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DCon
16-12-2012, 12:14 PM
According to recent opinion polls


The UK Independence Party has surged to a record poll rating, knocking the Liberal Democrats into fourth place.

The ComRes poll for The Independent on Sunday and the Sunday Mirror put UKIP on 14% - a six-point gain on last month and the party's highest rating in a ComRes poll.

Two other polls in Sunday newspapers - the Observer’s Opinium and the Mail On Sunday Survation - also put UKIP at 14%.

The findings will alarm Tory MPs who fear the party is haemorrhaging support over issues such as Europe, the economy and its support for gay marriage.

Farrage was interviewed by Sky and the interview is on the below link

http://news.sky.com/story/1026043/ukip-now-the-uks-third-largest-party

Baron von Biffo
16-12-2012, 12:20 PM
At least one PW member will be thrilled.

Holly
16-12-2012, 04:34 PM
It's only a poll and since the UKIP do not have a single MP it is not credible to describe them as a stronger party in Westminster than the DUP or SDLP.

fluffybiscuits
16-12-2012, 05:17 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/15/nigel-farage-ukip-anti-gay-groups

Gay rights are going to suffer a major setback if these get anywhere in power. In what is reminiscent of other parties aligning themselves with far right groups, UKIP has been linked to far right groups that have been critical of homosexuality with links to far right groups. These groups are located in Italy, Poland and other countries where there is a strong Catholic agenda against gay people. One gay MEP left the party over the issues .


The independent gay MEP Nikki Sinclaire, who was expelled from Ukip for refusing to sit with Northern League colleagues in the European parliament, told the Observer that Ukip was still "without a doubt homophobic".

Dr. FIVE
08-01-2013, 09:40 PM
Chair of UKIP's youth wing removed

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAHr2HPCcAAD8E2.png:large

lol

fluffybiscuits
13-01-2013, 10:29 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-of-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879

Some of their members think that gays are paedos..... :rolleyes:

RahenyFG II
13-01-2013, 10:46 PM
2 years now to a UK general election. I wonder will the Liberal Democrats do as bad as the polls have been saying. It's hard being the junior partner in a coalition government. Labour over here might want to keep a close eye on the Lib Dem's result in 2015 should FG and LAB go all the way to 2016.

Simonsays
13-01-2013, 11:47 PM
With Britain's first past the post system, poll results over who come in third and below are effectively irrelevant. They could get 25% and still not win a single seat. Remember what happened to the SDP-Liberal Alliance. Despite a following far greater than UKIP right now they won damn all seats.

All a good UKIP showing would do would be to split the right of centre vote in key constituencies and so deliver a sizeable Labour majority. That is what happened in the 1980s when the split anti-Thatcher vote between the SDP-Liberal Alliance and Labour. Thatcher won nearly 400 seats. Labour won 209 on 27.6%. The SDP-Liberal Alliance won 25.4% yet only got 23 seats.

That is what happens to the third placed party under a non-proportional system.

Slim Buddha
14-01-2013, 05:59 AM
2 years now to a UK general election. I wonder will the Liberal Democrats do as bad as the polls have been saying. It's hard being the junior partner in a coalition government. Labour over here might want to keep a close eye on the Lib Dem's result in 2015 should FG and LAB go all the way to 2016.


It depends on the nature of the coalition. The PD´s managed to implement their economic policy for 7 years between 1997 and 2004 because one of their own, ideologically, was in situ as Finance Minister. Yet by 2007 they were gone, albeit with the former leader entrenched in the Health Ministry destroying the last vestiges of a health service we once had.

fluffybiscuits
14-01-2013, 09:38 AM
With Britain's first past the post system, poll results over who come in third and below are effectively irrelevant. They could get 25% and still not win a single seat. Remember what happened to the SDP-Liberal Alliance. Despite a following far greater than UKIP right now they won damn all seats.

All a good UKIP showing would do would be to split the right of centre vote in key constituencies and so deliver a sizeable Labour majority. That is what happened in the 1980s when the split anti-Thatcher vote between the SDP-Liberal Alliance and Labour. Thatcher won nearly 400 seats. Labour won 209 on 27.6%. The SDP-Liberal Alliance won 25.4% yet only got 23 seats.

That is what happens to the third placed party under a non-proportional system.

Most of those flocking to the UKIP are disenfranchised Tory voters as they figure the UKIP is what the Tories should be. UKIP are against large immigration, gay marriage and sit comfortably with the older conservative demographic in Britian. Good ship Britian is sailing towards an economic whirlpool and Cap'n Cameron and his sidekick Clegg are in need of a lighthouse.

Slim Buddha
14-01-2013, 11:39 AM
Most of those flocking to the UKIP are disenfranchised Tory voters as they figure the UKIP is what the Tories should be. UKIP are against large immigration, gay marriage and sit comfortably with the older conservative demographic in Britian. Good ship Britian is sailing towards an economic whirlpool and Cap'n Cameron and his sidekick Clegg are in need of a lighthouse.

Britain is screwed and "Call me Dave" seems to be unaware of the storm the UK economy is sailing into right now.

The strange thing about UKIP is that a lot of what Farage says makes a lot of sense and, as a party spokesman, he is very good and very convincing. Although, many of UKIP's non-EU related policies are a bit "out there", the focus they have on the EU and its myriad ills means that, for many in the UK, UKIP is a real alternative to the parties who endorse the EU, a failing institution in the eyes of many.

fluffybiscuits
14-01-2013, 11:57 AM
Britain is screwed and "Call me Dave" seems to be unaware of the storm the UK economy is sailing into right now.

The strange thing about UKIP is that a lot of what Farage says makes a lot of sense and, as a party spokesman, he is very good and very convincing. Although, many of UKIP's non-EU related policies are a bit "out there", the focus they have on the EU and its myriad ills means that, for many in the UK, UKIP is a real alternative to the parties who endorse the EU, a failing institution in the eyes of many.

Its pure populism though. A good orator can attract the masses but then when they do get the masses what happens!

Slim Buddha
14-01-2013, 01:21 PM
Its pure populism though. A good orator can attract the masses but then when they do get the masses what happens!

Perhaps, but Farage makes a persuasive case for the return to nation states and the stopping of the "rampant federalism" of the EU.

Had we not been in the Euro, we could have raised interest rates to a level necessary to cool down the economy when it was getting out of control. But raising interest rates was not an option when we joined the Euro. We were at a polar opposite point in the economic cycle to Germany, for whom low interest rates were necessary. Low interest rates prevailed and our economy got so out of kilter, eventually 30% of it was made up of the construction industry. Our political leaders were so economically illiterate that they did not think that this was a problem and consequently did nothing to stop the negative effects of low interest rates. The illiteracy and incompetence of our politicians, the greed of the construction industry and the greed and ineptitude of our banking sector vastly compounded the basic problem: interest rates to suit the German economy.

So in Farage's world, democratically elected nation states with the power to regulate properly their own economies and trading with each other, as first envisaged by the "Common Market" is infinitely preferable to an unelected elite like Barroso and van Rompuy using every trick in the book to circumvent the democratic wishes of the peoples of Europe to drive a federalist agenda.

fluffybiscuits
14-01-2013, 01:58 PM
Perhaps, but Farage makes a persuasive case for the return to nation states and the stopping of the "rampant federalism" of the EU.

Had we not been in the Euro, we could have raised interest rates to a level necessary to cool down the economy when it was getting out of control. But raising interest rates was not an option when we joined the Euro. We were at a polar opposite point in the economic cycle to Germany, for whom low interest rates were necessary. Low interest rates prevailed and our economy got so out of kilter, eventually 30% of it was made up of the construction industry. Our political leaders were so economically illiterate that they did not think that this was a problem and consequently did nothing to stop the negative effects of low interest rates. The illiteracy and incompetence of our politicians, the greed of the construction industry and the greed and ineptitude of our banking sector vastly compounded the basic problem: interest rates to suit the German economy.

So in Farage's world, democratically elected nation states with the power to regulate properly their own economies and trading with each other, as first envisaged by the "Common Market" is infinitely preferable to an unelected elite like Barroso and van Rompuy using every trick in the book to circumvent the democratic wishes of the peoples of Europe to drive a federalist agenda.

Most of this was a spin also put out by the Tories as well, it was just a little less tempered in terms of what they said and how they said it. The Tories are capitalising on the anti EU sentiment sweeping (rightly or wrongly) in the anglophone countries of Europe and is taking the opportunity to garner a few votes (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/944e76b4-5e28-11e2-a771-00144feab49a.html#axzz2HxhdI56d) . Farrage sees this as an opportunity to hop on the bandwagon, whether he has a good point or not, its still bandwagoning IMO. He is riding on the coat tails of Cameron.

Slim Buddha
14-01-2013, 02:12 PM
Most of this was a spin also put out by the Tories as well, it was just a little less tempered in terms of what they said and how they said it. The Tories are capitalising on the anti EU sentiment sweeping (rightly or wrongly) in the anglophone countries of Europe and is taking the opportunity to garner a few votes (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/944e76b4-5e28-11e2-a771-00144feab49a.html#axzz2HxhdI56d) . Farrage sees this as an opportunity to hop on the bandwagon, whether he has a good point or not, its still bandwagoning IMO. He is riding on the coat tails of Cameron.

I think it is the other way around. Farage has been at this longer than Cameron. Cameron is trying to appease the hard right in his own party (Redwood, Cash and the like) by floating the idea of a referendum.

Farage is always careful to say he is a good European, that his wife is German etc. But it is not just in Britain that the anti-EU sentiment is to be found. Merkel realises that in this election year, anti-EU sentiment in Germany itself is the highest it has been for a very long time.

One thing is for sure. The days of Ireland being a substantial net beneficiary in the EU are gone forever.

ruserious
14-01-2013, 04:23 PM
It'll probably be Labour in Government next, perhaps with the LibDems in a coalition. But RedEd is just such a bore. Not PM standard by any means.

DCon
02-05-2013, 11:38 PM
Labour have won a by election in South Shields

UKIP came second, and got more than twice the Torie vote. Tories were third.

Lib Dems lost their Deposit

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/5/3/235889/default/v1/cegrab-20130503-002335-319-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1086285/labour-wins-south-shields-by-election

Apjp
03-05-2013, 12:15 AM
Now we know why Cameron was so anxious to keep their 19th century voting system.

Kev Bar
03-05-2013, 01:23 AM
Johnny McGuirk is coming in his pants

jmcc
03-05-2013, 05:19 AM
Labour have won a by election in South Shields

UKIP came second, and got more than twice the Torie vote. Tories were third.

Lib Dems lost their DepositThe Lib Dems seem to be on track to the the UK version of the Irish Labour party. The full results of all seats are not in yet but it should really upset the Tories. At first glance, there's a Tweedledumb/Tweedledumber dynamic but the big (early) change is that the gains of the Others (UKIP is included in Others) is greater than that of Labour.

If the Lib Dems get obliterated, it may encourage the Labour people here to move against their Stickie management. :)

Regards...jmcc

jmcc
03-05-2013, 05:21 AM
It'll probably be Labour in Government next, perhaps with the LibDems in a coalition. But RedEd is just such a bore. Not PM standard by any means.Not so sure. The Lib Dems might not have sufficient numbers and despite Labour gains, UKIP gains in the locals might be an indication of the start of some long term trouble for Labour.

Regards...jmcc

DCon
03-05-2013, 09:32 PM
UKIP all over the British Press tomorrow

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJXwH6HCQAANxj9.jpg

Kev Bar
03-05-2013, 09:56 PM
Ah sweet mother of jesus.
But that kettle has been long on the boil.
Only a matter of time before slime made tea.
Anyhow let's shout out
https://soundcloud.com/kevbar/de-toqueville-came-to-tea-neo
If only to drown out Ganley-like glee

Slim Buddha
04-05-2013, 04:36 AM
Now we know why Cameron was so anxious to keep their 19th century voting system.

And by keeping the fundamentally anti-democratic voting system, it will be still extremely difficult for UKIP to gain a foothold in the House of Commons. UKIP do not have a geographical concentration of voters, they do not have a class-based concentration of voters and the fact that they took an almost equal proportion of votes percentage-wise from the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems suggests that the vote is soft. If this vote was primarily based on policies, the losses to the Tories would have been much greater but it seems the voters wanted to give them all a good kicking and voting UKIP was a way of doing that.
Transferring these figures to a general election setting, UKIP would probably get a lot of second places over a wide geographical spread. And in UK, second gets you nothing apart from your deposit back.

C. Flower
04-05-2013, 06:47 AM
Saw a figure of 69% not having voted. Can this possibly be correct ? This surely must be a dysfunctional kind of democracy ?

Slim Buddha
04-05-2013, 06:54 AM
Saw a figure of 69% not having voted. Can this possibly be correct ? This surely must be a dysfunctional kind of democracy ?

Yes, 31% turnout. And FPTP is such an anti-democratic voting system, one can really question how representative of general public opinion this actually is. But if you do not vote, your opinion counts for nothing so the 69% have only themselves to blame.

C. Flower
04-05-2013, 07:24 AM
Yes, 31% turnout. And FPTP is such an anti-democratic voting system, one can really question how representative of general public opinion this actually is. But if you do not vote, your opinion counts for nothing so the 69% have only themselves to blame.

I suppose people don't put the same weight on local and bye-elections as they would on a General Election, quite rationally.
There is nothing like the same effect.

Baron von Biffo
04-05-2013, 10:06 AM
Yes, 31% turnout. And FPTP is such an anti-democratic voting system, one can really question how representative of general public opinion this actually is. But if you do not vote, your opinion counts for nothing so the 69% have only themselves to blame.

You're right of course on the subject of FPTP. It is undemocratic and very much inferior to our system.

As for how representative an election result is when there's a low turnout, I'd say it's as representative as if there's a 100% turnout. Those who don't vote (or in our system who don't vote the whole paper) give the voters the right to choose the government. To my mind it's lazy and foolish but it's a valid democratic choice.

C. Flower
04-05-2013, 10:11 AM
You're right of course on the subject of FPTP. It is undemocratic and very much inferior to our system.

As for how representative an election result is when there's a low turnout, I'd say it's as representative as if there's a 100% turnout. Those who don't vote (or in our system who don't vote the whole paper) give the voters the right to choose the government. To my mind it's lazy and foolish but it's a valid democratic choice.

I'm not sure that it is better. First past the post concentrates the mind no end. And at least you know what you are voting for. Our system more or less guarantees coalition governments. No one ever gets a chance to vote on the programme of a coalition, so there is a reduction in democracy in that respect.

Baron von Biffo
04-05-2013, 10:27 AM
I'm not sure that it is better. First past the post concentrates the mind no end. And at least you know what you are voting for. Our system more or less guarantees coalition governments. No one ever gets a chance to vote on the programme of a coalition, so there is a reduction in democracy in that respect.

That view accepts the current position whereby parliament is dominated by the executive to the extent that the legislature is irrelevant.

It would be better to change parliamentary procedure to give greater opportunities to non-cabinet members than to change the voting system so as to narrow choice.

morticia
04-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Saw a figure of 69% not having voted. Can this possibly be correct ? This surely must be a dysfunctional kind of democracy ?

I'm afraid one is lucky to get over 50% even in a GE in the UK. Most seats are usually safe for the party that holds them, thanks to many years of successful gerrymandering by both major parties to corral their fiefdoms. So 90% of constituencies don't change hands, meaning lazy complacent MPs and hordes of people who can't be @rsed to vote. My old constituency there would have elected a one legged dead donkey, providing the moribund ass sported a Labour rosette. But they rejected PR in a referendum owing to the fact that they all decided they didn't understand it, or rather refused to understand it, since all change is inherently A Bad Thing over there....gngngngh...

morticia
05-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Tories now in total meltdown according to ye Observer. The plan is to go back to the EU and ask for major concessions on contributions, rebates, immigration reform, you name it, and then put any concessions to the "great British public" via an in-out referendum. They seem to think they'll get a yes vote with a few concessions, thereby lancing the UKIP boil.

The most immediate problem with that cunning plan is that I don't see the Sprouts giving out too much in the way of concessions. I also don't see the British public suddenly doing a volte face and voting yes after years of mind numbing xenophobic propaganda courtesy of the Sun et al.

And as Tom McGurk points out in the SBP, just where precisely does that leave little old us??

Observer had cover pic of smiling Farage reading Private Eye, which had a horde of grinning clowns on the cover.

Ken Clarke is probably regretting calling UKIP clowns at this point....

Kev Bar
05-05-2013, 11:23 PM
He may regret it but he should not, he was right. Just the times. They have given birth to some sinister clowns. Not along does the organ bleat bigoted monkey it plays a tune sinister grinders find so attractive.
They want to laiissez faire us again and again.

morticia
06-05-2013, 08:01 AM
Indeed. However, the comment doesn't look like an electoral winner though, does it?

I think the UKs time as an EU member is almost up. And actually, should an Out referendum be passed, the Scots may well vote themselves out, and back into the EU. Then we have an NI identity crisis on our hands.

Brace yerselves, lads...

DCon
07-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Tory peer calls for UK exit of EU




Lord Lawson said it was pointless to try to improve terms on Britain’s EU membership ahead of a an in/out referendum in 2017 and that Mr Cameron has to resign himself to four years of “inconsequential” negotiation with his EU partners.

Lord Lawson – who voted for Britain to join the EU in 1975 – said he would be backing Britain’s exit in 2017.

His comments are likely to add pressure to the Prime Minister to offer concessions to the Tory right after the strong advances made by the United Kingdom Independence Party in the local elections last week.

Save the City!


“Not only do our interests increasingly differ from those of the eurozone members but, while never ‘at the heart of Europe’, we are now becoming increasingly marginalised as we are doomed to being consistently outvoted by the eurozone bloc.”

There were other gains too, he said, notably that Britain would no longer be subject to EU regulation and red tape which “imposes substantial economic costs on all member states”.

Removing Britain from the EU would also result in saving the City from an EU “frenzy of regulatory activism, of which the foolish and damaging financial transactions tax, imposed against strong UK opposition”.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10040506/Lord-Lawson-David-Cameron-must-lead-Britain-out-of-the-EU.html

morticia
07-05-2013, 09:33 PM
Ah, the usual selfless thinking by the elites there. "Save our cash cow from the Sprouts".

Mind you, the Europeans are being such idiots at the moment that I don't really blame them for wanting to leave and I'm kind of hoping they bring the whole edifice crashing down around their ears on the way out. Someone needs to destroy monetary union before European society either goes up in flames, re-elects the fascists or both.

TotalMayhem
07-05-2013, 09:38 PM
I'm kind of hoping they bring the whole edifice crashing down around their ears on the way out.

Morticia, praying for destruction and chaos? YOU???

Slim Buddha
08-05-2013, 04:20 AM
Tory peer calls for UK exit of EU



Save the City!





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10040506/Lord-Lawson-David-Cameron-must-lead-Britain-out-of-the-EU.html

Never underestimate Lawson´s ability for spotting a trend. Being constantly outvoted in Europe is a genuine threat. Eurovision proves him right.

DCon
08-05-2013, 06:38 AM
Seems the Lib Dems won't sanction a referendum


The Prime Minister said that his Coalition deal with the pro-European Liberal Democrats means the Government cannot introduce legislation paving the way for a vote on Europe after the next election.

Mr Cameron’s comments on legislation, in a private letter to Conservative MPs, come only days after he dropped a pre-election hint that he was prepared to consider the option.

He wrote: “I completely understand the serious case you make for legislation. You know, however, that this Government’s legislative programme is founded on the Coalition Agreement which did not include legislating in this Parliament for an In-Out referendum.

“For the Government to be able to bring forward the type of legislation you propose, we would require the agreement of our Coalition partners which, as things stand, is not forthcoming.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10042596/David-Cameron-I-cant-legislate-for-an-EU-referendum.html

RahenyFG II
08-05-2013, 04:56 PM
Breaking into Westminister in 2015 will be tough for UKIP with the First Past The Post system.

morticia
08-05-2013, 07:57 PM
Seems the Lib Dems won't sanction a referendum




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10042596/David-Cameron-I-cant-legislate-for-an-EU-referendum.html

How convenient, Dave!

Methinks it may shortly be collapsing coalition time..

morticia
08-05-2013, 07:59 PM
Breaking into Westminister in 2015 will be tough for UKIP with the First Past The Post system.

Should be...but, after 5 years of austerity and all of the mainstream parties being to blame for some of it...I don't know. I think the vote will be split badly... They'll get 10-20 seats, I'd guess. More out of protest vote than anything else.

RahenyFG II
08-05-2013, 09:29 PM
Should be...but, after 5 years of austerity and all of the mainstream parties being to blame for some of it...I don't know. I think the vote will be split badly... They'll get 10-20 seats, I'd guess. More out of protest vote than anything else.

And if that's the case they'll have probably got robbed of more seats due to the unfairness of FPTP. Liberals in 1983 is the best example. They finished on 22% to Labour on 25% yet somehow managed to end up with 200 seats less than Labour.

DCon
08-05-2013, 10:55 PM
coalition running out of steam?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJxxH3tCEAA42i2.jpg

DCon
11-05-2013, 03:00 PM
Tory MP's are arranging a vote on a referendum


Eurosceptic Conservative MPs are trying to engineer a Commons vote next week on an EU referendum before 2015.

They have tabled an amendment to the motion welcoming the Queen's Speech, expressing regret that it did not include a referendum.

Even if it was supported by a majority of MPs, it would not force the government to table a bill to bring in a referendum.

But Mr Baron said: "It would send a clear message that we are not going away and that there is a large body of opinion inside and outside this place that believes that legislation is right for a EU referendum."


At a conference in London on Thursday, Mr Cameron said it was "logical, sensible, practical" to first seek to renegotiate the terms of the UK's relationship with the EU before holding a referendum after the 2015 general election.


And on Thursday, another former Chancellor, Lord Lamont, told BBC Radio 4's World At One programme: "I basically agree with Nigel Lawson, with one reservation.

"I think that the economic advantages of the EU are vastly over-stated. I think we could manage on our own, as Switzerland - much more integrated with the EU than we are - does.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22470021

fluffybiscuits
11-05-2013, 03:41 PM
Should be...but, after 5 years of austerity and all of the mainstream parties being to blame for some of it...I don't know. I think the vote will be split badly... They'll get 10-20 seats, I'd guess. More out of protest vote than anything else.

Read an opinion poll they are going to over take the Lib Dems. UKIP and Torys wouldnt make all the strange bedfellows. UKIP are like a more extreme version of the Tories . Based on their policies they could attract a lot of disenfranchised Tory voters on issues like immigration and human rights.

Ed Milliband though seems to think the same as me..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/08/queens-speech-miliband-cameron-ukip

DCon
13-05-2013, 08:41 AM
The UKIP effect is doing a great job of destroying the tories


Responding to their intervention, the former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind accused Conservatives pushing for an amendment to the motion welcoming the Queen's speech that laments the absence of an in/out referendum on EU membership of "showing very poor judgment", warning them that they were in danger of losing the party the next election.

"What they're doing is putting the prime minister in an impossible situation," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "He cannot simply vote for this amendment because it would split the coalition right down the middle. But at the same time, the motion cannot win because there is not a parliamentary majority for it.

"This amendment isn't going to get carried. So all those supporting it will have achieved is they will have split their own party, they will, as you have seen, cast questions over the prime minister's authority and indirectly, unintentionally, they will be helping the Labour party's prospects at the next election.

Boris says the EU is not at fault anyway. Points the finger firmly at Britain


"If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by 'Bwussels', but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure," Johnson wrote in his Daily Telegraph column.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/13/cracks-appear-tory-eu-referendum?CMP=twt_fd

DCon
13-05-2013, 08:57 PM
Cammie baby is guaranteein g a referendum


David Cameron is to publish a draft bill that will guarantee the British public an in-out EU referendum.

The Prime Minister is to seize the initiative amid internecine squabbling within the Conservative party and propose laws that will pave the way for a vote on whether Britain should remain in the EU.

The draft bill is to be published tomorrow, the day ahead of an amendment to the Queen's Speech expressing "regret" that an EU referendum was not on the agenda.

http://news.sky.com/story/1090503/cameron-to-publish-in-out-eu-referendum-bill

Binn Beal
13-05-2013, 09:14 PM
His Bill proposes a referendum by 2017. Kicking the can that far down the road won't save him.

Buddha
13-05-2013, 09:15 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/15/nigel-farage-ukip-anti-gay-groups

Gay rights are going to suffer a major setback if these get anywhere in power. In what is reminiscent of other parties aligning themselves with far right groups, UKIP has been linked to far right groups that have been critical of homosexuality with links to far right groups. These groups are located in Italy, Poland and other countries where there is a strong Catholic agenda against gay people. One gay MEP left the party over the issues .

UKIP is getting huge media coverage lately, and although I love you dearly fluffy, I believe that a lot of people are voting for them not because of their attitude to Gays and Lesbians but rather the fear that hits people when huge numbers of non-Brits, in our case, non-Irish are on the scene at the same time as the Capitalist System has collapsed, again. People blame the new-comers for everything from no jobs to the bloody weather. And then we have got to the stage where one is not allowed to say one bad word against the newcomers because then one is RACIST.

We are asking for a back-lash by our reaction to people's fears and I must admit at times, when I walk around the shops or down a certain street here in Castlebar and I only hear foreign accents, and the people who are speaking English have English accents I say a few words meself and they are not printable but they would be understood in any language.

Any person or group of people who denigrate people because of their private sex lives are perverts in my opinion.

fluffybiscuits
13-05-2013, 10:57 PM
UKIP is getting huge media coverage lately, and although I love you dearly fluffy, I believe that a lot of people are voting for them not because of their attitude to Gays and Lesbians but rather the fear that hits people when huge numbers of non-Brits, in our case, non-Irish are on the scene at the same time as the Capitalist System has collapsed, again. People blame the new-comers for everything from no jobs to the bloody weather. And then we have got to the stage where one is not allowed to say one bad word against the newcomers because then one is RACIST.

We are asking for a back-lash by our reaction to people's fears and I must admit at times, when I walk around the shops or down a certain street here in Castlebar and I only hear foreign accents, and the people who are speaking English have English accents I say a few words meself and they are not printable but they would be understood in any language.

Any person or group of people who denigrate people because of their private sex lives are perverts in my opinion.

Sure look what came out about one of their councillors in the last few hours!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-22516724

MPB
13-05-2013, 11:13 PM
The reason people are anti Europe is simlpe, yet people are afraid to acknowledge it.

We don,t want to be run by Germans. We don,t trust them.

They caused 2 world wars and were forgiven and bailed out, yet they refuse to forgive or bailout anybody else.

Germany only exists because of the benevolance of the rest of us, yet it refuses to return the favour.

The EU is not a Union. It is a political solution to letting Germany control Europe.

In this argument I am on the side of the Brits. Get out and get out quick.

fluffybiscuits
13-05-2013, 11:15 PM
The reason people are anti Europe is simlpe, yet people are afraid to acknowledge it.

We don,t want to be run by Germans. We don,t trust them.

They caused 2 world wars and were forgiven and bailed out, yet they refuse to forgive or bailout anybody else.

Germany only exists because of the benevolance of the rest of us, yet it refuses to return the favour.

The EU is not a Union. It is a political solution to letting Germany control Europe.

In this argument I am on the side of the Brits. Get out and get out quick.

Meanwhile back in the real world....

disability student
13-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Indeed :D

I am on the side of the Brits too and agree with MPB's comments.

Kev Bar
13-05-2013, 11:40 PM
UKIP and the gaping womb.

No wonder Ganley is dodging killer trees to return triumphant.

Remember Deco boasted the last time round that he got enough votes to fill Croke Park.

Sadly we could not call in an air strike that day.

DCon
14-05-2013, 07:12 AM
A France Independence Party may not be far off



The eurozone debt crisis and its economic fallout have sharply reduced French support for the EU, with 77 per cent believing European economic integration has been bad for France’s economy, according to a survey.

The study by the Pew Research Centre found that only 41 per cent of French respondents had a favourable opinion of the EU, down from 60 per cent in 2012. Even in eurosceptic Britain, more people (43 per cent) have a favourable view.


“No European country is becoming more dispirited and disillusioned faster than France,” concludes the Pew study, which polled some 8,000 respondent in eight EU countries.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ce21f58e-bbe6-11e2-a4b4-00144feab7de.html#axzz2TFTa12FF

MPB
14-05-2013, 07:29 AM
Go on bright lad, elaborate.

I am looking forward to this.

fluffybiscuits
14-05-2013, 09:54 AM
Go on bright lad, elaborate.

I am looking forward to this.

Your whole post was filled with sweeping generalisations. We do not trust the German government, the German people are a complete different kettle of fish. Then you invoked Godwins law and mentioned the war (doesnt take long on this site) in another massive calamity. The EU is an institution which contains people whom have the same ideals as you and I yet are being run by bureaucrats whose sole motiviation for their jobs is gold plated pensions, huge expenses and giving the money to their buddies in banking and finance. A lot of good has come out of the EU in recent years, we saw our economy improve, freedom of movement and it reinforced bonds between neighbours on a social level.

Anymore sweeping generalisations you care to make? :rolleyes:

MPB
14-05-2013, 01:04 PM
One cannot have serious debate on the EU without mentioning the 2 World Wars. The Treaty of Rome was a direct response to WW2.

European Politics as it exists is a direct consequence of both World Wars.

Just as our politics still to this day is outlined by the outcome of the Civil War 90 years ago, the politics of Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe is outlined by the fallout from WW1 and 2.

Angela Merkel herself grew up in the Soviet Union controlled East Germany.

To refuse to accept this blindingly obvious fact is pure nonsense. Like most people in this country we just refuse to acknowledge the fact that Europe is not a country or a United States and never will be. We are a group of very different countries, with different languages, different cultures, different economies and very different histories.

There is nothing wrong with being different and differances are no bar to friendships and relationships.

The European project was a good idea when it was an EEC.

fluffybiscuits
14-05-2013, 01:10 PM
One cannot have serious debate on the EU without mentioning the 2 World Wars. The Treaty of Rome was a direct response to WW2.

European Politics as it exists is a direct consequence of both World Wars.

Just as our politics still to this day is outlined by the outcome of the Civil War 90 years ago, the politics of Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe is outlined by the fallout from WW1 and 2.

Angela Merkel herself grew up in the Soviet Union controlled East Germany.

To refuse to accept this blindingly obvious fact is pure nonsense. Like most people in this country we just refuse to acknowledge the fact that Europe is not a country or a United States and never will be. We are a group of very different countries, with different languages, different cultures, different economies and very different histories.

There is nothing wrong with being different and differances are no bar to friendships and relationships.

The European project was a good idea when it was an EEC.

Sure why stop at World Wars, why dont we say Napoleon or even better the bronze age :rolleyes: Recognising that the EU came from the ashes of a post modern world war Europe is fair enough, a nod to the heritage but to infer it has some relevance today is pure nonsense, really is. Europe is of course differences but we should be looking for the commonalities in all our peoples, what binds us as a people and what does bind us? Class oppression, the attack on the working class by the financial elite - the bankers, the businessmen and the tax dodgers. This is like banging my head against a brick wall...

fluffybiscuits
14-05-2013, 01:11 PM
One cannot have serious debate on the EU without mentioning the 2 World Wars. The Treaty of Rome was a direct response to WW2.

European Politics as it exists is a direct consequence of both World Wars.

Just as our politics still to this day is outlined by the outcome of the Civil War 90 years ago, the politics of Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe is outlined by the fallout from WW1 and 2.

Angela Merkel herself grew up in the Soviet Union controlled East Germany.

To refuse to accept this blindingly obvious fact is pure nonsense. Like most people in this country we just refuse to acknowledge the fact that Europe is not a country or a United States and never will be. We are a group of very different countries, with different languages, different cultures, different economies and very different histories.

There is nothing wrong with being different and differances are no bar to friendships and relationships.

The European project was a good idea when it was an EEC.

Sure why stop at World Wars, why dont we say Napoleon or even better the bronze age :rolleyes: Recognising that the EU came from the ashes of a post modern world war Europe is fair enough, a nod to the heritage but to infer that a lot of that history, that it has some relevance today is pure nonsense, really is. Europe is of course differences but we should be looking for the commonalities in all our peoples, what binds us as a people and what does bind us? Class oppression, the attack on the working class by the financial elite - the bankers, the businessmen and the tax dodgers. This is like banging my head against a brick wall...

DCon
17-05-2013, 07:50 AM
Another win for UKIP


The UK Independence Party has tonight won another council seat in Britain after taking on Labour in its stronghold of Rawmarsh in Rotherham.

The results which came in moments ago declared that UKIP had won the seat by 104 votes, with Caven Vines (UKIP) beating Lisa Marie Wright (LAB).



http://www.thecommentator.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/448/content_screen_shot_2013-05-17_at_00_28_32.png

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3552/ukip_wins_rotherham_by_election

DCon
17-05-2013, 07:55 AM
Nige had a spot of bother in Scotland


Amateur footage shows Ukip leader Nigel Farage being forced to leave an Edinburgh pub under police escort after he was locked in to protect him from an angry mob of protesters.

The Ukip leader was left stranded in the middle of Edinburgh’s Royal Mile, surrounded by around 50 nationalists and socialists calling him a racist, while demanding that he: “Go home to England”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10063310/Ukip-leader-Nigel-Farage-flees-angry-Scottish-mob-in-police-van.html

DCon
18-05-2013, 07:28 PM
Tough Reading for the government parties. Combined 37%


Support for the UK Independence Party has reached a record 19% according to the latest opinion poll.

Labour was down three points to 35%, the Conservatives were down one to 29% and the Lib Dems were unchanged on 8%.

http://news.sky.com/story/1092748/ukip-scores-record-poll-high-of-19-percent

morticia
18-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Re the France Independence Party, don't le Front Nationale fill that particular niche?

DCon
30-05-2013, 07:53 AM
The EU playing into UKIP hands


The European Union is set to take Britain to court over benefits for migrants - setting the government on course for a battle with Brussels.

The European Commission has accused Britain of discriminating against EU nationals who have been living and working in the UK.

The Commission says tests applied to check if claimants are eligible for benefits are unfair.

It is expected to announce details of an "infraction" procedure against Britain, which would lead to a court case in Luxembourg.

The EU has a standard test, which is supposed to be applied by member states to determine a migrant's eligibility for welfare payments.

The UK applies an extra "right to reside" test, which the EU says is discriminatory and may have denied thousands of migrants access to benefits like child tax credit.

http://news.sky.com/story/1097256/eu-takes-uk-to-court-over-migrant-benefits

DCon
30-05-2013, 07:53 AM
The EU playing into UKIP hands


The European Union is set to take Britain to court over benefits for migrants - setting the government on course for a battle with Brussels.

The European Commission has accused Britain of discriminating against EU nationals who have been living and working in the UK.

The Commission says tests applied to check if claimants are eligible for benefits are unfair.

It is expected to announce details of an "infraction" procedure against Britain, which would lead to a court case in Luxembourg.

The EU has a standard test, which is supposed to be applied by member states to determine a migrant's eligibility for welfare payments.

The UK applies an extra "right to reside" test, which the EU says is discriminatory and may have denied thousands of migrants access to benefits like child tax credit.

http://news.sky.com/story/1097256/eu-takes-uk-to-court-over-migrant-benefits

fluffybiscuits
30-05-2013, 02:11 PM
http://order-order.com/2013/05/28/poll-ukip-heading-for-2014-victory/


David Ruffley has been bursting through his shirt to warn Dave he could face a leadership challenge if he doesn’t deal with UKIP in time for next year’s Euro elections, so these numbers won’t make for happy post-holiday reading for the PM. An OpenEurope/ComRes poll has UKIP topping the bill on 27% among those certain to vote in 2014, and still breaking the 20 point mark for the general election. The key number for Dave: two-fifths of Conservative voters from 2010 would vote UKIP in a European election if it were held tomorrow…

DCon
31-05-2013, 11:01 AM
man overboard


Steve Collins ‏@TradeDesk_Steve

Tory MP Patrick Mercer resigns the Conservative Whip .... does this mean he is defecting to UKIP ??.


Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 9m

Tory source speculates: "hear it's a cash for questions number, They've gone under cover. Resigning whip could be prelude to quitting seat."

fluffybiscuits
31-05-2013, 02:15 PM
Good analysis of what attracts extremists to the UKIP party

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/matthew-parris/8921021/why-ukip-is-a-party-of-extremists/

Ukippery as its called :D

The disenfranchised Tories, in particular Euroskeptics and anti Immigrationists have a new home...

fluffybiscuits
29-11-2013, 02:47 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10482141/Ukip-MEP-says-women-shouldnt-have-babies-if-they-want-to-get-to-the-top.html

Foot in mouth syndrome...

morticia
29-11-2013, 09:51 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10482141/Ukip-MEP-says-women-shouldnt-have-babies-if-they-want-to-get-to-the-top.html

Foot in mouth syndrome...

Under exactly which stones do they find these retro idiots?? Mind you, looking at working hours in this country, I have a horrible feeling he's the voice of a silent majority. There's also the pay gap...

fluffybiscuits
02-12-2013, 03:27 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/30/labour-lead-tories-cut-poll

They just cant die can they UKIP? They are now riding on the coat tails of a screwed up economy and the scare stories in the right wing press of "dem furddiners" syndrome. They have been obliterated in Scotland virtually. UKIP's surge in popularity is part of Europes swing to the right in times of economic depression, just like Germany at the start of the 30's....

morticia
02-12-2013, 08:14 PM
About right, Fluffy, sadly.

fluffybiscuits
02-12-2013, 09:51 PM
At least Alan Partridge approves...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/10487972/Alpha-Papa-DVD-Alan-Partridge-on-why-hes-grateful-to-Nigel-Farage.html




Are you a fan of Nigel Farage and UKIP?

I don’t think it’s appropriate to discuss politics in the run-up to Christmas. But suffice to say, on Christmas morn, I’ll be breakfasting on bacon, sausage and eggs rather than croissants and flaps of cold meat. We have one man to thank for that. And to suggest that him sharing initials with a violent far-right movement is anything other than coincidence is pure cattles--t.

ang
01-05-2014, 09:05 PM
Farage hit by egg on campaign trail -

http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=722&d=1398978212


Nigel Farage has accused the left of orchestrating a taxpayer-funded "storm of hatred" against Ukip, after he was egged by a protester and the party was hit by new allegations of racist language by its council candidates. Farage went on the campaign trail for the May elections on Thursday amid renewed signs that the party is struggling with its attempts to weed out "embarrassing Walter Mitty characters".

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/01/nigel-farage-egg-campaign-trail-ukip-candidates-accused-racism

PaddyJoe
01-05-2014, 09:48 PM
I though the Farage as a punk thing looked a bit dodgy...


http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/just-in-case-anyone-still-thinks-nigel-farage-was-a-punk-in

morticia
01-05-2014, 09:58 PM
Excellent aim, that egg thrower!

fluffybiscuits
14-05-2014, 08:14 PM
Farage hit by egg on campaign trail -

http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=722&d=1398978212



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/01/nigel-farage-egg-campaign-trail-ukip-candidates-accused-racism

Farrage puts egg on his own face a lot of the time.

Sniffing a chance of power UKIP will back Cameron in the event of Cameron not having a majority, an informal coalition

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/14/ukip-tories-nigel-farage-eu-referendum


Nigel Farage has indicated that Ukip would be prepared to help David Cameron survive as prime minister in a hung parliament if he delivers on his pledge to hold an in/out referendum on Britain's EU membership.

In a shift of tone by Farage, who has previously been wary of a deal with Cameron, the Ukip leader said that "of course" he would offer support to the Tories if the party guaranteed a referendum.

C. Flower
29-05-2014, 01:09 PM
Romania has launched an ad campaign re Farage...

471765618547752960

riposte
29-05-2014, 02:33 PM
Doesn't sound like sniffing for power to me.


"After the next election, if we find ourselves in the same position as Clegg did in 2010, we will have one priority. The people of this country have to have a full, fair and free referendum so we can decide whether we govern our own country or leave it to the people to make the rules," he said.

"It's not a coalition that interests me, but doing deals to achieve outcomes does. If David Cameron came to me and said: 'Nigel, could you help me to form a government so we can have a referendum?', of course I'd do it. Would I put the interests of the country above Ukip? Of course I would."

C. Flower
29-05-2014, 03:24 PM
Power or not, UKIP will pull the Tories even further to the right.

fluffybiscuits
29-05-2014, 09:29 PM
Power or not, UKIP will pull the Tories even further to the right.

Tory supporters anyways will be pulled to the right.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/29/ukip-voters-loyal-nigel-farage-2015-labour-tory


Ukip's loyalists are concerned less about the economy than immigration; 73% of them see immigration as the main problem facing Britain but only 27% of defectors think so.

Tory policies on immigration were never as strict as that of UKIP. Cameron in recent years announced he would cap immigration from places like Bulgaria, he never really addressed the nut case policies of the UKIP who are more extreme. UKIP are Tory extreme, most supporters of the Tories if you ask me would be more focused on the economic policies of the Tory govt.

riposte
29-05-2014, 09:38 PM
Power or not, UKIP will pull the Tories even further to the right.

I don't know much about the Tories being pulled to the right ..... but if UKIP can get the UK pulled out of the EU we might have a chance of getting the German jackboot off our own necks.

fluffybiscuits
29-05-2014, 09:45 PM
I don't know much about the Tories being pulled to the right ..... but if UKIP can get the UK pulled out of the EU we might have a chance of getting the German jackboot off our own necks.

You not placing much faith in the Shinners then?

riposte
29-05-2014, 09:54 PM
You not placing much faith in the Shinners then?


It is not Sinn Fein policy to pull out of the EU. That doesn't mean it won't happen. Anything could happen. There could be a 3rd World War.

C. Flower
30-05-2014, 08:54 AM
Tory supporters anyways will be pulled to the right.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/29/ukip-voters-loyal-nigel-farage-2015-labour-tory To make myself clearer, the Tory Party leadership will move further to the right in reaction to UKIPs election successes.


Tory policies on immigration were never as strict as that of UKIP. Cameron in recent years announced he would cap immigration from places like Bulgaria, he never really addressed the nut case policies of the UKIP who are more extreme. UKIP are Tory extreme, most supporters of the Tories if you ask me would be more focused on the economic policies of the Tory govt.

Scratch any Tory and you will find a racist. They are the main party of British Imperialism and killing the fuzzy wuzzies and stealing from them was how they got rich.

Ephilant
31-05-2014, 02:04 PM
Tsipras was asked if there was any truth in the rumours that the (SYRIZA, and Podemos) far left block would cooperate with the likes of UKIP on certain policies. His response was:
UKIP, Front National and Golden Dawn are monstrosities. They are the true spawn of austerity So, no chance...

Pearse Monnet
31-05-2014, 05:40 PM
Gay rights are going to suffer a major setback if these get anywhere in power

UKIP will never be in govt in Britain.

you're giving them more credit than they deserve.

the threat they hold is the loss of seats by the Big Three, and particularly the Tories.

Their increase in support will give weight to leading Euro-skeptics in the Tories and even those EU-critical voices in the Britsh Labour Party inside their own organisations.

For a while all this will amount to increased Little Englander rhetoric in the Tories. Eventually, the Tories will feel the necessity (or maybe are forced) to act on their rhetoric in some way.

There is no way that the City of London (the heart of British capital) would tolerate UKIP in government. And alas they call the shots, not the "oldest parliament in the world."

Pearse Monnet
31-05-2014, 05:53 PM
It is not Sinn Fein policy to pull out of the EU.

That's true.

I could not believe my ears (but a second or two passed and I thought i cannot really be surprised.)

On Monday past i was watching on BBC NI the coverage of the elections in the 6 Cos by Mark Carruthers. There was a number of political guests to-ing and fro-ing over the course of the afternoon on the show.

McGuinness was on, and when asked if there was a referendum on UK (sic) membership of the EU where would Sinn Fein stand? To which he replied Sinn Fein would campaign for a Yes vote. He added that European membership has been enormously beneficial to the people of Ireland.

Noted.

morticia
31-05-2014, 08:24 PM
I have to say, I'm kinda glad Marty ain't singing from the UKIP hymn sheet. The end result if SF were to hypothetically go for a NO and the UK were to leave and take us with them... Well, these two islands would be running the three legged race again with London dictating the pace. Which was sort of what SF was set up to end. Much better to at least blame the Unionists if that happens. More consistent.

Pearse Monnet
31-05-2014, 09:39 PM
ok

But I would have thought that Sinn Fein would be concerned about the inability of the people of this country to demonstrate their sovereignty. By being tied in to the EU north and south.

Ourselves alone ?

The EU is a bigger union than the British one we exited courtesy of the actions of the movement McG’s party takes its name from.

There was a time when Provisional Sinn Fein were vehemently again’ the “Europe thing”.

He’s making his party a hostage to fortune with saying they would campaign for the British State (inclusive of the 6 counties) staying in.

“singing from the UKIP hymn sheet”
I would hope UKIP would have nothing to do with the Shinners determining policy.

Just because UKIP is all about the British State pulling out, every other political party in Britain and in the north shouldn’t define themselves in relation to that, and certainly not an Irish party.

(I make the following point somewhat tongue-in-cheek . . . so I don’t want anyone jumping down my throat) Whatever might be said about the Stickies when they were “coming in from the cold” (i.e. giving up the gun and reformulating themselves as a electoral party) at least they had a Foreign Policy.

morticia
01-06-2014, 07:46 AM
Look, in a globalised world, we ourselves is ok, but ourselves alone won't work. Better to be part of a larger union of similarly small states and a few big ones, than to be running the three legged race with an increasingly resource poor UK. Marty has that right, I think. And given UKIP holding hands with some of Unionism's worst, I'd not blame SF for distancing themselves. I've some respect for McGuinness as well, one can say many things about him but idiot he ain't.

DCon
01-06-2014, 12:37 PM
Labour jumping on the bandwagon too




John Prescott in Sunday Mirror column joins 7 Labour MPs in calling on Labour to oppose EU freedom of movement



https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/473062291626532864

fluffybiscuits
02-06-2014, 08:56 PM
To make myself clearer, the Tory Party leadership will move further to the right in reaction to UKIPs election successes.



Scratch any Tory and you will find a racist. They are the main party of British Imperialism and killing the fuzzy wuzzies and stealing from them was how they got rich.

Been thinking about what you wrote and you may have a point. There is a by election coming up in Nottingham in Newark. The area is a Tory strong hold but headless Tory voters may be swayed by UKIPs poisonous propoganda (Goebbels would be proud of them). If it plays out that way then the Torys will take a massive hit. Cameron must be worried because he was in the constituency looking for votes.


UKIP will never be in govt in Britain.

you're giving them more credit than they deserve.

the threat they hold is the loss of seats by the Big Three, and particularly the Tories.

Their increase in support will give weight to leading Euro-skeptics in the Tories and even those EU-critical voices in the Britsh Labour Party inside their own organisations.

For a while all this will amount to increased Little Englander rhetoric in the Tories. Eventually, the Tories will feel the necessity (or maybe are forced) to act on their rhetoric in some way.

There is no way that the City of London (the heart of British capital) would tolerate UKIP in government. And alas they call the shots, not the "oldest parliament in the world."

Im not sure if I can agree with that. Europe has seen its biggest swing to the right since the end of World War two and the right is making massive gains. I think it in part it might be reactionary, the average voter is a little worried and becomes Little Englander for the term of a government. Right wing governments have the awful habit of being a la modefor a period of time but I thought it was only for a short period of time but time and time again they make inroads. NF were up 10% in some areas of France, Freedom Party in Austria etc. Im worried that it may be more than a passing trend...

morticia
02-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Nigel Farage was a commodities trader. I'm sure he'd be well capable of telling the City exactly what it wants to hear.

fluffybiscuits
03-06-2014, 08:56 PM
Nigel Farage was a commodities trader. I'm sure he'd be well capable of telling the City exactly what it wants to hear.

Leaving the EU would allow them to operate outside the confines of EU law ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/newark-byelection-bad-news-for-ukip-as-political-invasion-pays-off-for-conservatives-9480224.html

As mentioned above about Newark, a poll tells it all in the by election. So the Conservatives are in first position, UKIP are trailing behind and then just behind them is Labour and the Lib Dems have done what the Irish Labour have done ad they have practically collapsed. Those who were polled were voting for UKIP as a protest vote against the three main parties resulting in UKIPs spike in popularity. Cameron is worried and as I wrote yesterday, he is fearing that they could be over taken by UKIP ordering his MPs to canvass the area.

DCon
28-08-2014, 11:47 AM
Tory jumps ship and (somewhat honourably) reigns his seat to contest the by-election


Tory Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP and quit as MP for Clacton, saying he will contest the subsequent by-election for Nigel Farage's party.

If he wins the support of voters he will be the first elected UK Independence Party MP in the Commons.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-28967904

Echo Charlie
29-08-2014, 04:17 PM
According to UKIP`s treasurer Stuart Wheeler it is "odds on" that other MPs will follow Carswell. I must say I am not surprised, conservatives I know ( its my personal reach-out programme ) hate Cameron they really diss the guy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28979447

morticia
29-08-2014, 04:23 PM
Somewhat like Old Labour learned to hate Blair. English swerve to the right, here we come. I do hope wavering Scots are watching these developments with interest.




"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Pearse Monnet
29-08-2014, 06:35 PM
. . . . conservatives I know ( its my personal reach-out programme . . . .

lol I love that !
Welcome on-board I haven’t come across ya before.


Somewhat like Old Labour learned to hate Blair.

I don’t want to get too niggley-piggley with ya. But Old Labour Always hated him. The generation of Tony Benn, Arthur Scargill etc hated Blair’s game-show host persona as insincere.

Whereas everyone else learned to hate Blair over time especially after he dragged Britain into a war that could never be won.



I do hope wavering Scots are watching these developments with interest.

From chatting to people I don’t think the nationalists in Alba will pull off the referendum. I believe there should be a majority of Yes voters in the referendum but I don’t think there will be.

There is a considerable section of the Scottish electorate that is indifferent to the upcoming referendum on more autonomy. If they can be reached . . . . .

I may return to this on the “Scottish Independence” Thread a little closer to the day . . . but staying on topic. I think most Scottish people are looking at the growth of UKIP with a certain bemusement. It’s political passion expressing itself but in a very English way.

morticia
29-08-2014, 07:30 PM
UKIP should frighten them. As they are, they are democratically tied to a much larger Little Englander population that is increasingly leaning further and further right. Scotland should head for the exit while it has a once in a lifetime chance.




"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Donal Og
30-08-2014, 12:54 PM
[QUOTE=morticia;398519]UKIP should frighten them. As they are, they are democratically tied to a much larger Little Englander population that is increasingly leaning further and further right. Scotland should head for the exit while it has a once in a lifetime chance.

I agree entirely. A good friend in Edinburgh said a Tory win in the last election would be a godsend for the SNP. Which came to pass - and now UKIP. As Jim Sillars said the central paradox of UK politics is a Labour voting Scotland tied to a Tory England.

I think Devo Max would've sailed through. But the Tories cunningly kept it off the ballot paper. Problem is....the bleedin' recession and the Eurozone heading nowhere fast.

In short , it's hard to see the Yes side winning. Better Together have run a crap campaign ; they just let despair and unemployment sap the will of the Scots. Ochón!

DCon
31-08-2014, 08:34 PM
yikes

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/31/article-2738787-20ED5BAD00000578-85_634x891.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738787/Cameron-faces-Ukip-election-bloodbath-Party-set-win-Commons-seat-shock-poll-reveals-Farages-staggering-44-point-lead-Tories.html

morticia
31-08-2014, 09:12 PM
I told you so. It could be worse folks, we could live in England. I for one am so grateful I'm no longer a UK resident. Saw this coming a mile off. Welcome back to the 19th century.
Again, Scotland, I hope you're reading that. Now's the opportunity to flee UKIP. Who will hilariously need a new moniker if you vote to exit. EIP?? EWIP??😜



"The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Saoirse go Deo
31-08-2014, 09:27 PM
Get out while you can Scotland

C. Flower
01-09-2014, 12:43 PM
Get out while you can Scotland

:)

DCon
27-09-2014, 04:46 PM
Another Tory MP jumps ship

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1VItuAQyM&feature=youtu.be

morticia
28-09-2014, 08:22 PM
This one's gonna blow. Cameron's choice is basically referendum or UKIP. How the business community wrests control of this back to what suits them (continued EU membership) will be very, very interesting. Personally, I believe the English public is less practical and more egotistical than the Scots or our good selves. I'd be very, very surprised if the usual "vote the way we want or the economy will bite you in the @rse" tactics will work with them.
What worries me more is that I think there are some very rich hedgies who are planning to orchestrate European collapse via finance, such that the UK is not left in the nightmare (for them) scenario of being out of the EU, but needing to still swallow all the rules for trade purposes. There may be trouble ahead

fluffybiscuits
28-09-2014, 09:50 PM
The Tory Leadership have opened fire on Mark Reckless who left.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/28/david-cameron-ukip-mark-reckless


The Conservatives have launched a furious attack on their former MP Mark Reckless for defecting to Ukip, with the party chairman, Grant Shapps, saying he “lied and lied and lied”.

The senior Conservative used his opening speech at the Tory conference in Birmingham to criticise Reckless, telling party members they had all been betrayed by the actions of the former Braintree MP.

DCon
01-10-2014, 10:10 PM
ouch


The millionaire former Tory donor Arron Banks has announced a tenfold increase in his planned donation to Ukip – to £1m – after William Hague said he had not heard of him.

Arron Banks, who made his fortune in insurance, announced he was increasing his donation from £100,000 in protest at the comments from the leader of the Commons.

The announcement by Banks suggests the Ukip bandwagon – which was earlier this week swelled by the defection of a second Tory MP – has come to a slow, if well-funded, halt.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/01/tory-donor-arron-banks-increases-ukip-donation-william-hague

Binn Beal
02-10-2014, 10:33 AM
The announcement by Banks suggests the Ukip bandwagon – which was earlier this week swelled by the defection of a second Tory MP – has come to a slow, if well-funded, halt.
In your dreams Guardian! The British media - like our own - think that when they something is so, it then becomes a reality and not the other way round.

morticia
02-10-2014, 08:56 PM
In your dreams Guardian! The British media - like our own - think that when they something is so, it then becomes a reality and not the other way round.

Ok, so the Grauniad thinks UKIP having more money will slow it down???

Must find wall to bash head against, repeatedly...

Donal Og
04-10-2014, 09:46 AM
Aylesbury is their eighth most likely target says Radio 4. But the Tories have a majority of 12,000 there. It's not going to be a cakewalk in most seats then! Also, at the Big election , they will be forced to produce some policies. This could cost them in working class votes. In the past they have suggested abolishing the minimum wage. Now they will increase it. They were all for high speed rail , now they are opposed and so on. Can't go on dissembling forever.

DCon
05-10-2014, 04:52 AM
Looks like Reckless will win the by-election



Tory defector Mark Reckless is on course to win back his Commons seat for UKIP in the upcoming by-election in Rochester and Strood, according to a new poll.

The eurosceptic party enjoys a nine-point lead in the Kent constituency, the survey conducted by Survation for the Mail on Sunday found.



http://news.sky.com/story/1347597/tory-defector-mark-reckless-set-for-ukip-win

Binn Beal
05-10-2014, 08:04 AM
This could cost them in working class votes. In the past they have suggested abolishing the minimum wage. Now they will increase it. They were all for high speed rail , now they are opposed and so on. Can't go on dissembling forever.There is a style of politics about at the moment where parties and candidates don't have stated policies. In fact the less they say on a subject, the better for them. This is what happens in the US - just a lot of flag-waving and popular clichés with people, preferably with good teeth or in uniform cheering wildly at everything said. Occasionally the candidate says something real and frequently puts his/her foot in it.

There was a candidate in the Euros here who was claiming to be neither Left nor Right but thankfully the Irish electorate gave him the cold shoulder. FFGLB doesn't have policies on most issues unless they are forced into it. It seems to be a peculiarity of the Left that you must take a stand on the Faroe question or the currency of Transnistria, and then split on it.

DCon
10-10-2014, 04:04 AM
UKIP has won a first seat on Westminster

http://news.sky.com/story/1350540/how-great-a-threat-is-ukips-firepower

Donal Og
10-10-2014, 11:34 AM
UKIP has won a first seat on Westminster

http://news.sky.com/story/1350540/how-great-a-threat-is-ukips-firepower

This is an easy win for the sitting member.Lot of OAPs, working poor. And he is a genuinely popular, if eccentric man. The Tories gave it up from the first. Rochester has a younger , more affluent profile. And the sitting member is loathed by local Tories, simply a carpetbagger etc. They will totally bomb that constituency will canvassers , posters, leaflets, phone calls. If Ukip still win ....the Tories could split - rather like the Liberals did over Home Rule. Out of power for 100 years. Very dramatic, cant really see it but...

fluffybiscuits
14-10-2014, 08:43 PM
Green Party in the UK are threatening legal action. Broadcasters have invited UKIP to debates in next years general election.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/13/general-election-2015-tv-debates

Projections from the Guardian forecast 30 seats for UKIP. UKIPs votes primarily may flow from Tory voters disillusioned with the Torys stance on social issues like gay marriage and the one issue that UKIP has centred itself around, immigration. All of these seats will come at the expense of the Torys . Lib Dems demise will be Labour gain.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/14/ukip-30-seats-2015-general-election


Ukip has a chance of winning in at least 30 constituencies at the next election, although it is likely to win only in five, according to data compiled after the party’s byelection win in Clacton.

An analysis based on polling and other recently published data from the Guardian’s data team found the three Conservative seats of Boston and Skegness, Thurrock, and Thanet South – where Nigel Farage is standing, among the five most likely to fall to Ukip in 2015. The others are the recently taken seat of Clacton and the Labour seat of Great Grimsby.

DCon
18-10-2014, 12:03 PM
Cammie baby considering a migration curb. How would ghat work, especially with Ireland not policing EU migrants on their behalf?



However, with Ukip breathing down his neck and a by-election nigh, Cameron is reportedly now thinking about going further, potentially curbing the volume of EU migrants.



http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100028229/why-david-cameron-will-struggle-to-out-ukip-ukip-on-eu-migration/?WT.mc_id=e_3620778&WT.tsrc=email&etype=frontpage&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_2014_10_18&utm_campaign=3620778

DCon
19-10-2014, 10:46 AM
Cammie sounding more desperate



David Cameron has launched a fresh effort to try to persuade would-be UKIP voters to support the Conservatives, warning it would be a "terrible irony" if voting for Nigel Farage's party led to Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister.

Mr Cameron said voters should not be "deceived" into thinking the next election was anything other than a "stark choice" between the Tories and Labour.

The PM repeated his promise to put measures to control EU migration at the heart of his plans to renegotiate the UK's relationship with Brussels.




http://news.sky.com/story/1356077/cameron-a-vote-for-ukip-is-a-vote-for-labour

Ceannaire
19-10-2014, 12:26 PM
The problem for Cameron with that line is (a) UKIP voters are so disillusioned with the establishment that many of them hardly differentiate between Cameron and Miliband anyway -- the perception that the three main parties are all the same is what drove them to UKIP in the first place; (b) to the extent that UKIP voters do differentiate between them, there isn't a decisive preference for the Tories at all. I saw a figure recently of something like 28% would prefer Labour as coalition partners, and 35%, Tories.

morticia
19-10-2014, 04:56 PM
Interesting. Yes, I think that's probably true. To a xenophobe, the 3 major parties would seem fairly homogeneous. And some of our newfound nationalists would be from a working class old Lab background alright. Back to the 1970s, eh, fewer "furriners" and back to the glorious days of unionisation. Winter of discontent re-enactments, here we come??

DCon
19-10-2014, 07:54 PM
Seems Cammie cannot cap EU migrants



David Cameron’s plan to restrict the amount of time that EU migrants can spend working in Britain will never be accepted by the other EU governments, Europe’s highest ranking official, Jose Manuel Barroso, has warned.
He insisted that the right of EU citizens to look for work anywhere in the EU is one of its fundamental principles, and not open to negotiation.
He also pointed out that David Cameron had urged him to uphold the principle in the past when the Spanish government was obstructing people from Gibraltar trying to cross the border into Spain to work.

“I don't think you can say there is a huge problem with immigration - there are 2 million British citizens in the rest of EU.
“In principle arbitrary caps seem to me in contradiction with EU laws. That is quite clear from my point of view.”



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-chief-warns-no-possibility-of-uk-reducing-immigration--as-cameron-is-warned-quota-on-migrant-workers-would-break-the-law-9804464.html

morticia
19-10-2014, 09:22 PM
Cameron must have known that. But it will be his excuse for calling a Brexit referendum shortly, citing the Sprouts reluctance to negotiate as the straw that broke the camel's back. UKIP and the tabloids have him bouncing off the ropes.

And, of course, the UK is overcrowded, underspent on quality education, incapable of competitive manufacturing (except for armaments), and is reliant on declining oil receipts and the massive bubble blowing elites in the City to stay afloat.

I really don't care what anyone says about Ireland, the grim reality is that the UK is probably in a much bigger mess. There is a really huge underclass that will explode if things get much worse. Dole is less than £70 per week. Go figure.

There are implications there re the North. Big implications.

DCon
26-10-2014, 07:15 AM
Latest poll




Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 24th Oct - Con 33%, Lab 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 16%;

morticia
26-10-2014, 07:18 AM
Oh fudge. Just out of interest, was this poll taken before 2.1 billion was requested, or after.

DCon
26-10-2014, 07:21 AM
23rd and 24th were the polling days

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/tg001pwhwn/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-241014.pdf

fluffybiscuits
27-10-2014, 08:27 PM
The problem for Cameron with that line is (a) UKIP voters are so disillusioned with the establishment that many of them hardly differentiate between Cameron and Miliband anyway -- the perception that the three main parties are all the same is what drove them to UKIP in the first place; (b) to the extent that UKIP voters do differentiate between them, there isn't a decisive preference for the Tories at all. I saw a figure recently of something like 28% would prefer Labour as coalition partners, and 35%, Tories.

That is the same as here though if anecdotal evidence is much to go by. People become so disillusioned they pedal the phrase 'sure arent they all the same'.

Another reason to be worried, they are getting big bucks

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/millionaire-donor-paul-sykes-gives-ukip-15m-in-bid-to-win-100-seats-in-parliament-9819415.html


Ukip's biggest donor has pledged a further £1.5 million to Nigel Farage's party as it looks to target 100 seats at next year's general election.

UKIPs propensity for alarmist propoganda is not unlike that of Goebbels. Taint the immigrants/working class/unemployed/gays or whatever minority it is and pin the blame squarely at their feet. UKIP has made it its business to focus on immigration.

DCon
31-10-2014, 07:45 PM
Winning run at an end

https://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/pcc.jpg?w=480&h=319

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/31/why-did-ukip-lose-south-yorkshire-police-crime-commissioner-byelection

fluffybiscuits
01-11-2014, 12:00 PM
Things go from bad to worse

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/01/ukip-mep-apologises-tweet-charity-boss-paedophile

A Ukip MEP has been forced to apologise for apparently calling the head of a Christian charity a paedophile on Twitter.


Jane Collins, one of Ukip’s leading politicians, agreed to make a donation to the charity after she implied that Mark Russell was a criminal on the social networking site on Thursday.

Russell, who is a Labour party member and head of the Church Army charity, had posted support for his party’s candidate in the South Yorkshire police and crime commissioner byelection.

morticia
01-11-2014, 01:15 PM
That's got to be the very definition of an own goal, doesn't it?

DCon
02-11-2014, 01:03 PM
Polling well, however

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1Wq2mzIcAAT2zr.png

Binn Beal
02-11-2014, 01:30 PM
UKIP is doing what Sinn Féin and Podermos (Spain) and others are doing in Europe and that is filling the gap left by two right-wing parties that have been hood-winking the voters with a Tweedeldum\Tweedledee lack of choice for years.

The policies of UKIP are no further right than those of Labour and Conservatives and are more in tune with the shift among the people away from those two dinosaurs. Leaving the EU and regulating immigration, which are UKIP's main attractions, are policies that any left-wing party could as easily espouse. Farrage is a blunt-speaking, clear-headed politician who has caught the spirit of the English people. They like them slightly nutty over there - it's part of the charm of Englishness.

As in Ireland, the media campaign - all BBC programmes are required to have an anti-UKIP segment - is having the same affect as the attacks on Sinn Féin, that is, rapidly promoting them.

morticia
02-11-2014, 01:45 PM
True, Binn Beal, true. But Farage's party is, in my opinion, guilty of both racism and sexism ("women should clean behind the fridge more often"), and while you are correct that they may not be far to the right of the Lab Lib Cons (Thatcher's children, all), by Irish standards, they are all far to the right of FG even on a bad day.

I'm much happier with SF than I would be with a UKIP style party here. Sex scandals not withstanding. The Tory allegations are worse.

morticia
02-11-2014, 09:34 PM
Oh, thanks be to God and all His fluffiest little angels. The days in which we will have to continue to listen to UKIP, Tories and now Labour going on about immigration may be numbered.

Frau Doktor Merkel has 'ad enuff.

There is a point of no return beyond which we will not try to keep the UK within the EU, she says. The freedom of movement within the Sprout zone being a red line issue, in the original treaty thingummy, like.

Meanwhile, Tony Blair (with whom, for once, I am forced to agree) has come out and said the immigration panic at the mo will be bad for business and is heading in totally the wrong direction.

Yeah, Tony, but I think the herd of horses vaporised the stable door several months ago. Closing it doesn't appear to be an option. Chances are he's figured that out too but thought he'd have a go anyway. No harm I suppose.

DCon
03-11-2014, 10:46 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B06HmgaCMAAiviH.jpg

fluffybiscuits
08-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Saw on the BBC the other day that immigrants give about £25 bn to the British economy, a lot more than they take out of it. Shatters the myth peddled by the far right...

morticia
09-11-2014, 03:50 PM
Yes, Fluffy, indeed. The CBI (confederation of British industry) isn't managing to raise its voice above the cacophony here though.

Meanwhile, UKIP has managed to find another few Eurodinosaurs to ally itself to.

Rape justifiers and Holocaust deniers, who think that exposure to semen makes women more intelligent (if so, why is this failing for men?) and that we should have a Euromonarchy in which women should be denied the vote.

See link if you think I'm joking. Just what will it take to put the UK public off these loons??

When a woman says no to sex, she doesn't really mean it - Polish MEP
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/when-a-woman-says-no-to-sex-she-doesnt-really-mean-it-polish-mep-30730156.html

Binn Beal
09-11-2014, 04:18 PM
Just what will it take to put the UK public off these loons??
Policies that are in the interest of the UK public.

morticia
09-11-2014, 05:15 PM
Policies that are in the interest of the UK public.

We may be waiting a while...

fluffybiscuits
18-11-2014, 10:44 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/18/tories-rochester-strood-byelection-priced-in-ukip-win

UKIP riding high in polls.

By election in Rochester

Polls show them doing well at the expense of the Tories

Binn Beal
19-11-2014, 08:45 AM
UKIP are winning because of their policies. The concerted media attacks on them are futile - just as futile as the Irish media demonising Sinn Féin.

Donal Og
19-11-2014, 09:17 AM
What policies? It's all down to the whims of Nige. He flip flops all over the gaff. And Carswell disagrees with him on everything but Europe...soon be fireworks there.:)

morticia
19-11-2014, 04:24 PM
What policies? It's all down to the whims of Nige. He flip flops all over the gaff. And Carswell disagrees with him on everything but Europe...soon be fireworks there.:)

The public mood over there may dictate that this won't matter a fig until they're part of a government. Once they are, it may be too late. Sigh.

Binn Beal
19-11-2014, 04:58 PM
What policies? The ones that are supported by a growing share of the electorate in Britain.

morticia
19-11-2014, 07:15 PM
What policies? The ones that are supported by a growing share of the electorate in Britain.

Mostly the anti-Europe ones, (apart from Farage's German wife, of course, provided she remembers to clean behind the fridge). Then there's the restricting all immigration ones, and the ermmm.. Oh, and getting women to clean behind the fridge more often, and helping the Orange Order to repress those pesky Republicans in NI and Scotland, and did I mention women and fridge cleaning??

fluffybiscuits
19-11-2014, 11:01 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11241610/Ukips-Mark-Reckless-is-ahead-in-Rochesters-paradoxical-by-election.html

Mark Reckless on top in latest opinion polls

Binn Beal
20-11-2014, 10:46 AM
Mark Reckless on top in latest opinion pollsOf course. Only to be expected when the other parties won't address the concerns of the electorate.

DCon
20-11-2014, 11:08 AM
More defectors on the way, says Reckless


Two more Tory MPs have held talks about joining to Ukip it emerged ahead of today's crunch by-election in Rochester and Strood.

Mark Reckless, who triggered today's vote when he defected from the Conservatives, claims others could follow him if – as expected – he wins the seat for Ukip.

David Cameron promised to mobilise Tory activists to get Mr Reckless' 'fat arse' out of the Commons, but is facing the prospect of losing another seat to Nigel Farage's party.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2842114/Two-Tory-MPs-talks-defect-Ukip-Mark-Reckless-claims-voters-polls-crunch-election.html

Donal Og
20-11-2014, 01:03 PM
I could start a party then Binn Beal. We will exit Europe. Then what ? I don't know really.I was going to flog the NHS but people kicked up..so now I'm committed to saving it. So you can't say I've no policies. That's 3 in one paragraph. Oh yes!

'These are my principles. And if you don't like them......I have others.' Groucho Marx.

DCon
20-11-2014, 01:41 PM
nice of them


Ukip’s immigration policy was left in chaos this morning after it rejected claims it wanted to repatriate foreign workers after leaving the EU – by promising an amnesty for all three million European migrants to stay in Britain.

Mark Reckless, the party’s candidate in tomorrow’s crunch Rochester by-election, sparked outrage after claiming that once Britain left the European Union migrants would only be allowed to stay for a ‘fixed period’.

But Ukip this morning insisted that 'there is no intention whatsoever to backdate future border controls to penalise those already here’. The u-turn means the 2.8million EU nationals living and working in Britain would be given the right to stay in the UK after an EU exit.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2840189/Ukip-candidate-jeered-hinting-EU-arrivals-repatriated.html#ixzz3JcUhVriz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

DCon
20-11-2014, 02:14 PM
Thanks Mark



THE IRISH would be exempt from Ukip’s immigration plans according to Rochester candidate Mark Reckless - a second generation Irishman.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6106323/mark-reckless-slammed-for-preaching-like-the-bnp.html

Donal Og
20-11-2014, 06:45 PM
Thanks Mark



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6106323/mark-reckless-slammed-for-preaching-like-the-bnp.html

Yay! Or maybe nay. Watch Sky for further details. They will also Renationalise everything ( Patrick O Flynn, Ian Dexter) Or not ( all those billionaires who pick up Nigels bar tab)

Binn Beal
20-11-2014, 08:08 PM
So why is UKIP's popularity on the increase?
Is the British electorate not as sophisticated as the commentators?

DCon
20-11-2014, 09:26 PM
Labour MP resigns from shadow cabinet





Shadow attorney general Emily Thornberry has resigned from the shadow cabinet after posting a "snobbish" tweet.

http://news.sky.com/story/1377386/labour-mp-resigns-over-rochester-tweet

http://emilythornberry.com/

DCon
20-11-2014, 09:38 PM
Exit poll


Ukip – 49%

Conservative – 29%

Labour – 16%

Greens – 6%

Liberal Democrats – 0%

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/first-exit-poll-from-rochester-and-strood-lib-dems-get-0/

fluffybiscuits
20-11-2014, 10:04 PM
So why is UKIP's popularity on the increase?
Is the British electorate not as sophisticated as the commentators?


Disillusionment with the current status quo

Exit poll



http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/first-exit-poll-from-rochester-and-strood-lib-dems-get-0/


A twernty percent lead for UKIP.

Most of them are defecting Tory voters .

DCon
20-11-2014, 10:07 PM
"tory sources" telling Sky News they have no hope

fluffybiscuits
20-11-2014, 10:31 PM
"tory sources" telling Sky News they have no hope
They dont

DCon
21-11-2014, 05:04 AM
Quite the result for them

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B28DDUxIEAAWoaO.jpg

Slim Buddha
21-11-2014, 06:41 AM
The UKIP win was expected, even though Mark Reckless does not seem to connect with his constituents as well as Douglas Carswell in Clacton. The size of the majority in Rochester and Strood for UKIP is such that the Tories could win it back in 6 months time whereas Clacton is gone. The demographics in Clacton were much more in UKIP's favour anyway which, combined with Carswell's personal popularity in the constituency, makes this virtually unwinnable for the Tories in 6 months.
The Labour Party scored a spectacular own goal with Thornberry's tweet showing a White Van Man's England flags draped over his house. The real story is the total collapse in the Lib Dem vote and is an indication for Joan Burton as to what can happen to a minor coalition party in an despised government.

morticia
21-11-2014, 03:49 PM
Agree with most of that, but FPTP totally speeds up the demise of coalition parties; Lib Dems could completely disappear, whereas I'd expect Labour to hold about 5 seats on the Southside.

DCon
21-11-2014, 04:12 PM
Agree with most of that, but FPTP totally speeds up the demise of coalition parties; Lib Dems could completely disappear, whereas I'd expect Labour to hold about 5 seats on the Southside.

There are also far too many seats in Ireland

What is the population/politician ratio in Britain/France/Germany?

Donal Og
21-11-2014, 06:18 PM
Agree with most of that, but FPTP totally speeds up the demise of coalition parties; Lib Dems could completely disappear, whereas I'd expect Labour to hold about 5 seats on the Southside.

Agree. The may even hold some in Cork. It's a longish way til election time - unlike the UK. I know STV is hideously complex - but FPTP is just wacky. See how the UK govt uses PR in Edinburgh. D Con has a point about the number of deputies. But if we cut it down to say 90, we'd have to cut the constituency link also. TDs would never see Dublin as they'd be too busy ward-heeling over a vast area. And it's bad enough now. A scandal in fact. I can't bear to watch it on RTE.....

morticia
21-11-2014, 06:38 PM
There are also far too many seats in Ireland

What is the population/politician ratio in Britain/France/Germany?

That is the price of PRSTV. And, believe me, after writing my useless MP "disgusted of S Wales" letters for 5+ years and getting nowhere, it IS a price worth paying. Politicians have more to do and work harder here, I think. Local involvement is hard work, but worth it. Think about it, would you swap our lot for those out of touch public school types in Westminster? I wouldn't.

Slim Buddha
21-11-2014, 09:34 PM
That is the price of PRSTV. And, believe me, after writing my useless MP "disgusted of S Wales" letters for 5+ years and getting nowhere, it IS a price worth paying. Politicians have more to do and work harder here, I think. Local involvement is hard work, but worth it. Think about it, would you swap our lot for those out of touch public school types in Westminster? I wouldn't.

There is a massive downside to this, of course. And that is that we end up with a large number of TD´s who do nothing but clinic "work", which is not "work" at all, dedicated as it is to their re-election and nothing else. The function of the clinic is to get the TD back into Leinster House, again and again and again. Helping constituents is not as important as the appearance of helping constituents. Clinics would not be needed if the system worked properly. Because it doesn't, TD´s can say clinics are needed, thus giving TD´s a vested interest in ensuring the system does not work properly.

Hence a significant number of TD´s are nothing more than messengers for their constituents and backbench voting fodder in Leinster House. And this irrelevance comes at a huge cost and it is quite literally a complete waste of money.

morticia
21-11-2014, 09:46 PM
No, I disagree. The MPs in 90% of constituencies in the UK hardly have to lift a finger; in my old one; a one legged dead donkey would have been elected if the right colour rosette had been pinned on it.

I mean, FPTP is absurdly effective if one's govt wants the illusion of democracy and a top down system favouring a largely hereditary oligarchic system. One can even paint a veneer of patriotism on this edifice and call it "strong government", which might work providing you place enough of the proletariat in poorly paid, cannon fodder military roles and whack The Tower of London moat full of poppies once a year to keep everyone's patriotic spirits up. The only downside is the vast amount of dosh required to feed the military industrial complex going, but hey, if it makes the otherwise idle MPs look macho and allows them to ponce around the international stage threatening people with humanitarian bombing efforts, hey maybe it's all worth it. After all, a large standing army helps the main cash cow (the Elite City Money Magic Corps) remain scot-free in the event of any whoopsies, so that's just fine then, ...isn't it??

PRSTV will have to be snatched from my cold, dead hands before I quit defending it. Double the number of political reps is way cheaper than throwing military shapes. Or maintaining the City in the style to which it has become far too accustomed. The day of reckoning will come, never fear...

Ask yourself this; when did 150,000 people on the streets stop the UK government from doing anything? They had millions out over the Iraq war, and they completely ignored them. Because it takes a far larger swing to sack a sitting MP at the next election. They don't care. Here, we can make them care. They don't do as the majority of the electorate wants, their sorry asses get canned at the next election.

Oh, and just to ram the point home to all of FF's most enthusiastic fans (NOT); they would have had an awful lot of overall majorities over the last 90 years under FPTP.

Was that what you had in mind?? Thought not....

Slim Buddha
21-11-2014, 10:01 PM
No, I disagree. The MPs in 90% of constituencies in the UK hardly have to lift a finger; in my old one; a one legged dead donkey would have been elected if the right colour rosette had been pinned on it.

I mean, FPTP is absurdly effective if one's govt wants the illusion of democracy and a top down system favouring a largely hereditary oligarchic system. One can even paint a veneer of patriotism on this edifice and call it "strong government", which might work providing you place enough of the proletariat in poorly paid, cannon fodder military roles and whack The Tower of London moat full of poppies once a year to keep everyone's patriotic spirits up. The only downside is the vast amount of dosh required to feed the military industrial complex going, but hey, if it makes the otherwise idle MPs look macho and allows them to ponce around the international stage threatening people with humanitarian bombing efforts, hey maybe it's all worth it. After all, a large standing army helps the main cash cow (the Elite City Money Magic Corps) remain scot-free in the event of any whoopsies, so that's just fine then, ...isn't it??

PRSTV will have to be snatched from my cold, dead hands before I quit defending it. Double the number of political reps is way cheaper than throwing military shapes. Or maintaining the City in the style to which it has become far too accustomed. The day of reckoning will come, never fear...

Ask yourself this; when did 150,000 people on the streets stop the UK government from doing anything? They had millions out over the Iraq war, and they completely ignored them. Because it takes a far larger swing to sack a sitting MP at the next election. They don't care. Here, we can make them care. They don't do as the majority of the electorate wants, their sorry asses get canned at the next election.

Oh, and just to ram the point home to all of FF's most enthusiastic fans (NOT); they would have had an awful lot of overall majorities over the last 90 years under FPTP.

Was that what you had in mind?? Thought not....


I am no fan of FPTP either. Idiot system. But I understand the instant need to compare with the UK. We do it all the time.

I am very happy with the system of democracy where I am, thanks.

morticia
21-11-2014, 10:07 PM
I am no fan of FPTP either. Idiot system. But I understand the instant need to compare with the UK. We do it all the time.

I am very happy with the system of democracy where I am, thanks.

Yes, that is also very democratic. Sadly, no-one is offering it as an option. Moreover, not just the UK, but most of the (heavily armed and hugely capitalist) Anglozone runs on versions of FPTP. Our system at least has the virtue of encouraging some focus on local issues.
But yes, if anyone wants to try the Swiss system here, sure, no problem. They, like us, are known for a careful consideration of local issues and a Rather Small military.

Slim Buddha
21-11-2014, 10:29 PM
Yes, that is also very democratic. Sadly, no-one is offering it as an option. Moreover, not just the UK, but most of the (heavily armed and hugely capitalist) Anglozone runs on versions of FPTP. Our system at least has the virtue of encouraging some focus on local issues.
But yes, if anyone wants to try the Swiss system here, sure, no problem. They, like us, are known for a careful consideration of local issues and a Rather Small military.

Small military?? Not quite. Switzerland can mobilise 700,000 soldiers within 48 hours. Which makes it the largest army in Europe, outside Russia. Admittedly most of these are not full time soldiers but all men between 18 and 41 are enlisted into the army and must do compulsory military service every year (at the employers expense). And the Swiss consistently vote to keep this system in place.

As for dealing with local issues, the system is designed to keep decision-making at the lowest centre of gravity. The competencies are divided differently. There are only 7 "ministries" so there are only 7 "ministers" with no "Prime Minister" as such, just a yearly or bi-annual chairperson of the "ministers". Somebody looking for a local issue would never go to the equivalent of TD here because they do not have any competence, authority or ability to deal with it. Hence the messenger boy problem does not exist.

Politicians in Ireland would hate the Swiss system because it is so transparent. There is corruption here, I am sure, but not so much in politics because the people are in control of the political system and not the politicians. Politicians here are acutely aware that the people are their employers. And they keep politicians on a short lead. One politician here go a six month sentence suspended for two years for fiddling his expenses totalling CHF 7600. Around €6000. Chump change in Ireland.

morticia
22-11-2014, 06:10 AM
Sounds good to me! But I would say that I think we are learning. The pols up to Lemass were committed and honest, I think. Haughey and Lowry were done for amounts ranging from 500k (Lowry's unpaid tax bill) and 1mill plus, but any amounts since, including Bertie's disputed "won it on the horses" account were smaller; 42k, I think. And now they have vouched expenses. We are learning to watch them, and they are being more careful. Media scrutiny and all that! Stable doors after bolting horses, I know, but an improvement nonetheless.

Slim Buddha
22-11-2014, 08:42 AM
Sounds good to me! But I would say that I think we are learning. The pols up to Lemass were committed and honest, I think. Haughey and Lowry were done for amounts ranging from 500k (Lowry's unpaid tax bill) and 1mill plus, but any amounts since, including Bertie's disputed "won it on the horses" account were smaller; 42k, I think. And now they have vouched expenses. We are learning to watch them, and they are being more careful. Media scrutiny and all that! Stable doors after bolting horses, I know, but an improvement nonetheless.

Maybe the electorate are copping on to themselves, however glacial the pace, but the architecture of the political bodies has to go. Politically, Ireland has barely developed at all in the last 50 years. I agree that the politicians up to Lemass were, in the main, honest people but the arrival of Haughey et al, TACA, the men in the mohair suits, etc. signalled a sea change. The new lot had fought in no war and set about turning FF into a party of no principles, no values, no vision, no morals, no honesty and nothing to offer the Irish people. Which explains where they are today. FG are as contemptible.

Ireland has a very long way to go before it cleans up its dreadful politics. At least in Britain, perjurers like Jonathan Aitken and Jeffrey Archer went to jail. And talking of Britain, back to topic. UKIP identified Rochester and Strood as target seat No. 271. A myriad of seats all along the east coast of England are looking more natural UKIP seats than that won by Mark Reckless. However, While Reckless and Carswell were sitting Tory MPS, UKIP will have to field unknowns and the significant advantage of personal recognition brought to the table by Reckless and Carswell in particular will be absent. Voters will be more likely to actually look at UKIP policies more closely and when they see UKIPs plans for the NHS, they may be surprised. The NHS is something you mess about with at your peril in the UK. Even Thatcher knew that. Cameron has very intense personal experience of the NHS and understands this. It may turn out to be UKIPs undoing.

Shaadi
22-11-2014, 12:08 PM
Sounds good to me! But I would say that I think we are learning. The pols up to Lemass were committed and honest, I think. Haughey and Lowry were done for amounts ranging from 500k (Lowry's unpaid tax bill) and 1mill plus, but any amounts since, including Bertie's disputed "won it on the horses" account were smaller; 42k, I think. And now they have vouched expenses. We are learning to watch them, and they are being more careful. Media scrutiny and all that! Stable doors after bolting horses, I know, but an improvement nonetheless.The electorate may be copping on, but the politicians and media, no way.

There's a stink off the way the country is being run, NAMA, DO'B write offs and FG still embracing him publicly after the tribunal findings and FF being courted by him. The penalty points cover up and the medias role in trying to discredit anyone that threatens the status quo. The attempted inflation of another property bubble.

The Golden Circle and its minions are still riding the public for everything they've got via their control of the state and media.

The public is only peed off this time because it's so blatant and there isn't enough money trickling down to them to keep them placated.

Of course, it's the same in most countries, but we have the tools to tackle it here if we as an electorate decide we want to.

As regards UKIP, little more than Tories in a populist mask. T'will be a huge disappointment leading to violence from the English working class when UKIP fk them over.

morticia
22-11-2014, 01:35 PM
The electorate may be copping on, but the politicians and media, no way. As regards UKIP, little more than Tories in a populist mask. T'will be a huge disappointment leading to violence from the English working class when UKIP fk them over.

Well, yes, the current lot totally stink. I am not Cowen's govts greatest fan either, but they at least had the decency to look like rabbits in headlights as the Troika effed us over.
This lot have continued the process with enjoyment and gusto as the Troika disappear over the horizon to panic about Italy and France. The water charge protests were a long time coming, hopefully they'll be totally eviscerated at the polls the next time.
Please refresh my memory if necessary, but I don't remember violent insurrection of the type meted out to Joan Burton and anyone installing meters before, ever. Big marches, yes, but not the vitriol.

On the Brits and UKIP, they will have to deliver some stuff for the working classes besides ditching Brussels, or, yes, there will be riots. And British riots tend to get a lot nastier than the sort we have here. Russell Brand may well 'ave a point re revolution.

DCon
22-11-2014, 08:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3E1hRYCIAEe22Z.jpg

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/22/labour-three-point-lead-tories-poll-ed-miliband?CMP=twt_gu

fluffybiscuits
25-11-2014, 08:22 PM
Maybe the electorate are copping on to themselves, however glacial the pace, but the architecture of the political bodies has to go. Politically, Ireland has barely developed at all in the last 50 years. I agree that the politicians up to Lemass were, in the main, honest people but the arrival of Haughey et al, TACA, the men in the mohair suits, etc. signalled a sea change. The new lot had fought in no war and set about turning FF into a party of no principles, no values, no vision, no morals, no honesty and nothing to offer the Irish people. Which explains where they are today. FG are as contemptible.

Ireland has a very long way to go before it cleans up its dreadful politics. At least in Britain, perjurers like Jonathan Aitken and Jeffrey Archer went to jail. And talking of Britain, back to topic. UKIP identified Rochester and Strood as target seat No. 271. A myriad of seats all along the east coast of England are looking more natural UKIP seats than that won by Mark Reckless. However, While Reckless and Carswell were sitting Tory MPS, UKIP will have to field unknowns and the significant advantage of personal recognition brought to the table by Reckless and Carswell in particular will be absent. Voters will be more likely to actually look at UKIP policies more closely and when they see UKIPs plans for the NHS, they may be surprised. The NHS is something you mess about with at your peril in the UK. Even Thatcher knew that. Cameron has very intense personal experience of the NHS and understands this. It may turn out to be UKIPs undoing.

UKIP's rise to prominence is at the expense of the Lib Dem supporters leaving in droves and Tory voters who are true Tory. The east coast of England contains a lot of working class areas destroyed by policies by Labour and Torys, all of these are going to be hot seats for UKIPS. Areas like Middlesborough and Hull, once thriving industrial towns, fall for the propoganda spread from UKIP. UKIPs policies are treacherous, look at the health policies

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/mar/07/ukip-policies-manifesto-commitments


Franchise out key services including hospitals and GP surgeries to companies and charities.

Recipe for disaster. People do not know much about the policies towards the NHS from UKIP

DCon
25-11-2014, 08:46 PM
Labour moving?


Imagine Guido’s surprise when strolling home from lunch through Westminster to spot Ed Miliband’s Director of Strategy Greg Beales emerging from a lunchtime meeting with Nigel Farage’s Head of Media Alexandra Phillips.

Beales tells Guido: “I’m not defecting.”

A UKIP source says “what meeting?”.

http://order-order.com/2014/11/25/secret-ukip-labour-meeting-this-lunchtime/

DCon
28-11-2014, 08:08 PM
BREXIT is not impossible


A poll for the Standard tonight finds Londoners currently want to stay in the EU by 45% to 37%, but the numbers reverse almost completely if Cameron’s renegotiation attempts fail. No pressure…

UPDATE: And a ComRes/ITV poll finds if a referendum was held tomorrow the UK would leave:

http://order-order.com/2014/11/28/poll-public-backs-brexit-if-cam-plan-fails/

morticia
28-11-2014, 08:56 PM
BREXIT is not impossible


I have been confidently predicting it for years. I would be amazed if their EU membership lasts another 5 years. Murdoch has done his work well.

Donal Og
29-11-2014, 12:24 PM
I have been confidently predicting it for years. I would be amazed if their EU membership lasts another 5 years. Murdoch has done his work well.

Am genuinely confused here. Business is a huge fan of cheap foreign labour. Do they plan to take Eastern Europe with them in some new 'scab' federation! Can't see it. They'd need us to pull out also - otherwise the City wanks would relocate here. But, in that event, they will simply go to Frankfurt.

Still.....just because something is bonkers doesn't mean it won't happen. Polling in local seats is interesting though. Ukip should win a few but it seems Thanet isn't one of them.And Farage is standing there. Former seat of Jonathan Aitken, of Guinness and Beaverbrook family. Dev attended his christening. Now riddle me this ....how come Dev couldn't go to Douglas Hyde's funeral? Genuine inquiry - I have no idea meself!

morticia
29-11-2014, 02:30 PM
Don't know anything about Douglas Hyde's funeral...tell me more.

Yes, this is confusing. Historically, one of the things Brits liked to do on weekends was drunken disorder (look up 18th century and introduction of gin). One of the ways of minimising this was packing young men into the army and navy, sometimes via pressgang, and send em off to defend the glorious empire. This requires a certain degree of historical airbrushing, sweeping victims under the carpet, and wall to wall military glorification. This is a tradition that continues to this day, including recruiting army rank n file from poorer areas. The propaganda sells, and Murdoch has been milking it. Britain has also never quite gotten over being invaded by William the Conqueror, and there were subsequent 800-900 years of wars with the French in particular. Many Brits still like to joke about testing weaponry on the French even today. Then there's the post World War I thing of demonising the Germans as well, and the fascists did have Italy and Iberia as well. So there's a moral superiority angle (I'd be inclined to agree on the non-fascist thing, but for me that's as far as it goes). Anyway, you've got a moral military superiority thing allied with a tradition of overpopulation related aggro, and now, given that Europe is supposed to be part of the same federation, it has nowhere to go. Enter the USA and Murdoch, stage left. The Americans initially really supported attempts at post war European bonding, they got their Marshall money back etc. But once the EU started import standards and looking like competition, they started to think twice. So we have Murdoch, stoking the superiority complex and asking why be in the same club as the "auld enemies"? And then all those offers of military collaboration and the close ties between intelligence services. And then there's the languages thing..a lot of Brits don't really value education and only the "pay thru the nose for it" elites really get a good one, leaving everyone else as easy meat for Sun propaganda. And feeling culturally barred from interaction with the continent (apart from the Costas), owing to not having much expertise in European languages. They can manage American English, in most cases (although I'll never forget CBC in Canada subtitling interviews with Glaswegians on one occasion).

So the CBI (IBEC equivalent) is well aware its bread is more thickly buttered in bed with the sprouts, but the CEOs don't seem to be able to get this across to the people, who are tuned into a more traditional propaganda stream.

Does that help at all? No, it doesn't make any sense.

I leave you with this old chestnut; "Fog in Channel. Continent cut off".

Donal Og
29-11-2014, 06:31 PM
Very good Morticia! Well, Dev couldn't make Hyde's funeral as the latter was a Protestant. Austin Clarke wrote a very dry and bitter poem about it. Of course Aitken is also a Protestant. Born in Dublin , I think his da was at the embassy. Anyway Dev was at his christening. You'd need a theologian to work this out!

How ironic CBC subtitling the 'Weegies' - when you think Scots Gaelic was (is?) spoken there! And yes, there is huge confusion among the Brits on identity. They hate the French but all move to the Loire as soon as humanly possible. Where they boast to all their mates back home about the wonderful free health service. While simultaneously boring on about the hopeless corruption and red tape and all this bleedin' health and safety legislation. But then the Lords told Lloyd George to shove his budget in 1910 when he wanted to introduce old age pensions. They were not going to pay tax as their 'ancestors came over with Duke William' and England was theirs 'by right of conquest'. Perhaps the Loire/ Provence / Tuscany is theirs too?:rolleyes:

DCon
29-11-2014, 06:36 PM
Am genuinely confused here. Business is a huge fan of cheap foreign labour. Do they plan to take Eastern Europe with them in some new 'scab' federation! Can't see it. They'd need us to pull out also - otherwise the City wanks would relocate here. But, in that event, they will simply go to

I am sure big business will have no problem getting cheap labour under whatever plan Cammie eventually comes to

This is entirely about optics and keeping the hardcore Tories (politicians and voters) from moving to UKIP

morticia
29-11-2014, 07:03 PM
I am sure big business will have no problem getting cheap labour under whatever plan Cammie eventually comes to

This is entirely about optics and keeping the hardcore Tories (politicians and voters) from moving to UKIP

Damn right! And so much more succinct than me! 100% agree.

I really recommend Women Against Tories and Women against UKIP. Hilarious (I have an old labour activist UK cousin type who shares all this on Facebook...

morticia
29-11-2014, 09:02 PM
Very good Morticia! Well, Dev couldn't make Hyde's funeral as the latter was a Protestant. Austin Clarke wrote a very dry and bitter poem about it. Of course Aitken is also a Protestant. Born in Dublin , I think his da was at the embassy. Anyway Dev was at his christening. You'd need a theologian to work this out!:

Thanks, that's hilarious. So Dev only didn't go to Protestant churches when McQuaid et al. were watching. In the UK where it was the norm, this was just fine, and probably not remarked upon.
One has to laugh...

Poor auld Dev....

DCon
29-11-2014, 09:18 PM
tory hobbits getting upset

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3o0-UmCEAE4dMc.png:large

morticia
29-11-2014, 09:45 PM
Lol, what's next? The Devon Freedom Front vs the Hampshire Liberation Organization in a dash for printed cash?

Donal Og
30-11-2014, 09:49 AM
Thanks, that's hilarious. So Dev only didn't go to Protestant churches when McQuaid et al. were watching. In the UK where it was the norm, this was just fine, and probably not remarked upon.
One has to laugh...

Poor auld Dev....

But....Aitken was Christened in St Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin - that's the odd thing. He had TB when he was 3 and was in hospital til he was 7. Much later he was imprisoned for perjury. Alone in his cell for the first time he said a Hail Mary. Which he had been taught by an old nun in the hospital. Bizarre. He was sent off to Eton then. The ruling class have a strange way of rearing kids! I bet he thinks UKIP are a terrible bunch of oiks....

Donal Og
30-11-2014, 09:58 AM
tory hobbits getting upset

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3o0-UmCEAE4dMc.png:large

Well, well. Devolution takes many forms and has many outcomes I suppose. We should really look to it here. Weak local authorities are the reason TDs are trapped in their constituencies and a recipe for clientalism and corruption. So a Fine gael TD told me in the 90s. Truer now than it was then.

morticia
30-11-2014, 06:30 PM
But....Aitken was Christened in St Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin - that's the odd thing. He had TB when he was 3 and was in hospital til he was 7. Much later he was imprisoned for perjury. Alone in his cell for the first time he said a Hail Mary. Which he had been taught by an old nun in the hospital. Bizarre. He was sent off to Eton then. The ruling class have a strange way of rearing kids! I bet he thinks UKIP are a terrible bunch of oiks....

Yes, he's now a born again Christian who tours around talking about prison, rehab, and how to deal with the Middle East.

And, yes, they sure do have a strange way of rearing kids. They pay a fortune for those schools, but they have similar reps to the industrial schools here in some ways; just as abusive, perhaps, but without the stigma. An older (now passed on) relative went to one such school in the 30s, reminisced about breaking ice in the basin to wash in the morning. Another (again, older generation, school in 1950s) talked about how those schools would be the next thing after the Catholic Church to be done for child sex abuse.

Thanks for the info re Dev; now I have no bleeping idea why he refused the Hyde funeral but attended the Aitken christening. Seems so inconsistent. Perhaps his advising bishop had changed between the two events. McQuaid in Dublin used to prevent people from attending Trinity, but some of the Munster/Connacht bishops took a more relaxed view apparently.

And no, cough, I'd not have placed Farage in the posh category either. 😃😜😉

Donal Og
01-12-2014, 11:29 AM
Yes, he's now a born again Christian who tours around talking about prison, rehab, and how to deal with the Middle East.

And, yes, they sure do have a strange way of rearing kids. They pay a fortune for those schools, but they have similar reps to the industrial schools here in some ways; just as abusive, perhaps, but without the stigma. An older (now passed on) relative went to one such school in the 30s, reminisced about breaking ice in the basin to wash in the morning. Another (again, older generation, school in 1950s) talked about how those schools would be the next thing after the Catholic Church to be done for child sex abuse.

Thanks for the info re Dev; now I have no bleeping idea why he refused the Hyde funeral but attended the Aitken christening. Seems so inconsistent. Perhaps his advising bishop had changed between the two events. McQuaid in Dublin used to prevent people from attending Trinity, but some of the Munster/Connacht bishops took a more relaxed view apparently.

And no, cough, I'd not have placed Farage in the posh category either. ������

Yeah, I had a mate who went to Marlborough. Nice guy but .....messed up. I think ( just a guess this) communion would not be partaken of at a christening? Maybe that was the get out clause. Then there's realpolitik - Aitken's family loaded and Establishment. His godmother was Juliana of the Netherlands. Poor Hyde was minor gentry from Roscommon - and he was 'ar an slí firinne' anyway. Two seats in Thanet - I didn't realise that.

morticia
01-12-2014, 12:23 PM
Yeah, I had a mate who went to Marlborough. Nice guy but .....messed up. I think ( just a guess this) communion would not be partaken of at a christening? Maybe that was the get out clause. Then there's realpolitik - Aitken's family loaded and Establishment. His godmother was Juliana of the Netherlands. Poor Hyde was minor gentry from Roscommon - and he was 'ar an slí firinne' anyway. Two seats in Thanet - I didn't realise that.

'ar an slí firinne'??? Giggle translate gives it as the way the truth, but is there extra meaning? I'd got as far as the way of ? on my own?

CoI current practice is to do christenings as part of the normal Sunday am service, which often contains communion, but if they had a specially scheduled ceremony, it wouldn't have included communion, and the ceremonies and prayer books would have been overhauled a few times since dem days, so I don't know.

Realploitik, I think :rolleyes:

morticia
01-12-2014, 12:25 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/01/poverty-deadly-evidence-austerity-britain

Really depressing article about the normalisation of poverty in the UK.

If they think UKIP are a bunch of bleeding hearts likely to fix this, think again!

DCon
01-12-2014, 03:29 PM
UKIP's Christmas card

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3yGhlaCIAALTJ5.jpg

DCon
03-12-2014, 09:54 PM
recent poll


YouGov/Sun poll tonight - CON 32%, LAB 31%, LD 6%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

fluffybiscuits
06-12-2014, 02:22 PM
Russell Brand and Nigel Farage are set to go head to head next week. A time has not been announced nor a date but it will be on BBC's Question Tiume whenever that is. Shouldnt be that much of a battle of wits, Farage is a simpleton and Russell while not the most erudite of speakers should ahve no hassle taking him apart live on TV. In advance of any interview Farage has tried to find some common ground with Brand by telling them that they both come from the same place, a love for the country. He knows he is going to be on a losing streak.

Slim Buddha
06-12-2014, 02:28 PM
Russell Brand and Nigel Farage are set to go head to head next week. A time has not been announced nor a date but it will be on BBC's Question Tiume whenever that is. Shouldnt be that much of a battle of wits, Farage is a simpleton and Russell while not the most erudite of speakers should ahve no hassle taking him apart live on TV. In advance of any interview Farage has tried to find some common ground with Brand by telling them that they both come from the same place, a love for the country. He knows he is going to be on a losing streak.

Russell Brand??? This will be interesting. I would like to see Russell Brand take on John Lydon. Lydon would wipe the floor with him.

fluffybiscuits
06-12-2014, 02:30 PM
Russell Brand??? His will be interesting. I would like to see Russell Brand take on John Lydon. Lydon would wipe the floor with him.

Lydon has a lot more experience

Slim Buddha
06-12-2014, 02:47 PM
Lydon has a lot more experience

And is a lot more mentally agile!

morticia
06-12-2014, 04:17 PM
Farage has struck another blow for women's rights, almost as effectively as his feminazi (not) colleague who suggested women should clean behind fridges more. How we are supposed to do this with absent at work husbands when modern fridges take at least 2 people to move them is beyond me....but I digress.

Anyway, apparently some poor women had the temerity to try breast feeding a baby (shock, horror) while having tea at Claridges when the staff told her to cover up. They are no longer legally allowed to stop people, according to UK law.

Anyway, Farage, that paragon of egalitarian values, has baldly stated he's with Claridges on this one and that everyone knows breast feeding makes people feel uncomfortable.

Right, girls, back in purdah, burqa, abaya, niqab or whatever you're having yourselves.

Sometimes I really think we are sliding back to the dark ages.

DCon
11-12-2014, 10:21 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4nB3rRCUAArGkb.jpg

DCon
14-12-2014, 09:41 PM
Labour's "Campaigning against UKIP" strategy document




http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf

fluffybiscuits
16-12-2014, 07:34 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-30504056

Homophobic, racist...more labels to follow Im sure

DCon
18-12-2014, 11:01 AM
Latest poll

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5Isug8CAAAhLSH.png

fluffybiscuits
23-12-2014, 10:55 PM
UKIP Stories are so prevalent now that they are just a laughing stock, some stories doing the rounds include

-One about a member who said that a male donkey that tried to rape his horse
-Criticism from the UKIP over a game created by students where Farage pushes immigrants over a cliff
-Firing a councillor over potentially racist remarks in Kent
-Their general secretary Roger Bird stepping down after being cleared of sexual harassement

Wagons are falling off UKIPs electoral wagon. Notwithstanding their strong show in polls above (as per the one DCon posted) chances are they could fall apart when it comes to their intelligence which they appear to be severely lacking.

DCon
10-01-2015, 08:47 PM
New poll



#Yougov #sundaytimes Latest poll has CON 32%, LAB 32%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 18%, GRN 6%

Binn Beal
11-01-2015, 09:40 AM
The constant sneering at UKIP by the British establishment and press, without any criticism or examination of UKIP policies, is contributing to their rise. Perhaps the failure to engage in political discussion is a symptom of the bankruptcy of ideas among the Con-Lab-Lib elite.

The British voters have clearly got concerns with the EU and large-scale immigration and rather than tackling these issues the British press think they can get them to go away with smears and sneers. They can't.

morticia
11-01-2015, 10:13 AM
The election is likely to make that fact abundantly clear, sadly. [emoji16]

Slim Buddha
11-01-2015, 10:18 AM
UKIP hit a nerve with some voters on the immigration issue and have rode on a wave of severe discontent with the establishment parties` handling of this issue.
However, it the heat of a general election, UKIP´s non-immigration policies with be subjected to far greater examination and this may prove to be their undoing,
especially their policy on the NHS. UKIP may think they can wing it on immigration policies alone. They can´t.

Apjp
11-01-2015, 03:17 PM
Sure they can. At least enough to get 18%.

I don't share the view that this 18% of people don't just blame all their problems on foreigners. UKIP will be delighted with 18%. They can make and break govts. then at will.

Slim Buddha
11-01-2015, 04:26 PM
Sure they can. At least enough to get 18%.

I don't share the view that this 18% of people don't just blame all their problems on foreigners. UKIP will be delighted with 18%. They can make and break govts. then at will.

I don't find it credible but we don't have to wait that long to see what happens.

Donal Og
11-01-2015, 05:36 PM
'ar an slí firinne'??? Giggle translate gives it as the way the truth, but is there extra meaning? I'd got as far as the way of ? on my own?

CoI current practice is to do christenings as part of the normal Sunday am service, which often contains communion, but if they had a specially scheduled ceremony, it wouldn't have included communion, and the ceremonies and prayer books would have been overhauled a few times since dem days, so I don't know.

Realploitik, I think :rolleyes:

Sorry Morticia - meant to reply but..stuff happened! Ar an slí fírinne - google is literally correct. But it means one has died. Donn Fírinne is an old name for the sun god ( I think -help!) he heads to the Wesht to die of course.

morticia
11-01-2015, 08:17 PM
Thanks for that, Donal!

Slim, I hope you are right, but your assumption rests on people thinking logically. I hate to say it, but after fupping years of the Wapping Liar and other tentacles of the Murdoch press, I really amn't sure they actually do.

Slim Buddha
11-01-2015, 08:24 PM
Thanks for that, Donal!

Slim, I hope you are right, but your assumption rests on people thinking logically. I hate to say it, but after fupping years of the Wapping Liar and other tentacles of the Murdoch press, I really amn't sure they actually do.

Perhaps, but bye-elections are great to let off steam about immigration and the like, A general election focuses the attention on more concrete issues like economics and the NHS because a government, not just an MP is being elected. You can be absolutely sure that ALL of UKIP´s policies, not just those on immigration, will be forensically picked apart and analysed to the nth degree. You may be right, but I think the FPTP system of election in the UK will act together with far greater scrutiny of UKIP´s entire policy platform and will combine to frustrate UKIP.

morticia
11-01-2015, 08:29 PM
We live in hope !

fluffybiscuits
14-01-2015, 08:32 PM
A British general election is coming up soon

Calls for the Green party to be allowed on. Is this to somehow show there is an alternative to UKIP as the parties look for more coalition partners?

Al Murray to stand against UKIP members

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/14/nigel-farage-pub-landlord-al-murray

DCon
19-01-2015, 08:52 PM
Interesting times


The Conservatives and Labour have fallen below 30% in an opinion poll for the first time as a rising number of people say they will vote for a smaller part in May's election.

The latest weekly poll by Tory peer Lord Ashcroft puts his party down five points on 29% - just one point ahead of a Labour party stuck on 28%.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7vncq9IcAETxBH.jpg


http://news.sky.com/story/1410977/poll-indicates-rising-support-for-small-parties

Donal Og
20-01-2015, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=DCon;416540]Interesting times



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7vncq9IcAETxBH.jpg
Radio 4 reported last night that Farage wants to replace the NHS with a privately funded service. Although UKIP as a party is not convinced ... I think that's them fucked quite honestly. All the big 3 need do is play this daft comment on a tape loop. Much of their support is soft and will surely break up....but in which direction? As a one trick pony old Nige would have been better advised to stick to the trick he has learnt so well. Decentish old cove bemused by foreign accents on the train...:)
As opposed to vicious stockbroker with interests in privatisation.

Slim Buddha
21-01-2015, 11:25 AM
[QUOTE=DCon;416540]Interesting times



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7vncq9IcAETxBH.jpg
Radio 4 reported last night that Farage wants to replace the NHS with a privately funded service. Although UKIP as a party is not convinced ... I think that's them fucked quite honestly. All the big 3 need do is play this daft comment on a tape loop. Much of their support is soft and will surely break up....but in which direction? As a one trick pony old Nige would have been better advised to stick to the trick he has learnt so well. Decentish old cove bemused by foreign accents on the train...:)
As opposed to vicious stockbroker with interests in privatisation.


I mentioned UKIP's NHS policy previously (post 210 among others)and in a general election, in sharp contrast to a bye-election, the party po'olicies of all parties are subjected to very close and searing scrutiny. Douglas Carswell was elected in Clacton-on-Sea and a considerable personal vote (he was shown on TV often during the campaign with the commentary "he is genuinely well liked by his constituents") plus a focus on general discontent with politics in general. There was no real focus on any UKIP policy apart form immigration.

In a general election that all changes. Even Thatcher, monster though she was, was not stupid enough to try and fundamentaly change the NHS. Anybody who tries will be burnt badly.

DCon
24-01-2015, 07:29 PM
UKIP MEP joins the tories


David Cameron says he is “absolutely delighted” UKIP MEP Amjad Bashir has defected to the Tories, as it emerges Bashir allegedly met with what UKIP are claiming is a banned terror organisation. UKIP sources say concerns arose when they saw the video above purportedly showing Bashir meeting with Pakistani group MQM, which is banned in Canada on grounds of links to terror. Publicly they are also spinning that that Bashir was suspended following the uncovering of unspecified financial irregularities.

http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

fluffybiscuits
26-01-2015, 09:23 PM
Round up of latest ****** ups from UKIP

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/top-ukip-official-matthew-richardson-forced-to-apologise-after-unforgivable-antitrans-rant-and-shemales-slur-10003421.html

Councillor apologises for calling trans woman 'she male'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/25/ukip-farage-smear-claim-defector-attack-tories

Farrage attempts and fails to smear a candidate who jumped ship

http://rt.com/uk/225575-ukip-anti-semitism-poll/

UKIP voters not comfortable with a Jewish PM


Long live the hilarity!

DCon
06-02-2015, 09:01 AM
UKIP don't do irony


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9JwIDxIQAI_wCQ.jpg

morticia
06-02-2015, 07:35 PM
It appears, however, that the major parties and the media may be doing their best to expose inconsistencies, however. While I'm usually anti the establishment hanging up on people, I'll make an exception in the case of UkIP. Smear away [emoji6]

DCon
26-02-2015, 09:38 PM
Nige looking safe

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-zfA_MUMAALJyq.png

pluralist
27-02-2015, 12:29 AM
Apparently Farage is in the US at the moment banging on about how in Commonist Yurop, the librul political correctness has become so stiflingly oppressive that one can't even mention immigration without being set upon by a rabid horde of feminazi black lesbians from Croydon.

I paraphrase, but only slightly:

http://news.sky.com/story/1434350/farage-to-get-heros-welcome-from-us-group

I am tiring of this one trick pony, and my guess is the UK public is too. I reckon them on getting four seats or so and no more. Reckless might even lose his.

Binn Beal
27-02-2015, 07:00 AM
I suspect that UKIP will increase its vote substantially. The politico-media consensus has badly misjudged the views of the people. The constant lambasting of Farrage is a poor substitute for debating the issues that appears to be of most concern to the voters - immigration and the EU.

morticia
27-02-2015, 08:29 PM
I suspect that UKIP will increase its vote substantially. The politico-media consensus has badly misjudged the views of the people. The constant lambasting of Farrage is a poor substitute for debating the issues that appears to be of most concern to the voters - immigration and the EU.

The concerns the voters are helpfully being reminded of by the rancid Murdoch press.....who are also playing on the UK national superiority complex re Europe.

The chattering classes are on to "Farridge" alright, but they're only 20% of the electorate.

And anyway, the Tories have moved so far to the right re UKIP that they've kind of won anyway, whether they get 4 seats or 40.

Binn Beal
27-02-2015, 11:26 PM
"Farridge". Well done. That'll show them.

fluffybiscuits
05-03-2015, 08:37 PM
The concerns the voters are helpfully being reminded of by the rancid Murdoch press.....who are also playing on the UK national superiority complex re Europe.

The chattering classes are on to "Farridge" alright, but they're only 20% of the electorate.

And anyway, the Tories have moved so far to the right re UKIP that they've kind of won anyway, whether they get 4 seats or 40.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11450075/Ukip-already-has-four-seats-in-the-bag-says-leading-expert-Matthew-Goodwin.html

4 seats in the bag already says one expert.

Disenfranchised Tory voters will move to UKIP

morticia
05-03-2015, 08:40 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11450075/Ukip-already-has-four-seats-in-the-bag-says-leading-expert-Matthew-Goodwin.html

4 seats in the bag already says one expert.

Disenfranchised Tory voters will move to UKIP

No doubt. And I'm spectacularly unhappy with Nige today; apparently he seems to think that it's perfectly understandable that women who have been on maternity leave should get paid less thereafter.

Someone should start making UKIP voodoo dolls. Seethe.

Binn Beal
05-03-2015, 09:00 PM
The issues raised by UKIP are ones that concern the voters of the UK. Until the chattering classes engage with the policies of UKIP and discuss the issues which they raise, UKIP will continue to rise in popularity. Showing pictures of 'Farridge' (that just never ceases to be funny, no matter how ofter I see it) in an awkward pose and calling him schoolyard names, is not going to change anything.

fluffybiscuits
05-03-2015, 09:04 PM
The issues raised by UKIP are ones that concern the voters of the UK. Until the chattering classes engage with the policies of UKIP and discuss the issues which they raise, UKIP will continue to rise in popularity. Showing pictures of 'Farridge' (that just never ceases to be funny, no matter how ofter I see it) in an awkward pose and calling him schoolyard names, is not going to change anything.


Satire is a powerful tool


No doubt. And I'm spectacularly unhappy with Nige today; apparently he seems to think that it's perfectly understandable that women who have been on maternity leave should get paid less thereafter.

Someone should start making UKIP voodoo dolls. Seethe.

Far right and womens rights n'er go hand in hand

DCon
15-03-2015, 08:43 AM
Nidgey willing to prop up the Tories, but not enter a formal Coalition

In return for a 2015 referendum on EU membership





Nigel Farage has outlined the demands he would make in exchange for propping up a Conservative government after the election.

He says: "I would look to do a deal where we would back key votes for them - such as the Budget - but in return for very specific criteria on an EU referendum.

"I want a full and fair referendum to be held in 2015 to allow Britons to vote on being in or out of the European Union. There would be no wiggle room for 're-negotiation' somewhere down the line'."


"It is my strong belief that the four million EU citizens living in the UK without British passports should not be allowed to do so (vote) - and, yes, that includes my German wife.




http://news.sky.com/story/1445322/farage-outlines-election-pact-offer-to-tories

Binn Beal
17-03-2015, 07:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI5_pMvLZd8
Nigel Farrage opposing the EU army proposal and showing why his party is rising in the polls.

fluffybiscuits
24-03-2015, 10:48 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11491399/Campaign-Calculus-Under-PR-Ukip-would-have-99-seats-and-the-Greens-could-be-kingmakers.html

If Britain used proportional representation


Labour is still the largest party, with 213 seats, but the Conservatives are close behind on 201 seats. Now politicians have to put a coalition together which has at least 326 MPs. However there are no possible two-party coalitions, other than the unlikely Con/Lab combination.
Any coalition would have to be an unwieldy three, four, or even six- party affair. Possibilities include: Lab+SDLP+Lib+Green+SNP+PlaidC (with only 328 seats), or Con+UKIP+Lib (with 349 seats but hard to manage), or Con+UKIP+Green (with 337 seats, but even trickier). It would be a recipe for fractious and fractured government.

Terrifying to think of a UKIP majority

Binn Beal
25-03-2015, 07:39 AM
Terrifying to think of a UKIP majority
Why?

fluffybiscuits
26-03-2015, 08:56 PM
Have you seen their policies?

Reminiscent of nezi era Germany

Binn Beal
27-03-2015, 02:54 PM
Have you seen their policies?

Reminiscent of nezi era Germany
No. I read a policy document and didn't see that. Their main target is the EU and the open-immigration policy.

fluffybiscuits
01-04-2015, 08:17 PM
No. I read a policy document and didn't see that. Their main target is the EU and the open-immigration policy.

Targetting minorities?

For certain UKIP wants to militarise the UK even further

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people



– We will resource fully our military assets and personnel.

– UKIP will guarantee those who have served in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 12 years a job in the police force, prison service or border force

– UKIP will change the points system for social housing to give priority to ex-service men and women and those returning from active service.

– A Veterans Department will bring together all veterans services to ensure servicemen and women get the after-service care they deserve.

– Veterans are to receive a Veterans’ Service Card to ensure they are fast tracked for mental health care and services, if needed.

– All entitlements will be extended to servicemen recruited from overseas.

– UKIP supports a National Service Medal for all those who have served in the armed forces.

morticia
01-04-2015, 08:21 PM
Targetting minorities?

For certain UKIP wants to militarise the UK even further

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

UKIP is trying to appeal to the jingoistic "master race" complex present in many if not most Brits....days of glorious empire brainwashed in at school level.
The military superiority is a must have for that mentality. Brace yer selves.

fluffybiscuits
01-04-2015, 09:16 PM
UKIP is trying to appeal to the jingoistic "master race" complex present in many if not most Brits....days of glorious empire brainwashed in at school level.
The military superiority is a must have for that mentality. Brace yer selves.

Hence my comment on nazi esque policies

Hapax
08-04-2015, 04:15 PM
UKIP have updated Schrödinger’s famous thought experiment by insisting that immigrants exist in a state of both lazing around on benefits whilst simultaneously being out there stealing British jobs.

http://tinyurl.com/lgyjmtq

morticia
08-04-2015, 04:17 PM
Nice one..[emoji2]

DCon
09-04-2015, 12:00 AM
Latest poll



YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by two: CON 33%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 14%, GRN 5%

Donal Og
09-04-2015, 06:35 PM
Latest poll
3 polls now show Labour in front - though not by much. UKIP may outpoll the Libdems and end up with only 4 seats. I hate them but it's yet another example of how totally f*cked FPTP really is. Trouble is....anyone who wins a UK election has no incentive to fix it.

PS - hard to believe Millibore is also ahead of Cameron as a leader. The nasty stuff will kick off starting tomorrow!

morticia
09-04-2015, 09:10 PM
Millibore or not, better than the Tories! Good news...[emoji2]

pluralist
09-04-2015, 09:13 PM
3 polls now show Labour in front - though not by much. UKIP may outpoll the Libdems and end up with only 4 seats. I hate them but it's yet another example of how totally f*cked FPTP really is. Trouble is....anyone who wins a UK election has no incentive to fix it.

PS - hard to believe Millibore is also ahead of Cameron as a leader. The nasty stuff will kick off starting tomorrow!

The nasty stuff has been going on since Milliband was first appointed leader and it is motivated solely by Milliband occasionally showing hints of Old Labour or at least not being quite as much of a neo-liberal a Blair. In other words, the nasty stuff is driven by corporate interests and the City of London. Hopefully, the tide is turning and the public are rejecting the right wing smears from a media largely owned by offshore magnates.

morticia
10-04-2015, 05:54 AM
The nasty stuff has been going on since Milliband was first appointed leader and it is motivated solely by Milliband occasionally showing hints of Old Labour or at least not being quite as much of a neo-liberal a Blair. In other words, the nasty stuff is driven by corporate interests and the City of London. Hopefully, the tide is turning and the public are rejecting the right wing smears from a media largely owned by offshore magnates.

Excellent point. I do hope you're right.

Donal Og
10-04-2015, 09:36 AM
Excellent point. I do hope you're right.

Me too.I really think the internet has exposed the Dirty Digger for what he is. And he has shown that there is zero reward for sucking up to him. His crocodile tears over the hacking and police bribery have dried up now it seems. In fact the Murdochs could well be Cameron's Achilles heel and not his shield of armour. The promise to scrap phoney 'non doms' avoiding tax is very popular with the British public.A similar promise to stop private media monopolies would go down well too I believe. Could never happen in our benighted isle however....:(