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C. Flower
13-12-2012, 04:59 PM
Well, someone did it. Keaveney, Chairman of the Labour Party, voted against the Budget and is reportedly expelled from the Labour Parliamentary Party (but not from the Party ?)

He tweeted from the Dail "Acta non Verba" - words not deeds.

The real question for me is, is he calling on Labour to leave the Government?

culmore
13-12-2012, 05:01 PM
The fool he voted confidence last night and voted for bill a few times.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 05:11 PM
The fool he voted confidence last night and voted for bill a few times.

The child benefit cut seemed to be the issue he baulked at.

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/What+the+Keaveney+rebellion+means+for+Labour/id/19410615-5218-50c9-f15d-644b16825427

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Keaveney is going to be live on Six One with Dobbo later.

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 05:24 PM
The fool he voted confidence last night and voted for bill a few times.

His justification for that is that he was hoping for a government u turn at the last moment.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 05:59 PM
Since the first leaks emerged on Budget 2013 I have had deep misgivings on aspects of the Budget in relation to the changes to PRSI, to child benefit, to respite grants and to the overall regressive nature of the budget in terms of income.

Since Monday of last week I have been working to overturn the more odious aspects of this budget. I voted for the measures on the night of the budget in order to allow time myself and other deputies to campaign for the reversal or amelioration of these measures. Even last night I voted for the Second Stage of the Social Welfare Bill in order to allow for an opportunity for an eleventh hour change to be made. I and the other deputies have been unsuccessful in that regard.

Therefore, I have this afternoon voted against the Bill. I could not for reasons of conscience, or on the basis of the mandate that I received from my constituents in Galway East, vote for the measures in this Bill. I simply cannot vote in favour of measures that will have such a negative effect on working families, particularly given the regressive nature of the hits proposed.

I wish my colleagues in the Parliamentary Labour Party well. They are the finest group of people that I have had the honour to work with. It is unfortunate that we found ourselves sharing Government with a Party whose values see an equivalence in seeking to cut welfare to the most vulnerable in our society with a measure to increase the tax paid by those on high incomes. The progressive section of Fine Gael, prevalent to an extent in the FitzGerald era, is now almost entirely absent and that party now seeks to become an Irish Tory Party.

I remain loyal to the Labour Party and to its values and the values of its membership. I am proud of all that the party has achieved throughout their 100 year existence and I will remain a member of the party and continue to work on its behalf.

...

Dr. FIVE
13-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Gilmore


I welcome the passage of the Social Welfare Bill, and I wish to thank all of the Labour TDs and Senators for their support.

Labour went into Government in March 2011, because our country was in trouble, and we wanted to fix it.

Ireland and the Irish people were then, and still are, facing the worst crisis in the history of our state, with enormous human costs. As a country we have lost control of our destiny, and we need to restore it.

The people gave us a mandate to do what it takes to fix this mess. And they wanted us to do it in a way that balanced that absolute need to secure the path ahead of us, with fairness.

I believed then, and I believe now, that Labour’s mission in Government is to fix the problem and to restore the sovereignty of our republic. To fulfil, once more, that which is set out in Article 1 of our Constitution: the right of our nation to choose its own path.

We are here for the men and women who are out of work. People who have lost their livelihoods. People who have been forced to leave their families behind, and emigrate. We are here for every single person who is fearful about their future in an Ireland that is still clawing its way out of a crisis, which has threatened to cast it back decades.
We are here to secure their future, and the future of our country. And unless we do it, the opportunities for work, the opportunities that we, as a party, promote through public services, will not be there.

Ours is not a narrow interest. We are not a single issue party. We will be judged according to what we do with the responsibility that the people have given us. And that is not a responsibility that is confined to single budget measures. It is a responsibility to serve the interests of our people, not just for this week, but for this generation.

We went into Government with our eyes open, knowing there would be difficult decisions and difficult days. Today was one of those days. The social welfare bill contained several difficult provisions. But there were many other provisions that it didn’t contain – options that were not taken, by a Labour Minister who was determined to make the best and fairest decisions in difficult circumstances.

Our country is caught in the grip of the worst economic, financial and jobs crisis ever seen. Reducing the budget deficit is necessary, because the alternative is unthinkable.

The alternative, is not being able to pay welfare at all, not being able to keep schools and hospitals open, not paying wages or pensions.
The alternative is more job losses, and a country sliding further into crisis. The alternative is to go backwards, unwinding the far won progress that we have made.

This budget is difficult, but in the times in which we live, it is a fair budget, and one which in many ways reflects Labour’s core values.

In the century of our history, this is one of the most difficult tasks that Labour has ever taken on. But the essence of the Labour movement is to make the difficult choices. The Labour Party has always stood up to be counted in difficult moments, and done the right thing by the Irish people. Today was one of those days. I am grateful to, and proud of, the Labour Deputies, who had the courage to vote with the Government today.

The responsibility to fix the country exists whether we are in Government or not. We are either shaping the solution, or we are watching it from across the lobby. And whichever we choose, it is from there we’ll be watching the recovery too.

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 06:48 PM
No sign of Keaveney on Six One after all. Did I blink and miss it?

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 06:50 PM
First it was on, then off and finally on again according to Dobbo:confused:

Baron von Biffo
13-12-2012, 06:53 PM
No sign of Keaveney on Six One after all.

Maybe RTE has had one of these fitted.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/change-oil-3.jpg

Dr. FIVE
13-12-2012, 06:54 PM
was on drivetime

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 07:01 PM
was on drivetime

Hmm. Mary Wilson's producer must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse:D

Binn Beal
13-12-2012, 08:26 PM
CF: "Acta non Verba" - words not deeds
'Deeds not words' - write that out 100 times and see me in my study after class.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 09:13 PM
'Deeds not words' - write that out 100 times and see me in my study after class.

I'll see you after I've seen Dr. Freud who called me up earlier over that slip.

Dr. FIVE
13-12-2012, 09:46 PM
Not tenable that Keaveney can stay on as party chairman, says Eamon Gilmore.

Greengoddess
13-12-2012, 09:47 PM
Just off flight. 😨

Shaadi
13-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Well fair play to him he did it, and now we play the waiting game. Let's hope it's something more substantial than an electoral stunt.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 10:15 PM
Not tenable that Keaveney can stay on as party chairman, says Eamon Gilmore.

Is Keaveney positioning himself to take on the Labour Leadership after Gilmore is electorally finished, or is he just acting as a lightning rod / mud guard for Labour ?

The real move needed is not voting against the odd motion, but pulling out of Government and calling for a General Election.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 10:19 PM
Rumours of a number of other TDs about to jump.

Only a rumour mind.

MediaBite
13-12-2012, 11:08 PM
Is Keaveney positioning himself to take on the Labour Leadership after Gilmore is electorally finished, or is he just acting as a lightning rod / mud guard for Labour ?

The real move needed is not voting against the odd motion, but pulling out of Government and calling for a General Election.

+100 The logical thing for him to do, if he is serious, is to call for that. If he doesn't then the whole thing begins to looks like a set-up - a charade to keep people thinking there are lots of folk in Labour who really aren't doing what they just did.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 11:20 PM
+100 The logical thing for him to do, if he is serious, is to call for that. If he doesn't then the whole thing begins to looks like a set-up - a charade to keep people thinking there are lots of folk in Labour who really aren't doing what they just did.

Being interviewed by Vincent Browne now.

He is saying that he was thinking of the children. Bad decisions in the budget on how to make the cuts. Disagrees with burning the bondholders.

Received 400 emails.

Very polite about all his party colleagues.

It has come too late to be seen as pressure on Fine Gael on the budget.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Thinking of his constituency first and foremost, and determined to stay on as Chairman of the Labour Party.

Has confidence in Eamon Gilmore.

Haven't heard Vincent ask him if Labour should stay in Government.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 11:30 PM
Was asked by Vincent if Labour should withdraw from Government.

"I don't think so." Overall, Labour doing a good job.

PaddyJoe
13-12-2012, 11:37 PM
Finding it difficult to believe anything from him after last night's Late Debate. He swore blind that he was going to vote the bill through and that it was the best course of action for the country.
That was after his infamous 'die is cast' tweet which would imply that he had already decided that he was going to vote no before he went on Late Debate and that he was actually lying through his teeth last night.

C. Flower
13-12-2012, 11:51 PM
Finding it difficult to believe anything from him after last night's Late Debate. He swore blind that he was going to vote the bill through and that it was the best course of action for the country.
That was after his infamous 'die is cast' tweet which would imply that he had already decided that he was going to vote no before he went on Late Debate and that he was actually lying through his teeth last night.

Trying to look in two directions at once, and not for the first time.

ang
14-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Something not sitting right with all this.

Let's see what tomorrow brings .................

DCon
14-12-2012, 12:05 AM
Finding it difficult to believe anything from him after last night's Late Debate. He swore blind that he was going to vote the bill through and that it was the best course of action for the country.
That was after his infamous 'die is cast' tweet which would imply that he had already decided that he was going to vote no before he went on Late Debate and that he was actually lying through his teeth last night.

I would guess he was trying to organise a protest group, but all those approached lost their bottle. Being the ring-leader, he had to follow through

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 12:19 AM
Rumours of a number of other TDs about to jump.

Only a rumour mind.

Hearing James Heffernan.

Who?

Senator



shrug

MPB
14-12-2012, 12:43 AM
Keavney is doing nothing more than looking after his seat.

One minute he is voting for the budget, next minute he is not.

I don,t trust him. I don,t trust any of them. But he is right on this.

C. Flower
14-12-2012, 09:58 AM
Hearing James Heffernan.

Who?

Senator

shrug

Making shapes on their mother's sofa *shrugs*

Baron von Biffo
14-12-2012, 11:18 AM
Keaveney insisting he will stay on as chair of the party.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/keaveney-expected-to-be-removed-as-chair-216980.html

So he wants to have his cake and eat it. Vote against the party because it's electorally expedient but stay on the inside to be well placed for preferment under Gilmore's successor after the next GE.

C. Flower
14-12-2012, 11:26 AM
Keaveney insisting he will stay on as chair of the party.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/keaveney-expected-to-be-removed-as-chair-216980.html

So he wants to have his cake and eat it. Vote against the party because it's electorally expedient but stay on the inside to be well placed for preferment under Gilmore's successor after the next GE.

Does he not want to lead the Party himself, perhaps ?

Baron von Biffo
14-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Does he not want to lead the Party himself, perhaps ?

Well they do say that every corporal has a field marshal's baton in his knapsack.

Baron von Biffo
14-12-2012, 11:41 AM
Discussing this on Plank now. Alex White saying that Lab chairs are appointed at their conferences and the next one isn't until next year.

Does Lab have a 'conduct unbecoming' provision in its rules that might facilitate prising Keaveney from office?

Baron von Biffo
14-12-2012, 11:42 AM
Emmet Stagg has called on Keavney to resign the chair. Says his position is untenable.

jmcc
14-12-2012, 11:55 AM
Guess the Stickie glue that Gilmore, Rabbite et al depend on is beginning to melt in the heat. :) They are going to destroy Labour to save their pensions.

Regards...jmcc

goatstoe
14-12-2012, 12:05 PM
There's 3 different threads on this discussing more or less the same issues, a bit like the Labour Party pulling in different directions and beginning to crumble.

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Anyone know the Latin for stalking horse?

disability student
14-12-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't trust Keaveney as his head are in two places although he was honest lot better than Gimme more or Rabble rouser or Ho Chin Quinn. There are signs of Labour dis unity there.

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 06:56 PM
bout bloody time too

simonj
14-12-2012, 09:42 PM
Does he not want to lead the Party himself, perhaps ?
It was not just football we were taught in St Jarlaths, a shared Alma Mater !
SJC - ducimus - He is the obvious choice for a new generation.
He is not short of ambitionis in any sense of the word, be it pomp,ambition or canvassing votes, he never was.

With these cutbacks and taxes, Kenny and Gilmore, in their Dail bubble (caput inter nubila)are pulling both Labour and FG into a death spin, but then again abyssus abyssum invocat.

Shorthall, Penrose, Nulty, Broughan and now Keaveney - caetera desunt !!

Gilmore and Rabbitte are perhaps jealous that Keaveney did what they could not do - get a socialist seat in East Galway.
They are also ex Workers Party, Gilmore was certainly more inclined to support David Norris for the presidency that Higgins so there is that dynamic to consider.
The current ex-WP willingness to toe the FG line is not shared a pedibus usque ad caput - if you pardon the pun.

As for the rest of it - the use of punitive taxes on the public like a property tax on the family home - not evenproperly ad valorem - and imminent charges on water, just to help out a few banksters? - this precept is falsis principiis proficisci - buggfer that - Non sequitur est.

The sheer level of gombeenism with Gilmore and in particular James Reilly is now more apparent with social media and is going to cost a great deal to the back benches, incertae sedis after all.
Perhaps they should adopt Mayor Quimby's motto - corruptus in extremis

And Colm, Nil carborundum ab illegitimati

simonj
14-12-2012, 10:31 PM
SJC - ducimus - He is the obvious choice for a new generation.
He is not short of ambitionis in any sense of the word, be it pomp,ambition or canvassing votes, he never was.

Irish Times
' Some of Keaveney’s colleagues – mostly the new intake, we didn’t see any of the Ministers offer soothing words – shook his hand...........erstwhile parliamentary party colleagues had already skipped up the steps to the lobbies, leaving him with Róisín Shorthall, Tommy Broughan and Patrick Nulty, three of Labour’s growing band of five exiles.'

I have felt for some time it was just a matter of time.
Galway West will probably lose its Labour seat to Sinn Fein if there was an election tomorrow. Derek Nolan (or Derek No-One as he is known in Connemara) was the wrong choice after Michael D.

Spectabilis
14-12-2012, 10:32 PM
Deliriant isti Romani:)

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 10:52 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-FDaQmCEAI29tk.png:large

simonj
14-12-2012, 10:52 PM
Deliriant isti Romani:)

Etiam Dvblanii - inter alios, e.g. Hibernici in toti

C. Flower
14-12-2012, 10:58 PM
@Dr.FIVE, @simonj - you've been blogged.

http://itsapoliticalworld.wordpress.com/

Baron von Biffo
14-12-2012, 11:00 PM
Did the minister for Lifestyle Choices support him or was it a case of 'Et tu Burton'?

simonj
14-12-2012, 11:16 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-FDaQmCEAI29tk.png:large

Fecking love it - wish I had thought of it!!

Quemadmodum stultus est Kenny, sic stultissimus est Gilmore

Dr. FIVE
15-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Keaveney


Commentary from some Government Ministers and other senior party members on my recent decision to oppose aspects of the contained in the Social Welfare Bill is only serving to bring politics into even further disrepute. In my own comments on the events of recent days, I have sought to be measured focusing on issues of policy and principle. Some of my concerns about the budgetary process have now been echoed by a Government Minister, Simon Coveney particular in the relationship between the Economic Management Committee and the rest of the Cabinet

homer
15-12-2012, 02:50 PM
It was not just football we were taught in St Jarlaths, a shared Alma Mater !
SJC - ducimus - He is the obvious choice for a new generation.
He is not short of ambitionis in any sense of the word, be it pomp,ambition or canvassing votes, he never was.

With these cutbacks and taxes, Kenny and Gilmore, in their Dail bubble (caput inter nubila)are pulling both Labour and FG into a death spin, but then again abyssus abyssum invocat.

Shorthall, Penrose, Nulty, Broughan and now Keaveney - caetera desunt !!

Gilmore and Rabbitte are perhaps jealous that Keaveney did what they could not do - get a socialist seat in East Galway.
They are also ex Workers Party, Gilmore was certainly more inclined to support David Norris for the presidency that Higgins so there is that dynamic to consider.
The current ex-WP willingness to toe the FG line is not shared a pedibus usque ad caput - if you pardon the pun.

As for the rest of it - the use of punitive taxes on the public like a property tax on the family home - not evenproperly ad valorem - and imminent charges on water, just to help out a few banksters? - this precept is falsis principiis proficisci - buggfer that - Non sequitur est.

The sheer level of gombeenism with Gilmore and in particular James Reilly is now more apparent with social media and is going to cost a great deal to the back benches, incertae sedis after all.
Perhaps they should adopt Mayor Quimby's motto - corruptus in extremis

And Colm, Nil carborundum ab illegitimati

Gosh - and I always thought Jarlaths just concentrated on Gaelic football

simonj
15-12-2012, 09:25 PM
No, we had hurling as well

PaddyJoe
15-12-2012, 11:24 PM
It was not just football we were taught in St Jarlaths, a shared Alma Mater !
SJC - ducimus - He is the obvious choice for a new generation.
He is not short of ambitionis in any sense of the word, be it pomp,ambition or canvassing votes, he never was.

With these cutbacks and taxes, Kenny and Gilmore, in their Dail bubble (caput inter nubila)are pulling both Labour and FG into a death spin, but then again abyssus abyssum invocat.

Shorthall, Penrose, Nulty, Broughan and now Keaveney - caetera desunt !!

Gilmore and Rabbitte are perhaps jealous that Keaveney did what they could not do - get a socialist seat in East Galway.
They are also ex Workers Party, Gilmore was certainly more inclined to support David Norris for the presidency that Higgins so there is that dynamic to consider.
The current ex-WP willingness to toe the FG line is not shared a pedibus usque ad caput - if you pardon the pun.

As for the rest of it - the use of punitive taxes on the public like a property tax on the family home - not evenproperly ad valorem - and imminent charges on water, just to help out a few banksters? - this precept is falsis principiis proficisci - buggfer that - Non sequitur est.

The sheer level of gombeenism with Gilmore and in particular James Reilly is now more apparent with social media and is going to cost a great deal to the back benches, incertae sedis after all.
Perhaps they should adopt Mayor Quimby's motto - corruptus in extremis

And Colm, Nil carborundum ab illegitimati

Nice post. Sounds like you stayed awake in Latin class:D

Dr. FIVE
16-12-2012, 04:33 PM
Sherlock says Keaveney's views are not in line with those of the party and therefore he should not remain as chairman.

culmore
16-12-2012, 04:39 PM
Keaveney just looking to get re elected as an Ind.

jmcc
16-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Sherlock says Keaveney's views are not in line with those of the party and therefore he should not remain as chairman.Isn't Sherlock another Stickie?

Regards...jmcc

Greengoddess
16-12-2012, 06:02 PM
Sherlock says Keaveney's views are not in line with those of the party and therefore he should not remain as chairman.
What is meant by the ' Party' at this point is sadly debatable. Is it the plp or the members. As I once said, much to the delight of CF, PP's in gov often begin to find their members a nuisance.

goatstoe
16-12-2012, 07:00 PM
Isn't Sherlock another Stickie?

Regards...jmcc

Yes Sherlock is a Stick, his old man was Joe Sherlock (SFWP and DL etc.). The Stickies will not relinquish their stranglehold of the Labour Party easily, they'd sooner destroy the whole Labour movement than relinquish control. Keaveney will not be ousted as Chairman easily either, big bun fight on the way when the Sticks try to oust him. It's going to get dirty I reckon.

CMK
16-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Yes Sherlock is a Stick, his old man was Joe Sherlock (SFWP and DL etc.). The Stickies will not relinquish their stranglehold of the Labour Party easily, they'd sooner destroy the whole Labour movement than relinquish control. Keaveney will not be ousted as Chairman easily either, big bun fight on the way when the Sticks try to oust him. It's going to get dirty I reckon.

Of course, as is the case for every Irish person, the politics of one's father determines the child's politics. I don't hold a candle for Sherlock but to describe him as a 'Stickie' because his oul' fella was one one is pushing it, surely? He always struck me as a pretty straightforward Irish Labour politician: sloshing about in sub-Blairite political swill, long past its sell-by date, while trying to get ahead and not look too much out of his depth.

goatstoe
16-12-2012, 07:21 PM
Of course, as is the case for every Irish person, the politics of one's father determines the child's politics. I don't hold a candle for Sherlock but to describe him as a 'Stickie' because his oul' fella was one one is pushing it, surely? He always struck me as a pretty straightforward Irish Labour politician: sloshing about in sub-Blairite political swill, long past its sell-by date, while trying to get ahead and not look too much out of his depth.

Sherlock Jnr worked for Pronsious De Rossa in his office in Europe before taking over from Sherlock Snr in his own political career. Sherlock Jnr would be naturally affiliated and loyal to the current Stickie dominated leadership I'd say - for as long as they maintain control that is. Interesting times ahead in Labour.

Dr. FIVE
16-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Could be the best thing for them if the membership start asking themselves a few hard questions and even harder ones of the leadership. In contrast to their predecessors who, after the digouts, after the tent, after the collapse, after the guarantee, after NAMA, after four austerity budgets and finally after the arrival of the IMF mounted a vague attempt to reclaim the party, renew, 'stand up and be counted'. The Labour membership are somewhat trying to get the party back on track after only a year in office. What results will come of the CfLP efforts remains to be seen but the initiative is certain to become increasingly relevant as time goes on and they do deserve credit for challenging the direction when we can safely assume supporters of other parties would blindly defend every decision.

If not the PLP at least some in Labour learned having witnessed the last regime. No better illustration of this widening gap then Gilmore hiring more PR to focus on Labour's 'communication strategy' while seemingly zero effort was made to calculate the atrocious effect of Howlin's cuts and put serious research into alternatives.

CMK
16-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Sherlock Jnr worked for Pronsious De Rossa in his office in Europe before taking over from Sherlock Snr in his own political career. Sherlock Jnr would be naturally affiliated and loyal to the current Stickie dominated leadership I'd say - for as long as they maintain control that is. Interesting times ahead in Labour.

OK, I didn't know that. So, he was politically formed within the former Stickie millieux. But was De Rossa still a 'Stickie' when young Sherlock was cutting his teeth with him? I don't think so. 'Democratic Left' were well on their way to eventual executors of global capitalism by the time young Sean got the nod from Prionsias. I doubt the latter spent too much time going over the finer points of Marxism with his protege.

simonj
20-12-2012, 01:43 PM
Yes Sherlock is a Stick, his old man was Joe Sherlock (SFWP and DL etc.). The Stickies will not relinquish their stranglehold of the Labour Party easily, they'd sooner destroy the whole Labour movement than relinquish control. Keaveney will not be ousted as Chairman easily either, big bun fight on the way when the Sticks try to oust him. It's going to get dirty I reckon.

Labour senator James Heffernan voted against the Government

There are 5 Labour TD's and now one Senator totally on the outs.
In 2011 Labour got 37 seats, their best result ever at the tail end of possibly the least popular Government in the history of the state, so that can be seen as an artificially inflated number of TD's.

When you look at it through stats and demographics, it gets worse for Gilmore.

Gilmore has lost over 10% of his Dail deputies already, an MEP and a Senator!!
So it is thin ice. I personally estimate that he is holding the leadership of the party - I recon - by about 55% for 45% against - take in about 5% unsure/undecided and you are looking at a 50/50 split.

In May polling the decline in Labour support cause serious concern for the party.
Support almost halved since the election and Labour trailed Sinn Féin in all parts of the country.

The satisfaction rating of Eamon Gilmore continued to slip far off the rating he held when Labour was in opposition.

In October the polls had finally stabilised, at 12%, that is bedrock support.
There is an increased flow of dissent which will become harder to staunch, particularly when the next generation start to follow Keaveney and Heffernan.

Some may go out of genuine conviction, but most others will go for self preservation - in particular those on the back benches will want, and need, to publically express dissent to appease their own grass roots and raise their profiles.
Supporting Gilmore post Budget is a sure way of losing a marginal seat by losing floating voters.

Worse still is that those on the Left who feel the bailout and the cuts are wrong have only one alternative to look at, thats Sinn Fein.

Labour will pay a far higher cost for these measures than FG - simply because their supporters will be closer to SF in terms of Social issues than FG's base.

In Galway West, Derek Nolan (or Derek NoWan as he is known outside town) will lose his seat to Senator Trevor Clougherty if he continues to support cuts and extra charges on septic tanks etc in a very rural constituancy.

The most vocal supporters of Gilmore are the old guard who have been rewarded for their fealty with highly lucrative, pensionable ministries and family quangos.
Joe Costello, Ho Chi Quinn, Rabbitte, Howling Brendan and Burton are all Ministers, Joe Costello's wife Emer was appointed as an MEP after P De Rossa stood down, this somewhat attenuated the damage done by Nessa Childers dissent.

So the ones to watch will generally be the 10 between 21-40 as they have the most to loose in the future i.e. Sean Sherlock, Arthur Spring, Michael McNamara, Alan Kelly, Gerald Nash, Aodhan O'Riordain, Michael McCarthy, John Lyons, Derek Nolan and Ciara Conway.

Senator Lorraine Higgins can be discounted from this group as she has openly supported the cuts, but this could be with an eye on Labour votes from Keaveney to get an East Galway TD position.

Sherlock - as previously pointed out - is genetically WP/DL and the current level of the Labour party is as good as they will ever get whilst in the driving seat.

There are 11 in the 40-50 demographic. Ciarán Lynch, Ann Phelan, Joanna Tuffy, Dominic Hannigan and Colm Keaveney

Senators: Mary Moran, Denis Landy, Susan O'Keeffe, John Gilroy and Aideen Hayden

Also with this group is Senator Ivana Bacik who, with retiring Dublin Labour TD's, if there is any justice in the world pick up enough votes to become a TD.

Then there are the Student Prince generation with a strong Democratic Left contingent - 50-60: 16 of them, and 13 over 60's totaling 29.

Eamonn Maloney, Kathleen Lynch, Roisin Shortall, Robert Dowds, Eamon Gilmore, Willie Penrose, Anne Ferris, Brendan Howlin, Kevin Humphreys, Alex White
Senators: Jimmy Harte, Marie Moloney, John Whelan, John Kelly.
MEPs: Nessa Childers, Phil Prendergast, Emer Costello

At 60+: Sean Kenny, Joe Costello, Michael Conaghan, Jack Wall, Emmet Stagg, Ruairi Quinn, Eric Byrne, Tommy Broughan, Pat Rabbitte, Joan Burton, Brendan Ryan, Jan O'Sullivan.

If there is going to be a change of leadership

birdy
22-12-2012, 08:07 PM
It was always well known that Keaveney was a thorn in the side of Labour bigwigs (Burton aside). He was going to have to do something. This is ideal ina away for him and keeps his profile high especially the chairman issue. That being said I really feel that Labour have lost their way.

PaddyJoe
28-12-2012, 12:39 AM
A kangaroo court? Surely not?

“It is being suggested that the leadership of the Labour Party intends to use a kangaroo-court-type system to remove my membership of the party and de facto the chairmanship of the party,” Mr Keaveney said yesterday. “While nothing would surprise me, I find it ironic that this much effort would be made to depose me.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1228/1224328226989.html

Greengoddess
28-12-2012, 08:44 AM
A kangaroo court? Surely not?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1228/1224328226989.html

My post from another thread. " Re: Labour/Fine Gael v Irish Social Media: Exactly who is bullying whom?
The culture of bullying exists inside ALL political parties themselves and is widely colluded with by the political class and the media as being normal behaviour. This results in the progressive brutalisation of at least some of our politicians who are forced to engage with this culture. Others were probably born that way and exhibit the signs of anti social personalities. The ethos of democratic centralism, to compound matters , feeds this tendency into the Labour Party. ( The utterances for instance, about Colm Keaveney) This should matter as we then have these numbed people negotiating on our behalf with the Troika and passing budgets that take money from Carers.

C. Flower
28-12-2012, 10:35 AM
My post from another thread. " Re: Labour/Fine Gael v Irish Social Media: Exactly who is bullying whom?
The culture of bullying exists inside ALL political parties themselves and is widely colluded with by the political class and the media as being normal behaviour. This results in the progressive brutalisation of at least some of our politicians who are forced to engage with this culture. Others were probably born that way and exhibit the signs of anti social personalities. The ethos of democratic centralism, to compound matters , feeds this tendency into the Labour Party. ( The utterances for instance, about Colm Keaveney) This should matter as we then have these numbed people negotiating on our behalf with the Troika and passing budgets that take money from Carers.

For me, one of the reasons for setting this place up was to allow real political debate to take place as so little of it takes place within the parties and virtually none between them. For many people, that would not be possible in any kind of an open way without anonymity.

Greengoddess
28-12-2012, 10:52 AM
I agree , CF. the position of public reps online in such fora as this is, I think, informed by different parameters. I consider it my duty to be " known ". There are risks to this however . Those Party apparatchiks who are tasked with' watching' are indeed doing just that! These people that Colm talks about hide their own identities. One is therefore revealing ideas and intentions that to people who will do many things to protect the status quo. You are also going to be made answerable by other posters .This is the whole point of it, if uncomfortable. However, this is mitigated by the need to engage in debate outside press releases and radio programs. Twitter is important but not for proper intelligent debate. Although it can be signposts to same. I would encourage as many labour members as possible to join discussion on PW and they should remain anonymous.

Dr. FIVE
29-12-2012, 11:02 PM
Sindo says the executive board have requested legal advice

Greengoddess
29-12-2012, 11:09 PM
Oh dear.

I wonder is it the same one that told them they could expel meps , which turned out to be in breach of European law.

PaddyJoe
29-12-2012, 11:19 PM
Oh dear.

I wonder is it the same one that told them they could expel meps , which turned out to be in breach of European law.

Really? Do tell:)

Greengoddess
29-12-2012, 11:30 PM
This is where I should be anonymous......

PaddyJoe
29-12-2012, 11:39 PM
This is where I should be anonymous......

There's feckin' hundreds of MEPs, last time I looked. That's anonymity;)

Saoirse go Deo
29-12-2012, 11:42 PM
For me, one of the reasons for setting this place up was to allow real political debate to take place as so little of it takes place within the parties and virtually none between them. For many people, that would not be possible in any kind of an open way without anonymity.
In my experience engaging in political debate within a party leads to having what you said during that debate twisted, misrepresented and disingenuously brought up by someone at an opportune time, most likely behind your back.

For example, Saoirse go Deo questioning the implementation of tory budget cuts (albeit mitigated cuts) in the north and the high level of protest over the arrest of Padraig Wilson a while back in Belfast in comparison to the muted protests over Marian Price, is reported back to others as Saoirse go Deo saying SF are Tories and Padraig Wilson should be in jail. This type of carry on is rampant, and it's simply people trying to position themselves and gain advancement. So if you want to advance, defend the party line and bury others who question it even a little (these are people who do it behind closed doors, I can understand burying people if they do it in public). Don't bother coming up with your own line.

It's probably worse in other parties.

Makes me sick.

Dr. FIVE
29-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Spent the xmas watching RTÉ News Now. Repeats of Behind closed doors & One to One.
De Rossa interview was still very interesting re Cardiff

Greengoddess
29-12-2012, 11:51 PM
Spent the xmas watching RTÉ News Now. Repeats of Behind closed doors & One to One.
De Rossa interview was still very interesting re Cardiff
I didn't know he said anything .

C. Flower
29-12-2012, 11:59 PM
In my experience engaging in political debate within a party leads to having what you said during that debate twisted, misrepresented and disingenuously brought up by someone at an opportune time, most likely behind your back.

For example, Saoirse go Deo questioning the implementation of tory budget cuts (albeit mitigated cuts) in the north and the high level of protest over the arrest of Padraig Wilson a while back in Belfast in comparison to the muted protests over Marian Price, is reported back to others as Saoirse go Deo saying SF are Tories and Padraig Wilson should be in jail. This type of carry on is rampant, and it's simply people trying to position themselves and gain advancement. So if you want to advance, defend the party line and bury others who question it even a little (these are people who do it behind closed doors, I can understand burying people if they do it in public). Don't bother coming up with your own line.

It's probably worse in other parties.

Makes me sick.

Yes. That is very common in parties and that culture allows entire parties to be hijacked by a very small number of people.

If people form a significant tendency within a party, they may have a chance to argue their points, but in general, party "debate" is more about who can most closely second guess the leadership and spout off the last agreed line.

While I don't always agree with the resulting policy, Eirigi seems to do things differently, or at least they say they do. They seem to carry out lengthy policy discussion throughout the membership before positions are reached. Which goes to show that it can be done.

Dr. FIVE
30-12-2012, 12:01 AM
Just a similar line to the Marian Finucane at the time.

Suppose where some people have Willy Wonka at xmas, others find there nostalgia elsewhere :)

PaddyJoe
30-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Spent the xmas watching RTÉ News Now. Repeats of Behind closed doors & One to One.
De Rossa interview was still very interesting re Cardiff

This one?
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/11/28/kevin-cardiff-the-proinsias-de-rossa-defence/

Dr. FIVE
30-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Y Eirigi seems to do things differently, or at least they say they do.

only because they have the luxury no doubt. It's amazing the dissonance that goes on in political parties. Shows how organised religion or even mornarchy got off the ground.

Again this is where the Campaign for labour policy should be commended. Even if there is a certain level of self-interest involved, anyone organising publicly against the party direction should be welcomed regardless of party. Beats the baying defence that we're used to.

Dr. FIVE
30-12-2012, 12:09 AM
This one?
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/11/28/kevin-cardiff-the-proinsias-de-rossa-defence/

yeah, that one to one series was quite good. Pity it was always clashing with Vinb at the time.
The in depth interview is all but confined to radio these days and often the surpasses the panel stuff we're now used to.

C. Flower
30-12-2012, 12:09 AM
only because they have the luxury no doubt. It's amazing the dissonance that goes on with some people in political parties. Shows how organised religion got of the ground.

Again this is where the Campaign for labour policy should be commended. Even if there is a certain level of self-interest involved, anyone organising publicly against the party direction should be welcomed regardless of party. Beats the baying defence that we're used to.

They are a small party, which makes it easier, and they are influenced by anarchism and direct democracy.

If people join a party because it has a strong practice of horizontal democracy, then it has some change of keeping that as an organisational culture.

Dr. FIVE
30-12-2012, 12:11 AM
Something we will hopefully see develop further if occupy and the various springs are to have any legacy, outside the immediate.

C. Flower
30-12-2012, 12:15 AM
Something we will hopefully see develop further if occupy and the various springs are to have any legacy, outside the immediate.

Yes. The weakness of Occupy was that it was hijacked by one dubious guy who promoted the requirement for a unanimous vote, which was crippling.

Eirigi protect minority views by allowing them to exist as acknowledged tendencies, but still are able to take a majority decision on policy and act on it.

Greengoddess
30-12-2012, 10:07 AM
They are a small party, which makes it easier, and they are influenced by anarchism and direct democracy.

If people join a party because it has a strong practice of horizontal democracy, then it has some change of keeping that as an organisational culture.

Didn't help the Greens

C. Flower
30-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Didn't help the Greens

When push came to shove, the Greens from what I heard rode rough shod over direct democracy.

One of the reasons so many people left.

The people at the centre of any organisation, running it from day to day, inevitably have disproportionate power in that organisation.

Finding means to control that, without drastically losing efficiency, is the challenge.

Apjp
30-12-2012, 02:39 PM
I agree , CF. the position of public reps online in such fora as this is, I think, informed by different parameters. I consider it my duty to be " known ". There are risks to this however . Those Party apparatchiks who are tasked with' watching' are indeed doing just that! These people that Colm talks about hide their own identities. One is therefore revealing ideas and intentions that to people who will do many things to protect the status quo. You are also going to be made answerable by other posters .This is the whole point of it, if uncomfortable. However, this is mitigated by the need to engage in debate outside press releases and radio programs. Twitter is important but not for proper intelligent debate. Although it can be signposts to same. I would encourage as many labour members as possible to join discussion on PW and they should remain anonymous.

The Labour party, like FF, is increasingly becoming like the old Irish parliamentary party. events seem to be overtaking the status quo here. We have already seen the near destruction of one pillar of the Irish political establishment. If any Labour party is to survive, it will have to be from the 5-10 TD's and senators who object to this current governments horrible policies and others who might support them in different political institutions.

It is a possibility that we are slowly witnessing the end of the status quo in Ireland in a political sense, although this may take some years and some harsh lessons to be ingrained into the psyche of the Irish voters who really have to start thinking of what type a society they want rather than what type of a Gombeen they admire.

Apjp
30-12-2012, 02:41 PM
I do not think the senate should be scrapped though. It could be a useful forum if it was open to the public at large to run for, and had more oversight of Dail activity.

Greengoddess
30-12-2012, 02:45 PM
I do not think the senate should be scrapped though. It could be a useful forum if it was open to the public at large to run for, and had more oversight of Dail activity.
+1

Greengoddess
30-12-2012, 02:46 PM
"It is a possibility that we are slowly witnessing the end of the status quo in Ireland in a political sense, although this may take some years and some harsh lessons to be ingrained into the psyche of the Irish voters who really have to start thinking of what type a society they want rather than what type of a Gombeen they admire."

We don't have that kind of time.

Apjp
30-12-2012, 02:47 PM
It is quite ridiculous though that the Seanad is abolished just to save each of us about 3 euro. What harm could it do to let anybody run for the seanad, and maybe half or do away with Government nominees? It must all be about avoiding oversight of legislation.

Apjp
30-12-2012, 02:50 PM
"It is a possibility that we are slowly witnessing the end of the status quo in Ireland in a political sense, although this may take some years and some harsh lessons to be ingrained into the psyche of the Irish voters who really have to start thinking of what type a society they want rather than what type of a Gombeen they admire."

We don't have that kind of time.

No, those in politics or certain aforementioned parties do not. The Irish people do, even if they will suffer in the mean time. Unlike the politicians, they only know survival and will not look for an alternative until the status quo is done away with. I cannot see any significant change in Irish politics without 1. an internal collapse of the state, which we could get over the next few years and 2. External pressure by Creditors of unimaginable proportions-we will probably get that after Merkel gets re-elected next year.

Saoirse go Deo
30-12-2012, 03:01 PM
They are a small party, which makes it easier, and they are influenced by anarchism and direct democracy.

If people join a party because it has a strong practice of horizontal democracy, then it has some change of keeping that as an organisational culture.
They also acknowledge that electoral politics will not bring about the changes needed, but rather a mass movement will. Elections are only a tactic and part of the plan.

However the main factor is that eirigi are not successful and are not a good destination for people who want to get elected or get a career out of it. What advancement is there in eirigi? What power is there to be got? What paid positions are there within the party?

At most if someone is extremely lucky they may get elected to a council. I think that is more a curse than a stroke of luck if I'm honest.

Of course there will still be bullying and backstabbing but there will be less of it, because there are no rich prizes on offer.

I was very impressed with the way eirigi say they reached a position on abortion, that the type of decision making process you are referring to?

Greengoddess
30-12-2012, 03:59 PM
No, those in politics or certain aforementioned parties do not. The Irish people do, even if they will suffer in the mean time. Unlike the politicians, they only know survival and will not look for an alternative until the status quo is done away with. I cannot see any significant change in Irish politics without 1. an internal collapse of the state, which we could get over the next few years and 2. External pressure by Creditors of unimaginable proportions-we will probably get that after Merkel gets re-elected next year.
I meant the Irish people

C. Flower
15-01-2013, 05:55 PM
Noticed this yesterday, but was caught up with other things. Colm Keaveney calling for the Labour Conference to be brought forward to April, to vote on whether or not he should keep his position.

This seems to be to be entirely proper and democratic.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/keaveney-calls-for-emergency-conference-219544.html

Greengoddess
15-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Noticed this yesterday, but was caught up with other things. Colm Keaveney calling for the Labour Conference to be brought forward to April, to vote on whether or not he should keep his position.

This seems to be to be entirely proper and democratic.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/keaveney-calls-for-emergency-conference-219544.html
Which is why it won't happen, of course....::mad:

C. Flower
15-01-2013, 06:01 PM
They also acknowledge that electoral politics will not bring about the changes needed, but rather a mass movement will. Elections are only a tactic and part of the plan.

However the main factor is that eirigi are not successful and are not a good destination for people who want to get elected or get a career out of it. What advancement is there in eirigi? What power is there to be got? What paid positions are there within the party?

At most if someone is extremely lucky they may get elected to a council. I think that is more a curse than a stroke of luck if I'm honest.

Of course there will still be bullying and backstabbing but there will be less of it, because there are no rich prizes on offer.

I was very impressed with the way eirigi say they reached a position on abortion, that the type of decision making process you are referring to?

Sorry I was slow to reply to this. Yes, that is the sort of process I had in mind - where the leadership and members take part in a lengthy and thorough discussion on an issue and then vote on it - and that if there is a minority position it can act as a faction internally, whilst keeping to the party position externally. I think they spent a couple of years discussing their first main position paper/programme.

Greengoddess
15-01-2013, 06:06 PM
The Austrian Chancellor is here. He actually talks about capitalism and stuff. Believe it or not. Listen and weep.

Greengoddess
15-01-2013, 06:17 PM
That sounded ambiguous ! I meant that I was envious.

Shaadi
15-01-2013, 07:53 PM
That sounded ambiguous ! I meant that I was envious.No need to be, I'm sure the Tanaiste is very well versed in anti-capitalist ideology. The political impotence of being a vassal state tends to make such talk redundant, there's no need for leaders to spout political theory when they've little or no say in the running of their own country, and could care less.

We're all Europeans, only some Europeans are more equal than others.:rolleyes:

Greengoddess
16-01-2013, 09:00 AM
No need to be, I'm sure the Tanaiste is very well versed in anti-capitalist ideology. The political impotence of being a vassal state tends to make such talk redundant, there's no need for leaders to spout political theory when they've little or no say in the running of their own country, and could care less.

We're all Europeans, only some Europeans are more equal than others.:rolleyes:

We could at least seem to TRY. I notice that Howlin will not chair any Ecofin meetings during the presidency . Marginalizing us.

C. Flower
16-01-2013, 09:53 AM
We could at least seem to TRY. I notice that Howlin will not chair any Ecofin meetings during the presidency . Marginalizing us.

Who decides on who Chairs ?

Greengoddess
16-01-2013, 10:10 AM
Who decides on who Chairs ?

I think, the government .

DCon
16-01-2013, 10:15 AM
I think, the government .

Fine Gael you mean!

DCon
17-01-2013, 11:19 AM
The Dail are currently voting on a motion to remove Keaveney (and Tobin I think) from their respective committees without debate.

FG and their Labour lobby fodder wanted to rush this through but M Martin opposed it. Hence the vote.

DCon
17-01-2013, 11:24 AM
The Dail are currently voting on a motion to remove Keaveney (and Tobin I think) from their respective committees without debate.

FG and their Labour lobby fodder wanted to rush this through but M Martin opposed it. Hence the vote.

Ta 91
Nil 32

C. Flower
17-01-2013, 11:52 AM
Colm Keaveney removed from several Oireachtas Committees.

Only to be expected, when someone is outside the PP.

http://www.newstalk.ie/Colm-Keaveney-removed-from-several-Oireachtas-Committees

ang
17-01-2013, 12:04 PM
I think its bullying to remove from committee.

It also highlights the jobs for the boys mentality of politicians.

fluffybiscuits
17-01-2013, 12:23 PM
I think its bullying to remove from committee.

It also highlights the jobs for the boys mentality of politicians.

+1

Like Lord of the Flies

Isolation is one method by which bullies attain their respective power. If reinforces a belief in the other person that they are somehow powerless and undermines their dignity.

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 08:52 AM
Colm Keaveney on RTE now using the words bullying, harrassing and threatening about Labour Party leadership and Gilmore.

He says that the grass roots should decide.

He is pointing out that the previous Chair of the Party was not member of the Parliamentary Party.

He sounds pressured.

He says he has written to Eamon Gilmore to bring the conference forward to discuss the Chair and also Labour actions in government.

DCon
18-01-2013, 08:54 AM
I think its bullying to remove from committee.

It also highlights the jobs for the boys mentality of politicians.

Committee places are monetary rewards dished out by party hierarchy for good behaviour

Richardbouvet
18-01-2013, 11:50 AM
I assume the vote to remove Keavney from the committees was supported by some Labour TDs. If so, the fact that they would do this to their own comrade, for the crime of voting against respite care cuts, shows the utterly defeated mindset of those labour backbenchers.

jmcc
18-01-2013, 11:56 AM
Isolation is one method by which bullies attain their respective power. If reinforces a belief in the other person that they are somehow powerless and undermines their dignity.No wonder Social Media and the Internet scares these people.

Regards...jmcc

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 12:20 PM
No wonder Social Media and the Internet scares these people.

Regards...jmcc

On the nail.

People who are subjected to "threatening, bullying and harrassment" by Party organisations have somewhere to turn to for support.

Whatever about his politics, Keaveney has right on his side in terms of party democracy and his right not to be abused, and he and others in that position will get support.

The same seems to have happened in the SWP in the UK.

Keaveney sounded determined but shaken up this morning. I would love an mp3 file of whatever it was he had had to listen to, but that is not likely to happen.

It is a possibility that bullies should consider though, when they are unleashing their bile and vituperation.

toxic avenger
18-01-2013, 12:56 PM
Anyone condemning the action against Keaveney even remotely bothered by the action against Peadar Toibin? Or is it just the causes we agree with?

fluffybiscuits
18-01-2013, 01:08 PM
On the nail.

People who are subjected to "threatening, bullying and harrassment" by Party organisations have somewhere to turn to for support.

Whatever about his politics, Keaveney has right on his side in terms of party democracy and his right not to be abused, and he and others in that position will get support.

The same seems to have happened in the SWP in the UK.

Keaveney sounded determined but shaken up this morning. I would love an mp3 file of whatever it was he had had to listen to, but that is not likely to happen.

It is a possibility that bullies should consider though, when they are unleashing their bile and vituperation.

Very true, the internet and social media especially gives a platform to those whom otherwise would be drowned out in a sea of voices.

Consider that there is now self help groups, forums etc. Internet can be a tool that is used for malicious purposes but as Keavney can see it can be somewhere he has support.

Labour and FG are threatened by it, that much is obvious. Crowing about how to restrict our use through the social media Oireachtas committe, ffs...

disability student
18-01-2013, 01:55 PM
+1

Like Lord of the Flies

Isolation is one method by which bullies attain their respective power. If reinforces a belief in the other person that they are somehow powerless and undermines their dignity.

These politicians from the Govt side and the media together are the real bullies and also culprits as well.:mad:

fluffybiscuits
18-01-2013, 03:06 PM
These politicians from the Govt side and the media together are the real bullies and also culprits as well.:mad:

If they bully us in their playground just wait till the class gets together and gives them the hiding of their life (metaphorically of course...)

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 03:23 PM
Anyone condemning the action against Keaveney even remotely bothered by the action against Peadar Toibin? Or is it just the causes we agree with?

Not really comparable situations, I think. This is a power struggle for the future of the Labour Party. Peader Toibin was voting on an issue of conscience as he saw it.
And to be fair, it seems a fairly standard policy to remove people who have lost the whip from positions that are in the gift of the party.

toxic avenger
18-01-2013, 03:39 PM
Not really comparable situations, I think. This is a power struggle for the future of the Labour Party. Peader Toibin was voting on an issue of conscience as he saw it.
And to be fair, it seems a fairly standard policy to remove people who have lost the whip from positions that are in the gift of the party.

I think that they're entirely comparable situations. What I'm particularly interested in is the reaction of others, though - why the outrage over one person who suffers penalties for going against party policy, but not the other person?

There is only one reason - they agree with the one but not with the other.

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 04:07 PM
I think that they're entirely comparable situations. What I'm particularly interested in is the reaction of others, though - why the outrage over one person who suffers penalties for going against party policy, but not the other person?

There is only one reason - they agree with the one but not with the other.

You have a point. Removal of party appointments Is standard operating procedure in these cases and I'm sure Keaveney and the other 'rebels' were expecting to be removed from committee appointments at some stage.
The Peader Tobin case was handled with the minimum of fuss by SF and it's already forgotten about.
The Keaveney situation will have serious repercussions for Labour and potentially for the future of this government.

culmore
18-01-2013, 06:00 PM
Keaveney wants an each way bet, he wants to be a member of a party but not play by the rules. He should be a man and if he cant play by the rules get out.

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 06:06 PM
There is legal advice being given tomorrow about Colm's legal position. I have an idea what he had to listen to in private and public. It would not be not unlike what happened to me. It would seem this may be the default position of political parties . Colm will fight his corner. Seemingly no one has seen,i f not the morality, the consequences, of these actions.

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 06:13 PM
There is legal advice being given tomorrow about Colm's legal position. I have an idea what he had to listen to in private and public. It would not be not unlike what happened to me. It would seem this may be the default position of political parties . Colm will fight his corner. Seemingly no one has seen,i f not the morality, the consequences, of these actions.

From what I've read he can only be removed as Chair of the Party through a vote of the entire membership of the party. Is that unassailable though? Can the party constitution and rules be changed by a vote of the National Executive?

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 06:28 PM
From what I've read he can only be removed as Chair of the Party through a vote of the entire membership of the party. Is that unassailable though? Can the party constitution and rules be changed by a vote of the National Executive?

I don't know. The constitution is quite definite about some things it seems. There is no mechanism, I am told, for removing the Party Leader. One imagines the same for the Chair.

Dr. FIVE
18-01-2013, 06:30 PM
a vote of the entire membership of the party.

and as we're so often informed people often don't vote on the issue presented :)

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 06:35 PM
Wrong about office of leader and removal thereof :

The Party Leader and the Deputy Leader or either of them may be removed from office on a motion of no confidence passed with the support of not less than two thirds of the membership of the Central Council. Any such motion must be notified to the General Secretary not less than 2 weeks before the day on which it is to be debated.

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 06:36 PM
I think that they're entirely comparable situations. What I'm particularly interested in is the reaction of others, though - why the outrage over one person who suffers penalties for going against party policy, but not the other person?

There is only one reason - they agree with the one but not with the other.

To the best of my memory, on this, I said it was entirely understandable that the Parliamentary Labour Party would remove Colm Keaveney from Committee positions.

The Chairmanship of the Party is a different matter altogether and not in the gift of the PP.

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 06:36 PM
I don't know. The constitution is quite definite about some things it seems. There is no mechanism, I am told, for removing the Party Leader. One imagines the same for the Chair.


That makes life a bit awkward for everybody so:)

Digger Out
18-01-2013, 07:57 PM
Keaveney is just a big mouth. He took the soft option and was happy to see his colleagues pass the necessary budget.

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 10:17 PM
Keaveney is just a big mouth. He took the soft option and was happy to see his colleagues pass the necessary budget.

The Labour Party is standing over a fault line. The only way to avoid a certain amount of splitting is for all to jump in the same direction at the same time. Given the seismic stresses, that seems very unlikely.

Greengoddess
19-01-2013, 01:14 AM
Keaveney to chair Labour meeting
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0119/1224329047708.html

PaddyJoe
19-01-2013, 01:46 AM
Keaveney to chair Labour meeting
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0119/1224329047708.html

So it's "let's all shake hands and smile through gritted teeth until the party conference", then.
:)

Dr. FIVE
19-01-2013, 03:14 PM
DDP -

Labour compromise: Colm Keaveney to step out of EC meetings for political report that deals with government business.

PaddyJoe
20-01-2013, 04:57 PM
Keaveney going to have to excuse himself from sensitive high level party meetings says de Mail.
Makes sense, I suppose:)

C. Flower
20-01-2013, 05:04 PM
Keaveney going to have to excuse himself from sensitive high level party meetings says de Mail.
Makes sense, I suppose:)

It looks like a back down by Keaveney.

Greengoddess
20-01-2013, 05:29 PM
It looks like a back down by Keaveney.

Am a bit worried about that. What do they talk about anyway? And who will represent the members?
There is an article in the SBP by back room. Am even more worried about that.

C. Flower
20-01-2013, 05:34 PM
Am a bit worried about that. What do they talk about anyway? And who will represent the members?
There is an article in the SBP by back room. Am even more worried about that.

Quite.

Haven't seen the SBP. Blooming flu.

PaddyJoe
20-01-2013, 05:38 PM
Am a bit worried about that. What do they talk about anyway? And who will represent the members?
There is an article in the SBP by back room. Am even more worried about that.

Sounds like it's time for a nice relaxing cup of tea..:)
Father Ted - A Nice Cup Of Tea - YouTube

Greengoddess
20-01-2013, 05:43 PM
Sounds like it's time for a nice relaxing cup of tea..:)
Father Ted - A Nice Cup Of Tea - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whbc5YJz7OU)

PJ as mrs Doyle? Ha!
Am actually quite a worrier, like most psychoanalysts. Now exponentially worse. One wonders whether this is anyway to live. That will turn in to a real question soon!

Dr. FIVE
20-01-2013, 06:01 PM
What's backroom saying?

I can't buy the post any more because Jim Power has started writing for them

Greengoddess
20-01-2013, 06:09 PM
What's backroom saying?

I can't buy the post any more because Jim Power has started writing for them

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!article/ac9a52fe-d0a2-44f8-b248-e5490397a61e

Dr. FIVE
02-03-2013, 06:53 PM
http://anony.ws/i/2013/03/02/FsZTC.png


Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit

(He who is silent is taken to agree; he ought to have spoken when he was able to)

PaddyJoe
02-03-2013, 07:06 PM
Latin is a good fit for Twitter. No danger of running out of characters.
The @pontifex could have revived it singlehanded if he had his wits about him.
:)

RaggedTrousers
02-03-2013, 07:08 PM
What's that about? Executive and Central Council meetings were held today.

ang
02-03-2013, 07:17 PM
http://anony.ws/i/2013/03/02/FsZTC.png


Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit

(He who is silent is taken to agree; he ought to have spoken when he was able to)

He wasn't happy about people using their voice when they went to meet and greet Joan in an attempt to raise awareness of how they felt.

Dr. FIVE
02-03-2013, 07:25 PM
true enough ang

Greengoddess
02-03-2013, 07:31 PM
Joan? Scratching head here

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 07:32 PM
http://anony.ws/i/2013/03/02/FsZTC.png


Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit

(He who is silent is taken to agree; he ought to have spoken when he was able to)

What's Latin for "I am an attention seeking ****?"

RaggedTrousers
02-03-2013, 07:39 PM
Joan? Scratching head here

I don't think so.

PaddyJoe
02-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Joan? Scratching head here

He had a go at the 'neanderthals' of Dundalk for heckling Joan Burton at a planned event in a shopping centre last week.

PaddyJoe
02-03-2013, 07:41 PM
What's Latin for "I am an attention seeking ****?"

Ego gigantesco sum?
:)

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 07:42 PM
He had a go at the 'neanderthals' of Dundalk for heckling Joan Burton at a planned event in a shopping centre last week.

Of course that shouldn't be interpreted as him ingratiating himself with Gilmore's potential successor.

Baron von Biffo
02-03-2013, 07:45 PM
Ego gigantesco sum?
:)

:D

RaggedTrousers
02-03-2013, 07:47 PM
He may have expected a challenge at the meetings today, even though it is clear neither Council has the authority to do anything about his position.

Shaadi
02-03-2013, 07:48 PM
What's Latin for "I am an attention seeking ****?"Sum Sham Mamma.

DCon
13-06-2013, 07:36 AM
Keaveney could be planning a European bid.


The Galway East TD told his local newspaper, the 'Tuam Herald', that the answers were not in the Dail anymore – they were in Europe.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/labour-rebel-keaveney-plans-euro-election-bid-29341138.html

Richardbouvet
13-06-2013, 10:57 PM
Whatever about the Latin, Keavney's future in Labour now looks very doubtful. Ray Kavanagh is likely to run for party chair this autumn with leadership blessing. Meanwhile, Keavney's views on the x case have probably cost him crucial left wing support.

PaddyJoe
26-06-2013, 12:59 PM
Keaveney to resign from Labour today according to the Irish Times.

C. Flower
26-06-2013, 01:53 PM
Keaveney to leave the Labour Party.

http://news.ie.msn.com/ireland/colm-keaveney-resigning-from-the-labour-party


His political outlook is a mystery to me.

Dr. FIVE
26-06-2013, 02:05 PM
statement




It has become popular in recent times to talk of ‘hard decisions’. In my experience there are few decisions worth taking that are not reached without considerable difficulty. Politics is about decisions and taking them is just doing our job. Politics is equally about trust and convictions. It is the trust people place in us, and the courage of our convictions, that should enable us to make decisions.

I have been honoured to serve as Chair of the Labour Party. It is a role that was entrusted to me by the members who make up the organisation. I have always promised to question and debate decisions and to avoid the groupthink that destroyed our country.

I know in recent weeks many members may have been disappointed with my objections to certain provisions in the Protection of Life during Pregnancy bill. I apologise to anyone that feels that way but I hope that all can understand that my concerns are genuine. Labour is a pro-choice party and I never had a difficulty with that until it came to considering the recent legislation. However, I believe it is right to question all legislation in order to ensure that what we deliver is just and workable. I hope that all can appreciate that my approach is honest and made with the best of intentions even if they disagree.

Economic issues and the creation of a just society were the reasons I joined the Labour Party and entered politics. These go to the core of my beliefs. While we can all agree and disagree on approaches or particular policies this should remain the central theme and aim of any Labour movement worthy of that name.

I have endeavoured at all times to listen to members views and to articulate their beliefs on such issues, sadly this has often meant that I must come into conflict with those who currently lead the party. I have found that the more I articulate the views of members, or try to facilitate a discussion of real Labour policy, I am seen as a problem, a difficulty, an inconvenience to those who believe they know more and understand more than the people they represent.

Unfortunately I can no longer go along with what is increasingly like a political charade. We promise one thing then do another and blame it on someone else. The members must accept what they are given and the leadership will tolerate no dissent.

It is now apparent that cuts to SNAs, resource hours and to the mobility allowance are not decisions taken in isolation to one another. They are a part of a consistent approach that this Government has taken, whereby those groups least able to defend themselves are targeted for decisive action, while powerful vested interests are left untouched.

The partial reverse of some of those cuts is welcome. However, this is no way to run a country – proposing cuts, distressing people and forcing them to engage in protest to secure the reversal of measures that should never have been decided on in the first place. Why not simply engage in consultation first and try to understand the issue rather than acting arrogantly in believing that you know best?

I have tried to seek change. My aim has always been to see the Labour Party hold true to the proud values on which it was established. I find, however, that I can no longer perform this task. The more I wish to represent even the most basic of Labour values the more alienated I become from those at the top. I am in no doubt that my presence is no longer welcome by them. A party cannot function on that basis. It is with a heavy heart that I am forced to reach the only decision I believe is honourable and resign as Chair of the Labour party and from the Labour party itself.

I entered politics to try and make a genuine difference. None of us expects to change the world but we do hope to have a positive impact. The only barometer we can have is if we retain the trust of those who elect us. Honesty is not a cheap commodity to be traded at the steps of government; it is something we should value. If anyone is to have self-respect and dignity then surely it is in being able to say that they stood by their beliefs and did what they thought was right.

I will continue to represent the people of my constituency and people from anywhere in this country on the same basis that they elected me. I will not breach the contract that they made with me just for the sake of staying in a position. Too many at the cabinet table are willing to trade what they held dear for one more hour in the sun.

Politics can change but only if we have the desire to make it happen. Politicians must be brave and must genuinely believe in something more than their own career. The people decide our fate and all we can do is be happy with our actions and be true to our beliefs. I will stand by the people and I will continue to question and lead when necessary until they decide otherwise.

Finally, I would like to thank my wife, Deirdre, my parents, family and friends for all their support throughout the years. No one can sustain themselves in a political career without the support and advice of those closest to them.

I would also like to acknowledge and thank all of those in Labour that I have worked and debated with during my time in the party. It has been rewarding and I have always been touched by the basic decency of the party’s grassroots membership and their commitment to improving our country and society. I wish them ever success and good fortune in their endeavours.

Richardbouvet
26-06-2013, 02:52 PM
Fine words, but is Keavney going to make the effort to put together a new national political force, or is he going to take the easy way out and sit as a populist independent?

Actually at this stage, I would not rule out his joining up with Ganley.

OMF
26-06-2013, 03:19 PM
Fine words, but is Keavney going to make the effort to put together a new national political force, or is he going to take the easy way out and sit as a populist independent?

He was the Labour party chair. I imagine he could take quite a few of the rank and file with him.

On the matter of Ganley: If this really is about abortion, etc, then it will be a supreme irony that abortion ending up splitting the Labour party before it split FG. I must say that abortion, as an issue, is nothing other than a massive political distraction.

Ceannaire
26-06-2013, 03:30 PM
He's just a transparent careerist. He tried to court the left of the party after his election as chairman, before trying to get people behind the budget, then voting against it and going to war with the leadership from a left-wing perspective, then started chasing the right-wing Dana vote. In summary, he's gone from left to right to left to right. He will do nothing that is not in his own interests. That is the only consistent motif in Colm Keaveney's career.

PaddyJoe
26-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Longford Fianna Failer Johnny Fallon is going to be working with Keaveney as a consultant according to his(Fallon's) twitter feed.

RaggedTrousers
26-06-2013, 07:43 PM
The long farewell, this is such a non story now. He did himself no favours by dragging it out.

I have always found him insufferable. I think he isolated any rank and file support he did have with his objections to the abortion bill.

Greengoddess
26-06-2013, 07:58 PM
The long farewell, this is such a non story now. He did himself no favours by dragging it out.

I have always found him insufferable. I think he isolated any rank and file support he did have with his objections to the abortion bill.

As you found Childers.....
Greater love hath no Party!

RaggedTrousers
26-06-2013, 08:25 PM
Childers is doing the same half in/half out dance.

Shaadi
26-06-2013, 10:26 PM
Being thinking about this guys chances of making it back into the Dail next time. It is likely to be an incredibly soft constituency for an Independent to get elected in next time. Lots and lots of very disenchanted and indebted McMansion occupiers looking for a hero to vote for, and with SFs candidate last time out having been basically excluded from the constituency by the boundary changes, the path is clear for a shrewd Independent to take a seat there. A run out in the Euro elections would give him the pro-life vote right through the Galway East constituency if Ganley doesn't run himself, that cross constituency vote would help him break out of his North Galway/Tuam base in the 2016 election. He could sneak in, but he'd need to smarten himself up a bit politically and electorally.

He's playing the caring politician card well at the moment, sort of, but he should have made the break earlier and now with his Latin twitterings and courting of the pro-life vote he's coming across as a self serving pseud. East Galway people don't like lads who can't pull off a man of the people act convincingly. Anyone convinced by Keaveney in any way, anyone?

Dr. FIVE
27-06-2013, 12:51 AM
New Chair is Loraine Mulligan

goatstoe
30-06-2013, 01:46 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/keaveney-eyes-european-bid-and-backs-burton-for-leader-29383448.html

Colm Keaveney in todays Sindo, says he'd still be in the Labour Party fold if Joan Burton was the leader. She could've been the flake on the 99 he says.

So is he leaving just because he couldn't get on with Gilmore and Rabbitte? Strange fella, he wont be keeping his seat anyways.


"I was never her proxy. I am not a battering ram for Joan Burton. Yes people gravitate towards her but that's based on a lot of genuine political attributes she has . . . Unfortunately, what I've learnt is that politics is a hierarchy and it takes a certain type of person to do certain types of things to become the cherry on the icecream, the flake on the 99."

Greengoddess
30-06-2013, 01:57 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/keaveney-eyes-european-bid-and-backs-burton-for-leader-29383448.html

Colm Keaveney in todays Sindo, says he'd still be in the Labour Party fold if Joan Burton was the leader. She could've been the flake on the 99 he says.

So is he leaving just because he couldn't get on with Gilmore and Rabbitte? Strange fella, he wont be keeping his seat anyways.
The SAME Burton who is going to cut 400 million from the social " protection" budget? Surely not.

PaddyJoe
01-07-2013, 12:02 AM
Planning to write a book 'about his fractious relationship with the Labour party Leadership'.
:rolleyes:
We don't need a book. A short story will do fine.

fluffybiscuits
01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
The long farewell, this is such a non story now. He did himself no favours by dragging it out.

I have always found him insufferable. I think he isolated any rank and file support he did have with his objections to the abortion bill.

That position he maintained was completely at odds with the position of a lot of rank and file Labourites. Careerists in Labour are going to be an endangered species when they fail spectacularly at the next election. Keaveney foresees one can imagine the Labour imploding and Keaveney figures save himself and rebuild. He will be no phoenix out of the ashes but he may have jumped ship just in time to save his career. No time for the man personally...

Saoirse go Deo
24-10-2013, 07:34 PM
Interesting snippet in the latest Phoenix. Don't know if it has been talked about on here before but apparently Keaveney received an anonymous message

"shortly after his exit from the Parliamentary Labour Party after the last budget. Then, Keaveney discovered the most macabre missive in his internal Dáil mailbox with a white feather inside it. Attached was a note, transcribed in the most ornate italic script saying, "This traditional white feather is delivered to you for your cowardice and betrayal of the Irish People. May this great shame be inherited by your children's children for all time, may your name become a byword for infamy".

No stamp so it was sent from within the Dáil.

Found something online about it

http://susanlanigan.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/the-past-is-never-dead-its-not-even-past/

Did Childers get a similar message?

Greengoddess
24-10-2013, 09:23 PM
No! Probably not worth the fare to Brussels.

PaddyJoe
03-12-2013, 12:04 PM
January 2013:


http://i39.tinypic.com/33bzgoz.png

Apjp
03-12-2013, 12:16 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/keaveney-joins-fianna-f%C3%A1il-and-will-run-in-galway-east-1.1615482 What a self serving prick. This shows how little Irish politics has changed or looks likely to change. A labour rebel, a person you would expect to have a social conscience because of opposition to dole cuts is really just a fianna failer who didnt get on with the stickies and is not quite as rightwing as the blueshirts. Little wonder SF are the only real alternative in the medium term when we have this carry on. Ex Labour rebels and ULA politicians will not stand outside of urban areas aside from areas where the WP are standing. I'd be inclined to put people like Keaveney bottom of the list anyways even given the awfully cruel govt. we have-FF must be kept down at all costs.

Spectabilis
03-12-2013, 12:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGGtSkyasNA

C. Flower
03-12-2013, 12:48 PM
Ave atque vale

PaddyJoe
03-12-2013, 12:56 PM
Ave atque vale
The ould Latin won't butter any parsnips in Fianna Fail.
:D

Rpurfield
03-12-2013, 01:17 PM
Disgusting move if the people in Galway have any cop theyll turf him out at the next election. It just shows how careerist most politicians are that they can appear to be left of labour and then join a centre right party

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Greengoddess
03-12-2013, 01:27 PM
I think a lot Tds who do this initially don't realize that there is a price to be paid for being an Independent. Financial and otherwise. Then they look for an escape. You have to know before.

Binn Beal
03-12-2013, 01:44 PM
It makes no difference; it's not like there was any policy difference between FF and Lab.
He has a better chance of getting a seat at the trough now.

ang
03-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Colm Keavney comments on joining FF -


Forsitan et nostrum nomen miscebitur istis - Audentis Fortuna iuvat!

C. Flower
03-12-2013, 01:50 PM
All the happy faces :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BakKt0rCQAAXZep.jpg:large

Shaadi
03-12-2013, 02:00 PM
"It is a possibility that we are slowly witnessing the end of the status quo in Ireland in a political sense, although this may take some years and some harsh lessons to be ingrained into the psyche of the Irish voters who really have to start thinking of what type a society they want rather than what type of a Gombeen they admire."

We don't have that kind of time.

Well he's proved where he stands today, a glorified County Councillor who just wants to stay in the game!

Greengoddess
03-12-2013, 02:34 PM
It seems to be difficult and " lonely" to be an Indo? I don't understand this. There is nothing WORSE then having to defend appalling policies of a Party. Or be forced under threats of all kinds.

ang
03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
It seems to be difficult and " lonely" to be an Indo? I don't understand this. There is nothing WORSE then having to defend appalling policies of a Party. Or be forced under threats of all kinds.

I see plenty of Independent TD's coping perfectly well in the Dail and even representing their electorate to the best of their ability.

C. Flower
03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
It seems to be difficult and " lonely" to be an Indo? I don't understand this. There is nothing WORSE then having to defend appalling policies of a Party. Or be forced under threats of all kinds.

Keaveney appears to be a political opportunist, turning like a windmill in the slightest breeze.

C. Flower
03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
I see plenty of Independent TD's coping perfectly well in the Dail and even representing their electorate to the best of their ability.

Nor are they lonely as they have established political bases for themselves, whether locally or in terms of representing a broader constituency, or both.

Greengoddess
03-12-2013, 03:01 PM
Nor are they lonely as they have established political bases for themselves, whether locally or in terms of representing a broader constituency, or both.
Yes. I suppose some like official visibility! I don't think Creighton like being and Indo either.

The Moth
03-12-2013, 03:56 PM
He knows he won't be re elected as an independent and this way there is a chance. Lots of other Labour TD s may consider the same course and there is little between the 'philosophy' of the two parties. You could say that Fianna Fáil voters in the rural areas are in tune with labour voters so Colm has actually made a good strategic move.

Holly
03-12-2013, 04:31 PM
Well he's proved where he stands today, a glorified County Councillor who just wants to stay in the game!
He likes being a professional politician.

goatstoe
03-12-2013, 04:58 PM
Will he be on Vincent Browne tonight, I'd love to see him try to explain himself, he'll probably do a pre-recorded interview. His redrawn constituency is losing a seat is there an FFer that's retiring there?

Shaadi
03-12-2013, 05:41 PM
Will he be on Vincent Browne tonight, I'd love to see him try to explain himself, he'll probably do a pre-recorded interview. His redrawn constituency is losing a seat is there an FFer that's retiring there?614 The new constituency and a good summation of the constituency are on the link below. I'd think Cannon FG, either Keaveney or Dolan/Kitt for FF and Canney IND will take the 3 seats. Colm may well be hindered by geography if he doesn't take the first FF seat, because there'll be a lot of North Galway FG votes heading Canney's way because FG don't look strong enough in the new constituency to take a seat in the northern half of it.



http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/58636/galway-east-just-who-will-survive

riposte
03-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Killian Forde leaves Sinn Fein to join Labour........ Colm Keaveney leaves Labour to join Fianna Fail.. and Chris Andrews leaves Fianna Fail to join Sinn Fein.
"Man's character is his fate" .... Heraclitus

C. Flower
03-12-2013, 07:20 PM
Killian Forde leaves Sinn Fein to join Labour........ Colm Keaveney leaves Labour to join Fianna Fail.. and Chris Andrews leaves Fianna Fail to join Sinn Fein.
"Man's character is his fate" .... Heraclitus

And it don't amount to a hill of beans.

goatstoe
03-12-2013, 08:27 PM
614 The new constituency and a good summation of the constituency are on the link below. I'd think Cannon FG, either Keaveney or Dolan/Kitt for FF and Canney IND will take the 3 seats. Colm may well be hindered by geography if he doesn't take the first FF seat, because there'll be a lot of North Galway FG votes heading Canney's way because FG don't look strong enough in the new constituency to take a seat in the northern half of it.



http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/58636/galway-east-just-who-will-survive

Why would FF voters vote for him ahead of the incumbent FFers that are there? He'll surely lose his seat anyways. He should have joined SF if it was a case that he was just trying to keep his seat, the SF candidate wasn't that far behind him on first preferences last time. Maybe SF wouldn't take him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway_East_%28D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency %29

Binn Beal
03-12-2013, 09:30 PM
And it don't amount to a hill of beans.
At least a hill of beans is useful. These boys pushing and shoving to get to the gravy bowl are disgusting but at least they are showing the public what 'politics' is all about.

TotalMayhem
03-12-2013, 09:39 PM
All the happy faces :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BakKt0rCQAAXZep.jpg:large

The "radically reformed" party! :D

Shaadi
03-12-2013, 10:52 PM
Why would FF voters vote for him ahead of the incumbent FFers that are there? He'll surely lose his seat anyways. He should have joined SF if it was a case that he was just trying to keep his seat, the SF candidate wasn't that far behind him on first preferences last time. Maybe SF wouldn't take him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway_East_%28D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency %29Location, location, location!

It's a very very messed up constituency. SF could have done with Keaveney to replace their 2011 candidate who would have had a shout next time if the constituency hadn't changed, but now they've no obvious candidate and it's a question of rebuilding for them there. Keaveney has property concerns I think and the average Industrial wage wouldn't be his idea of living, so SF probably wouldn't float his boat at all. He has a history with FF, I saw it mentioned elsewhere that he wanted to run them for them in 1997 but got blocked.

There were only two FF candidates last time, Kitt doing best with his base being mostly in the area that has just been taken out of the constituency for the next election, while another one of them Dolan a relative nobody and newbie still took a respectable 4,109 6.9% from a standing start as it were in the south of the constituency.

Effectively the new boundary changes have almost taken out the 2011 high flyers Kitt FF 11.1%, Paul Connaughton Jnr FG 12.2% and taken out Timmy Broderick IND 8.7% and Dermot Connolly SF 6.1% who are just too embedded in the excluded area to probably even bother running again.

Kitt has no base at all in the south of the constituency and neither does Keaveney, in a constituency where geography matters as much as politics, so there will be another south Galway candidate for FF and he/she will have an unassailable advantage if FF run two candidates in north of the constituency as well splitting that northern FF vote. Which makes Kitt running again look unlikely, unless Keaveney is being set up as his sweeper and if the two of them put in enough effort then a second FF seat is a possibility.

Dr. FIVE
04-12-2013, 01:39 AM
https://twitter.com/patrabbittetd/status/407816971011751936

disability student
04-12-2013, 01:35 PM
It only confirms that Labour party is a right wing party not a 'left' as he (Keaveney) joined Zanu FF party. That's because FF and Lab have so much similarities.

In a mathematical equation, FF= Lab= FG are officially establishment political parties.

Voters out there beware as to whom you would vote for in coming elections!!!!!!

Public/electorate are hungry for new parties right now before it's too late.

Ceannaire
04-12-2013, 02:01 PM
It only confirms that Labour party is a right wing party not a 'left' as he (Keaveney) joined Zanu FF party. That's because FF and Lab have so much similarities.

It proves no such thing, because that would assume that his ideology was such that there was no difference in his being a member of FF or Labour. That argument is unsound because he has no ideology.


Public/electorate are hungry for new parties right now before it's too late.

Be careful what you wish for. The only likely new party is one on the Right.

Binn Beal
04-12-2013, 02:32 PM
Sic finis pompus dickus as Caesar said on the death of Brutus.

He'll definitely get the East Galway FF vote - the Latin speakers anyway.

disability student
04-12-2013, 02:55 PM
=Ceannaire;363281]
It proves no such thing, because that would assume that his ideology was such that there was no difference in his being a member of FF or Labour. That argument is unsound because he has no ideology.


Agree. One of other reason fro his move is the organisation skills of FF, which would enable him to tap it for his re-election and also financial funds as well.

It's difficult for any independents to raise funds and have organisations skills except for some IND's like Donnelly
& others.



Be careful what you wish for. The only likely new party is one on the Right.

Reckon there is two likely new parties ..Donnelly & co and RA.

Other new parties can be sprung up from nowhere as anything is possible.

Shaadi
04-12-2013, 03:02 PM
It proves no such thing, because that would assume that his ideology was such that there was no difference in his being a member of FF or Labour. That argument is unsound because he has no ideology.



Be careful what you wish for. The only likely new party is one on the Right.Agree 100% about Keaveney, he seems to be in politics for the sake of it. A career, and maybe he likes being of service to the local community.

I'm a little puzzled as to what exactly a Labour ideology would be. Having never, despite my nearly 50 years in this country seen any particular ideology attached to them. Bar a decent socially Liberal streak in them, they appear to desire nothing more than a kind of seat on the committee and a few clip boards to walk around with to feel important to justify a nice salary kind of mentality.

They appear to be no more than a Social Democrat wing of FG. What am I missing?

Holly
04-12-2013, 05:23 PM
...They appear to be no more than a Social Democrat wing of FG. What am I missing?

What Labour is, is a dead loss.

disability student
04-12-2013, 05:37 PM
What Labour is, is a dead loss.

Dead weight loss :D

C. Flower
04-12-2013, 08:47 PM
Agree 100% about Keaveney, he seems to be in politics for the sake of it. A career, and maybe he likes being of service to the local community.

I'm a little puzzled as to what exactly a Labour ideology would be. Having never, despite my nearly 50 years in this country seen any particular ideology attached to them. Bar a decent socially Liberal streak in them, they appear to desire nothing more than a kind of seat on the committee and a few clip boards to walk around with to feel important to justify a nice salary kind of mentality.

They appear to be no more than a Social Democrat wing of FG. What am I missing?

The Trade Union funding and the expectation that there would be some kind of representation of that interest ?

Greengoddess
04-12-2013, 09:13 PM
The Trade Union funding and the expectation that there would be some kind of representation of that interest ?

Good point? SIPTU might not be too averse to this on the quiet. After all he goes back to them if he loses the seat.

Shaadi
04-12-2013, 09:32 PM
The Trade Union funding and the expectation that there would be some kind of representation of that interest ?

Yes, but bourgeois PS/Semi State trade unionism at the expense of the masses isn't exactly very Connollyesque and I thought it rude to bring it up. We all know that Labour represent bourgeois values, but it would be nice to be somehow wrong..

C. Flower
04-12-2013, 09:41 PM
Yes, but bourgeois PS/Semi State trade unionism at the expense of the masses isn't exactly very Connollyesque and I thought it rude to bring it up. We all know that Labour represent bourgeois values, but it would be nice to be somehow wrong..

That really does need analysis - it is an interesting term. The ESB workers may be labour aristocracy, but they are still, fundamentally, labour, in spite of owning some shares.

The peculiar character of the Irish Labour Party maybe some way mirrors these trade unions, that in the past have been able to expect special treatment if they represented a big enough bloc of voters.

Shaadi
05-12-2013, 12:02 AM
That really does need analysis - it is an interesting term. The ESB workers may be labour aristocracy, but they are still, fundamentally, labour, in spite of owning some shares.

The peculiar character of the Irish Labour Party maybe some way mirrors these trade unions, that in the past have been able to expect special treatment if they represented a big enough bloc of voters.Aside from the ESB where there may be a range of differing pay standards from silly money to barely getting by money. Labour aristocracy covers a multitude including an awful lot of not very Working Class people who are "entitled" to maintain a very high wage regardless of whether they are needed or whether the Job pays silly money because them's the rules.

Their salaries don't come from thin air, they come from the public purse or from the consumer and if there are a particular cohort of PS/Semi State-Quango employees doing very well for themselves while money is being withdrawn from people who can barely stay afloat, then the Socialist thing to do would be to rationalise the incomes and employment of those who can afford it subject to a common sense approach to that rationalisation.

The PS-Semi State trade unions are no different to IBEC or other special interest representative bodies. They're there to pull up the ladder and hog as much for the powerful interests that they represent. It's as simple as that...

They're not socialists despite their endless bullsh1tting about Connolly and Larkin et al. And our friends in Labour fall into the same category, watching public services be decimated and charges inflate while hiding behind a veneer of no cuts to the basic welfare rate while what lies behind that basic rate is hollowed out to such an extent that the welfare state is in danger. Basic Labour values.. I don't think so...... baby boomers who don't care whether others can eat non existent cake or not.

Dr. FIVE
06-12-2013, 06:02 PM
Tuam Herald says Martin has told Keaveney that he will be sole FF candidate in next election

Shaadi
06-12-2013, 08:19 PM
That would seem to show a stunning lack of ambition from FF. Very interesting tactics if true, the voter feedback locally must be reflecting the low poll ratings nationally, but giving a 2nd seat gimmie to FG may indicate a very prudent targeted approach to the next GE from FF. They certainly will have given up all hope of a return to the big time if one candidate in East Galway is all they can muster.

No FF candidate south of the Railway line is highly unlikely and would be stupid because it would open up all of South Galway to a new player. Whatever Martin may have said, it can't be believed.

Dr. FIVE
06-12-2013, 08:27 PM
They were reportedly courting Lab senator Lorraine Higgins earlier in the year, perhaps kit was already on the way out though East Galway is one of most civil war wedded constituencies in the country, either party could run anyone. Will be interesting to what happens on the bit gone to Roscommon etc The far side is well covered

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/BSBYE-eCcAAbYMs.jpg

Shaadi
07-12-2013, 12:06 AM
They were reportedly courting Lab senator Lorraine Higgins earlier in the year, perhaps kit was already on the way out though East Galway is one of most civil war wedded constituencies in the country, either party could run anyone. Will be interesting to what happens on the bit gone to Roscommon etc The far side is well covered

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/BSBYE-eCcAAbYMs.jpgHiggins would of had a good chance if she had defected to FF, but she's hardly going to make it on a Labour platform. It's a really hard constituency to get a read on. Just over a fifth of the constituencies population is going to Roscommon, leaving a valid vote of about 48,000 and a quota of about 9,500. The South Galway practically unaffected candidates Cannon, 6,927 Mc Clearn 5,395, Higgins 3,577, Dolan 4,109, roughly 20,000 vs the largely unaffected North Galway Tuam based candidates Keaveney 4,254, Canney 5,567, McHugh 5.832 roughly 15,600 with another 13,000 up for grabs that will split roughly 2:1 in favour of the northern candidates. Making the South vs North figures roughly 24,000 vs 24,000 with FG having a full quota in South Galway and FF having a full quota in the whole constituency. McHugh FG or Canney IND will get the last seat by default, unless a new contender emerges so that all those surplus anti-Govt votes in South Galway can find a home.


There's a big Ballinasloe urban and rural vote heading Roscommon's way and I wouldn't put it past that vote to elect a TD in the New Roscommon-Galway constituency. Wonder what SF are going to do with Connolly, he'd a fair vote last time in Galway East and SF got a respectable vote in Roscommon-South Leitrim last time. He'd bring a respectable total in from his Ballinasloe base and there would be a fair few SF votes there for him in Roscommon itself. It'd be worth a run out for him anyway. Ming should be okay, there'll be plenty of turf cutters heading his way from the Galway side, Naughten should be solid and FF probably Connaughton will take a seat. No FG seat!

DCon
08-12-2013, 04:50 PM
Pat not holding back. Pat who would sell his soul for a bigger pension



Colm Keaveney ‘would join Hezbollah if he thought it would advance his career’, Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Pat Rabbitte said of his former party colleague today.




http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/rabbitte-colm-keaveney-would-join-hezbollah-to-advance-his-career-29820033.html

Holly
08-12-2013, 04:55 PM
Pat Rabbitte is so funny.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/clown_zpsdaf55ac9.jpg

riposte
08-12-2013, 06:35 PM
Aside from the ESB where there may be a range of differing pay standards from silly money to barely getting by money. Labour aristocracy covers a multitude including an awful lot of not very Working Class people who are "entitled" to maintain a very high wage regardless of whether they are needed or whether the Job pays silly money because them's the rules.

Their salaries don't come from thin air, they come from the public purse or from the consumer and if there are a particular cohort of PS/Semi State-Quango employees doing very well for themselves while money is being withdrawn from people who can barely stay afloat, then the Socialist thing to do would be to rationalise the incomes and employment of those who can afford it subject to a common sense approach to that rationalisation.

The PS-Semi State trade unions are no different to IBEC or other special interest representative bodies. They're there to pull up the ladder and hog as much for the powerful interests that they represent. It's as simple as that...



Jaysus Shaadi.... when I joined this forum I said something like that ....... and I was nearly lynched by most of the members on here.

fluffybiscuits
10-12-2013, 03:18 PM
From Krank.ie

http://www.krank.ie/category/opinions/emperors-new-clothes/



The vox-pops from around Tuam yesterday seemed to indicate that Deputy Keaveney was a man of principle who stood up for what he believed in. This shows a complete disconnect from the reality of the situation by his constituents. And lucky for him.

FF supporters have the memory of a goldfish...

Dr. FIVE
16-01-2014, 07:12 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeH4CaDCIAANCu4.png

PaddyJoe
16-11-2014, 11:16 PM
Sounds more like a practical joke than a credible threat. Or has Colm really annoyed somebody?


Detectives have been told how the threat unfolded on the night of October 7, when a Northern Ireland car sped up the local man's laneway. According to one account given to detectives, two men got out of the car and approached the man. Speaking with Northern Irish accents, they allegedly told him that they needed his house for a "job" in the area and offered him €40,000 for his cooperation. They claimed that the IRA was planning a Tiger kidnapping of Colm Keaveney and they needed the man's house to carry out surveillance on the TD's home.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gardai-probe-ira-kidnap-threat-to-td-30748147.html

C. Flower
16-11-2014, 11:23 PM
Sounds more like a practical joke than a credible threat. Or has Colm really annoyed somebody?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gardai-probe-ira-kidnap-threat-to-td-30748147.html

Sounds like the Irish version of the Strategy of Tension.

PaddyJoe
17-11-2014, 12:17 AM
Sounds like the Irish version of the Strategy of Tension.

Had to read it a second time to figure out how ludicrous the whole story is.

Shaadi
17-11-2014, 12:46 AM
Sounds more like a practical joke than a credible threat. Or has Colm really annoyed somebody?



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gardai-probe-ira-kidnap-threat-to-td-30748147.htmlThe €400,000 figure sounds like a property debt rather than a kidnap ransom. The IRA Tiger Kidnap stuff is nonsense, but there may be something to the story.