had no idea where they were.
I guess there was no G to be heard at the end of a word there. Nothin'

RahenyFG II
04-03-2013, 05:46 PM
Although I'm pretty safe from that over here on the northside :)

Well went to school on the southside for 5 years back in the 2000s and got out just before this mid Atlantic accent really took over. Safe now working and living on the northside.

Dojo
04-03-2013, 08:36 PM
When you say rindabites it comes out sounding like a Donegal accent :D

Whilst in Cavan last weekend, I heard the local drawl.....CCCCaaaaavvvaaaaaaaannnnn!

Meanwhile info on South Wexford English..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language#Modern_South_Wexford_English

It's pronounced "Keee-yaaa-vin". As someone who frequents the good county on a regular basis their peculiar accent is something that sticks in the mind like flies to *****. :o

Also "Kee-yar" = Car :)

Count Bobulescu
04-03-2013, 09:09 PM
Those who believe Dortspeak is a recent phenom are mistaken. I first recall encountering it, as in “doddy is hoving a porty” in the late seventies. It was most pronounced in teenage girls, but by the early eighties I knew a couple of thirty something males who were accomplished practitioners. So it’s been around awhile. I believe it was an offshoot of the California cultural meme of Valley Girls. There was an 1983 movie of that name, and an earlier TV series.



Valley girl is a stereotype depicting a socio-economic and ethnic class of white women characterized by the colloquial California English dialect Valleyspeak and vapid materialism. The term originally referred to an ever increasing swell of semi-affluent and affluent middle-class and upper-middle class girls living in the early 1980s Los Angeles bedroom communities of San Fernando Valley.[1]
In time the traits and behaviors spread across the United States and abroad, metamorphosizing into a caricature of unapologetically spoiled "ditzes"[1] and "airheads" more interested in shopping, personal appearance and social status than intellectual development or personal accomplishment.[2]

The first Valley Girl in popular culture is attributed to Lily Tomlin's character, Susie Sorority, on The Lily Tomlin Special in 1975.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086525/

Baron von Biffo
05-03-2013, 03:37 PM
And then there's mechanic-speak. In the garage earlier I heard "Fifteen me hoop it's a fnukcin twelve." :)

C. Flower
05-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Those who believe Dortspeak is a recent phenom are mistaken. I first recall encountering it, as in “doddy is hoving a porty” in the late seventies. It was most pronounced in teenage girls, but by the early eighties I knew a couple of thirty something males who were accomplished practitioners. So it’s been around awhile. I believe it was an offshoot of the California cultural meme of Valley Girls. There was an 1983 movie of that name, and an earlier TV series.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086525/

Female as consumer ? It sounds as though it was parallel with the arrival of shopping as a way of life.

Count Bobulescu
02-04-2013, 06:44 PM
Dortspeakers, rejoice! You are not alone in this universe.

The Strange Decline of the Philly Accent
Linguists are still trying to understand the surprising evolution of how Philadelphians speak. Full article »

Sometime around the 1960s and '70s, people in Philadelphia began slowly, subtly to change how they speak. The sound of their vowels started a gradual shift consciously imperceptible to the very people who were driving it. A's evolved to bump into E's. The sound of an O lost some of its singsong twang. After decades of speaking with what was in effect a southern dialect, Philadelphians were becoming – linguistically, that is – more northern.
"There's one big question: How is it possible that Philadelphians all over the city are doing the same thing?" asks Bill Labov, a professor in the department of linguistics at the University of Pennsylvania. "What is it that makes Philadelphia operate as a whole, making it different from the neighboring cities?"

We often talk about regional dialects as if they were disappearing in the face of national TV. But, in fact, while classic southern patterns of speech have been receding in large urban centers in the south, northern dialects have continued to grow stronger. And these trends are best observed in large cities, or, more specifically, in neighborhoods like South Philadelphia where densely clustered row houses can mean that language change moves as quickly between neighbors as gossip.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/04/strange-decline-philly-accent/5135/

PaddyJoe
27-05-2014, 05:55 PM
There's such a thing as being too Scottish.


Actor Brian Cox has launched a scathing attack on the BBC for its policy on regional broadcasting after he was asked to re-record his accent for its crime series Shetland.


"This was not an artistic decision; it was a BBC decision to please a certain audience. I was extremely affected by it, it bothered me a lot, because I didn't think it was fair on those who have that accent or other regional accents who pay their licence fee."That shouldn't have happened in a BBC Scotland drama. I pointed out that they didn't dub the Scandinavian crime drama The Bridge, they had subtitles, so why couldn't they subtitle Shetland?"
Speaking to an audience at a debate in Glasgow, Cox said: "The BBC is feudal. People come up to Scotland to better their careers here. There's a BBC mentality based on careerism, where certain things are not being decided until after the Referendum, because politics permeate everything."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/cox-attacks-feudal-bbc-on-accents.24309969

morticia
27-05-2014, 06:56 PM
Well went to school on the southside for 5 years back in the 2000s and got out just before this mid Atlantic accent really took over. Safe now working and living on the northside.

Seeking asylum, huh? Yer not safe, a friend's Swords teen is sounding ....well, the sentences are all ending in upward inflections.

yi25
27-05-2014, 09:57 PM
Have to say I have a thick Cork accent, working abroad for years has never diluted it. I worked with another Corkman last year and whenever we got spakin' the Norwegians asked us what language we spoke, one Englis guy suggested we were speaking Gaelic. Alex Fergusen used joke that he only needed a translater when Keane and Irwin were chatting.

Accents do not identify your class,they identify your locality,changing it to suit the social climate of the day, shows you have no class.

fluffybiscuits
29-05-2014, 09:39 PM
Have to say I have a thick Cork accent, working abroad for years has never diluted it. I worked with another Corkman last year and whenever we got spakin' the Norwegians asked us what language we spoke, one Englis guy suggested we were speaking Gaelic. Alex Fergusen used joke that he only needed a translater when Keane and Irwin were chatting.

Accents do not identify your class,they identify your locality,changing it to suit the social climate of the day, shows you have no class.

The Cork accent is extremely easy on the ear, I have a soft spot for it wit the Scottish accent...both are cute as **** !

Over the years having been raised in Dublin and Meath I never quite acquired a culchie accent but I do have a Dublin accent :) A good friend of mine has Welsh parents and was raised in Wicklow for twenty odd years but speaks with a Welsh accent but his brother is Wicklow through and through! I'd never dream of changing my accent to suit someone , an accent is a very personal thing for a person.

So y125 feel free to record anything in a Cork accent and upload it ;)

PS Michael Fassbenders accent - that twinge of German with the Kerry accent!!

Count Bobulescu
01-06-2014, 07:41 PM
There are two distinct speech patterns, as opposed to accents, in the US (though not confined to the US, Oz too) that are identifiable mostly in women, particularly younger ones. The Valley Girl Lift, (aka High Rising Terminal), of raising the voice pitch at the end of sentences, (considered overly feminine), and Vocal Fry (considered overly masculine), which is harder to describe. I detest both, particularly Vocal Fry. Then I read that a study found that Vocal Fry was having a negative effect on women's careers, and that it wasn't just me, older men in general detest Vocal Fry. I rejoiced because I think that means I still have sex appeal, and maybe am not a lesbian after all.

Here's an NYT piece on Lift or Uptalk from 1993.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/15/magazine/on-language-like-uptalk.html

Jill Abramson (no longer young) the recently fired editor of the NYT is considered to be Exhibit #1 for Vocal Fry.


The first thing that people usually notice about Jill Abramson is her voice. The equivalent of a nasal car honk, it’s an odd combination of upper- and working-class. Inside the newsroom, her schoolteacherlike way of elongating words and drawing out the last word of each sentence is a subject of endless conversation and expert mimicry. When she appeared on television after her appointment as executive editor, the blogger Ben Trawick-Smith wrote, “Speech pathologists and phoneticians, knock yourself out: what’s going on with Abramson’s speech?” He was deluged with responses. One speculated that, like a politician, she had trained herself to limit the space between sentences so that it would be hard to interrupt her; another said she had probably acquired the accent in an attempt to not sound too New York while she was an undergraduate at Harvard. The writer Amy Wilentz, a college roommate of Abramson’s, has said that the accent probably has something to do with trying to sound a bit like Bob Dylan.

You can hear a good example in her interview here.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3504

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/01/07/vocal_fry_and_valley_girls_why_old_men_find_young_ women_s_voices_so_annoying.html