PDA

View Full Version : Time for a bit of sabre rattling over Gibralter



PaddyJoe
15-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Nothing would suit the Tories and the PP better than a distraction from the muck storms that they are embroiled in domestically..

The Spanish ambassador to London has been summoned to the UK Foreign Office after Britain lodged a protest about recent Spanish incursions into territorial waters off Gibraltar.

Britain's Europe minister said there were two "serious" incidents on Monday.

David Lidington said a Spanish naval vessel had patrolled Gibraltarian waters and Spanish customs had also attempted to seize a civilian boat.

He warned Spain to halt "provocative incursions" into Gibraltarian waters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20341739

Holly
16-11-2012, 12:06 AM
The neo-Franco Popular Party will not be pushed around by the English.

PaddyJoe
16-11-2012, 12:07 AM
The neo-Franco Popular Party will not be pushed around by the English.

The neo-Thatcher Tory Party will not be pushed around by the Spanish:)

PaddyJoe
16-11-2012, 12:16 AM
Spanish dailies have it on front page although not the lead story.
El Mundo here:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/11/15/espana/1352992312.html
El Pais:
http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2012/11/15/actualidad/1352989200_588751.html

El Pais near the end of the report mentions the 1719 Treaty of Utrecht and in particular the fact that it refers to the City and Castle of Gibralter, as well as its port, defences and fort; but not to the isthmus and surrounding waters;)

PaddyJoe
16-11-2012, 12:28 AM
The diplomatic note as published by El Pais:

Lee la nota en inglés del Foreign Office

Permanent Under Secretary summons Spanish Ambassador in relation to incursions in Gibraltar
Today Simon Fraser, Permanent Under Secretary at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), summoned the Spanish Ambassador to the UK, H.E. Federico Trillo, in order to underline the British Government’s concerns regarding recent incursions in to British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.
The Minister for Europe, David Lidington, said:
“The UK has repeatedly made diplomatic protests to Spain over attempts by Spanish state authorities to exercise jurisdiction in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters. Yet on 13 November there were two further serious incursions. A large Spanish naval ship conducted a prominent patrol through British Gibraltar Territorial Waters lasting several hours. Later on the same day a Spanish customs vessel sought to apprehend a Gibraltarian civilian boat in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters, forcing the Royal Gibraltar Police to intervene in order to safeguard the welfare of the four occupants.
“I condemn these provocative incursions and urge the Spanish government to ensure that they are not repeated. We believe that it is in the interests of Spain, as well as Gibraltar and Britain, to avoid any incident that may damage the prospects of developing a harmonious and collaborative relationship between Gibraltar and Spain. It is also in all parties’ interests to avoid incidents which could put at risk the safety of those operating in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters. We remain confident of UK sovereignty over British Gibraltar Territorial Waters and fully committed to protecting the interests of the people of Gibraltar and their wish to remain under British sovereignty.”
http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2012/11/15/actualidad/1352989200_588751.html
Ain't really that diplomatic, is it?

Holly
16-11-2012, 07:45 AM
Unfortunately, Spain's moral argument is compromised by their occupation of Ceuta and Melilla in North Africa.

PaddyJoe
06-08-2013, 11:29 PM
And we're off again. This time it probably has to do with the Spanish government wanting to distract from the PP slush fund scandal.

Spanish checks at the border with Gibraltar must "fully respect EU law and remain proportionate", the European Commission has said.Tensions have escalated after increased vehicle searches caused major delays for tourists and locals.
Spain has also said it is considering a new 50 euro (£43) fee to cross the border with the British territory.
The foreign secretary says he has told Gibraltar the UK stands "shoulder to shoulder" with it amid the tensions.

In an interview with the Spanish ABC newspaper (http://www.abc.es/espana/20130804/abci-garcia-margallo-entrevista-201308032026.html), published on Sunday, Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said Spain was considering charging people to enter and exit Gibraltar through its border post.Mr Garcia-Margallo also hinted at the introduction of other measures, including tax investigations into property owned by Gibraltarians in neighbouring parts of Spain, and the closing of Spanish airspace to flights heading to Gibraltar.
Mr Cameron said none of the measures had been raised with the UK government, while Mr Picardo has accused Spain of "sabre-rattling".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23578559

morticia
07-08-2013, 07:03 AM
Oh, yay, spot of jingoism. Now, what major scandal is about to engulf the Tories? The PP are already submerged in brown stuff.

fluffybiscuits
07-08-2013, 01:52 PM
Talks between William Hague and his Spanish counterpart has resulted in an easing of the tensions. Gibraltarians wont like someone poking around their tax affairs though in Spain will they?

toxic avenger
07-08-2013, 05:19 PM
Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that it's the Spanish who are in the wrong here, and it's the Spanish who are desperately trying to distract from their internal economic ****-storm. EU law is quite clear about free movement across EU borders - what the Spanish are proposing will never happen (and they know it). It's an artificial controversy stoked by a populist foreign minister.

PaddyJoe
07-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that it's the Spanish who are in the wrong here, and it's the Spanish who are desperately trying to distract from their internal economic ****-storm. EU law is quite clear about free movement across EU borders - what the Spanish are proposing will never happen (and they know it). It's an artificial controversy stoked by a populist foreign minister.
Is is certainly true that the Spanish are using the situation to distract from the corruptions scandals. However, this particular bout of handbags seems to have been started by the Gibraltar authorities when they built a an artificial concrete reef which has disrupted fishing activity in the area.
Gibralter is not part of the Schengen area so border checks are permitted under EU law.

toxic avenger
07-08-2013, 06:05 PM
Is is certainly true that the Spanish are using the situation to distract from the corruptions scandals. However, this particular bout of handbags seems to have been started by the Gibraltar authorities when they built a an artificial concrete reef which has disrupted fishing activity in the area.
Gibralter is not part of the Schengen area so border checks are permitted under EU law.

I thought it started with Spanish incursions into Gibraltarian waters, including a shooting incident? Maybe my chronology is wrong.

Border checks are allowed, yes - I have driven across that border and been checked myself - but any measures which impede the free movement of goods, services, workers, or establishment have to be non-discriminatory (i.e. to apply to Spanish nationals and all others as much as to residents of Gibraltar), and that includes indirect discrimination (measures which appear to apply across the board but which have an unequal burden in fact), plus have to be necessary and proportionate. I doubt that what the Spanish foreign minister proposed would get past those criteria (and indeed the EU has told the Spanish to pipe down).

Ogiol
07-08-2013, 06:55 PM
Just a crapstorm kicked up to distract both local populations from the all 2 obvious pathethic state of each country's economy and the more than obvious corruption scandals. Bla bla here vs. bla bla there... it'll pass over cause spain will not invade gibraltar.... not unless the EU collapses or something.

PaddyJoe
08-08-2013, 01:06 AM
I thought it started with Spanish incursions into Gibraltarian waters, including a shooting incident? Maybe my chronology is wrong.

Border checks are allowed, yes - I have driven across that border and been checked myself - but any measures which impede the free movement of goods, services, workers, or establishment have to be non-discriminatory (i.e. to apply to Spanish nationals and all others as much as to residents of Gibraltar), and that includes indirect discrimination (measures which appear to apply across the board but which have an unequal burden in fact), plus have to be necessary and proportionate. I doubt that what the Spanish foreign minister proposed would get past those criteria (and indeed the EU has told the Spanish to pipe down).
Not going to dispute your chronology...maybe it all kicked off in 1713;)
Anyway, the Spanish press says that the Moncloa is stating that the government is 'reserving the right to carry out control checks to prevent illegal trafficking' and will continue the measure to 'uphold the national interest'
However, unofficially, the Spanish government is prepared to 'modulate' these measures if a dialog involving Spain, London, Gibralter and the Andalucian government can be reopened, according to El Pais.

PaddyJoe
12-08-2013, 12:29 PM
Good man Boris. Nice bit of conciliatory rhetoric there.

Perhaps it really is a coincidence - as the Foreign Office claims - that we have just sent a fleet of warships to Gibraltar.
Maybe it's just a fluke that HMS Illustrious is about to bristle into view on the southern coast of Spain, complete with thousands of Royal Marines and other elite commando units.
But I hope not. I hope that one way or another we will shortly prise Spanish hands off the throat of our colony, because what is now taking place is infamous.
– BORIS JOHNSON, WRITING IN THE DAILY TELEGRAPH

PaddyJoe
12-08-2013, 10:12 PM
I didn't know that Jeremy Paxman's brother is Ambassador to Spain.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10229084/Giles-Paxman-keeps-his-brother-Jeremy-Paxman-at-a-distance.html

rebellin
13-08-2013, 01:17 AM
Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel
Garcia-Margallo will visit Argentina next month and will raise
the possibility of a diplomatic alliance with that country
against the British on Gibraltar and the Malvinas, the Spanish
daily {El Pais} reports. Britain has announced that it is sending
naval warships to the Gibraltar area as “part of a routine
deployment,” which has caused a huge ruckus in the Spanish
media. Spain is also considering taking the Gibraltar case to the
International Court of Justice in the Hague, for Britain’s
“illegal occupation” of the isthmus.
That’s all fine and good, but what Argentina and Spain
(along with the rest of Europe) really need to ally on is pulling
the plug on the IMF and the rest of the Troika,

See also Spanish-British Gibraltar dispute question and answer http://laroucheirishbrigade.com/2013/08/11/spanish-british-dispute-over-gibraltar-question-and-answer/