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C. Flower
20-01-2013, 08:33 PM
The exposure of Jimmy Saville's awful history of abuse, facilitated at every turn it seems by a blind eye by the BBC, by the police and by people running hospitals and child detention centres, has shaken the dust off other possible suppressed investigations.

Always as well to be wary of hysteria and witch hunts in these situations, but the report in the Mirror yesterday, on a paedophile brothel being operated in the 1980s in London, with that caveat, seems to be serious.

There seems to be a lot in common with Kincora, as the victims were very vulnerable boys from detention centres and the alleged perpetrators wealthy and powerful people.



A list of names seized by police probing allegations of child abuse includes ministers, members of the royal household and a world-famous pop star, the Sunday People can reveal. All were recorded as visitors to a suburban guest house that operated as a gay brothel.

Nine officers raided the North London home of former child protection worker Mary Moss after she initially declined to co-operate with the investigation.Documents and a laptop were seized. Ms Moss later handed over a further 19 files she had hidden in a neighbour’s shed.
The papers include a list of men who went to sex parties in the 80s at the Elm Guest House, Barnes, South West London. Among the names are two former Conservative Cabinet ministers and four other senior Tories.There is also a Labour MP, a prominent Irish republican and a leading National Front member.

Others on the handwritten note are two members of the royal household – one a former Buckingham Palace employee – plus the owner of a multinational company and two pop stars....
Other documents seized are believed to identify 16 boys who were allegedly trafficked to the guest house from local care homes. Police have asked Richmond Council for a full list of children in care at the time.

Officers will also be examining copies of cash receipts and *the guest house’s visitor records. Operation Fernbridge is investigating claims that boys who were in council care were brought to the Elm to be sexually abused by bigwigs and VIPs.

...Twelve boys then told police they had been abused by men in the house but complaints were not pursued. The only prosecution in the wake of the raid resulted in Kasir being convicted of keeping a brothel. Campaigners believe she did not know of the child abuse until shortly before she reported it in 1988.

It appears a 2003 probe into activities at the Elm also fizzled out. Now Operation Fernbridge may be on the verge of bringing offenders to justice. It was triggered by a speech Tom Watson made in the House of Commons.
He told MPs there was “clear intelligence” of an abuse network of powerful men with influence at the highest level – in Parliament and even in Downing Street.

A lot of it was gathered in the 1992 investigation into paedophile Peter Righton.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-seize-vip-list-in-dawn-1546351

toxic avenger
20-01-2013, 08:37 PM
The problem is that, if such a list exists, they might just be gay people who went somewhere for an outlet for their homosexuality (at a time when homosexual people were disgracefully treated and pushed into hiding), rather than anyone involved in a paedophile ring.

I really don't like where this whole Savile investigation is going - it smacks of a witch-hunt designed to over-compensate for the failures of the authorities in the Savile case. Jim Davidson, Max Clifford, and others have been arrested and named by police yet have nothing to do with paedophile rings. Not only that, they were arrested as publicly as possible, with the press tipped off in advance. This is entirely wrong to me. I feel that there is potentially a great abuse of due process taking place here and that the police should be ashamed of themselves.

C. Flower
20-01-2013, 09:06 PM
The problem is that, if such a list exists, they might just be gay people who went somewhere for an outlet for their homosexuality (at a time when homosexual people were disgracefully treated and pushed into hiding), rather than anyone involved in a paedophile ring.

I really don't like where this whole Savile investigation is going - it smacks of a witch-hunt designed to over-compensate for the failures of the authorities in the Savile case. Jim Davidson, Max Clifford, and others have been arrested and named by police yet have nothing to do with paedophile rings. Not only that, they were arrested as publicly as possible, with the press tipped off in advance. This is entirely wrong to me. I feel that there is potentially a great abuse of due process taking place here and that the police should be ashamed of themselves.

Yes, I agree with you about the "celebrity arrests" and over-compensation. The BBC has already got itself into serious trouble over that.

And sensationalist police leaks are sleazy and self serving.

However, from this article, it is alleged that young boys who were in care may have been coerced into this, and if true, that is not something that could be justified as an "outlet" for anyone.

It is too soon to know what substance of any there is in this, and it was because of the similarity to Kincora that I think it worth following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGrath

Andrew49
20-01-2013, 09:07 PM
Sexual abuse of male children by adult men is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.


Sexual abuse by women occurs but has not been well documented. Perhaps it is not surprising, therefore, that the child molester stereotype is applied more often to gay men than to lesbians

Source (http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html#note2)

Shaadi
20-01-2013, 09:35 PM
The blind eye that was turned to Jimmy Saville's behaviour would indicate that the facilitating of his behaviour could be just the tip of the iceberg. The UK is a very class ridden society where the connected may have been as untouchable there as the Clergy once were in Ireland.

Mick Tully
20-01-2013, 09:57 PM
The problem is that, if such a list exists, they might just be gay people who went somewhere for an outlet for their homosexuality (at a time when homosexual people were disgracefully treated and pushed into hiding), rather than anyone involved in a paedophile ring.

I really don't like where this whole Savile investigation is going - it smacks of a witch-hunt designed to over-compensate for the failures of the authorities in the Savile case. Jim Davidson, Max Clifford, and others have been arrested and named by police yet have nothing to do with paedophile rings. Not only that, they were arrested as publicly as possible, with the press tipped off in advance. This is entirely wrong to me. I feel that there is potentially a great abuse of due process taking place here and that the police should be ashamed of themselves.

What do you call homosexuals who molest kids, if not paedophile. Could you explain ?.

C. Flower
20-01-2013, 09:57 PM
The blind eye that was turned to Jimmy Saville's behaviour would indicate that the facilitating of his behaviour could be just the tip of the iceberg. The UK is a very class ridden society where the connected may have been as untouchable there as the Clergy once were in Ireland.

Yes, Savile was treated like a kind of pseudo-priest in the UK's secular society, with his weird clothes and heavy chains, lack of a partner, auro of fake goodness with control of charities and hob nobbing with the establishment.

toxic avenger
20-01-2013, 10:02 PM
What do you call homosexuals who molest kids, if not paedophile. Could you explain ?.

No, not what I meant. The report describes the place as a gay brothel. It might just be that some on the purported list were there for adult homosexual liaisons, nothing to do with children. I don't know, but given what has gone on with the McAlpine affair, I'm just loathe to jump to conclusions.

Shaadi
20-01-2013, 10:21 PM
Yes, Savile was treated like a kind of pseudo-priest in the UK's secular society, with his weird clothes and heavy chains, lack of a partner, auro of fake goodness with control of charities and hob nobbing with the establishment.:D Seriously though, all those smarmy sleazy attention/power crazy types have always given me the creeps, you can just smell the dodginess off them. I can think of a few modern celebs that fit the bill, with the iron grip they have on the papers it's unlikely that we'll ever find out if they are or not..

C. Flower
20-01-2013, 11:13 PM
No, not what I meant. The report describes the place as a gay brothel. It might just be that some on the purported list were there for adult homosexual liaisons, nothing to do with children. I don't know, but given what has gone on with the McAlpine affair, I'm just loathe to jump to conclusions.

Yes, I agree about being very careful. The "Savile" investigations covered a lot of people who had never even met Savile. Police are very media conscious and can spin and hype with the best when drunk with attention or looking for promotions.

Anthony Blunt's name is drawn in to this and to Kincora. He's dead, and low in rep due to spying, so the press can say anything with impunity.

If people were molested/injured in this, then their interests need to be served first and foremost. That means respect for their situation, and acknowledging what happened and dealing with it within the law, and without hysteria, imo.

bernadette
20-01-2013, 11:19 PM
From what I've seen I think Savile was part of a highly placed paedophile ring. Its hopeful that the police are at last beginning to deal with it. So many names have been mentioned but relatively few charges and no big names but it is getting really interesting now,

Ephilant
21-01-2013, 08:55 AM
From what I've seen I think Savile was part of a highly placed paedophile ring. Its hopeful that the police are at last beginning to deal with it. So many names have been mentioned but relatively few charges and no big names but it is getting really interesting now,

Not only a highly placed paedofile ring, but an international one at that. An investigation into the action of Mr. Dutroux in Belgium and the famous "Zandvoort" ring started throwing up names of a good few people in high places, with a lot more than circumstantial evidence. The investigation was stopped at the orders of high ranking officials in Belgium, and one of the whistle blowers was in fact jailed and only released recently, after public pressure.
That investigation reached as far as the UK, France, Germany, The Netherlands and the USA. It implicated high ranking police officers, politicians (even a prime minister), a good few aristocrats (living and otherwise), and government run organisations using the "ring" to gain "valuable information"...

Andrew49
21-01-2013, 10:01 AM
No, not what I meant. The report describes the place as a gay brothel. It might just be that some on the purported list were there for adult homosexual liaisons, nothing to do with children. I don't know, but given what has gone on with the McAlpine affair, I'm just loathe to jump to conclusions.

What do you know about the 'McAlpine affair' other than what you've read in the tame-stream media - there is more to that story than is published.

LINK (http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/category/mcalpine-paedophilia-mistaken-identity-not-innocence/)

bernadette
21-01-2013, 01:52 PM
Not only a highly placed paedofile ring, but an international one at that. An investigation into the action of Mr. Dutroux in Belgium and the famous "Zandvoort" ring started throwing up names of a good few people in high places, with a lot more than circumstantial evidence. The investigation was stopped at the orders of high ranking officials in Belgium, and one of the whistle blowers was in fact jailed and only released recently, after public pressure.
That investigation reached as far as the UK, France, Germany, The Netherlands and the USA. It implicated high ranking police officers, politicians (even a prime minister), a good few aristocrats (living and otherwise), and government run organisations using the "ring" to gain "valuable information"...

Yes I think that is the way of it, there was and may still be a huge and very powerful paedophile ring.

My hope is that most of the members are retired or dead and so the ring may no longer be as powerful and we will get the truth.

toxic avenger
21-01-2013, 02:07 PM
What do you know about the 'McAlpine affair' other than what you've read in the tame-stream media - there is more to that story than is published.

LINK (http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/category/mcalpine-paedophilia-mistaken-identity-not-innocence/)

I don't really get the point of your post - you link to a poorly-written page which repeats stuff that was widely reported at the time as if it were 'revelation'. I followed this story all along (including, by the way, warning, on the very afternoon before the Newsnight broadcast, on this very site, that the BBC were potentially destroying their reputation if, as I suspected, they were hastily over-compensating for Savile with a witch-hunt).

Did I know that Steve Messham was mistaken but clearly a genuine victim? Yes. (And, by the way, I think what you call the 'tamestream media' were actually pretty sympathetic towards his mistake, by and large).

Did I know that he possibly confused McAlpine with a relative? Yes.

Has any of that got any relevance whatsoever to the point I made? None at all.

C. Flower
21-01-2013, 02:44 PM
Yes I think that is the way of it, there was and may still be a huge and very powerful paedophile ring.

My hope is that most of the members are retired or dead and so the ring may no longer be as powerful and we will get the truth.

From what I've read, most abuse happens in families and teenage boys carry it out. Sometimes there can be a fear of extensive rings, but I doubt if that would ever account for more than a tiny proportion of what happens, because any extensive group is more likely to be uncovered. It seems that Saville did associate with other people who abused, but it is possible that he drew them into it.

Kincora was very political, and it seems was allowed in order to blackmail and/or spy on people.

The press report is sensationalist, but I think this worth keeping an eye of as things move on, to see if it does, or does not, have any similar characteristics to Kincora.

bernadette
21-01-2013, 02:53 PM
From what I've read, most abuse happens in families and teenage boys carry it out. Sometimes there can be a fear of extensive rings, but I doubt if that would ever account for more than a tiny proportion of what happens, because any extensive group is more likely to be uncovered. It seems that Saville did associate with other people who abused, but it is possible that he drew them into it.

Kincora was very political, and it seems was allowed in order to blackmail and/or spy on people.

The press report is sensationalist, but I think this worth keeping an eye of as things move on, to see if it does, or does not, have any similar characteristics to Kincora.

Not sure you're right about teenage boys I've seen no figures to support that and when I worked in a sphere that dealt with child abuse cases every case was an adult male abusing a relative usually a daughter. Of course those were incest cases there were and still are others.

Yes Kincora was very political but I'm wondering which came first the abuse or the spies. My instinct is Kincora was already active and when discovered instead of being immediately shut down and offenders prosecuted it was taken over but I would appreciate further information on that if its available.

Yes its vital to keep a close watch on anything that relates to the investigation. I think if the media, particularly the newly named 'social media' lose interest the investigation will simply fade away.

morticia
06-07-2014, 09:13 PM
RTE reporting Norman Tebbit as saying there probably was a paedo ring at Westminster and that during the 80's people would have reflexively hushed it up in order to protect the Establishment. Leon Brittan was the Home Sec at the time, and is currently under investigation for raping an 18year old in 1967. And of course, there was Cyril Smyth...
Tebbit now saying he realises the hush up was a mistake given the scale of abuse now being exposed.

'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go.....

I would predict that this lot are going to make the RC church look saintly by comparison. Especially if you add in the "legal" sex scandals...Profumo, Parkinson, Mellor, John Major and Edwina Currie, you name it. Back to basics, eh, lads?


"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

morticia
07-07-2014, 07:04 PM
Leon Britten denying all allegations....


"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

morticia
08-07-2014, 01:51 PM
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/07/04/the-paedofile-telegraph-twins-are-on-leon-brittans-case-bad-news-for-number-ten/

The Slog is suggesting (via the Telegraph) that a senior minister was stopped with child porn in the 1980s..hushed up.

Meanwhile, the Telegraph is alleging that upwards of 20 Establishment figures were preying on children's homes..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10953043/20-establishment-figures-in-elite-paedophile-ring.html

But never fear, Theresa May is on the job. Cough...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10951506/Theresa-May-launches-major-new-inquiry-into-child-sex-abuse-allegations.html

Frankie Lee
08-07-2014, 07:14 PM
ExaroNews @ExaroNews
Follow

[email protected]_1 tells @bbcnews 'there are false stories being put out in order to muddy the waters and discredit genuine allegations'
7:23 PM - 7 Jul 2014

https://twitter.com/ExaroNews

Possibly another McAlpine farce on the horizon too. Exaro have really been excellent on this and other issues in recent times and shows that there still is hope for good journalism.

DCon
12-07-2014, 08:42 PM
lovely, just lovely


MI5 were getting pictures of a judge, politicians, the Establishment of Northern Ireland going in and abusing these boys": Ken Livingstone

morticia
12-07-2014, 09:10 PM
And did M15 do anything with that knowledge? Silly question..


"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

DCon
12-07-2014, 10:11 PM
And did M15 do anything with that knowledge? Silly question..


"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Oh dear


“Anyone with any sense who was in trouble would come to the whips and tell them the truth, and say now, “I’m in a jam, can you help?” It might be debt, it might be a scandal involving small boys, or any kind of scandal which a member seemed likely to be mixed up in, they’d come and ask if we could help. And if we could, we did. We would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points. That sounds a pretty nasty reason but one of the reasons is, if we can get a chap out of trouble, he’ll do as we ask forever more.”

http://order-order.com/2014/07/08/watch-former-tory-whip-boasts-about-paedo-mp-cover-up/

Ephilant
13-07-2014, 08:51 AM
In 1999, 3 Belgian journalists (Annemie Bulte, Douglas De Coninck and Marie Jeanne Van Heeswijck) wrote a book called "X-Dossiers, what Belgium is not allowed to know about the Dutroux Case) (Uitgeverij Houtekiet, ISBN (10) 9052405360.) I'm not sure if the book was ever translated into any other language. The journalists used the court records of the Dutroux case to investigate the investigating police. The result was quite astonishing in exposing the indifference of the investigators to clues and testimonies available to them, as well as the numerous cover-ups of what were obvious "embarrasing" revelations involving high flyers in Belgian and international politics. In the book, no names are mentioned. Subsequent publications by others do mention names, involving indeed high flying past and current politicians, including a current EU commissioner, PMs, heads of civil service departments, etc. And not just in Belgium.
The "X-Dossiers" also mention MI5 and Kincora. And here it does mention names, including Stella Rimington, ex boss of MI5 and an MI5 agent called Stephen Daldry. It is alleged that MI5 not only knew about Kincora, but regularly used "the service". These allegations are also made in an article in Wake-up magazine, by a journalist called Jack Grantham. A similar allegation was made in another magazine "Scallywag" regarding a Kincora type operation in North Wales. In 2007/2008 MI5 was also linked to the goings on in the Haut De La Garenne children's home on Jersey.

bernadette
13-07-2014, 10:32 AM
It seems to me that all it takes or took is for one paedophile to worm his/her way into a position of authority, they were then able to employ or promote like minded people into similar positions, and it appears to have happened in several EU countries if not all of them.

When the Dutroux case surfaced, he had been abusing and providing victims for years, there were huge demonstrations in Belgium but no real change, in fact his partner was released early from her holiday camp, its true there were some rumblings but as far as I know that's all there were.

I think all historical child sex abuse allegations should be included in the investigations including Kincora. One thing has to be said about paedophiles: they don't allow politics or terrorism to get in the way.

morticia
13-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Perhaps our politicians will turn out to be relatively clean as most of the paedos joined the church. That won't have been true in the more secular Protestant nations though...meanwhile, talking of the Church, Pope Francis was apparently informed that 1/50 of his prelates has that tendency. I wonder if the Tories have that stat worked out yet? Or M15. Anyone know what the general population proportion is estimated at? Must be quite high given the 1/4 figure for those who have suffered abuse at one stage or another...


"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Andrew49
15-07-2014, 09:25 AM
The story is getting murkier:

A former weekly editor has claimed his newspaper’s office was raided by Special Branch in the 1980s after it began working on a story about politicians involved with a paedophile group. Don Hale was editor of the Bury Messenger in the early 1980s when he was handed a dossier on political figures who allegedly supported the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE). Hold The Front Page (http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2014/news/newspaper-raided-by-special-branch-over-paedophile-story/)

Seems from the story that not even Barbara Castle could stand up to these 'formidable foes'!

Frankie Lee
27-07-2014, 07:10 PM
How long more until something happens here:
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5330/audio-file-set-to-blow-lid-off-paedophile-scandal-at-westminster

morticia
28-07-2014, 09:00 AM
Something had better happen, or I for one will be completely disgusted. However, I suspect the ability of Westminster to hush stuff up far exceeds that of the Catholic Church, so it may never happen.

Frankie Lee
28-07-2014, 05:30 PM
Something had better happen, or I for one will be completely disgusted. However, I suspect the ability of Westminster to hush stuff up far exceeds that of the Catholic Church, so it may never happen.

Unfortunately it is 16 years ago since Nick Davies and The Guardian was screaming about all this.

http://www.nickdavies.net/1998/04/01/the-sheer-scale-of-child-sexual-abuse-in-britain/

morticia
28-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Excellent article, Frankie, thanks. Off to bang ye head against a brick wall.

DCon
07-10-2014, 07:01 PM
on the Beeb this eve


Did MI5 cover up sex abuse at Kincora boys’ home in Belfast? We uncover explosive new evidence. Tonight on BBC One NI

C. Flower
07-10-2014, 07:18 PM
on the Beeb this eve

Are they saying what time ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/categories/northern-ireland/highlights

DCon
18-10-2014, 04:16 PM
More cover up?



At least 1,400 girls as young as 11 were groomed and abused by gangs in the town over a 16 year period and new victims continue to come forward.
The committee, in its second inquiry into Rotherham, said there was “compelling evidence” that the town’s council and South Yorkshire Police ignored “numerous, credible warnings about the scale of child sexual exploitation”.
And it raised suspicions that officials colluded to conceal evidence which could have uncovered the scandal years before it came to light.
The MPs heard private evidence from a former researcher who was hired by Rotherham Council to find ways of catching men who tried to lure girls and vulnerable young women into prostitution.





She referred in a report, which was about to be sent to the Home Office, to the “alleged indifference towards, and ignorance of, child sexual exploitation on the part of senior managers”, the committee said.
“The researcher told us that an unknown individual subsequently gained access to her office and removed all of the data relating to the Home Office work.
“There were no signs of a forced entry and the action involved moving through key-coded and locked security doors. “She was also subjected to personal hostility at the hands of Council officials and police officers,” the committee said.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/missing-rotherham-abuse-scandal-files-fuel-public-suspicion-of-a-deliberate-coverup-9802307.html

Frankie Lee
14-12-2014, 11:52 PM
More good journalism from Exaro (http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5429/protected-paedophile-mps-and-prominent-people-say-police), details from private police online forum discussing cover ups and how they were prevented from investigating.

morticia
15-12-2014, 10:46 AM
Holy Lord, that's alleging Cabinet, royalty etc were involved. Horribly credible

bernadette
17-12-2014, 04:07 PM
Holy Lord, that's alleging Cabinet, royalty etc were involved. Horribly credible

Well yes it would be the entire RCC and various politicians here did exactly the same. I believe Albert Reynolds or possibly Gerry Adams were equally dismissive of victims.

One thing I've learned is that if it happened in one country it happened in most.

morticia
19-12-2014, 01:11 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/18/london-police-vip-child-sex-abuse-murder?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

The Metropolitan police have come out and said, rather forthrightly, that they believe "Nick", the now middle aged man who is alleging 3 child murders by an influential establishment paedophile ring. No doubt this is to clear the air after the Exaro News scoop a few days ago(linked above by Frankie Lee).

Perhaps I am naive, but the somewhat forthright language used in the above Met press release might lead one to believe that they might finally DO something about this.

DCon
21-12-2014, 01:39 PM
Only 6 current politicians


Three MPs and three members of the House of Lords have been named in a dossier handed to police concerning investigations into the alleged Westminster paedophile ring.

The dossier, which has been compiled by Labour MP John Mann, contains a total list of 22 high-profile figures deemed “worthy of investigation,” following the detailed examination of hundreds of pieces of evidence presented to him by members of the public, The Sunday Times reports.

Mr Mann told the newspaper the dossier names 12 former ministers, several of whom he believes were “definitely child abusers” and at least two of which are alleged to have assaulted boys at the Dolphin Square “abuse parties”.



http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/child-abuse-inquiry-three-mps-and-three-peers-named-in-paedophile-dossier-handed-to-scotland-yard-30853617.html

Frankie Lee
21-12-2014, 02:03 PM
More on Exaro from ex police forum about cover ups and investigations being stopped.
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5434/police-discuss-submitting-statements-on-paedophile-cover-up

They are to compile formal statements and give them to the authorities and the inquiry into child abuse.

morticia
02-01-2015, 02:09 PM
'Ere we go, as a previous Exaro related post predicted re royals being fingered, Prince Andrew allegedly involved in underage sex slave scandal.

Prince Andrew named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit over claims of 'forced sexual relations'

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/prince-andrew-named-in-underage-sex-slave-lawsuit-over-claims-of-forced-sexual-relations-30877628.html

Frankie Lee
02-01-2015, 02:28 PM
Nothing really new there
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/04/article-2597308-1CD41DB800000578-930_634x584.jpg

That was him with her at 17 when she claims she worked for Epstein as an erotic masseuse. Disgusting individual but I still thin more questions need to be asked of the king in waiting about his very close friendship with paedophiles like Jimmy Savile.

edit: That is him with another one of Epstein's victims. The woman in court now has chosen to stay anonymous.

Donal Og
02-01-2015, 07:42 PM
Amazing how they can sit on this stuff for so long. Both Johnny Rotten and Gerry Sadowicz named Savile as a 'very seedy man' and a paedo more than 30 years ago. Simon Dee - who was like the Tubridy of his time in England complained about him to the BBC. Dee got fired, Savile didn't. Dee's actual words were 'he's too fond of the kids' according to Tony Blackburn. Old Gerry - doesn't get much tv work now does he? Funny as f&ck too.

DCon
17-01-2015, 10:13 PM
David Cameron advisor who starred on Dragon's Den arrested on suspicion of raping 13-year-old girl

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/doug-richard-david-cameron-advisor-4997986

morticia
21-01-2015, 12:50 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11359459/Secret-government-file-on-unnatural-sexual-behaviour-at-Westminster-unearthed.html

Torygraph publishing evidence of a secret file, possibly seen by Maggie. Allegations dating back 30+ years

To be offered to the enquiry, apparently.

pluralist
22-02-2015, 01:29 AM
I have always thought a lot was covered up or regarding the Jersey/Haut de la Garenne abuse scandal, this blogger explains why:

http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.ie/2010/12/operation-rectanglecase-closed.html


Meanwhile, some recent developments re Kincora:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/victim-welcomes-kincora-ruling-30998031.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/kincora-victim-richard-kerr-in-explosive-new-claims-as-he-returns-to-horror-house-30-years-on-31007009.html

The claims by survivor Richard Kerr seem to lend credence to the allegations about Elm Guest Home in Richmond, London, being a key location used by a 'VIP' peadophile network.

pluralist
04-03-2015, 09:15 PM
We have lift-off.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5510/police-raid-harvey-proctor-s-home-under-operation-midland

pluralist
05-03-2015, 08:54 PM
Harvey Proctor's press conference earlier.

http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2015-03-05/ex-tory-mps-home-searched-in-child-sex-investigation/

Sidewinder
07-03-2015, 10:08 AM
One of the more bizarre aspects of the Elm House thing are these allegations that one of the regulars at the paedo parties was a "Gary Walker" of "Sinn Fien" (sic), and that this "Gary Walker" (apparently a pseudonym, nobody by that name has ever been prominent in any of the multiple incarnations of any SF or any of the IRAs) tipped off the owners before the raid happened.

Now why would a supposed republican be attending paedo orgies with Tory government ministers in 1982? And which SF - there were two at the time after all?

There's a fair amount of wild-eyed speculation on t'interwoogie but it's impossible to say if the person ever even existed, and if they did what sort of connection to which SF they might have had. Apparently any mention of "Gary Walker" is always traced back to one Chris Fay, and there is some doubt as to just how reliable Fay's claims are.

Anyone know any more about this?

pluralist
07-03-2015, 01:00 PM
From Twitter


Tom Parmenter ‏@TomSkyNews 4 hrs4 hours ago England, United Kingdom

Deputy PM @nick_clegg wouldn't answer a question on the secret Cabinet Office abuse files when asked by @skynews this morning
0 replies . 42 retweets 17 favourites

pluralist
07-03-2015, 01:06 PM
Politics More: Westminster Child Abuse Investigation
Leon Brittan and the Westminster child abuse scandal: 'his fingerprints were over everything'

Tomas Hirst

Mar. 6, 2015, 5:31 PM
367


Read more: http://uk.businessinsider.com/westminster-child-abuse-scandal-and-leon-brittan-2015-3?r=US#ixzz3Ti0EFW6Z

pluralist
07-03-2015, 01:59 PM
Family Demands Names Of New Child Abuse Files

The Cabinet Office's refusal to give details of four new child abuse files has angered many, not least the family of Martin Allen.

http://news.sky.com/story/1440318/family-demands-names-of-new-child-abuse-files

Trow
07-03-2015, 02:04 PM
It's not just the child abuse that is being covered up. If you were to dig deep enough you could link this ''elite'' to satanic ritual/practice as defined by the RC and other Christian churches.

pluralist
07-03-2015, 02:37 PM
It's not just the child abuse that is being covered up. If you were to dig deep enough you could link this ''elite'' to satanic ritual/practice as defined by the RC and other Christian churches.

The Kincora scandal in particular features some rather odd connections. Read the interesting posts from "dpack" here:

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/extract-from-the-trigger-man/

Trow
07-03-2015, 03:16 PM
It's not just the child abuse that is being covered up. If you were to dig deep enough you could link this ''elite'' to satanic ritual/practice as defined by the RC and other Christian churches.


The Kincora scandal in particular features some rather odd connections. Read the interesting posts from "dpack" here:

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/extract-from-the-trigger-man/

Join the dots.
Note Mc Grath's connection to British Israelism and British Israelism's quest for the arc of the covenant in Ireland..
Quote..During the turn of the 20th century British Israelites carried out some excavations of the Hill of Tara in Ireland looking for the Ark of the Covenant—the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland campaigned successfully to have them stopped before they destroyed the hill. unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Ireland

What's the connection between the lost tribe of Israel and the Celts? More so, Christianity persuaded the Celts/Druids to abandon their practices and considered them Satanic.

I can tell you personally that interaction with the demons associated with Druid practice can cause a backlash if you don't have the knowledge to control them. Earth wars/conflict ensue. Aswell as your own personal demise or ruin. If you possess that knowledge and can direct it towards your enemies then you have an ''elite.''

Another backlash when coming into contact with these entities after initiation ritual, exposure to persons/places affected or by curse, is the vile sexual and or criminal behaviour that can take over a person as in demonic possession especially when alcohol is consumed @ quarter days.

http://www.seekgod.ca/identity.htm

pluralist
07-03-2015, 07:52 PM
Tom Watson: Leon Brittan child rape investigation must continue despite his death


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tom-watson-leon-brittan-child-5038130

pluralist
07-03-2015, 08:40 PM
Join the dots.
Note Mc Grath's connection to British Israelism and British Israelism's quest for the arc of the covenant in Ireland..
Quote..During the turn of the 20th century British Israelites carried out some excavations of the Hill of Tara in Ireland looking for the Ark of the Covenant—the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland campaigned successfully to have them stopped before they destroyed the hill. unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Ireland

What's the connection between the lost tribe of Israel and the Celts? More so, Christianity persuaded the Celts/Druids to abandon their practices and considered them Satanic.

I can tell you personally that interaction with the demons associated with Druid practice can cause a backlash if you don't have the knowledge to control them. Earth wars/conflict ensue. Aswell as your own personal demise or ruin. If you possess that knowledge and can direct it towards your enemies then you have an ''elite.''

Another backlash when coming into contact with these entities after initiation ritual, exposure to persons/places affected or by curse, is the vile sexual and or criminal behaviour that can take over a person as in demonic possession especially when alcohol is consumed @ quarter days.

http://www.seekgod.ca/identity.htm

This stuff is a bit esoteric for me but I will mention in passing that Martin Allen disappeared on Guy Fawkes' night. Not sure what to make of that or whether its significant.

https://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/martin-allen-missing-since-5th-november-1979/

DCon
07-03-2015, 08:59 PM
Tomorrow's Mail

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_hrUmBWcAAtfrW.png

pluralist
07-03-2015, 09:06 PM
^ Fair play to the Mail, that's a scoop

pluralist
07-03-2015, 10:59 PM
Convicted by the police canteen culture
Matthew Parris


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4375221.ece


From Twitter:


John Mann MP ‏@JohnMannMP 4m4 minutes ago

I challenge the failed Tory MP and pathetic excuse of a journalist Matthew Parris to a debate on child abuse in Britain
0 replies . 12 retweets 12 favourites

Trow
07-03-2015, 11:26 PM
This stuff is a bit esoteric for me but I will mention in passing that Martin Allen disappeared on Guy Fawkes' night. Not sure what to make of that or whether its significant.

https://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/martin-allen-missing-since-5th-november-1979/

I'm just words on a screen, you'd have to be shown a demon in the flesh [manifested] before you'd start to believe, never mind understand it all. The initial acts of some demons working through humans first occur @ quarter days, once they have control it can be an everyday thing.

pluralist
07-03-2015, 11:35 PM
Latest from Exaro:

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5516/police-raid-leon-brittan-s-properties-in-london-and-yorkshire

pluralist
08-03-2015, 10:01 PM
Thatcher knew of politicians' sexual abuse but failed to act, says Labour MP
Simon Danczuk, who exposed Cyril Smith as a child abuser, says there is "no doubt about it."

Ruairi Casey
12:52 Sunday 8 March 2015

http://www.newstalk.com/Thatcher-knew-of-politicians-sexual-abuse-but-failed-to-act-says-Labour-MP

pluralist
10-03-2015, 03:38 PM
Sir Teddy: We heard the nasty rumours
Shock - Sir Teddy Taylor

First published 06:00 Tuesday 10 March 2015 in News
Last updated 10:34 Tuesday 10 March 2015

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/11843591.Ex_MP_recalls_Westminster_at_the_time_of_ paedophile_allegations/?ref=twtrec

pluralist
11-03-2015, 05:51 PM
Abuse in Lambeth, Operation Ore, and the Blair Minister(s) – Press Reports so far [Updated November 2014]

In amidst the reporting of the scandals involving Elm Guest House and the VIP ring alleged to have attended there, less has been widely known about a distinct series of events alleged to involve a senior Labour minister, or perhaps more than one. Here I present a wide range of articles dealing with two areas: organised child abuse in Lambeth, and Operation Ore, which identified numerous prominent people as involved in the purchase of images of child abuse – including a Blair cabinet minister. I first give the range of articles mostly from the 1980s and 1990s on Lambeth, leading to Operation Middleton, then those from the early 2000s on Operation Ore (including a significant piece from Counterpunch magazine) and one looking back on this, then finally a series of recent articles mostly from the Mirror from 2013 and this year by crime correspondent Tom Pettifor, which also suggest the involvement of a Blair cabinet minister in a ring operating in Lambeth homes. First of all it is important to note that all the ministers who have been identified by investigators may be entirely innocent, also that Operations Middleton and Ore might be dealing with entirely different alleged ministers (in which case there is the possibility of a whole three Blair cabinet ministers having been under suspicion for sexual offences involving children). But there may also be overlaps. I provide this material for reference purposes for others looking into these events.



https://ianpace.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/abuse-in-lambeth-operation-ore-and-the-blair-ministers-press-reports-so-far/

pluralist
11-03-2015, 11:34 PM
Was Man Murdered For Exposing Paedophile Ring?

Detectives urge victims to come forward following allegations women and children were raped at council property in the 1990s.

08:20, UK, Wednesday 11 March 2015
01:06/03:38


http://news.sky.com/story/1442551/was-man-murdered-for-exposing-paedophile-ring

pluralist
12-03-2015, 04:52 PM
Rod Richards, the former minister for Wales in John Major's government, has left some interesting comments at the end of this blog post.

https://paddyfrench1.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/the-macur-review/

Richards previously spoke out in 2012:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224167/Former-Minister-says-Thatcher-aide-paedophile-preyed-boys-home--Hague-known.html

morticia
12-03-2015, 07:21 PM
This just keeps on getting worse and worse. The only crumbs of comfort I can draw from this is that the scandals mostly concern the Tories....who I would really like to see losing the forthcoming election. But it just seems rife, and much more organised even than the bad eggs in the church here.
Many of the councils seem to have been up to no good, too.

pluralist
12-03-2015, 08:05 PM
The only crumbs of comfort I can draw from this is that the scandals mostly concern the Tories....who I would really like to see losing the forthcoming election.

Sorry but I really must take issue with this comment. I think it is a big mistake to view this as party political. Rod Richards was a Conservative, so was campaigning MP Geoffrey Dickens. The latter would have been considered on the right wing of the party on social issues and his views on homosexuality in particular look rather, well, old-fashioned, by today's standards. Campaigning MP Simon Danzcuk is Labour but considered to be on the right wing of his party. When he says it is with regret that he considers some of the 1980s scandals reflect very badly on Thatcher he is not being facetious, a political rival in Rochdale Labour once described him as a Thatcherite! I think it is very important not to make this a party political matter, much as many would, probably understandably, love to see the Eton branch of the Tories come a cropper.

Most of the London councils that turned a blind eye in the 1980s and 1990s were Labour controlled. There are not too many horror stories coming from areas that were under Tory-controlled councils.

morticia
12-03-2015, 08:12 PM
I'm not denying an anti Tory bias. But I would give Richards and Dickens full marks for trying to exhume the skeletons.

And you're right about the councils. The problem with admitting it's all party, though, allows one to worry that it's all pervasive.

Sidewinder
12-03-2015, 08:49 PM
The problem with admitting it's all party, though, allows one to worry that it's all pervasive.

But that's the horrible truth, unfortunately.

Just think about it (I think we're roughly the same age group) - back when we were kids there were always people, local auld fellas, teachers and so on that you were always warned from a very early age to stay away from and never let yourself be left alone with them. As kids we didn't understand the details but we always knew there were people you should avoid and not be left alone with, because unspecified "bad things" would happen. In hindsight it's obvious what people were hinting at.

I remember a senior teacher in my secondary school, after the ritual beatings in the first week of first year the older boys would then immediately warn the noobs to never let yourself be left alone with one in particular and also two others who were considered dodgy. The rumours about this man were rife for decades and in that time many many thousands of kids passed through what was a very big school in one of the bigger cities in Ireland. Probably every single family in the city had at least one member that had been to the school and knew this guy - pillar of the community, highly connected in the Church, friend of local politicos etc of course - was a predatory nonce.

Yet it was only when he retired that anyone spoke out, at which point in time-honoured Irish fashion everyone expressed shock and amazement at this "shocking revelation" that the entire city had known about for 40 years.

Everyone knew, everyone pretended they didn't, and it was rampant throughout society. Just like the industrial schools and magdalene laundries and thousands of girls fleeing to England every year for abortions - everyone knew, everyone pretended they didn't. And it seems it was rampant in many other societies too not just Ireland.

Humans are best kept at a distance really.

pluralist
12-03-2015, 09:04 PM
Yet it was only when he retired that anyone spoke out, at which point in time-honoured Irish fashion everyone expressed shock and amazement at this "shocking revelation" that the entire city had known about for 40 years.

The British equivalent or corollary to this seems to be more along the lines of (with Savile and similar) "well now that you mention it I did think he was a bit dodgy, but I never had any proof and even if I did, nothing would have happened what with him being protected by his connections". On the face of it perhaps more honest but ultimately self-exculpatory and end result is much the same.

morticia
12-03-2015, 09:06 PM
You're right, Sidey. Although I think as a girl in an all girls private secondary with few male teachers, I was perhaps more protected than most blokes of my age. I'm in my mid forties, btw.
Hate to say this, but it looks like some other societies may have been worse than here. I bear an open mind, but so far no ex Taoisigh, Tanaiste, Fin mins or Ministers for the Environment/Justice (rough equiv of UK home office) have been accused of paedo ring membership. Perhaps the church here acted as a collector of people of unconventional sexual taste, meaning fewer of them ended up wielding real, secular power.

Or alternatively, it may just be that no-one's outed our ex pols yet. [emoji33][emoji33][emoji33]

And re abortion, at least on that I can say I did my time on the X case protest marches....

Sidewinder
12-03-2015, 09:32 PM
Yeah I've heard some really really disturbing stories about Belgium, Australia, Phillipines and the US with most of the "great and good" pillars of society all involved in extremely dodgy/sick paedo/sex rings. It's not an Irish issue, it's worldwide :(

I have actually heard some very nasty rumours about some Irish politicians, media figures and clergy in the 70s...why do you think the industrial schools lasted so long? Very very grim stuff.

Currently I'm the Answer to life the universe and everything so yeah we're roughly the same age :)

pluralist
13-03-2015, 12:30 AM
It has been announced that Theresa May has refused numerous representations made to her government, including a direct approach from Peter Robinson to Cameron, to include Kincora/Northern Ireland in the forthcoming over-arching inquiry into institutional child abuse.

I have defended May before on Twitter as I believed she was sincere, but given this news I have no option but to consider her to be part of the coverups.

pluralist
15-03-2015, 12:48 AM
Claims in this write-up that the government will drip-feed the worst stuff to the media and public over a period of years in order to avoid scaring the horses:


Government control media over Westminster paedophile exposures!


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sl7hbb

...seem consistent with the tardiness in releasing files from the Home Office.

http://news.sky.com/story/1443825/abuse-files-whitehall-not-protecting-anyone

morticia
16-03-2015, 03:03 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/16/police-watchdog-investigate-claims-met-covered-up-child-abuse

Avalanche of merde continues. Allegations that MPs and high level police officers were members of a paedophile ring that may have murdered 3 children. The Met has been covering this up. Allegations that one officer investigating was moved off his perch pretty recently for getting too close to uncomfortable targets. And all in the Guardian....can't get much more mainstream.

ugh.

pluralist
16-03-2015, 04:44 PM
Metropolitan Police Statement: 16 Allegations Referred To IPCC

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/16/metropolitan-police-statement-16-allegations-referred/

C. Flower
16-03-2015, 05:11 PM
I don't know why I'm shocked by this. I'm prepared to believe these people will kill citizens with bombs and "paramilitary" thugs so why not child abuse and murder. But it is still bizarre.

Surely this is not what everyone being doing if it wasn't for fear of the law and lack of impunity ? Or is it to do with the way that as a class they are self-gratifying, abusive and exploitative, and that spreads over into all parts of their lives ?

morticia
16-03-2015, 06:13 PM
Because sexual behaviour is addictive, the effects of a small group of abusers can be very disproportionate to their numbers. Especially if they're organised and powerful, and no-one wants to believe the bad stuff because it would be very bad for their careers...

DCon
16-03-2015, 09:23 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAQHuO1WMAANVn9.jpg

pluralist
16-03-2015, 10:09 PM
Newsnight featured a report on Cyril Smith the Liberal MP. He was arrested but freed after Special Branch intervention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PEH-jVT4c

pluralist
16-03-2015, 10:23 PM
https://twitter.com/StuartSyvret/status/577546062082285569


Stuart Syvret @StuartSyvret
Follow

The hammer is dropping. Like it was always going to. You know who you are. All of you. Your turn to feel the fear. #CSAinquiry @ExaroNews
7:04 PM - 16 Mar 2015

pluralist
17-03-2015, 12:37 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/16/police-watchdog-investigate-claims-met-covered-up-child-abuse

Avalanche of merde continues. Allegations that MPs and high level police officers were members of a paedophile ring that may have murdered 3 children. The Met has been covering this up. Allegations that one officer investigating was moved off his perch pretty recently for getting too close to uncomfortable targets. And all in the Guardian....can't get much more mainstream.

ugh.

This blogger has carefully analysed the IPCC investigations with regard to what each aspect might refer to:

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/16/breakdown-of-ipcc-investigations

Donal Og
18-03-2015, 06:38 PM
Scary stuff alright. Older members will recall Simon Dee. He was the first dj to become a TV star really. Well, I started researching him after his death - I'm a sad old git who was hooked on pirate radio btw. Anyway one of the things that emerged was his complaint to the BBC that 'something must be done about Jimmy ( Savile), he's too fond of the kids'. Dee got the sack after a row about pay. He joined ITV but didn't last long there. Never worked again, hmmm. Makes you wonder. Poor old Dee, he was the 'model' for Austin Powers according to Liz Hurley. Trouble is you come across loads of loonies and Anti-Semites on these conspiracy blogs. But ...there is something very nasty lurking out there.

Trow
18-03-2015, 07:26 PM
Did Jill Dando get too close?
Quote.. The brutal murder of Jill Dando was linked to a VIP paedophile ring which was operating within the BBC and beyond.

The brutal murder of Jill Dando was ordered by the highest echelons of British society once it became clear that she had evidence of the ring and was about to expose it.

Jill Dando was shot at point-blank range in the head to silence her and also to serve as a warning to other journalists to keep their mouths shut.

We now know that child-rapist DJ Jimmy Savile had been abusing and procuring children at the BBC for decades and Jill Dando knew about Savile

Nobody said a word because of Savile’s links to the Royals and Government. Savile is known to have threatened to silence anyone who crossed him by using his contacts in the state run IRA and criminal underworld.But Jill Dando was not a lady to stand by and let innocent children be raped. Jill knew about Jimmy Savile and was not going to be silenced. unquote. http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html

I'm still suspicious that members of this ''kiddy fiddling ring'' may have delved with a form of the occult, like a hellfire club. Given the era of these revelations there were alot of satanic type movies around, the omen, nightmare on elm street, Amityville horror and was'nt there a vampire haunt around a cemetary in London? Yes... the Highgate vampire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highgate_Vampire While Prince Charles was spending evenings with the Ouija board. It was the ''in thing'' of the times. Although he denied it. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-21/news/8503120010_1_princess-diana-prince-charles-clothes

He did say however... He said the reports of his interest in spiritualism apparently arose because he had suggested to the vice chancellor of the University of Wales that parapsychology would be ``an interesting area to study.``

``I am not interested in the occult, black magic or any of those things,`` he said. ``I am only interested in being open-minded.``unquote.

There was a surge in that open mindedness into psychic and occult phenomena from 1970 into the 1980's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology

The alure to the occult in some cases is due to the power of the ''All Seeing Eye'' revealed to potential members during initiation/vetting ritual. It gives a 30 year advanced look into the lives of an individual. Basically, if you are forming a secret''ring'' you'd know who can be trusted. Or, if you were high profile and popular and someone wanted an eye kept on you by stealth or to psychologically control you, such knowledge of the occult gives you that edge. The down side to the target is a change in or uncontrolable sexual desire with an urge to engage in the forbidden. If you are a politician, a government, a secret security agency, a policeman etc, it's a valuable tool to have if you know how to use it. Though you'd want to keep it secret. And it is a Druids secret. Ask Churchill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Order_of_Druids

Christianity forbids it's use as a sin. [The fobidden fruit from the tree of knowledge]It's symbol can be found on dollar bills and MI5's badge. [the triangular one] Makes you wonder.

pluralist
18-03-2015, 09:39 PM
^ I'd suggest that elite British paedophile networks, if they indeed exist or existed, are adequately explainable by combination of such factors as abuse of power, undue deference to power and/or the lingering class system, and the unfortunate psychological effects, on some, of the British boarding school system, without resorting to nonsense about All Seeing Eyes and the like.

As for your claim that an interest in the occult had become 'fashionable' during the 1970s and 1980s, well, yes I suppose that's true up to a point, but so what? What of it? Was the poet Willam Butler Yeats and other members of the Celtic Revival movement also part of an elite child abuse network back in the early twentieth century, as some of them, too, had an interest in the occult?

Can the Roman Catholic elite abuses, facilitated by the Irish state over decades, be blamed on a few silly horror movies also? Unlikely, I'd suggest.

Mind you, I'm not going to entirely dismiss your claims. On the island of Ireland, there were two child murders with possible occult links in 1973. That's quite remarkable for one year and in an era when murder, let alone that of a child was extremely rare (leaving aside Troubles).

Speaking of Prince Charles:

http://po4ep.s3.amazonaws.com/1114/l/14152470.jpg

^ The man on the left of photo is Senator Wilfrid Krichefski, the first head of Channel Television, subsequently named as a paedophile in 2008 and more recently in the inquiry into child abuse being conducted in Jersey that is currently ongoing.
http://po4ep.s3.amazonaws.com/1114/l/14152470.jpg



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-jersey-30350191

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...-de-la-garenne (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/mar/14/haut-de-la-garenne)

935

^ Also from Jersey, Jimmy Savile preaching from pulpit of a church there in 1968.

Trow
18-03-2015, 10:39 PM
I'd suggest that elite British paedophile networks, if they indeed exist or existed, are adequately explainable by combination of such factors as abuse of power, undue deference to power and the unfortunate psychological effects, on some, of the British boarding school, without resorting to nonsense about All Seeing Eyes and the like.

As for your claim that an interest in the occult had become 'fashionable' during the 1970s and 1980s, well, yes I suppose that's true up to a point, but so what? What of it? Was the poet Willam Butler Yeats and other members of the Celtic Revival movement also part of elite abuse network back in the early twentieth century, as some of them, too, had an interest in the occult?

Can the Roman Catholic elite abuses, facilitated by the Irish state over decades, be blamed on a few silly horror movies also? Unlikely, I'd suggest.

Your quick to nonsense something you know absolutely nothing about. The revivalists were largely want to be druids waltzing about in robes with staffs and were in no way adept for the job. Many Priests are the same.

Of the few words Caesar wrote of the Druids, he described them as barbaric and how they could stay a battle by simply arriving on the battle ground, plunging a sword into one of the warriors and determining the outcome by observing the man wriggling in agony on the ground.

What Caesar omits is the fact that Celts fought their battles along ley lines and at any battle they brought a stone infused with iron symbols which calibrated the stone to transmit a frequency, a humming when placed on the ley line. This stone was charged by an energy that comes onto Earth via electro magnetic flow. It passes through the Earth and outwards towards the Star Sirius, returning again from the North. Call it a triangular loop or trinity.

Because of the distance involved, this dictates that once activated your time frame is 30 years, no more no less.

The ritual at the stone involves the Druid placing his left hand on the stone while his selected warrior places his right hand on it. The circuit is completed by the Druid touching a black handled knife/sword on the warriors lower chest/solar plexus.. There's a surge of energy which forces the knife to thrust forward and the chosen person collapes in agony.

In the moments there after the adept Druid can see the selected warriors future. [psychic] Depending on that he would know wehter or not to call the battle off and fight another day.
I had the ritual performed on me with such a stone in the mid 1970's and have the scar and deformity of rib cage to this day.

With the revivalists, the often missing key was the knowledge to control the demons associated with the craft which, when they come into contact with humans can cause obscenities such as detailed.

Not every revivalist will have that knowledge, Caesar did'nt. I spoke earlier in the thread when we discussed the British Israelites attempt to dig into the hill of tara in search of the arc of the covenant. I'd suggest that they might have found one of the stones i speak of. When active, not every human can hear them. Those who can are adept enough to work them otherwise you'd end up a corpse if you attempted that ritual i've just explained.

With Roman Catholicism, i'd suggest the tendancy to paedophilia can be explained by the placing of many of their churches on ancient celtic/druidic sights therfor exposing themselves to the ley lines the demons haunt and thus falling victim to their activities of a sexual nature.

There are many types of Druids and orders with varying practices.Many harmless. Not all are adept enough to tap into or control the things i speak of so that might go some way to explain why William Butler Yates was'nt bogged up some youngsters backside. He was a Bard, not a tripple God/Goddess] or Arch Druid who are the elite priestly class with such knowledge and ability.

Donal Og
19-03-2015, 08:39 AM
You're right, Sidey. Although I think as a girl in an all girls private secondary with few male teachers, I was perhaps more protected than most blokes of my age. I'm in my mid forties, btw.
Hate to say this, but it looks like some other societies may have been worse than here. I bear an open mind, but so far no ex Taoisigh, Tanaiste, Fin mins or Ministers for the Environment/Justice (rough equiv of UK home office) have been accused of paedo ring membership. Perhaps the church here acted as a collector of people of unconventional sexual taste, meaning fewer of them ended up wielding real, secular power.

Or alternatively, it may just be that no-one's outed our ex pols yet. [emoji33][emoji33][emoji33]

And re abortion, at least on that I can say I did my time on the X case protest marches....
Ah yes...an old girlfriend of mine was at a convent in the UK for 11 years. The older girls warned all the newbies not to hang about in the showers if a certain nun was in the vicinity.

Trow
19-03-2015, 11:13 AM
Mind you, I'm not going to entirely dismiss your claims. On the island of Ireland, there were two child murders with possible occult links in 1973. That's quite remarkable for one year and in an era when murder, let alone that of a child was extremely rare (leaving aside Troubles).


You are very entitled to your own views Pluralist and i respect them.
I encountered members of Mc Graths Tara in the 1970's, young lads in their teens and they were not shy about masturbating and buggering in a fairy ring and in other places.

One in particular tried to lure me into that. It disturbed me for years. He was a high ranking member of the Orange Order [County Master or something] out to steal my innocence. A personal attack on a young Roman Catholic.
It was years before i confided in a policeman. The person was soon caught masturbating in a public toilet. He was taken to court and named and shamed in a well known Sunday newspaper.

On more than one occassion i had my head smashed by the same group with rocks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_%28Northern_Ireland%29

Trow
19-03-2015, 02:36 PM
935

^ Also from Jersey, Jimmy Savile preaching from pulpit of a church there in 1968.

Note the robe he is wearing in that thumbnail Plurarist. Not unlike a Druids for certain ritual practice. Though he was far from one.

Get a look at this...
Quote.. The perverted star wore a hooded robe and mask as he abused the terrifi ed victim in a candle-lit basement.

He also chanted “Hail Satan” in Latin as other paedophile devil worshippers joined in and assaulted the girl at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in Buckinghamshire. The attack, which happened in 1975, shines a sinister new light on the former DJ’s 54-year reign of terror.

The girl kept her torment hidden for nearly 20 years before finally opening up to therapist Valerie Sinason.

Dr Sinason told the Sunday Express she first spoke to the victim in 1992. “She had been a patient at Stoke Mandeville in 1975 when Savile was a regular visitor.

“She recalled being led into a room that was filled with candles on the lowest level of the hospital, somewhere that was not regularly used by staff. Several adults were there, including Jimmy Savile who, like the others, was wearing a robe and a mask.

“She was molested, raped and beaten and heard words that sounded like ‘Ave Satanas’, a Latin*ised version of ‘Hail Satan’, being chanted. There was no mention of any other child being there and she cannot remember how long the attack lasted but she was left extremely frightened and shaken.”

Savile was a volunteer porter and fundraiser at the hospital between 1965 and 1988 and had his own quarters there.

Five years after the hospital attack, he abused a second victim during another black mass ceremony held at a house in a wealthy London street.

“Along with other young women, the victim was shepherded to wait in another room before being brought back to find Savile in a master of ceremonies kind of role with a group wearing robes and masks. She too heard Latin chanting and instantly recognised satanist regalia.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370439/Jimmy-Savile-was-part-of-satanic-ring

Sickening accounts.

morticia
19-03-2015, 03:07 PM
Hate to say this, Trow (because I'd really prefer not to believe the above), but I think you may have a very valid point. I remember a few people going on about ley lines. There's a few places in the South of England that have a certain je ne said quoi (not in a bad way, IMO); Glastonbury Abbey and Stonehenge to name but two. There are many old places here too, but the energy is somehow much wilder. Perhaps that's just my perception because Southern England is very manicured, I don't know. Anglesea is more like here. or Ynys Mon, to give it its Welsh name.

Somehow the paedophile rings there seem to be older, deeper and nastier. I don't recall allegations here that the Church here deliberately tortured kids to death here during sex acts, although, there were plenty of orphans that died through beatings and neglect. Nor do I recall allegations that Church pervs were conducting abuse as part of satanic rituals. I also find it very scary that the rings there seemed to have tentacles in the corridors of secular power, and to have been the subject of very deliberate cover ups. Not that any of it is right, but it may lend a little credence to your theory that the Church accidentally tripped over stuff they didn't understand.

And the public schools with their fagging rituals have been part of upper class British existence for more than 300 years.

Can I just ask, re that 30 year Druid ritual, does it allow the Druid see the warrior's future for 30 years, or does it mean that person (or the Druid) has only 30 years left as a result of the ritual?

The only thing is, doesn't accidental demonic possession sort of give the pervs a let out?? Cant help thinking people like Savile were just plain evil. Full stop.

Trow
19-03-2015, 03:32 PM
Can I just ask, re that 30 year Druid ritual, does it allow the Druid see the warrior's future for 30 years, or does it mean that person (or the Druid) has only 30 years left as a result of the ritual?

Yes, the Druid sees the future of the warrior for 30 years in advance through Psychic Vision. If the person the ritual is being performed on was going to die within that 30 year span the Druid would forsee it. I'm over my 30 year ''remote viewing. All things came to pass. No harm comes to the Druid as a result. Though the one who performed it on me got a bit of a shock as her thumb was touching the metal rivet on her folding knife.

Can i point out that when performing the ritual, the surge of energy is like a bolt of electric right into your solar plexus. When performed on me the Druidess held the knife slightly high and it damaged my rib cage. Another girl who was with me that day ended up slightly stabbed as the surge is like a magnet pulling the knife into the person.

I had to be operated on to try and fix the deformity but did'nt go back to hospital after the exploratory operation. Bad enough having deformed ribs, i now had a scar right across my chest requiring over 100 stitches. :)

morticia
19-03-2015, 03:34 PM
Interesting, Trow, thanks!

Trow
19-03-2015, 03:52 PM
The only thing is, doesn't accidental demonic possession sort of give the pervs a let out?? Cant help thinking people like Savile were just plain evil. Full stop.

By ''let out'' do you mean an excuse? If so then no, not really. It can go some way to explain human behaviour but demonic possession does;nt always manifest in sexual perversion, it can kill through suicide, cause a life of wasting and a propensity to criminal behaviour.

One thing is, it will ruin a persons life one way or another and most people affected never actually know that they have been afflicted and probably would never accept such a thing can happen.

In all, i think at all times the onus is on the individual to at all times have a strong high moral standing. Good upbringing and dare i say an adherence to some christian religious values would help stave of the affects of demons but not always. They can change a person. Consulting a Priest, Druid or otherwise when such perverted notions ensue would remedy the problem. Honesty is the first line of defence.

Other factors in environment during upbringing can contribute to behaviour and we find many persons who engage in sordid sexual perversions have themselves been victims at some stage in their lives.

You spoke of ley lines in a post just above, i could walk you onto one and cause you temporarily to be possessed and there'd be notable change in your behaviour. Of course i would show you how to unhitch that demon before i'd let you take it home and start working on you proper. :)

morticia
19-03-2015, 04:02 PM
Does this work on most people, Trow, or are the psychically insensitive or morally strong protected in various ways? Do you think some can rid themselves of it? Or are naturally immune?

And presumably not all ley lines work the same way? Many of these sites of significance have very different feels and some are visited by loads of people every year?

Trow
19-03-2015, 04:33 PM
Does this work on most people, Trow, or are the psychically insensitive or morally strong protected in various ways? Do think some can rid themselves of it?

Certainly, alot depends on the individual. If i walked someone through the place they would'nt always see the demons in the flesh, although i could arrange that too. One thing is certain, if i did'nt show you or tell you how to cleanse yourself when leaving the place a number of mishaps would occur over time.

Conflict would occur within your household, accidents, ailments and in particular behaviour and mood change. Like a depression. Touch alcohol and it brings out the worst, you'd probably become an alcoholic soon after. And that's you trapped with loss of senses.

If you were a strong morally sound person the demon will stand off observing you for weaknesses and then act on you from within you. Once in, your in big trouble for it wont reveal itself as obviously there. You'd be tormented especially @ quarter days. You become weaker as time goes on and succumb to the demons control. That will last for 30 lunar years at the end of which, if you hav'nt killed yourself you'll be left with a life shortening disease. Different diseases for different demons.

And yes, most certainly an individual can will a demon out. Providing you know what you are dealing with. They don't like being outed. If you're strong enough it will go and you'll catch a glimpse of it as it exits. After that, it's keeping it out until that unwritten 30 lunar years has expired. You would'nt want to be Fathering or Mothering children when affected because they are born sickly and develop disease in their youth.

Alot to consider there Morticia.

pluralist
19-03-2015, 04:50 PM
The Westminster child abuse ‘coverup’: how much did MPs know?

Claims that the establishment covered up a paedophile ring at the heart of Westminster are finally being investigated, decades after rumours first surfaced. Michael White, who was a parliamentary reporter at the time, asks veteran politicians why no one wanted to believe the worst



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/17/westminster-child-abuse-paedophile-ring-failure

morticia
19-03-2015, 05:12 PM
Talking of nasty sex abuse/ murder cases, Trow, have you any thoughts on the Graham Dwyer/Elaine O'Hara case down South here? Seems to be elements of really weird stuff there as well (although thankfully no children involved).

morticia
19-03-2015, 05:19 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/17/westminster-child-abuse-paedophile-ring-failure

Ouch. Very interesting article. What I find depressing about the surfacing allegations though, is that they are largely being made against dead people. Still no desire to really rock any boats, I would conclude!!

Trow
19-03-2015, 05:59 PM
Ouch. Very interesting article. What I find depressing about the surfacing allegations though, is that they are largely being made against dead people. Still no desire to really rock any boats, I would conclude!!

Dead men don't talk.

Found this blog, wow, it's hard hitting, titled.. ''The satanic british royal family and power elite'' Lots of reading about Saville's links to the royals and pedophiles within royalty gets a good look at. Suggests that if the appropriate authorities were to knock at Buckingham Palace and persue matters the british royal family would collapse. Freemasonary and occult links get a mention too.
Here.. https://theflippintruth.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/the-satanic-british-royal-family-power-elite/

@ Morticia, i'll get a look into that.

Trow
19-03-2015, 07:15 PM
Talking of nasty sex abuse/ murder cases, Trow, have you any thoughts on the Graham Dwyer/Elaine O'Hara case down South here? Seems to be elements of really weird stuff there as well (although thankfully no children involved).

If i were to give an analysis from a spiritual/demonology perspective i would need to know a few things about the individuals involved such as...
Is Graham Dwyer a bastard child. Has he or Elaine O'Hara ever sought advice for marriage from Psychics. And of course, have either ever involved themselves in witchcraft or the occult. It opens the door for demonic spirit guides to enter..

In cases such as Sadomasochism and were spirits are involved they do not care if the experience is pleasurable for their hosts. They prefer that it causes pain and suffering.
Through that, the demon gets a kick out of the lust and horror it created. In addition, the poor hosts are driven to continue in what they actually hate and dread. Elaine O'Hara continued even when she sensed that. Graham Dwyer displays the trait of a man possessed by lust and sadism . Common characteristics of a bastard child under demonic control. Masochism is another, was Elaine afflicted in the same way?

pluralist
19-03-2015, 07:17 PM
^ I think it is unwise to discuss a case that is currently in front of the courts.

I'd also prefer, personally, if this thread was kept focussed on evidence/links (from reputable sources) regarding VIP peadophile networks and related cover-ups.

Trow
19-03-2015, 07:29 PM
^ I think it is unwise to discuss a case that is currently in front of the courts.

I'd also prefer, personally, if this thread was kept focussed on evidence/links (from reputable sources) regarding VIP peadophile networks and related cover-ups.

Your keen enough to allow the trial by media of persons unable to defend themselves or for evidence/testimony/news articles to be tested in a court.
And the association of the occult and sexual depravity is very well documented throughout history.

I'll yield anyway.

morticia
19-03-2015, 07:31 PM
I don't know anything about Graham Dwyer's parents, but they mentioned a sister in Tipperary, perhaps suggesting he's the product of a conventional relationship, but I don't know. No one's mentioned psychics so far but that doesn't mean anything. I know I've had cards read a few times (once accurately), and I had a teenage interest in horoscopes and palm reading. Nothing dark arts, though, AFAIK.

The royal family stuff was interesting. Some bits of it more credible than others. There were definitely rumours of hush ups around Prince Philip. I'd also keep an open mind on Diana's death. However, given Charles' secret predilections for a woman very much his own age ("I want to be your tampon"), yes, the one he's now been grudgingly allowed to marry, I really doubt if he's anything other than a poor judge of character. It wouldn't fit in with the whole organic holistic talking to the fruit and veg, organic sewage vibe either.

Mountbatten; apart from the dodgy stuff in the British museum, is there any other evidence of his proclivities? Even if so, I find it hard to believe anyone would be allowed to corrupt the heirs to the throne, the whole deal with the rings was that they had access to children they regarded as "expendable", those in care homes, hospitals etc. The children of the rich and powerful are much more "untouchable"....

Trow
19-03-2015, 07:41 PM
@ Morticia, it's all become a dark matter on history. To think that a social elite could organise themselves into these rings and act with impunity in modern times is a very frightening and sickening thing. Suffer little children.

What's more frightening and sickening is the thought that alot of this scum might just get away with it.

Seems to be plenty of media on the issue over the past few years just googling about. If that were you or me being outed like that how long would it be before you were lynched or dragged before a court.

Different kind of justice for the priveleged is'nt there?

morticia
19-03-2015, 07:55 PM
Yes, indeed, Trow, yes indeed. I live in hope that the cleanup visited on the Catholic Church over the last 20 years is about to hit the British Establishment, but I suspect the roots of evil there are deeper, darker and go back further. One of the secrecy promoting factors, too is the famous stiff upper lip; Irish people seem to me to be far more inclined to tell someone if something's wrong (usually after a few drinks), so usually rumours get around. Much less so there, more repression. Funnily enough, given the more liberal nature of laws such as those on abortion etc. Secrecy favours the dodgy being able to keep bad stuff under wraps, unfortunately. There's also a far more rigid social caste system, more ingrained respect for those deemed to be "above" you. Not something that pertains as much either here or in North America.

Trow
19-03-2015, 08:49 PM
I'm looking into this.....Ordo Templi Orientis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis Originally it was intended to be modelled after and associated with European Freemasonry. Similar to many secret societies, O.T.O. membership is based on an initiatory system with a series of degree ceremonies that use ritual drama to establish fraternal bonds and impart spiritual and philosophical teachings.

Look inside the ritual and practices.

Quote.. Sex Magic
The degrees of the Hermit Triad are of sexual nature. In the VIII° degree, the initiate is taught masturbation magical practices, in the IX° degree magical techniques related to vaginal intercourse, and in the XI° a form of sex magic involving **** intercourse.[arse burglary] Unquote.

Quote. Sex magic is any type of sexual activity used in magical, ritualistic or otherwise religious and spiritual pursuits. One practice of sex magic is using the energy of sexual arousal or orgasm with visualization of a desired result. A premise of sex magic is the concept that sexual energy is a potent force that can be harnessed to transcend one's normally perceived reality unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

One central character Aleister Crowley.... Quote.. Some biographers allege that here he was recruited into a British intelligence agency, further suggesting that he remained a spy throughout his life. unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

Sooner or later i'm going to link one of these modern day bum bandits to such secret societies. Surely a hiding place for the rapist social elite. I know what i'd be looking for when raiding their houses.

Sorry Pluralist....done with that kind of stuff for now.

DCon
19-03-2015, 09:43 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAfpW90XIAEbYEV.jpg

pluralist
19-03-2015, 09:53 PM
Sorry Pluralist....done with that kind of stuff for now.

Lol. No worries. :) You may have already seen it, but a lot of this stuff was discussed on a gargantuan thread on the David Icke forum that started after the Savile revelations hit the MSM and is still going to this day (though their forum seems to be down at present).

Trow
19-03-2015, 10:06 PM
Lol. No worries. :) You may have already seen it, but a lot of this stuff was discussed on a gargantuan thread on the David Icke forum that started after the Savile revelations hit the MSM and is still going to this day (though their forum seems to be down at present).

:) Happy days.
No doubt the Icke forum down time will spark a gargantuan illuminati hack conspiracy thread.

pluralist
19-03-2015, 10:10 PM
:) Happy days.
No doubt the Icke forum down time will spark a gargantuan illuminati hack conspiracy thread.

Doubtless. What is more likely to have happened is that they took the opportunity to combine doing an upgrade with deleting certain references from a book by Icke after Icke recently settled with Canadian lawyer Richard Warman who was suing him for libel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Warman#David_Icke

pluralist
19-03-2015, 11:32 PM
Tom Watson at PMQ's - Question re Official Secrets Act 18th March.

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/tom-watson-at-pmqs-18-march/

pluralist
19-03-2015, 11:33 PM
The Westminster child abuse ‘coverup’: how much did MPs know?

Claims that the establishment covered up a paedophile ring at the heart of Westminster are finally being investigated, decades after rumours first surfaced. Michael White, who was a parliamentary reporter at the time, asks veteran politicians why no one wanted to believe the worst


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/17/westminster-child-abuse-paedophile-ring-failure

C. Flower
20-03-2015, 04:47 AM
If i were to give an analysis from a spiritual/demonology perspective ..

Good heavens. I had no idea that marriage vows had such a protective effect on children.

Demons in my view are imagined beings that personify our fears. I don't think the very materially driven British upper class have too many fears.

But there is a failure to protect children from all kinds of abuse, not just abuse by the rich. We have seen that in Ireland with terrible cases of neglect and brutality having gone on for years without help for children who complained.

Encouraging children to speak up for themselves and listening when they do has helped to some degree - there is a programme in the national schools syllabus that is intended to encourage that.

Trow
20-03-2015, 01:01 PM
Good heavens. I had no idea that marriage vows had such a protective effect on children.

Demons in my view are imagined beings that personify our fears. I don't think the very materially driven British upper class have too many fears.

But there is a failure to protect children from all kinds of abuse, not just abuse by the rich. We have seen that in Ireland with terrible cases of neglect and brutality having gone on for years without help for children who complained.

Encouraging children to speak up for themselves and listening when they do has helped to some degree - there is a programme in the national schools syllabus that is intended to encourage that.

You'll find that teaching about children being born out of wedlock in Christianity, Roman Catholicism in particular. Said to affect ten generations thereafter until the ''curse'' on the bloodline is lifted.
Where demonic possession is at play, through lust and not genuine love the demon passes on through the child, it's how they place themselves amongst humans on Earth.

Sex is a powerful thing and demons love that opportunity to work through us. Sudden changes in libido is what you'll get were you to dabble in the occult. Why not check out your local Hellfire club. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club:) Persons in high society are known to have sought the experience. The urge to engage in the forbidden.

Seriously though, you don't see many smiling faces on the children who have been through care homes and the likes. They need proper love and care. All too often we only hear of their terrible stories when many are in adulthood and forever ruined emotionally. What affect that has on their own relationships can be troublesome i imagine having never known what a loving home is. How do you rebuild a person like that?

The demons i've encountered were'nt born out of fear, i accidentally encountered them and overcame all fears. [Eventually] :)

Donal Og
20-03-2015, 06:49 PM
Trow - the OTO were a German offshoot of the Golden Dawn weren't they? I know Crowley took over the UK group. Then some guy called Kenneth Grant. I had some friends who were 'neophytes' or whatever. Lots of 'banishing rituals' and Tarot. Can't remember the 'cosmology' in toto - this was in the 80s. My pals found it too elitist and one of them said 'sexist' in the end. Perhaps it is still staggering on?

Trow
20-03-2015, 08:14 PM
Trow - the OTO were a German offshoot of the Golden Dawn weren't they? I know Crowley took over the UK group. Then some guy called Kenneth Grant. I had some friends who were 'neophytes' or whatever. Lots of 'banishing rituals' and Tarot. Can't remember the 'cosmology' in toto - this was in the 80s. My pals found it too elitist and one of them said 'sexist' in the end. Perhaps it is still staggering on?

I would contend that there are many offshoots of these earlier occult groups today masquerading as gentlemen clubs, Hiding places for sordid affairs.

pluralist
21-03-2015, 12:28 AM
Trow - the OTO were a German offshoot of the Golden Dawn weren't they? I know Crowley took over the UK group. Then some guy called Kenneth Grant. I had some friends who were 'neophytes' or whatever. Lots of 'banishing rituals' and Tarot. Can't remember the 'cosmology' in toto - this was in the 80s. My pals found it too elitist and one of them said 'sexist' in the end. Perhaps it is still staggering on?

I still maintain this occult stuff is a bit of a sidetrack, but yes, Crowley took over the UK group after purging William Butler Yeats, who was also involved in it, from the organisation.

Crowley's theories were taken up by certain rock musicians from the 1960s on, including Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin (who had relationships with under-age groupies during the 1970s, though there is no suggestion that they were non-consensual).

Scorpio Murtlock, a character in the last novel in Anthony Powell's 'A Dance to the Music of Time' series ('Hearing Secret Harmonies') was based on cult leader Robert DeGrimston of Process Church infamy, and thought of himself as a successor to Crowley (also featured in the series, in the earlier novels, as the 'Doctor Trelawney' character).

I've thought myself that Murtlock also has some similarites to Jimmy Savile (although the age is wrong, as Murtlock would have been way too young to be Savile - Murtlock was depicted as a young man of 20 or in the later part of 'Hearing Secret Harmonies' set in the late seventies, whereas Savile at that time would have been in his forties or even early fifties).

Intriguingly, necrophilia (a perversion some say Savile was involved in, indeed it has been speculated that he sought jobs in hospital mortuaries in order to have access to dead bodies) is also featured in the latter 'A Dance to the Music of Time' novels.

The novel also features Canon Fenneau, nominally a Christian cleric but who was in reality heavily in involved or at least knowledgeable as regards the occult. Possibly loosely based on someone like British occult aristocrat Viscount Evan Tredegar, who was chamberlain to two popes (two possibly dodgy popes but still popes).

Some links, for the benefit of those interested in further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dance_to_the_Music_of_Time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Widmerpool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_Secret_Harmonies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Process_Church_of_The_Final_Judgment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_DeGrimston

and finally, much as one hates to give a rival forum hits, this is an interesting thread:

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/230696-black-magic-british-army-4.html

pluralist
21-03-2015, 02:44 AM
Anthony Blunt confessed to MI5 in 1964, why wasn't he prosecuted & why was he allowed to work for the Queen Mother?

Trow
21-03-2015, 03:22 PM
Anthony Blunt confessed to MI5 in 1964, why wasn't he prosecuted & why was he allowed to work for the Queen Mother?

He outed other spies when he confessed and a deal was done to keep matters under wraps. The Queen afterall can stay any prosecution at the stroke of a pen. Thatcher outed him eventually.
Interesting quote and link....
Quote. The Royal Family shielded Blunt for 15 years until he was exposed by Margaret Thatcher in 1979.

(EPHRAIM HARDCASTLE)

According to the source, Blunt told his colleagues he was the illegitimate child of King George V, by his mother, Hilda Blunt.

"It was long rumoured that the unusual resemblance between Blunt and Edward VIII was because they were half brothers." unquote.

Sickening recording at this link allegedly of Saville kiddy fiddling.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/jimmy-savile-rothschild-anthony-blunt.html

Trow
21-03-2015, 05:29 PM
Came across a word today [sexpionage] and wondered, given the cloak and dagger world of intelligence services, might this technique be at the heart of these abuse cover-ups for matters of ''National Security?''

From a book on the subject... Sexpionage: The exploitation of sex by Soviet intelligence
Quote.. One of England's leading investigative reporters relates the complete and hair-raising story of Soviet Russia's KGB in action: its swallows (trained female operatives) and ravens (trained male prostitutes, sometimes homosexual); the degrading training course, designed to strip pupils of every sexual inhibition; unquote. http://www.amazon.com/Sexpionage-The-exploitation-Soviet-intelligence/dp/0151813809

Articles i've read on this thread say Russia was flagging up the activities of Cyril Smith and others at the time he was an active kiddy fiddler.
Besides....Quote.. In the early 1960s British news media were dominated by several high-profile spying stories: the breaking of the Portland spy ring in 1961, the capture and sentencing of George Blake in the same year and, in 1962, the case of the Admiralty clerk, John Vassall, blackmailed into spying by the Soviets who threatened to expose his homosexuality unquote.

Take ''The Profumo affair'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair Sex, sex and more sex. Enough to bring Governments down?

Donal Og
21-03-2015, 05:59 PM
Well, I'm not sure it's so useful to the spooks anymore. I mean nobody cares who is gay now. But child abuse is a different matter. Btw I'm fairly certain Yeats purged Crowley from the Golden Dawn, not vice versa. Crowley's family were strict Christians , Plymouth Brethren, ironically enough. Perhaps this decadence and evil for its own sake is some kind of reaction to the repressions of previous times. But I'm no shrink....just as likely a bunch of sick sadists liked dressing up to further terrify their victims.

Trow
21-03-2015, 06:09 PM
Well, I'm not sure it's so useful to the spooks anymore. I mean nobody cares who is gay now. But child abuse is a different matter.

I suppose that depends on whether or not the target has come out of the closet or not. It can be used for blackmail leverage. A child sex abuse scandal would have greater leverage.

C. Flower
21-03-2015, 07:11 PM
Came across a word today [sexpionage] and wondered, given the cloak and dagger world of intelligence services, might this technique be at the heart of these abuse cover-ups for matters of ''National Security?''

From a book on the subject... Sexpionage: The exploitation of sex by Soviet intelligence
Quote.. One of England's leading investigative reporters relates the complete and hair-raising story of Soviet Russia's KGB in action: its swallows (trained female operatives) and ravens (trained male prostitutes, sometimes homosexual); the degrading training course, designed to strip pupils of every sexual inhibition; unquote. http://www.amazon.com/Sexpionage-The-exploitation-Soviet-intelligence/dp/0151813809

Articles i've read on this thread say Russia was flagging up the activities of Cyril Smith and others at the time he was an active kiddy fiddler.
Besides....Quote.. In the early 1960s British news media were dominated by several high-profile spying stories: the breaking of the Portland spy ring in 1961, the capture and sentencing of George Blake in the same year and, in 1962, the case of the Admiralty clerk, John Vassall, blackmailed into spying by the Soviets who threatened to expose his homosexuality unquote.

Take ''The Profumo affair'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair Sex, sex and more sex. Enough to bring Governments down?

M15 / M16 is are always quick of the mark to say "we don't do that kind of thing", i.e. using sex to get information , but we know from the activities of special branch men under deep cover (like Mark Kennedy) that they most certainly do.

morticia
21-03-2015, 08:02 PM
I always thought the best line in "the Guard" was the one where the Guard asks the IRA guy "did ye have gay fellas in the 'RA?"
The response "of course, how else do you think we infiltrated MI5"?

ROFL...

Trow
21-03-2015, 09:22 PM
M15 / M16 is are always quick of the mark to say "we don't do that kind of thing", i.e. using sex to get information , but we know from the activities of special branch men under deep cover (like Mark Kennedy) that they most certainly do.

They are all at it in my opinion....
Quote.. Examples of people trapped by sexual means include:

Mordechai Vanunu, an Israeli nuclear whistleblower.

Clayton J. Lonetree, a U.S. Marine Sergeant embassy guard in Moscow, was entrapped by a female Soviet officer in 1987. He was then blackmailed into handing over documents when he was assigned to Vienna. Lonetree was the first U.S. Marine to be convicted of spying against the United States.

Roy Rhodes, a U.S. Army NCO serving at the U.S. embassy in Moscow, had a one-night stand (or was made to believe he had) with a Soviet agent while drunk. He was later told the agent was pregnant, and that unless he cooperated with the Soviet authorities, this would be revealed to his wife.

Irvin C. Scarbeck, a U.S. diplomat, was entrapped by a female Polish officer in 1961 and photographed in a compromising position. He was blackmailed into providing secrets.

Sharon Scranage, a CIA employee described as a "shy, naive, country girl", was allegedly seduced by Ghanaian intelligence agent Michael Soussoudis. She later gave him information on CIA operations in Ghana, which was later shared with Soviet-bloc countries.

John Vassall, a British embassy official in Moscow, who was guided by the KGB into having sex with multiple male partners while drunk in 1954. The KGB then used photographs of this incident to blackmail Vassall into providing them with secret information.

Bernard Boursicot, a French diplomat, was entrapped by Shi Pei Pu, who was working for the Chinese government. Shi Pei Pu, a male Chinese opera singer, successfully masqueraded as a woman and told Boursicot he was carrying Boursicot's child. The situation was fictionalized into the play M. Butterfly.

Sir Geoffrey Harrison, the British Ambassador to the Soviet Union, was recalled to London in 1968 after he admitted to the Foreign Office that he had been having an affair with a Russian chambermaid at the embassy, of which he had been shown compromising photographs by the KGB.

Katrina Leung, indicted as a double agent working for both China and the FBI, seduced her FBI handler, James J. Smith, and was able to obtain FBI information of use to China through him. She also had an affair with another FBI officer, William Cleveland.
In 2006, the British Defence Attaché in Islamabad Pakistan, was recalled home, when it emerged that he had been involved in a relationship with a Pakistani woman, who was an intelligence agent. While the British Government deny that secrets were lost, others sources say that several Western operatives and operations within Pakistan were compromised.

In May 2007 a female officer serving in Sweden's Kosovo force was suspected of having leaked classified information to her Serbian lover who turned out to be a spy.

Won Jeong-hwa, who was arrested by South Korea in 2008 and charged with spying for North Korea, is accused of using this method to obtain information from an army officer. Unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_HUMINT_asset_recruiting

Interesting link.

Trow
21-03-2015, 09:25 PM
I always thought the best line in "the Guard" was the one where the Guard asks the IRA guy "did ye have gay fellas in the 'RA?"
The response "of course, how else do you think we infiltrated MI5"?

ROFL...

Through the back door. :)

pluralist
21-03-2015, 09:42 PM
Current MP is at centre of inquiry into sex abuse cover-up

Politician’s name found in correspondence during raid on house of member of paedophile ring in 1990s but no further action taken


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/21/mp-inquiry-child-sex-abuse-cover-up-cyril-smith

pluralist
21-03-2015, 10:37 PM
Ex-cop claims a ROYAL was in paedophile ring but inquiry was closed to shield Buckingham Palace from scandal

23:01, 21 March 2015
By Nick Dorman , Mark Williams-Thomas

The former Met Police officer says a vice squad cop told him an investigation into Establishment figures was axed for reasons of national security


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-cop-claims-royal-paedophile-ring-5379159#ICID=sharebar_twitter

pluralist
01-04-2015, 11:25 AM
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5532/carole-kasir-boasted-about-vips-who-visited-elm-guest-house

Trow
07-04-2015, 02:09 PM
A man, Richard Kerr, abused at Kincora, has said he was also attacked at the Dolphin Square luxury apartment complex and Elm Guest House, both in London. The first time the three places have been linked.
Quote.. Asked if he would name those involved, Mr Kerr told Channel 4 News: "I'm still in some fear. Even though I'm willing to take the courage.

"I need to know that I can have faith in our government but right now, when they're not willing to bring Kincora into Westminster, the message that sends to me is that there's some kind of cover-up and there has been."

Richard Kerr, who was abused at Kincora in the 1970s, claims he and two other boys were hand-picked to be trafficked to London in 1977 and sexually abused by men.

He said both of the other men have since taken their own lives. unquote. http://www.u.tv/News/2015/04/07/Kincora-victim-abused-by-powerful-people-34927

pluralist
07-04-2015, 06:30 PM
^ This issue coming to the fore in the media means institutional abuse covered up by State operatives at highest levels could become a general election issue, which neither of the party leaderships want.

C. Flower
07-04-2015, 07:12 PM
Anthony Blunt confessed to MI5 in 1964, why wasn't he prosecuted & why was he allowed to work for the Queen Mother?

Class was a factor. Not the sort of person that normally would find themselves in Wormwood Scrubs.

pluralist
07-04-2015, 08:57 PM
Class was a factor. Not the sort of person that normally would find themselves in Wormwood Scrubs.

Indeed. It was a rhetorical question really. And actually the real question is why though Thatcher did out Blunt as a Soviet spy on the floor of the House of Commons shortly after she took up office as Prime Minister (fifteen years after he confessed) he was never 'outed' or prosecuted as a paedophile in his lifetime.

C. Flower
07-04-2015, 10:16 PM
Indeed. It was a rhetorical question really. And actually the real question is why though Thatcher did out Blunt as a Soviet spy on the floor of the House of Commons shortly after she took up office as Prime Minister (fifteen years after he confessed) he was never 'outed' or prosecuted as a paedophile in his lifetime.

Most of the allegations being reported relate to people now dead. Did people go to the police and make complaints and find that no action was taken ?

pluralist
07-04-2015, 10:35 PM
Most of the allegations being reported relate to people now dead. Did people go to the police and make complaints and find that no action was taken ?

Your question, shall we say, begs other questions, such as who would have the power to shut down police investigations (which some reports say happened) but certainly allegations were made against Lord Brittan of Spennithorne , Sir Cyril Smith, and for that matter Sir Jimmy Savile, while they were still alive, and indeed against Lord Janner, who is still alive. I don't know if anyone went to the police about Sir Anthony Blunt, specifically, but allegations of child abuse linking him to Kincora were made against him in Private Eye while he was still alive. I understand the source may have been Robin Bryans.

C. Flower
08-04-2015, 09:21 AM
Your question, shall we say, begs other questions, such as who would have the power to shut down police investigations (which some reports say happened) but certainly allegations were made against Lord Brittan of Spennithorne , Sir Cyril Smith, and for that matter Sir Jimmy Savile, while they were still alive, and indeed against Lord Janner, who is still alive. I don't know if anyone went to the police about Sir Anthony Blunt, specifically, but allegations of child abuse linking him to Kincora were made against him in Private Eye while he was still alive. I understand the source may have been Robin Bryans.

There is a report today on RTE about a man who when a boy says he was taken from Kincora to London and abused. The call to extend the inquiry to the north of Ireland is being made again.

morticia
08-04-2015, 04:16 PM
There is a report today on RTE about a man who when a boy says he was taken from Kincora to London and abused. The call to extend the inquiry to the north of Ireland is being made again.

This is really beyond sickening. Most of the perps are 6 ft under and the authorities are still threatening people trying to dig all this out of the closet. This, after the Church scandals, in 2015. The British government should either deal with this promptly, or be impeached. But I doubt it's even a major election issue.

pluralist
08-04-2015, 05:35 PM
There is a report today on RTE about a man who when a boy says he was taken from Kincora to London and abused. The call to extend the inquiry to the north of Ireland is being made again.

I think that is a Channel 4 report originally though I am glad if RTE picked up on it.

morticia
08-04-2015, 06:07 PM
I think that is a Channel 4 report originally though I am glad if RTE picked up on it.

Yes, given the flak SF has had over prior IRA misdemeanours, it's only fair that the other side's dirty laundry should get a bl00dy good airing too [emoji35][emoji49].
Fairness, and the hanging out to dry of as many offenders as possible. Regardless of ethnic origin, political persuasion or religion.

pluralist
08-04-2015, 06:23 PM
Yes, given the flak SF has had over prior IRA misdemeanours, it's only fair that the other side's dirty laundry should get a bl00dy good airing too [emoji35][emoji49].
Fairness, and the hanging out to dry of as many offenders as possible. Regardless of ethnic origin, political persuasion or religion.

You will not see the likes of Fintan O'Toole or Eoghan Harris picking up on this. O'Toole has already decided that only the IRA and Roman Catholic Church are uniquely culpable, using some strange and forced logic that only he understands (in spite of his own newspaper's archive containing contemporaneous reports on Kincora.)

You might get some attempt at balance from RTE or the Irish Independent (barring of course Sunday edition of latter).

Trow
08-04-2015, 09:12 PM
The Richard Kerr video from channel 4..here....
http://www.channel4.com/news/mi5-kincora-richard-kerr-brian-gemmell-child-abuse

morticia
08-04-2015, 09:13 PM
The Roman Catholic Church got away with too much for sure. However, in comparison with paedophile rings associated with national governments, we may be about to find out that they were amateurs.

It's not just the UK either....Marc Dutroux, anyone? There were similar allegations in Portugal, but I remember the case less well.

Time the likes of Fintan took an interest, methinks.

Trow
09-04-2015, 03:49 PM
The Richard Kerr video from channel 4..here....
http://www.channel4.com/news/mi5-kincora-richard-kerr-brian-gemmell-child-abuse

Touching........I found.

A stolen childhood.

Trow
09-04-2015, 04:22 PM
''M'' comments to Bond on the way to Skyfall...... ''Orphans make the best agents.''

Keeping in mind the extreme degradation process in creating a ''Raven'' [male sexpionage agent] designed to strip them of all inhibitions [as detailed in post a little way back]

Add to that the chat of William Mc Grath being a British MI5 agent and this recent evidence from Richard Kerr [Kincora/London link] and ask....... ''Was he being groomed as/was he an agent?''

pluralist
09-04-2015, 06:44 PM
Part of McGrath’s immunity lay in his closeness to top Unionist politician Sir Robin Knox Cunningham, who was also a pederast and once served as parliamentary private secretary to Harold Macmillan.

While at Cambridge, Knox Cunningham had become friends with Anthony Blunt, later the infamous Soviet spy and another alleged abuser of Kincora boys.

It has been claimed that Blunt used his knowledge of Kincora’s other clients to protect himself from prosecution when he had been uncovered as a spy.

The establishment paedophiles do not seem to have confined their abuse in Ulster just to Kincora’s premises.

I was telephoned recently by a respected BBC journalist who told me that he had uncovered serious allegations that boys from care homes in Belfast and Dublin had been trafficked for rape-fuelled sessions in stately homes in the west of the province.

The violent chaos in Ulster at the time provided the perfect cover to protect abusers and silence witnesses.

In a world dominated by fear the usual checks on the misuse of power disappeared. Investigations could easily be shut down in the name of security.


http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/569181/sex-abuse-claims-Leo-McKinstry

pluralist
12-04-2015, 02:55 AM
MI6 covered up historic child sex abuse ring discovered during surveillance operation
A FORMER spy has described how a surveillance operation against loyalist terrorists in Northern Ireland uncovered a paedophile ring with links to Westminster.
By James Fielding
PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Apr 12, 2015 | UPDATED: 02:48, Sun, Apr 12, 2015




The ex-intelligence officer said MI6 was ordered to watch the Kincora care home in Belfast in the 1970s because one of its housemasters, William McGrath, was the leader of paramilitary group Tara.

Spies witnessed terror-related arms deals but also found evidence of an international paedophile gang trafficking victims to Brighton, London, Amsterdam and Vienna.

Our source, who was involved in the operation but has asked to remain anonymous,
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/569866/Child-sex-abuse-ring-kept-secret-British-spies-MI6

^ I am not easily shockable having read a lot about allegations regarding these VIP abuse networks but Vienna is a new one on me, must admit.

Trow
12-04-2015, 07:30 PM
@ above.
So the source says they [MI6] were watching Kincora but could'nt move for fear of blowing cover on their operation. Afterall, Kincora was a meeting place for discussions on weapons procurement/trading between John Mc Keague and Mc Grath in 1971.

Mc Grath had close links with hard line protestants in the Netherlands from who'm he acquired rifles/machine guns and ammo. [I note the Amsterdam connection to a paedophile gang trafficking to Amsterdam in above post.]

In the same year Mc Grath was sentenced [1981] there was an arms find linked to Tara. Timely. No charges on Mc Grath in relation to that though.... strange after all that MI6 spying on Mc Grath and co.

So,did MI6 keep the whole abuse matter under wraps because they were secretly watching the leaders of a group with access to weapons and a ''doomsday plan?''

I guess that's somehow acceptable under ''National Security'' guidelines without the Cambridge spy ring/ British establishment connections theory?

Dr. FIVE
15-04-2015, 12:07 AM
On RTÉ radio the other day the parliamentary correspondent of the Irish Times ventured that it would be a strange press that did not go after someone like Eamon Lillis, who killed his wife with a brick and then made off with her money following a light prison sentence. He is right, I think.

But what would be even stranger is if you had a press in Ireland that occupied itself with honouring the royalty and military of another country –as is the case with the current concern including Britain in centenary commemorations- whilst ignoring altogether the role of members of that country’s establishment in perpetrating and facilitating not only heinous instances of child abuse, but death squads, and in Ireland.

Kincora and its housemaster William McGrath are not at all marginal elements of the history of the Northern conflict: they are vitally important to the question of the role of the British State in promoting loyalist paramilitary activity that prolonged the conflict and caused thousands of deaths

https://hiredknaves.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/against-whataboutery/

C. Flower
17-04-2015, 02:55 PM
@ above.
So the source says they [MI6] were watching Kincora but could'nt move for fear of blowing cover on their operation. Afterall, Kincora was a meeting place for discussions on weapons procurement/trading between John Mc Keague and Mc Grath in 1971.

Mc Grath had close links with hard line protestants in the Netherlands from who'm he acquired rifles/machine guns and ammo. [I note the Amsterdam connection to a paedophile gang trafficking to Amsterdam in above post.]

In the same year Mc Grath was sentenced [1981] there was an arms find linked to Tara. Timely. No charges on Mc Grath in relation to that though.... strange after all that MI6 spying on Mc Grath and co.

So,did MI6 keep the whole abuse matter under wraps because they were secretly watching the leaders of a group with access to weapons and a ''doomsday plan?''

I guess that's somehow acceptable under ''National Security'' guidelines without the Cambridge spy ring/ British establishment connections theory?

More likely because McGrath was "one of theirs"

We have a thread with the 30 year Rule PRONI papers on Kincora and McGrath.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?15348-UK-PRONI-State-Papers-Release-Evidence-of-Kincora-Boys-Home-Cover-Up-by-British-State#.VTEebPBsPkc

McGrath was influential in the founding of the UDA and a person who had a lot more impact on events in the north than is suggested in most reportage.



The scandal is referred to in several files released by the Public Record Office under the 30-year rule. However, the files have been redacted with key papers removed – while one file couldn't be found.
One file contains a note of the private meeting in February 1982 attended by senior members of the political and legal establishment, including the Attorney General, Secretary of State Jim Prior, the Lord Chancellor Quintin Hogg and Sir William Bourne, a barrister and senior civil servant.
Just before the meeting, Mr Havers had spoken to the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland (http://searchtopics.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/topic/Northern_Ireland).
According to the memo, Mr Havers learned that the RUC was investigating three separate aspects of the Kincora affair.
"The first concerned a man... who in 1972 was falsely acquitted on the basis of perjured evidence; the file on his case has subsequently been destroyed by a bomb," the memo reports.
Mr Havers was also told how the man may have withheld information on a notorious murder which took place nine years earlier.
The body of 10-year-old Brian McDermott was discovered in a sack in the River Lagan in September, 1973. No one was ever convicted of the killing. The meeting was told that the information provided "conflicted with what the RUC had previously told ministers and officials".
The Kincora scandal first emerged in January 1980.
It was later claimed the RUC had been informed of the abuse at the home years earlier but did nothing. McGrath, who was leader of an obscure loyalist paramilitary group called Tara, was said to be on the payroll of MI5 (http://searchtopics.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/topic/MI5) and MI6.
A confidential Government note in the files said: "It is claimed that influence was brought to bear on the police not to pursue their enquiries."
It added: "There are persistent rumours that 'guilty men' in high places have not been brought to justice." The note concluded that it was unlikely the "vague rumours" would be substantiated.


According to Martin Dillon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Dillon) McGrath held influence over Charles Harding Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Harding_Smith) and encouraged him to establish the Ulster Defence Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Association) (UDA) in 1971, reasoning that the group could replace the recently disbanded Ulster Special Constabulary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Special_Constabulary).[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGrath#cite_note-22) A leaflet distributed amongst loyalists calling for vigilante groups such as the Shankill Defence Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Defence_Association) and the Woodvale Defence Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodvale_Defence_Association) to form into one "army", a document that effectively brought the UDA to life, was actually written by McGrath, according to Chris Moore.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGrath#cite_note-23) Moore further argues that McGrath's MI5 handlers had instructed him to write this document as they hoped to control loyalist counter-insurgency through the UDA.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGrath#cite_note-24) His influence in the UDA in its early years was, according to Dillon, demonstrated by the fate of Ernie Elliott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Elliott), a leading figure in the early days of the UDA West Belfast Brigade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDA_West_Belfast_Brigade) who eventually was killed by another UDA member. Dillon argues that McGrath's secret service handlers implored him to launch a whispering campaign against Elliott, who had flirted with communist and had been rumoured to be seeking a rapprochement with the Official IRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_IRA),

DCon
17-04-2015, 08:04 PM
More of it



An ex-undercover officer has told LBC five suspected child abusers were released without charge despite admitting to being part of a paedophile ring with the former MP Cyril Smith.




www.lbc.co.uk/ex-police-officer-breaks-silence-on-cyril-smith-108099

morticia
17-04-2015, 08:30 PM
I really don't understand why the Establishment were so keen to protect Cyril Smith. He was a Liberal, and the parties of power and influence since the 1940s onwards (1920s more like) are Labour and the Tories. So why this desire to bury anything related to Smith? Who or what lay behind him?

C. Flower
17-04-2015, 08:48 PM
I really don't understand why the Establishment were so keen to protect Cyril Smith. He was a Liberal, and the parties of power and influence since the 1940s onwards (1920s more like) are Labour and the Tories. So why this desire to bury anything related to Smith? Who or what lay behind him?

No mention of Greville Janner here yet ?

pluralist
17-04-2015, 09:13 PM
No mention of Greville Janner here yet ?

There's a bit of a row developing.


Lord Janner child abuse allegations were not passed to me, former DPP says

Lord Macdonald QC criticises local CPS officials for dropping pursuit of charges without consulting headquarters, helping Labour peer escape prosecution

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/17/lord-janner-child-abuse-allegations-were-not-passed-to-me-former-dpp-says?CMP=share_btn_tw

pluralist
18-04-2015, 05:49 AM
I really don't understand why the Establishment were so keen to protect Cyril Smith. He was a Liberal, and the parties of power and influence since the 1940s onwards (1920s more like) are Labour and the Tories. So why this desire to bury anything related to Smith? Who or what lay behind him?

It's a good question. It has been suggested he was one of the few Liberal MP's at a time when they almost held the balance of power, but tbh, that doesn't explain why establishment seem to have gone out on a limb to protect him.

morticia
18-04-2015, 06:43 AM
Yes, I'd spotted the "too senile to be prosecuted" Lord Janner on the front pages DCon kindly posts, alright. Unlike Smith, however, I don't remember what he was well known for, either, or even which party he belonged to. Must look up...

Donal Og
18-04-2015, 08:07 AM
Yes, I'd spotted the "too senile to be prosecuted" Lord Janner on the front pages DCon kindly posts, alright. Unlike Smith, however, I don't remember what he was well known for, either, or even which party he belonged to. Must look up...

Greville Janner was a Labour MP in Leicester. Named in open court by one boy if I remember right. I read all about him in Private Eye back in the 80s when I lived in London. As for Smith, yes the Libs held the balance through most of the 70s. Wilson ran a minority govt. Then won wafer thin majority. Cyril smith was a very high profile MP - partly because of his jolly roly poly image. But I agree - this doesn't explain it all. His impunity may be because of who/what he knew?

morticia
18-04-2015, 04:41 PM
They must have both been part of a greater and more sinister whole in order to have benefitted from the immunity granted them, I suspect.

pluralist
19-04-2015, 03:45 AM
It Shouldn't Happen to a Radio Presenter 25: Breaking the Official Secrets Act & Protecting an Interviewee

18 Apr 2015 at 11:22

http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2015/04/18/it-shouldn-t-happen-to-a-radio-presenter-25-breaking-the-official-secrets-act-protecting-an-interviewee

DCon
19-04-2015, 12:31 PM
No mention of Greville Janner here yet ?

Plenty here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/establishment-stopped-me-exposing-greville-janner-25-years-ago?CMP=share_btn_tw

Donal Og
20-04-2015, 09:54 AM
My memory let me down: it was not one of Janner's alleged victims who named him in court but a care home manager accused of abuse. This man - Frank Beck - claimed he had been set up for Janner's crimes. He died in prison. Janner's dementia is supposed to have set in back in 09. According to the article in today's Graun, Tories and Liberals came to his defence. All very suspicious in itself surely.

pluralist
21-04-2015, 10:22 PM
Eleven MPs from seven different parties have signed a letter protesting against CPS decision re Janner. Virtually unprecedented plumb in middle of a general election season.

DCon
24-04-2015, 08:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDYiHWzXIAErZUb.png

pluralist
24-04-2015, 09:02 PM
^ Thanks, was just going to post that front page.

pluralist
24-04-2015, 09:10 PM
Raze Kincora 'house of horrors' to the ground, says Peter Robinson


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/raze-kincora-house-of-horrors-to-the-ground-says-peter-robinson-31167272.html

morticia
25-04-2015, 11:30 AM
Tempted to agree with Peter Robinson there, providing this doesn't provide an excuse to erase all the records as well [emoji49]

Donal Og
25-04-2015, 06:29 PM
Handy for the Wail that Janner is a Labour peer. Will Leon Brittan make the headlines I wonder?:rolleyes:

morticia
25-04-2015, 09:34 PM
Handy for the Wail that Janner is a Labour peer. Will Leon Brittan make the headlines I wonder?:rolleyes:

Fat chance. But he should. He wielded far more power than Janner, as Home Sec.

pluralist
25-04-2015, 10:03 PM
To be fair, the Mail have done plenty of exposes on Brittan. Whether they would put him on the front cover mid-election season is another matter, granted.

pluralist
26-04-2015, 03:54 AM
Incidentally, I'm informed that the Mail's position re the possibility of being sued by Lord Janner is 'bring it on'.

morticia
26-04-2015, 07:00 AM
Incidentally, I'm informed that the Mail's position re the possibility of being sued by Lord Janner is 'bring it on'.

For once, I'm sympathetic to the Wail....

Donal Og
26-04-2015, 11:29 AM
How can he sue them ffs , if he isn't fit to plead in his own case?

Trow
26-04-2015, 12:07 PM
How can he sue them ffs , if he isn't fit to plead in his own case?

Very good point.

morticia
26-04-2015, 02:07 PM
How can he sue them ffs , if he isn't fit to plead in his own case?

I would imagine some relative will sue by proxy, or whatever the senile equivalent of "in loco parentis" is. Given the tendency of the Establishment towards reflexive cover-up, I'd like to bet a way will be found. Sigh.

Trow
28-04-2015, 12:54 PM
Victims call for Kincora to be demolished....

Quote.Survivors of sex abuse at Kincora children's home in east Belfast have called for the building to be demolished.
Gary Hoy, who lived in Kincora, said the memories would always be there but he would like to see the building gone.
Survivor Clint Massey said demolishing the building would bring a kind of closure for victims like him. unquote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32499325

And here... http://www.u.tv/News/2015/04/28/Victims-call-for-Kincora-to-be-demolished-36298

pluralist
28-04-2015, 08:48 PM
Clegg v Danczuk: Pair continue War of Words Over Cyril Smith Affair


https://audioboom.com/boos/3126031-clegg-v-danczuk-pair-continue-war-of-words-over-cyril-smith-affair?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=retweet&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

pluralist
30-04-2015, 06:11 PM
Lord Bramall in child abuse quiz
Press AssociationPress Association – 47 minutes ago

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lord-bramall-child-abuse-quiz-171831370.html#KsHBASm

pluralist
02-05-2015, 05:58 AM
At the heart of the alleged conspiracy is a man called Michael Hirst. He was the Chief Constable of Leicestershire for much of the 1980s, and went on to become a director of the private security company Group 4.

According to the legal papers, which date from the early 1990s, Mr Hirst just happened to be ‘very close friends’ with Greville Janner. Both men, the dossier alleges, were Freemasons.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3064947/Lord-Janner-director-firm-THREE-WEEKS-ago-emerges-damning-dossier-alleges-police-chief-allowed-peer-molest-young-boys.html

pluralist
02-05-2015, 11:49 PM
Truly surreal.


Westminster paedophile ring: Former Tory MP Harvey Proctor says he was ‘hung out to dry’ by police over sex claims

Mr Proctor vehemently denies any knowledge of such parties and believes he has been picked on as an easy target


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/westminster-paedophile-ring-former-tory-mp-harvey-proctor-says-he-was-hung-out-to-dry-by-police-over-sex-claims-10221532.html



Harvey Proctor

Sunday 3 May 2015
Harvey Proctor: A gay sex ring in Westminster? I don't believe it

The police say that I am not a suspect in the historic sexual abuse inquiry, yet they destroy my reputation


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/harvey-proctor-a-gay-sex-ring-in-westminster-i-dont-believe-it-10221263.html

pluralist
15-05-2015, 04:01 PM
Tory MP Victor Montagu escaped child sex abuse trial in 1970s

Politician admitted indecent assault but police and prosecutors let him off with caution when he promised not to see boy again


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/15/tory-mp-victor-montagu-escaped-child-sex-abuse-trial-in-1970s

DCon
20-05-2015, 04:19 PM
1,400 suspects? 1,400!

http://news.sky.com/story/1487530/1400-suspects-in-vip-sex-abuse-investigation

Saoirse go Deo
20-05-2015, 04:24 PM
Wasnt Mountbatten supposed to be involved in thsi?

morticia
20-05-2015, 04:31 PM
Wasnt Mountbatten supposed to be involved in thsi?

I think the only concrete evidence of this is some Indian antiquities in the British museum that cannot be displayed owing to obvious child porn content. These used to belong to Mountbatten. There are links further up this thread with more allegations, however.

Donal Og
20-05-2015, 05:15 PM
I think the only concrete evidence of this is some Indian antiquities in the British museum that cannot be displayed owing to obvious child porn content. These used to belong to Mountbatten. There are links further up this thread with more allegations, however.

Never heard that one. Plenty of other stuff about him though. He was the leader of choice for the far right plot to remove Harold Wilson. There were two serious plans - 1 in 1968 and 1 in 1974. Check it out.

pluralist
20-05-2015, 05:41 PM
Supreme Court Overturns Ban on Memoir

http://www.jamesrhodes.tv/supreme-court-overturns-ban-on-memoir/

pluralist
20-05-2015, 05:44 PM
261 are classified as persons of public prominence.

Of these, 135 come from the world of TV, film or radio

76 are listed as politicians – it should be noted that these include local-level politicians, not just national figures

43 are from the music industry

7 are from the world of sport

76 politician suspects and no arrests, compare that to the number of entertainment world arrests, says it all.

morticia
20-05-2015, 06:47 PM
76 politician suspects and no arrests, compare that to the number of entertainment world arrests, says it all.

Speaks volumes, and no doubt, it's the tip of the iceberg...

@Donal, yes, I knew about the coup plots, but I hadn't realised Mountbatten was the replacement leader of choice. Interesting.

C. Flower
20-05-2015, 07:44 PM
http://www.jamesrhodes.tv/supreme-court-overturns-ban-on-memoir/


Very interesting, if you consider the way that people who were sexually abused by officials of the Church have been silenced in Ireland.

Supreme Court judgement.



“The only proper conclusion is that there is every justification for the publication. A person who has suffered in the way that the appellant has suffered, and has struggled to cope with the consequences of his suffering in the way that he has struggled, has the right to tell the world about it. And there is a corresponding public interest in others being able to listen to his life story in all its searing detail

Frankie Lee
20-05-2015, 08:52 PM
I think the only concrete evidence of this is some Indian antiquities in the British museum that cannot be displayed owing to obvious child porn content. These used to belong to Mountbatten. There are links further up this thread with more allegations, however.

That would belong to his brother George:

By the age of 12, his sisters had married German aristocrats who would later distinguish themselves as bastions of the Nazi Party, which, along with his mother's madness and incarceration in a mental institution, did not make Philip a boy to boast about his immediate family in any great detail. He was brought to England under the patronage of his Uncle George, second marquess of Milford Haven and inheritor of the anglicised Battenburg name of Mountbatten.

George, whose main contribution to society was a vast collection of pornography, majoring most spectacularly in incestuous orgies and artificial sex organs that he left to the lucky British Museum
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/23/monarchy.sallyvincent

The claims against Louis are thin enough and come from a conspiracy theory book called The War of the Windsors. He did bring Jimmy Savile into the royal family though and given his security service links could not have been unaware of what Savile was.

pluralist
20-05-2015, 09:34 PM
That would belong to his brother George:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/23/monarchy.sallyvincent


MOUNTBATTEN, George, 2nd Marquess of Milford Haven [1892-1938].
Scope: Prospectuses and catalogues of erotic and obscene books, pictures and instruments, dating from 1889 to 1929. 81 parts. Collected by George Mountbatten.
Location: Cup.364.g.48.

http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/prbooks/namedcolnprintedmat/namedcolnprintedmatmn/namedcolnprintedmatmn.html

pluralist
26-05-2015, 12:42 AM
What Happened To Vishal? LBC's New Podcast


http://www.lbc.co.uk/what-happened-to-vishal-lbcs-new-podcast-109202

http://lbc.audioagain.com/presenters/34-tom-swarbrick/389-lbcs-investigation-into-vishal-mehrotras-disappearance

pluralist
26-05-2015, 01:36 AM
Not 'Kincora-on-Thames' as such, but the network this woman claims abused her two decades ago included at least one politician:




Abuse Victim: Cops Stood Guard As I Was Raped


A woman tells Sky News she was sexually abused by different men, with officers sometimes standing guard for the perpetrators.

01:57, UK, Tuesday 26 May 2015
Esther Baker

Esther Baker spoke exclusively to Sky News about her tormented childhood

By Tom Parmenter, Sky News Correspondent

A woman has told Sky News how uniformed police officers stood guard as abusers sexually assaulted her as a young girl.

Waiving her right to anonymity, Esther Baker, 32, spoke exclusively to Sky News about her tormented childhood that saw her sexually abused by men at various locations.

She claimed police officers would stand guard for the perpetrators and on some occasions even joined in the abuse in woodland on Cannock Chase in Staffordshire.

She said: "I got the feeling very much that they were protecting somebody, that they were with one of the men.

"One of them (police officers) I knew from church. There were a few occasions where they would be in uniform, and I kind of knew, I learnt that when they were in uniform that it was going to be a rough night.

"On occasion they would - they would sort of join in," she added.

Ms Baker recalls one police officer apologising to her.

"There was one that I can remember, one of the times I tried to run away and tried to get away from them and he came after me, caught up with me and he was carrying me back to where the rest of them were and he said he was sorry," she said.

From the age of six, Ms Baker was taken to be abused by different men on Cannock Chase, at various properties around Staffordshire and beyond.

Other children were often there and sometimes they were given alcohol: "We were all pretty much the same, same ages, we never spoke, I don't know where they came from, who brought them."

She says the sexual abuse was often filmed and involved men of varying ages from different parts of the country.

She said: "I don't quite know how to explain. I was brought up in a religious household and one thing that kept me so sure that what they were doing was right was that there were references to people, Lords and a judge.

"I picked up on those names, because I thought one of them must have been God because one of them was 'Our Lord'.

"I just thought that they were on God's authority."

Decades on, Ms Baker has now finally decided to speak out and has made the painful decision to approach the police again, who have assured her that her claims will be investigated thoroughly.

She has recently taken part in a series of gruelling video interviews with detectives recounting the abuse.

She decided to speak to Sky News in the hope of finding other victims or the police officers who were involved.

She said: "I would say to the one that was sorry that he knows who these people were and why they were there.

"I need them to fill in the gaps that I just don't know, I need people that were adults then but they couldn't stop it for whatever reason, it is time for them to stop it now."

The other children who were allegedly abused on Cannock Chase may also hold vital information.

Ms Baker Esther added: "I know they are terrified to come forward, I know what they were told, I know what threats were made and I know why they are scared.

"But every one of us that comes forward will hold a different piece of the puzzle. I can't fill it in on my own."

Ms Baker has given the name of one politician to the police and a detailed account of the years of abuse.

She said: "I always swore I would never go near the police again - never... but I have hid it for twenty years, that has not worked, that hasn't taken the fear away - I have got nothing to lose anymore."

Ms Baker has ongoing support from the Lantern Project on Merseyside who work with survivors of sexual abuse.


http://news.sky.com/story/1490565/abuse-victim-cops-stood-guard-as-i-was-raped

pluralist
27-05-2015, 12:25 AM
Guardian on same allegations.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/26/vip-paedophile-ring-woman-waives-anonymity-link-politician-abuse

pluralist
28-05-2015, 08:57 AM
From The Queen’s Speech Debate: John Mann MP on CSA

John Mann makes a passionate speech about CSA on the 1st day of the new parliament. He inducts new members into the ‘scandal’ of CSA in the country, and explains that he has put down an early day motion asking for the Official Secrets Act to be lifted for officials who wish to give evidence to help answer the question of how Cyril Smith, and others, were allowed to get away with prolific child abuse for so many years.

http://linkis.com/wordpress.com/ycktk

pluralist
31-05-2015, 12:32 AM
Possibly why Hague stepped down as Foreign Secretary last year and didn't run for re-election this year.



Hague faces cover-up row over Thatcher ally's link to care home abuse scandal: Former foreign secretary said to have been made aware of Sir Peter Morrison's connections while working as Welsh secretary

Hague expected to be criticised in new report on Wales care home scandal
As many as 650 children were raped or assaulted in the 70s and 80s
Then-Welsh Secretary Hague ordered an inquiry into the abuse in 1996
New Whitehall inquiry expected to accuse Welsh office of mishandling it

By Glen Owen and Brendan Carlin for The Mail on Sunday

Published: 23:41 GMT, 30 May 2015 | Updated: 23:41 GMT, 30 May 2015

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3104107/Hague-faces-cover-row-Thatcher-ally-s-link-care-home-abuse-scandal-Former-foreign-secretary-said-aware-Sir-Peter-Morrison-s-connections-working-Welsh-secretary.html

pluralist
31-05-2015, 12:57 AM
Lib Dem MP insists he 'did not rape little girl in the woods and is not a paedophile'

21:00, 30 May 2015
By Nick Dorman , David Hencke

The MP claims that his alleged victim’s detailed account of long-term sexual abuse – which is now subject to a major police investigation.



Ms Baker also said she was taken by her abusers to Dolphin Square, the luxury Westminster flats frequented by MPs at the centre of a Metropolitan Police probe into three alleged child murders, by a VIP child abuse gang.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lib-dem-mp-insists-did-5793397

pluralist
31-05-2015, 01:01 AM
From Twitter:


Darren Thornham ‏@DarrenCSAS 13 hrs13 hours ago

Irish travellers also held captive at dolphin square and tortured it seems, the story is huge

12:35 pm - 30 May 2015 · Details



Darren Thornham ‏@DarrenCSAS 13 hrs13 hours ago

Harrowing day today speaking to Romany gypsy survivors of torture at dolphin square, they still have the scars

Also, Eddi Reader, the Scots singer/songwriter (ex-Fairground Attraction) said on Twitter that she was resident in London during the 1980's and 1990's and claimed that several taxi drivers told her 'bad things go on in that place' whenever driving past the Dolphin Square complex.

DCon
31-05-2015, 08:51 PM
Jeez



The former Deputy Children's Commissioner for England has warned that child sex abuse in the UK is so widespread that there is 'not enough land' to build all the prisons needed to incarcerate offenders.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3104197/Official-warns-not-prisons-lock-UK-s-paedophiles.html?ito=social-facebook

pluralist
01-06-2015, 06:14 AM
Jeez



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3104197/Official-warns-not-prisons-lock-UK-s-paedophiles.html?ito=social-facebook

As in Ireland, you can be imprisoned for not paying for your tv licence in the UK. Surely the sensible thing is to free up prison spaces by not sending people to jail for trivial matters?

Trow
01-06-2015, 02:35 PM
Some movement in the Gary Hoy case...

Quote. A judicial review has begun over the decision to exclude the former Kincora boys' home in east Belfast from a child abuse inquiry being held at Westminster.
A victim is taking legal action to force an independent inquiry with power to compel witnesses and the security services to hand over documents.
Gary Hoy was abused by two men who were subsequently convicted.
There have been allegations that a paedophile ring at Kincora was linked to the British intelligence services. unquote. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32961423

Shocking disclosures here.. http://www.u.tv/News/2015/06/01/Collusion-evidence-highlighted-at-Kincora-challenge-38246

pluralist
02-06-2015, 07:38 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGeGHORWQAAIw2W.jpg:large

pluralist
04-06-2015, 05:58 PM
Notes of meetings Geoffrey Dickens had with Leon Brittan in the 1980s have been released....

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32992155

...but as usual they are giving us half a loaf, a name has been redacted from the list of attendees at one of the meetings:


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83396000/png/_83396865_dickens_minutestop_624.png



2 weeks' later, a break-in at Dickens' office:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGqSNjuWoAAfMyR.jpg

morticia
04-06-2015, 07:57 PM
This thread just gets worse by the minute. The current modus operandi appears to be to admit things are looking dodgy, but only after the alleged perp is safely 6ft under. Seethe.

pluralist
04-06-2015, 08:07 PM
This thread just gets worse by the minute. The current modus operandi appears to be to admit things are looking dodgy, but only after the alleged perp is safely 6ft under. Seethe.

Progress is being made but the pace seems glacial at times. The UK state's obsession with secrecy doesn't help. It's a throw-back from the Cold War/Troubles era that needs to be reformed.

pluralist
05-06-2015, 02:26 PM
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5574/kincora-staff-took-boys-to-europa-for-sexual-abuse-by-guests

pluralist
08-06-2015, 09:56 PM
Police in new Janner probe: Labour peer 'abused boy on trip to Scotland' as pressure grows to charge him despite his ill health

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3116088/Police-new-Janner-probe-Labour-peer-abused-boy-trip-Scotland-pressure-grows-charge-despite-ill-health.html#ixzz3cVhWHnM0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3116088/Police-new-Janner-probe-Labour-peer-abused-boy-trip-Scotland-pressure-grows-charge-despite-ill-health.html

pluralist
12-06-2015, 10:56 PM
How Savile seduced the royals: As it's claimed he nearly became godfather to Harry, how the predatory DJ wormed his way into the very heart of Palace life

Serial paedophile inveigled himself into Prince Charles' life as a mentor
He was granted unprecedented access across all of the royal palaces
Even the Queen couldn’t resist his charm — or so he liked to claim
But Diana found him 'creepy' and recoiled after he once licked her hand

By Richard Kay for the Daily Mail

Published: 21:06 GMT, 12 June 2015 | Updated: 21:31 GMT, 12 June 2015

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3122130/How-Savile-seduced-royals-s-claimed-nearly-godfather-Harry-predatory-DJ-wormed-way-heart-Palace-life.html#ixzz3ctK7brYn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3122130/How-Savile-seduced-royals-s-claimed-nearly-godfather-Harry-predatory-DJ-wormed-way-heart-Palace-life.html

^^ The fact that exposes as damning as the above are now in the conservative MSM does make me wonder if the conspiracy theory that Savile was in some way a procurer for VIP abusers has a grain of truth. But who knows.

pluralist
17-06-2015, 01:54 AM
Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Broadcast: 16/06/2015

Reporter: Mary Gearin

On November 5 1979 the son of the chauffeur at the Australian High Commission in London, Martin Allen, went missing. He's never been found. As each decade passes small strands of evidence appear, many suggesting he might have been taken by a paedophile ring with links to people high up in the British establishment.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2015/s4256372.htm

pluralist
23-06-2015, 10:08 PM
John Mann MP Speaking outside Parliament 23JUNE15-On Cover Ups-The CSA Inquiry-Cyril Smith


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jqvDoI94ts&feature=youtu.be

pluralist
24-06-2015, 06:44 PM
Allegations fly at heated Westminster child abuse conference
By Felicity Capon 6/24/15 at 1:10 PM


http://europe.newsweek.com/allegations-fly-heated-westminster-child-abuse-conference-329209

pluralist
26-06-2015, 08:31 PM
The Daily Mail is carrying a story that Lord Janner will after all face a "trial of the facts."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIc8aj5WUAA2s6E.jpg:large

pluralist
27-06-2015, 12:52 AM
So apparently it's the sixth anniversary of Michael Jackson's passing, I wonder if the Mail are trying to tell us something.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123403/Labour-peer-Lord-Janner-accused-child-sex-abuse-wrote-Michael-Jackson-congratulating-cleared-molesting-child.html

pluralist
27-06-2015, 01:03 AM
Lord Janner and the paedophile ring at his son's elite school: Labour peer's link to institution where teachers abused boys

Four paedophile teachers abused boys at University College School in 70s
Led by politics teacher Michael Densham, the ring were exposed in a book
Son of Lord Janner attended the school along with other famous alumni

By Guy Adams for the Daily Mail

Published: 22:50 GMT, 24 June 2015 | Updated: 04:47 GMT, 25 June 2015

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3138264/Lord-Janner-paedophile-ring-son-s-elite-school-Labour-peer-s-link-institution-teachers-abused-boys.html

DCon
27-06-2015, 08:05 PM
police cover up, freemasons..

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5596/police-raided-this-former-officer-in-cover-up-for-lord-janner

pluralist
27-06-2015, 10:18 PM
^ and a suspicious car crash death by the sound of things.

pluralist
29-06-2015, 08:40 AM
Picture of Sir Peter Hayman being congratulated after winning Mastermind. circa 1979

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIp6aN7WgAAKyWP.png

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/02/thatcher-peter-hayman-named-paedophile-archives

pluralist
30-06-2015, 09:55 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lord-janner-will-face-trial-over-child-abuse-allegations-as-crown-prosecution-overturns-decision-not-to-charge-him-10352186.html

^ Janner decision looks like a positive, potentially even a game-changer. At times it feels like three steps forward two steps back.

pluralist
02-07-2015, 12:51 AM
Phil of "Philspetition" talking at anti child abuse rally.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=459&v=8XhTsIdWSU8

"bankable blackmail assets" - yep, he's right, that's what it's about.

pluralist
06-07-2015, 03:41 PM
MP Simon Danczuk to step back from child abuse campaign

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33409563

pluralist
13-07-2015, 01:45 AM
Dr Morris Fraser




Now two former British Army officers, who tried to expose the abuse at the care home, have expressed their disquiet at the PSNI decision to refuse to reveal what it knew about Fraser.

When asked what information the police held on Fraser, following convictions in London and the US for child sexual abuse in the early 1970s, the PSNI said that it could “neither confirm nor deny that it holds the information” and cited, alongside privacy and prejudicial disclosure issues, “Section 23(5) – Information supplied by, or concerning, certain security bodies (national security)”.

Until now it was assumed that Fraser’s dealings with the security forces were limited to those required by his research into the effects of political violence on the young.

Captain Colin Wallace, a former British Army psychological operations officer, tried to expose an alleged paedophile ring involving loyalist paramilitaries and politicians in the 1970s, which included him authoring an army memo naming alleged abusers in 1973.

He remembers Fraser attending his offices at British Army headquarters in Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn, around that year. He told the IoS: “I can remember he came on a tour of our offices. He brought a foreign individual with him and discussed inter-community conflict. Afterwards, I recall one of my bosses telling me that if Fraser requested any Army assistance or facilities in future, not to agree to it.

“One of my colleagues, an Army major, added Fraser’s name to a document which I had compiled for the press about [the Ulster loyalist group] Tara and Kincora. This gives a strong indication that Army intelligence were well aware of who he was and what he was really getting up to at that time.”

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/tom-watson-and-todays-dr-morris-fraser-story/

Sidewinder
13-07-2015, 04:19 AM
https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/tom-watson-and-todays-dr-morris-fraser-story/

Oh look, our old friend Knox Cunningham gets a mention....and both Paisley and Molyneux being named as among those who were aware what was going on.

They are probably hoping that soon enough everyone involved will be dead, then they can fess up.

pluralist
13-07-2015, 04:38 AM
Oh look, our old friend Knox Cunningham gets a mention....and both Paisley and Molyneux being named as among those who were aware what was going on.

Indeed - no new revelations in that as such, however, the page you refer to is an extract from Paul Foot's book published decades ago. If you ask me, each of those three were frontmen, there are some much odder types on the fringes of the Tara stuff, top hats and those who moved in aristocratic circles etc.

pluralist
16-07-2015, 01:52 AM
Former agent: I was abandoned by MI5 after breakdown
By Nick Hopkins and Jake Morris BBC Newsnight



The surveillance on the suspected paedophile - codenamed Operation Saturday - caused him concern, he says, because he couldn't understand why MI5 was doing it.

"It involved extremely powerful, wealthy people. It was a very need to know job... We were given the scantest of briefings on it. All of a sudden the job stopped. I did actually question why were we doing paedophiles - it wasn't in our remit.

"The trouble with the police is they move from job to job. Special Branch only do it for three or four years. Then they go onto CID or some other job. There was a strong suspicion of corruption within the police, whereas MI5 was more highly trusted."

The operation ended after a few weeks - Acott says the target was using drugs and prostitutes, but he saw no signs of child abuse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33543352

pluralist
18-07-2015, 07:03 PM
Named in Kincora ‘cover-up’: Lord Mountbatten, Sir Maurice Oldfield, Sir Anthony Blunt, Sir Knox Cunningham....Mountbatten 'mixed with paedophiles who went to parties in the Republic of Ireland'....

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5608/richard-kerr-names-powerful-men-who-covered-up-kincora

morticia
18-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Mountbatten's name crops up again and again....

pluralist
18-07-2015, 10:20 PM
Senior MP accused of child sex abuse: Two MPs report same serving Labour politician to police over sex attacks and corruption claims

Labour MP John Mann one of the informants to pass information to police
A fortnight ago a Conservative MP told police about the same politician
Unnamed MP is accused of offering political favours to a brothel owner
Also claimed they were arrested for indecency in public place with a minor

By Glen Owen and Miles Goslett For The Mail On Sunday

Published: 21:46 GMT, 18 July 2015 | Updated: 21:47 GMT, 18 July 2015

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166708/Senior-MP-accused-child-sex-abuse-Two-MPs-report-serving-Labour-politician-police-sex-attacks-corruption-claims.html#ixzz3gHgPLzq8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166708/Senior-MP-accused-child-sex-abuse-Two-MPs-report-serving-Labour-politician-police-sex-attacks-corruption-claims.html

DCon
22-07-2015, 10:11 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKjNWqTW8AAHMad.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKjHUXoWEAEFeaH.jpg

DCon
23-07-2015, 08:43 PM
More of it



Tony Blair's government was briefed about a paedophile investigation in which a minister was a suspect before it was halted, previously secret documents reveal.

Scotland Yard's anti-corruption command are investigating claims that evidence the minister was part of a paedophile ring in Lambeth, South London, in the 1980s was covered up.





http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/blair-government-briefed-police-paedophile-6123122



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKnxQinWEAAhr8G.png

pluralist
23-07-2015, 08:55 PM
^ The person in the Mirror article isn't necessarily the same Labour person as implicated in the Mail and Sun articles from a few days previously.

And that's all I'd say in that for the time being.

pluralist
23-07-2015, 09:03 PM
Latest from Times.


Child abuse cover-up at the heart of government

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4505935.ece?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-thetimes-_-20150723-_-News-_-212488856&linkId=15800634

C. Flower
24-07-2015, 03:08 PM
More names, on newly 'discovered' documents, this week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/mi5-warned-thatcher-over-abuse-allegations-against-mp-1.2294673

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/westminster-child-abuse-allegations-mp-with-a-penchant-for-small-boys-gave-his-word-he-was-not-a-paedophile-newly-discovered-documents-show-10408985.html

GCHQ looking for more powers to listen in to MPs communications.

I doubt child protection is anything to do with it.

The expression "penchant for young boys" gives the impression that paedophilia, in British government circles, was viewed as a slight eccentricity not to be bothered about.

pluralist
24-07-2015, 04:36 PM
The expression "penchant for young boys" gives the impression that paedophilia, in British government circles, was viewed as a slight eccentricity not to be bothered about.

Indeed. I do think that boarding school culture has a lot to do with normalising abuse in establishment circles in UK.

morticia
24-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Indeed. I do think that boarding school culture has a lot to do with normalising abuse in establishment circles in UK.

You aren't' the only one to think that.

From four weddings and a funeral;

"Went to public school. They buggered me senseless. Taught me an awful lot about life"

If it's seen as a jokey rite of passage, one isn't going to put one's peer group in clink for that, is one??

What's worse, those boarding schools are the preserve of a wealthy elite who are happily trying to pull up all ladders of social mobility such that the "great unwashed" don't get their grubby paws on the hallowed levers of power.

Of course, the average non-public school attendee is as horrified by paedophilia as you or I. But under a legal system still founded on a hereditary monarchy, where does meritocracy stand?? The schools system, even the State one, allows soaring property prices to determine who lives in the catchment areas of schools with good Ofsted reports. As someone wrote in the Guardian about 10 years ago, that system is an oligarchy masquerading as free education for all. However, lotteries for school places have been so vociferously resisted by the well off that the idea has been largely abandoned.

Largely speaking, normal people don't run things. Not over there. Especially not under the Tories.

Although in fairness, the paedophilia seems to be spread across the political spectrum over there to some extent.

pluralist
25-07-2015, 08:47 PM
What's worse, those boarding schools are the preserve of a wealthy elite who are happily trying to pull up all ladders of social mobility such that the "great unwashed" don't get their grubby paws on the hallowed levers of power.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKyZgYGWsAAIouo.png

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6uufBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=gyles+brandreth+breaking+the+code&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAGoVChMIse2ujo_3xgIVgboUCh2-0QQM#v=onepage&q=%22morrison%22%20%22cambridge%22&f=false

morticia
29-07-2015, 08:36 PM
Well, well, the domestic press has finally looked beyond the Irish Water fiasco and noticed what's going on across the water.

So they discovered these documents after the enquiry had concluded there was no evidence of a cover up....you couldn't make it up. And apparently extra docs are destroying public confidence in the enquiry...well, they would, wouldn't they, if the enquiry didn't find them?

Oh yes, and how to check if a suspect MP is a paedophile or not?? Ask him and take the negative response at face value.

Honestly, Carry On Investigation could do a better effing job.

New files show how UK officials covered up sex abuse by MPs

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/new-files-show-how-uk-officials-covered-up-sex-abuse-by-mps-31397804.html

pluralist
29-07-2015, 09:00 PM
Well, well, the domestic press has finally looked beyond the Irish Water fiasco and noticed what's going on across the water.

So they discovered these documents after the enquiry had concluded there was no evidence of a cover up....you couldn't make it up. And apparently extra docs are destroying public confidence in the enquiry...well, they would, wouldn't they, if the enquiry didn't find them?

The files were 'discovered' the day after Leon Brittan's death....and this fact was only 'released' to the media - and interested politicians, the public, victims etc - a few days after the start of Parliament's summer recess.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/file-linked-to-child-abuse-surfaced-the-day-after-leon-brittan-died.5589?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1437807821

And we don't even have the files as such, just their titles according to the "Sir Humphreys" filing system.

Can you see what it is yet? Looks like a more-or-less planned process of 'limited hangout'(*) disclosure to me....now, where's me tin foil hat....

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

Edit: given the Kincora references in relation to one of the politicians, if I wanted to be really conspiratorial I could venture a more optimistic theory that there are 'white hats' within Whitehall who carefully timed the release to embarass the Home Office into including Kincora & Northern Ireland in the Goddard inquiry...who knows.

morticia
29-07-2015, 09:21 PM
Needless to say; sure, yes, I agree, they're obviously still covering up shedloads of stuff. National security and the reputation of Westminster are obviously still far more important than child safety.

To that lot, everything is a commodity to be bought and sold. While snorting columbian marching powder off the assets of a lady of negotiable affection, while wearing what looks like a red leather bra, of course.

Although far be it from me to judge that particular lord of the realm; at least that particular prozzie was over-age.

God owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology....

pluralist
30-07-2015, 12:20 AM
Needless to say; sure, yes, I agree, they're obviously still covering up shedloads of stuff. National security and the reputation of Westminster are obviously still far more important than child safety.

To that lot, everything is a commodity to be bought and sold. While snorting columbian marching powder off the assets of a lady of negotiable affection, while wearing what looks like a red leather bra, of course.

Although far be it from me to judge that particular lord of the realm; at least that particular prozzie was over-age.

God owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology....

I think or hope that most people are clear that activities between consenting adults, even if technical breaches of the law are committed, are in a completely different moral universe to child rape.

There are, granted, some grey areas - for example, in the UK, the difference between the age of consent for hetero and homo sex that pertained for a few years.

morticia
30-07-2015, 05:33 AM
Well, of course. I'm still not very impressed with the fact the aforementioned peer was well known to boast about adultery, though, and creating a market for cocaine is a whole alternative moral cess pit.

But you are right, it is in a different immoral universe from child rape.

Aargh.

pluralist
30-07-2015, 05:27 PM
Meanwhile in the background....this blogger does a good job summarising the issues around the Ben Fellows trial on allegations he perverted the course of justice by making a false complaint in relation to former minister Ken Clarke. Fellows was acquitted today...



by gojam | July 30, 2015 · 3:49 pm
↓ Jump to Comments
Ben Fellows Found Not Guilty

Untitled

Ben Fellows has been found ‘Not Guilty’ of Perverting the Course of Justice

What a mess !

I don’t think this will be the end of this saga and it has now opened a very nasty can of worms.

https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/30/ben-fellows-found-not-guilty/

Dr. FIVE
31-07-2015, 02:02 AM
Good overview here

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster70/lob70-child-abuse-network.pdf

Frankie Lee
02-08-2015, 08:28 PM
Cilla Black dead. She had a poor choice of friends.

morticia
03-08-2015, 04:18 PM
Just when I think it REALLY CANNOT get any worse; it does.

I mean, this is the equivalent, hypothetically, of the Pope du jour being implicated in a child sex scandal. Say what you like about the Church, it never got that bad, AFAIK.


Police handling of 'child sex abuse claim' against former British Prime Minister Ted Health to be probed http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/police-handling-of-child-sex-abuse-claim-against-former-british-prime-minister-ted-health-to-be-probed-31423548.html

pluralist
03-08-2015, 04:33 PM
^ Morticia,

I am guessing you have never looked at the conspiracy theory/conspiraloon blogosphere, Heath's name has been bouncing round for years without anything definitive ever been proven. Personally I don't know if there's much in the rumours about Heath. He always seemed strangely asexual to me (then again, I would have said that about Savile at one time too).

The rumours about Heath got a new lease of life from 2008 onwards, when it was publicly revealed that a notorious orphanage (Haut de la Garenne) on the island of Jersey was under investigation - seemingly, Heath had visited the island on several occasions and moored his yacht at Gorey, not far from Haut de la Garenne.

One thing I am reasonably confident of, the claims that Heath was blackmailed to bring the UK into the EEC are b.s. - he was a true believer in the European project. There was no need for anyone to blackmail him into support for it.

morticia
03-08-2015, 05:26 PM
I presume however, that the Bould Dinny wouldn't really want inaccuracies of that sort being published in his quality (cough) newspaper if there wasn't sufficient evidence??

pluralist
03-08-2015, 05:46 PM
I presume however, that the Bould Dinny wouldn't really want inaccuracies of that sort being published in his quality (cough) newspaper if there wasn't sufficient evidence??

Wouldn't read too much into that tbh, I think the Independent has an arrangement whereby it reproduces from the wires or certain UK sources.

Telegraph are covering the story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11780308/Sir-Edward-Heath-child-sex-abuse-claim-Wiltshire-Police-faces-investigation.html

morticia
03-08-2015, 08:16 PM
Surely the Torygraph, of all papers, wouldn't be covering that if they weren't on relatively solid ground?

Edit: RTE is covering this now, too. The British Establishment appear to be about to break new ground in terms of making the child abuse management protocols of the IRA and the RC church look good by comparison.

I'm not sure even I thought that was actually possible....

pluralist
03-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Surely the Torygraph, of all papers, wouldn't be covering that if they weren't on relatively solid ground?

I don't think anyone is challenging that there is an IPCC investigation and that apparently an allegation has been made. That is in itself newsworthy, as we are talking about a former Prime Minister here.

What I would question is why this is coming up now, ten years after his death, and, for that matter, three years after the Savile exposures. I can't help but feel that it suits certain parties - including the eurosceptic Telegraph.