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C. Flower
05-12-2012, 10:08 PM
Just came across this short article on German resistance, mainly by communist industrial workers during WW2. Hundreds of thousands were arrested, tens of thousands sent to concentration camps, and executed, throughout the war.

Extraordinarily, some were able to organise sabotage in munitions factories in Berlin, in 1941, to produce a regular news sheet and to fly post leaflets calling for sabotage and for support for the Soviet Union.

http://assets.cambridge.org/97805210/03582/sample/9780521003582ws.pdf

C. Flower
05-12-2012, 10:19 PM
Also, "Eidelweiss Pirates" - ordinary non-political youth who hated the Nazi Youth and some of whom moved into resistance / opposition activity.

Many of them arrested and hung in mass hangings.

http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/1eef39023a4f947409025c70e5d0b26c_1M.png

Holly
05-12-2012, 11:48 PM
It is particularly challenging to resist a government in a police state such as Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Red China, Pinochet's Chile, and so on.

Sam Lord
06-12-2012, 01:36 AM
Not only the sacrifices but the sheer tenacity and bravery of the German communists should be more greatly acknowledged in my opinion. The Party was dealt very heavy blows in 1933 but did not collapse under them. Between a quarter and a third of its 360,000 membership was rallied to continue the anti-fascist struggle, The heroism displayed has been claimed by some with good reason to be unequaled by the workers movement in any capitalist country.



For three years the Party threw its cadres into an unequal battle of a scope and intensity to which few Western writers have done justice. By 1935 a large part of the original mass membership were either dead, imprisoned or in exile, and it was no longer possible to fill the widening gaps in the ranks. A new perspective and a new strategy had to be adopted. Nevertheless the struggle was never abandoned, but was continued on a reduced scale, and to some extent in new forms, until 1945.


Communist Resistance in Nazi Germany - Allan Merson

It has been fashionable in bourgeois historical circles to ignore the losses of the German communists throught the 1930's, criticise the KPD and claim that in the period of the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union (August 1939-June 1941)they reduced their level of activity. This criticisms are however


inconsistent both with the Party"s published policy documents and with police and trial records.

ibid.

A special recognition should be given to the many activists who when having served their sentences and were released from prison or concentration camp immediately resumed their anti-fascist activity.

And in acknowledging the contribution of German communists to the struggle against fascism one should not forget the civil war in Spain.



In the years 1936-38 almost 5,000 German anti-fascists served in the Brigades and of these more than 3,000 gave their lives. Among the 5,000 - the biggest national contingent in the Brigades - the majority were communists.


ibid.

Sam Lord
06-12-2012, 04:29 AM
Interesting article on where the Nazis got their electoral support from in the early 1930s. The industrial working class in big cities was the most anti-Nazi section of the society.

And I was surprised to see, btw, that support amongst protestants for the Nazis was much greater than amongst catholics.



There can be no doubt that the NSDAP recruited across a broad social spectrum. However, its support was not random. We have already noted the over-representation of Protestants, rural areas and small provincial towns, as well as of the Mittelstand, in Nazi support and there was a similar structure to the movement's working-class constituency. The working class, however, was under-represented in the Nazi ranks when compared to the German population as a whole.

The working-class presence among those who voted for Hitler can be made to correlate positively with the proportion of working classes in the electorate as a whole only when foremen, daily helps, workers in domestic industry and, significantly, agricultural labourers are included in the definition of working class. When rural labourers (who inhabited a world quite different to that of the city dweller and factory employee, often paid in kind or subject to landlord pressure) are removed from the equation, a slight negative correlation arises between Nazi support and working-class presence. And if workers in craft (as distinct from factory) sectors are also removed from the equation, the correlation becomes even more negative. It is negative, too, in the large cities where, the closer we look at the factory working class, the lower the percentage support for the NSDAP becomes.

Furthermore, only 13 per cent of the unemployed -- who comprised some 30 per cent of the manual working class in the middle of 1932 and who were over whelmingly concentrated in the big cities and in large-scale manufacture -- supported the National Socialists. It therefore is clear that, although large numbers of workers did vote Nazi, these were not in the main from the classic socialist or communist milieux, rooted as these were in the large cities and in employees in the secondary sector of the economy. If the number of workers in this sector plus the unemployed is correlated with electoral support for the NSDAP, the result is clearly even more negative.



http://www.johndclare.net/Weimar6_Geary.htm

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 08:35 AM
[QUOTE=Sam Lord;297849]Interesting article on where the Nazis got their electoral support from in the early 1930s. The industrial working class in big cities was the most anti-Nazi section of the society

It was overwhelmingly factory workers who actively resisted the Nazis, both communist and non-communist, going by the article I linked in the OP.


And I was surprised to see, btw, that support amongst protestants for the Nazis was much greater than amongst catholics.

Not sure that this is of very much significance. Most of the communist workers, as Marxists, would have been atheist/agnostic.

Hitler in general had pally enough relations with the Catholic Church and @pontifex of course was a member of the Hitler Youth.

This thread rather gives the lie to the line that "membership was more or less compulsory" spun by the Church in relation to the Pope's war history.

Sam Lord
06-12-2012, 02:44 PM
Not sure that this is of very much significance. Most of the communist workers, as Marxists, would have been atheist/agnostic.


I didn't suggest that it was significant nor did I relate it to the workers struggle. I just said that it surprised me as it was counter-intuitive (for me anyway)




Hitler in general had pally enough relations with the Catholic Church and @pontifex of course was a member of the Hitler Youth.

This thread rather gives the lie to the line that "membership was more or less compulsory" spun by the Church in relation to the Pope's war history.

The Catholics had their own political party - the Centre Party - it received nearly 12% of the vote in the March 1933 Federal election and won 70 seats. It voted for the Enabling Act that gave Hitler unlimited powers and was then dissolved in line with the Concordat agreed between the Nazis and the Vatican in July 1933.

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 02:47 PM
These guys get very little attention compared with the French resistance, and the French resistance is usually portrayed as being up against the Germans not the French government of the day.

There is a great film in it. I think someone is trying to make one on the Eidelweiss youths, but better to show the whole story I think.

Sam Lord
06-12-2012, 02:55 PM
There is a great film in it. I think someone is trying to make one on the Eidelweiss youths, but better to show the whole story I think.


I would highly recommend this novel, "Every Man Dies Alone" It is based on a true story - written from a Gestapo file I believe - of a couple who undertake individual acts of resistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Man_Dies_Alone

Baron von Biffo
06-12-2012, 03:06 PM
I would highly recommend this novel, "Every Man Dies Alone" It is based on a true story - written from a Gestapo file I believe - of a couple who undertake individual acts of resistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Man_Dies_Alone

On this side of the water that book is sold as Alone in Berlin (http://www.bookshop.kennys.ie/book/UK/9780141189383/Alone_in_Berlin) and I second your recommendation.

Baron von Biffo
06-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Another German act of resistance to the Nazis.

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/book/excerpts/denmark.php

Holly
06-12-2012, 03:35 PM
...
This thread rather gives the lie to the line that "membership was more or less compulsory" spun by the Church in relation to the Pope's war history.
"In 1936 membership of the HJ was made compulsory for all boys aged 15 and 18."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERyouth.htm
"Until December 1936 the Hitler Youth paraded the fiction of a voluntary organization; after that date it called itself State Youth and membership became obligatory" Grunberger, R. (1995). The 12-year Reich. Da Capo Press. New York:NY
"By December 1936, HJ membership stood at just over five million. That same month, HJ membership became mandatory for Aryans, under the Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/th_Ratzinger.jpg

toxic avenger
06-12-2012, 05:05 PM
Everyone, of course, knows of the White Rose group, but apart from communists and trade unionists, there were also, believe it or not, extremely brave Catholic critics of the Nazis. Some bishops and many laity either supported the Nazis or shared anti-Semitic views. Others, however, actively opposed the Nazis and went to jail for printing and distributing Pius XII's encyclical against the abuses, anti-Semitism, and racial myths of Nazism, On the part of the laity we all know of von Stauffenberg, and there were many more. In terms of clergy the most prominent was the Archbishop of Munster, Claus von Galen, long quite a hero of mine..


http://www.churchinhistory.org/images/vongalen/vongalenpic.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemens_August_Graf_von_Galen

Then on the part of the Protestant churches we have people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who took part in the 1944 plot, being executed for it, and Pastor Niehmoller.

There was a Social Democrat paramilitary organisation called the Riechsbanner, who engaged in guerilla attacks and sabotage, with many hanged in reprisal for shooting a Gestapo chief.

Finally, one group that really strikes me, mentioned above... the Edelweiss Pirates. They weren't political or pro-Allies, they were generally just teenagers who rebelled, refused to stop listening to Jazz and Swing, wouldn't join the Hitlerjugend, and basically rebelled against the Nazis by just doing what they liked. Kind of like rebeliious teenagers today, but braver by a thousand times...

toxic avenger
06-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Hitler in general had pally enough relations with the Catholic Church and @pontifex of course was a member of the Hitler Youth.



Pally enough relations meaning he fully intended to crush them, but knew if he tried he'd face a full-scale rebellion within Austria and Germany. And also that Pius XII issued an Encyclical which was banned in Germany attacking Nazism and Hitler for their racial cult, the abuses, the anti-Semitism, and so on - which many priests and lay Catholics ended up in prison for secretly printing and distributing. Meanwhile we had Claus von Galen virtually single-handedly stopping the T4 program with his fierce and unrelenting condemnation from the pulpit.

The Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, and ran away as soon as he could. He was also 14 years old. Plus, his parents were both anti-Nazis. You can safely assume that he was indeed pretty much forced to do it, and that he did not want to. It's easy to criticize a 14 year old boy scared of a Satanically evil regime from the safe vantage point of today.

Fraxinus
06-12-2012, 05:48 PM
Not a fan of the Pope by any means but it is very unfair to judge (I think I've made that judgement before as well) the choice, if even it was a choice, of a teenager.

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 05:49 PM
Another German act of resistance to the Nazis.

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/book/excerpts/denmark.php


What gave further resonance to the wives' protest was that it was happening in the heart of Berlin, a city that had never been enthusiastic about Nazism. Cosmopolitan Berliners always saw it as a crude Bavarian aberration. Moreover, Berlin was the German base for foreign news organizations that still operated during the war. If political malcontents or the wire services were to get wind of the protest, the myth of the omnipotent Nazi state could be exposed. In fact, London radio did report on the demonstrations.
By the third day SS troops were given orders to train their guns on the crowd but to fire only warning shots. They did so numerous times, scattering the women to nearby alleyways. But the wives always returned and held their ground. They knew the soldiers would never fire directly at them because they were of German blood. Also, arresting or jailing any of the women would have been the rankest hypocrisy: According to Nazi theories, women were intellectually incapable of political action. So women dissenters were the last thing the Nazis wanted to have Germans hear about, and turning them into martyrs would have ruined the Nazis' self-considered image as the protector of motherhood.
The campaign soon expanded to include women and men who were not in mixed marriages. The ranks of protestors bulged to a thousand, with people chanting to let the prisoners go and taunting the SS soldiers. Joseph Goebbels, seeking to stop more from arriving, closed down the nearest streetcar station, but women walked the extra mile from another station to reach Rosenstrasse 2-4. By the end of the week Goebbels saw no alternative but to let the prisoners go. Some thirty-five Jewish male prisoners, who had already been sent to Auschwitz, were ordered to gather their belongings and board a passenger train back to Berlin.
:)

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 05:57 PM
Pally enough relations meaning he fully intended to crush them, but knew if he tried he'd face a full-scale rebellion within Austria and Germany. And also that Pius XII issued an Encyclical which was banned in Germany attacking Nazism and Hitler for their racial cult, the abuses, the anti-Semitism, and so on - which many priests and lay Catholics ended up in prison for secretly printing and distributing. Meanwhile we had Claus von Galen virtually single-handedly stopping the T4 program with his fierce and unrelenting condemnation from the pulpit.

The Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, and ran away as soon as he could. He was also 14 years old. Plus, his parents were both anti-Nazis. You can safely assume that he was indeed pretty much forced to do it, and that he did not want to. It's easy to criticize a 14 year old boy scared of a Satanically evil regime from the safe vantage point of today.

I suspect he was more interested in personal style than in politics. But this doesn't sound as though he was 14 -


In the 1996 book “Salt of the Earth”, the Pope told Peter Seewald, a German journalist: “At first we weren’t, but when the compulsory Hitler Youth was introduced in 1941, my brother was obliged to join. I was still too young, but later, as a seminarian, I was registered in the HY. As soon as I was out of the seminary I never went back.”
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6545/bnxvi29061951.jpg


Elizabeth Lohner, a Traunstein resident whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, has been quoted as saying, “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others. The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.” A few hundred yards away from the Ratzingers' house, a family hid Hans Braxenthaler, a local resistance fighter who shot himself rather than be captured again. The SS regularly searched local homes for resistance members, so the Ratzingers couldn’t have not known about resistance efforts.

toxic avenger
06-12-2012, 06:18 PM
I suspect he was more interested in personal style than in politics. But this doesn't sound as though he was 14 -

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6545/bnxvi29061951.jpg

You left out the next paragraph..


Neither Ratzinger nor any member of his immediate family joined the NSDAP (Nazi Party). The pope's father was critical of the Nazi government, and as a result the family had to move four times before he was ten years old.

He was 14. He was conscripted in to the Hitlerjugend in 1941. In 1945 he went home. In between, he was trained in infantry tactics and assigned to an anti-aircraft post (as many Hitlerjugend were, given the shortage of men).

If the criticism is that there were some who didn't join and resisted, that's an extremely easy judgment to make from the vantage point of a social democratic country in 2012. I, however, would not condemn any youth who didn't feel so brave, particularly given the shower of murdering thugs in charge.

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 06:29 PM
You left out the next paragraph..



He was 14. He was conscripted in to the Hitlerjugend in 1941. In 1945 he went home. In between, he was trained in infantry tactics and assigned to an anti-aircraft post (as many Hitlerjugend were, given the shortage of men).

If the criticism is that there were some who didn't join and resisted, that's an extremely easy judgment to make from the vantage point of a social democratic country in 2012. I, however, would not condemn any youth who didn't feel so brave, particularly given the shower of murdering thugs in charge.

It was very brave, and the chances of any of them making it through to be Pope clearly very slim.

He was in the HJ from 14-16. That is shockingly young to be in a seminary, btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

Baron von Biffo
06-12-2012, 07:39 PM
Berlin, a city that had never been enthusiastic about Nazism.:)

In The Etymologicon (http://www.bookshop.kennys.ie/book/UK/9781848313071/The_Etymologicon), Mark Forsyth argues that the name 'Nazi' was not, as is commonly believed, a shorthand for "Nationalsozialistische" but was in fact a derogatory name for Bavarians that pre-dated Hitler's party.

He says that 'Nazi' as short for Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria and was used as an insulting name for unsophisticated provincials - The German equivalent of 'culchie' if you like.

Perhaps Berliners found it opportune to join the party but without any particular enthusiasm for the leadership. A bit like Dubs sucking up to Cowen or Gump.

C. Flower
06-12-2012, 08:06 PM
In The Etymologicon (http://www.bookshop.kennys.ie/book/UK/9781848313071/The_Etymologicon), Mark Forsyth argues that the name 'Nazi' was not, as is commonly believed, a shorthand for "Nationalsozialistische" but was in fact a derogatory name for Bavarians that pre-dated Hitler's party.

He says that 'Nazi' as short for Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria and was used as an insulting name for unsophisticated provincials - The German equivalent of 'culchie' if you like.

Perhaps Berliners found it opportune to join the party but without any particular enthusiasm for the leadership. A bit like Dubs sucking up to Cowen or Gump.

Berlin was a big industrial city and cosmopolitan, too.
It was full of communists :D and Jews.

:)

Sam Lord
06-12-2012, 10:30 PM
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n611/boavista1/image-430974-galleryV9-jxoy.jpg

C. Flower
07-12-2012, 11:48 AM
As "All of Germany" included Berlin, that is quite a gap.

The Nazi party lost 2 million votes in 1932 before coming to power, so I am surprised by that graph -


This story of electoral success certainly forms the background to Hitler's appointment as Chancellor in 1933. However, even at the peak of the NSDAP's popularity before this moment, almost 63 per cent of the German electorate did not vote for the Nazis. What is more, in November 1932, the Nazi Party actually lost 2 million votes. This means that Hitler was not directly voted in to power; for in the Weimar system of absolute proportional representation, 37 per cent of the vote in July 1932 gave the Nazis nothing like a majority in the Reichstag.

http://www.johndclare.net/Weimar6_Geary.htm