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View Full Version : Hillsborough Disaster - Cameron Apologises, Fans Vindicated, Police Misconduct Exposed



C. Flower
12-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Over a quarter of a century after 96 people died in the Hillsborough stadium, Sheffield, the truth has been acknowledged by the establishment.

The fans always knew.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/12/article-2202032-0605722B0000044D-810_634x324.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2202032/Hillsborough-papers-revealed-Police-attempted-blame-Liverpool-fans-disaster.html

C. Flower
12-09-2012, 02:29 PM
From Cameron's Statement -


FINDINGS: FAILURE OF THE AUTHORITIES
First, there is new evidence about how the authorities failed.
There is a trail of new documents which show the extent to which the safety of the crowd at Hillsborough was 'compromised at every level'.
The ground failed to meet minimum standards and the "deficiencies were well known".
The turnstiles were inadequate.
The ground capacity had been significantly over-calculated.
The crush barriers failed to meet safety standards.
There had been a crush at exactly the same match the year before.
And today's report shows clearly that lessons had not been learnt.
The report backs up again the key finding of the Taylor Report on police failure.
But it goes further by revealing for the first time the shortcomings of the ambulance and emergency services response.
The major incident plan was not fully implemented.
Rescue attempts were held back by failures of leadership and co-ordination.
And, significantly, new documents today show there was a delay from the emergency services when people were being crushed and killed.
FINDINGS: ATTEMPT TO BLAME THE FANS
Second, the families have long believed that some of the authorities attempted to create a completely unjust account of events that sought to blame the fans for what happened.
Mr Speaker, the families were right.
The evidence in today's report includes briefings to the media, and attempts by the Police to change the record of events.
On the media. Several newspapers reported false allegations that fans were drunk and violent and stole from the dead.
The Sun's report sensationalised these allegations under a banner headline 'The Truth.'
This was clearly wrong and caused huge offence, distress and hurt.
News International has co-operated with the Panel and, for the first time, today's report reveals that the source for these despicable untruths was a Sheffield news agency reporting conversations with South Yorkshire Police and Irvine Patnick, the then MP for Sheffield Hallam.
The Report finds that this was part of police efforts - and I quote - 'to develop and publicise a version of events that focused on - allegations of drunkenness, ticketlessness and violence.'
In terms of changing the record of events, we already know that police reports were significantly altered but the full extent was not drawn to Lord Justice Taylor's attention.
Today's Report finds that 164 statements were significantly amended - and 116 explicitly removed negative comments about the policing operation - including its lack of leadership.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2202032/Hillsborough-papers-revealed-Police-attempted-blame-Liverpool-fans-disaster.html#ixzz26GXkwFRt

fluffybiscuits
12-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Just been reading a few of the fans forums. A lot of the anger is still residual and just to give an example...

http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,43680.180.html


A lot of people there are highly critical of the police and emergency services.

Andrew49
12-09-2012, 03:33 PM
The Hillsborough Football Disaster

The history of Hillsborough begins with the deaths of 96 people and the physical and mental injury of countless others. However it does not end there. The enormity of the Disaster goes beyond even this. Hillsborough becomes a metaphor for British society today. It is a microcosm of how society operates. Viewed in this way the history of Hillsborough becomes the history of injustice, of cover-up, and collusion. History will record 'Hillsborough' firmly within the bounds of civil rights, and the bereaved and survivors of the Disaster will long be remembered for the heroic stances they took against the might of bureaucratic forces in the name of justice.

The Immediate Aftermath - Media Reaction (http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/media.shtm)

Griska
12-09-2012, 05:18 PM
Cactus, you've made me feel quite old, when you mention that it was a quarter of a century ago.
I wasn't there, nor do I know anybody who was, but I get quite emotional about the whole thing.
The reason for this is, I know football fans. I am a football fan.
We are a motley crew and some you wouldn't want to live beside.
But I have been in crushes, not on such a scale, but my experience has been that we all helped each other.
I loved the families press conference today, the speaker wanted any reporters from The Sun in the room.
Proper order.

C. Flower
12-09-2012, 08:21 PM
From my reading of fans accounts from the time, the police caused this, and the state of the ground and overcrowding made it possible for them to cause it.

Ambulancemen were refused entry by the police, while people were dying of crush injuries and asphyxiation stretched out on the pitch.

The Press lapped up the blatant lies of the police and regurgitated them.

Fans did everything they could to save lives.

RTE Drivetime - after Cameron spent the day apologising to the fans - managed to say it happened "when fans flooded into the stands."

Not mentioning that the fans were misdirected, and the stands grossly overcrowded.

C. Flower
12-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Cactus, you've made me feel quite old, when you mention that it was a quarter of a century ago.
I wasn't there, nor do I know anybody who was, but I get quite emotional about the whole thing.
The reason for this is, I know football fans. I am a football fan.
We are a motley crew and some you wouldn't want to live beside.
But I have been in crushes, not on such a scale, but my experience has been that we all helped each other.
I loved the families press conference today, the speaker wanted any reporters from The Sun in the room.
Proper order.

A lot of people don't understand crushes. They can happen just with a natural movement or surge of a large crowd, which amplifies in force in restricted areas if there are insufficient ways to get out. They can happen without any panic or misbehaviour of any description to cause them.

Andrew49
12-09-2012, 10:17 PM
Cactus, you've made me feel quite old, when you mention that it was a quarter of a century ago.
I wasn't there, nor do I know anybody who was, but I get quite emotional about the whole thing.
The reason for this is, I know football fans. I am a football fan.
We are a motley crew and some you wouldn't want to live beside.
But I have been in crushes, not on such a scale, but my experience has been that we all helped each other.
I loved the families press conference today, the speaker wanted any reporters from The Sun in the room.
Proper order.

Football fans ... indeed any sport that attracted working class people ... were demonised up to and after Hillsborough. Football fans attending matches were caged-in like wild animals. Political reaction (Tory Government) at the time was to defend the police and deflect the blame. Thatcher even used weaselly words of in the wake of of Lord Taylor's report - which heavily criticised the actions of the police on the day. Her instinct was to shield the police and never mind the dead.

fluffybiscuits
12-09-2012, 10:59 PM
A lot of people don't understand crushes. They can happen just with a natural movement or surge of a large crowd, which amplifies in force in restricted areas if there are insufficient ways to get out. They can happen without any panic or misbehaviour of any description to cause them.

Happened a few years ago at a match I was at and can happen easily with a win or a foreign object being thrown into a crowd. This has happened all over the world,has been an issue in South America for a few years but standards are being tightened.

DCon
12-09-2012, 11:06 PM
tomorrow's English papers

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2n8AZQCAAAU8DW.jpg

DCon
12-09-2012, 11:11 PM
the full report is here: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc05/0581/0581.pdf

Captain Con O'Sullivan
13-09-2012, 08:03 AM
Over 160 evidential statements tampered with deliberately. This is an issue with many witnesses, television cameras, reporters present and it just shows you how the authorities can even blatantly falsify the truth to their own end.

Extraordinary stuff. This wasn't a 'failure' by authorities. It was a deliberate cover up, managed and arranged.

This was not a 'mistake' or a 'failure' in communications.

C. Flower
13-09-2012, 08:19 AM
Over 160 evidential statements tampered with deliberately. This is an issue with many witnesses, television cameras, reporters present and it just shows you how the authorities can even blatantly falsify the truth to their own end.

Extraordinary stuff. This wasn't a 'failure' by authorities. It was a deliberate cover up, managed and arranged.

This was not a 'mistake' or a 'failure' in communications.

All credit to the families and fans who never gave up in their efforts to get the truth proven and accepted.

Griska
13-09-2012, 09:16 AM
Jack Straw reckons there was an element of impunity by South Yorkshire Police as they were invaluable to Thatcher during the miners strike.


But Straw blamed Margaret Thatcher and her Government for setting the police culture that contributed to the scandal. "The Thatcher Government, because they needed the police to be a partisan force, particularly for the miners' strike and other industrial troubles, created a culture of impunity in the police service.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/hillsborough/48991/jack-straw-blames-thatcher-hillsborough-police-cover#ixzz26L6zLyjz

C. Flower
13-09-2012, 09:37 AM
Jack Straw reckons there was an element of impunity by South Yorkshire Police as they were invaluable to Thatcher during the miners strike.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/hillsborough/48991/jack-straw-blames-thatcher-hillsborough-police-cover#ixzz26L6zLyjz

The role of the Press is also worth looking at, as the facts were easily available from interviewing people who had been there, but they chose to splash the patent lies of the police over their front pages.

Was this pre Murdoch ?

Thatcher would not have said a word against the police or armed forces, come what may.

Richardbouvet
13-09-2012, 10:18 AM
I understand Jack Straw had an opportunity to re-open the whole matter while he was Home Secretary, but declined to do so.

There is also some evidence that the Hillsborough cover-up came from the top:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/thatcher-worried-over-police-blame-3228067.html

C. Flower
13-09-2012, 10:28 AM
I understand Jack Straw had an opportunity to re-open the whole matter while he was Home Secretary, but declined to do so.

There is also some evidence that the Hillsborough cover-up came from the top:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/thatcher-worried-over-police-blame-3228067.html


The report would "sap confidence in the police force" and could encourage aggressive behaviour by fans towards officers, said the memo, adding that: "Liverpool fans -- who have caused trouble in the past -- will feel vindicated."Don't we have a thread here on how the Thatcher Government considered leaving Liverpool to "controlled decay" ?

Yes, we do - http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=10684&highlight=Liverpool+Thatcher

Griska
13-09-2012, 11:03 AM
The role of the Press is also worth looking at, as the facts were easily available from interviewing people who had been there, but they chose to splash the patent lies of the police over their front pages.

Was this pre Murdoch ?

Thatcher would not have said a word against the police or armed forces, come what may.

Nope, this was definitely not pre Murdoch.

Griska
13-09-2012, 11:06 AM
I understand Jack Straw had an opportunity to re-open the whole matter while he was Home Secretary, but declined to do so.

There is also some evidence that the Hillsborough cover-up came from the top:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/thatcher-worried-over-police-blame-3228067.html

Straw ordered a "scrutiny of evidence", whatever the hell that is.


In the wake of renewed public and media interest in the disaster, which followed the broadcast of Jimmy McGovern's documentary-drama Hillsborough in 1996, Home Secretary Jack Straw ordered a "scrutiny of evidence...Jack Straw accepted the findings and ruled out a new inquiry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19545126

Griska
13-09-2012, 11:11 AM
I understand Jack Straw had an opportunity to re-open the whole matter while he was Home Secretary, but declined to do so.

There is also some evidence that the Hillsborough cover-up came from the top:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/thatcher-worried-over-police-blame-3228067.html


Wow. That's pretty damning.
The former British prime minister, now Baroness Thatcher, had been warned that the interim report was "very damning" of police but attached "little or no blame" to Liverpool fans.
The report would "sap confidence in the police force" and could encourage aggressive behaviour by fans towards officers, said the memo, adding that: "Liverpool fans -- who have caused trouble in the past -- will feel vindicated."
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/thatcher-worried-over-police-blame-3228067.html

C. Flower
13-09-2012, 11:46 AM
Don't we have a thread here on how the Thatcher Government considered leaving Liverpool to "controlled decay" ?

Yes, we do - http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=10684&highlight=Liverpool+Thatcher

Looked at that again. Post Toxteth riots, in the early 80s, the Thatcher's cabinet discussed the possiblity of raising parts of Liverpool to the ground and abandoning the city. They decided instead on "controlled decline."

The attitude to the Liverpool fans presumably relates to this.

The working class was seen by Thatcher as a problem to be contained while mines and manufacturing were wound down, and skilled workers transformed into "chavs" and hooligans. The conduct of the police on the day at Hillsborough, that led to the deaths, was fed by that policy and attitude.

fluffybiscuits
13-09-2012, 02:48 PM
Looked at that again. Post Toxteth riots, in the early 80s, the Thatcher's cabinet discussed the possiblity of raising parts of Liverpool to the ground and abandoning the city. They decided instead on "controlled decline."

The attitude to the Liverpool fans presumably relates to this.

The working class was seen by Thatcher as a problem to be contained while mines and manufacturing were wound down, and skilled workers transformed into "chavs" and hooligans. The conduct of the police on the day at Hillsborough, that led to the deaths, was fed by that policy and attitude.

Tatcher was anti working class from the moment she brough out the riot cops to batter the protestors in the 80's protesting as the closure of mines and even before that. Hooliganism has its roots in a working class district being alienated and the fans forming groups as they see hooliganism as an outlet for disenfranchisement and frustration at being denied opportunties. Where as a man may be a breadwinner and provide for a family a decline in masculinity coincides I believe with a rise in hooliganism with a man being able to prove his "laddish" side through fights and pitch battles.

Dr. FIVE
14-09-2012, 02:05 PM
off one of the football forums (http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/709769-hillsborough-verdict?limit=20&start=60#710044)



Cameron said what had to be said, as would anyone else in his position. The fact that there no punches pulled was down to the damning evidence, to which there was no room for manoeuvre.

What I find alarming is that it was generally accepted that the UK was free and democratic back in ‘89, yet the overwhelming level of conspiracy and censorship would not have looked out of place in any police state. Without wishing to sound all Trotskyite but the Establishment ensured that this manipulation of events was allowed to happen without challenge and without question. I can accept that the government of the day were not complicit in this, but they certainly did not give mind to the possibility that officially things went horribly, horribly wrong.

In this or any other case of injustice, that selfsame Establishment exists. There could be all the enquiries under the Sun (a poor analogy, I suppose) but this will not lead to a culture change. The willingness of the police to close ranks still goes on today (Rawlinson and De Menezes) as it did back in ’89 and long before that.

As it was Hillsborough was christened tragedy before there was even a chance to look at whether there was a legal case to answer. The Taylor report was thus thrust into the forefront whilst the powers that be in South Yorkshire Police were allowed to dodge a bullet. The crazy thing was that had it not been for McKenzie the SYP might have avoided a scandal that has plagued its existence ever since.

This is a momentous day, no doubt, but whether this will achieve some form of closure is debatable. The tampering of evidence must surely bring certain key players back to the courtroom, retired or not, to face up to not only what they did but what they should not have done.This. Excellent comment and got me thinking.

I did say I had nothing more to add earlier but I have simply not been able to get Hillsborough out of my head. I’ve had the legacy of Hillsborough, Thatcher and the 80’s swimming around my head so I’m just throwing some thoughts down. If it comes across as a cod sociology essay then apologies in advance.

When the time comes for the comprehensive retelling of the 1980’s in the same manner that the 1970’s is being treated at the moment (hopefully not by Dominic Sandbrook), it would be apposite to analyse Britain’s social history through the prism of Thatcher and the Police’s war on the working class throughout the decade.

All of Thatcher’s three administrations were predicated upon ‘the enemy’- as she would famously ask at cabinet meetings, ‘is he one of us?’ This was the entire philosophy of Thatcherism- the working classes of Toxteth, Brixton and elsewhere in 1981 were ‘the enemy within’, the Trade Unions were ‘the enemy within’, the miners were ‘the enemy within’, Militant in Liverpool were ‘the enemy within’, Galtieri was the ‘the enemy outside’ and of course football fans were very much ‘the enemy within’. The unacceptable face of a working class about to be dealt with.

Thatcherism’s attack on the working class and the post war settlement was two pronged- the ‘velvet glove and the gauntlet’ approach. The subtle velvet glove- the ‘property owning democracy’ that led millions to ‘invest’ in their own house. Of course, if you are now shackled by a mortgage, class solidarity dissipates as you worry more about losing the house you have bought than fighting for better working conditions in a job which can be easily transferred overseas or to one of the latent millions unemployed.

In conjunction with draconian Trade Union laws and the long planned hammering of the miners, the victory was complete- a cowed/self satisfied I’m alright Jack working class, having class solidarity either beaten or seduced out of them.

Hillsborough was the ultimate manifestation of this decade long culture of the ‘enemy within’ instilled in Government and Police. Although by 1989 the working class had been defeated (the miners strike saw to that), football fans as overwhelmingly working class were still evidence of the enemy and therefore everything should be done to ensure that they were the perpetrators for this horrific event.

Not only were they football fans, they were Liverpool fans- the city of Toxteth, Heysel, Hatton’s Militant and the 1980’s most celebrated attack on Thatcherism, Bleasdale’s Boys from the Blackstuff. They had it coming; they ******* well had it coming and no mistake.

The brutal way that SYP responded in the aftermath- blood tests for alcohol on the dead, grilling the grieving families as to the victim’s social and drinking habits followed by the unspeakable cover up was continuation of the same Machiavellian and brutal pattern of behavior that the Thatcher Govt had utilized against the miners. The brazenness indicative of ‘made men’ within Thatcher’s Police establishment and veterans of the Battle of Orgreave four years earlier were plain to see.

Let us never forget the sheer depths of depravity the political and policing pillars of Thatcher’s establishment stooped to- “Sir” Irvine Patnik’s lies about the fans and “Sir” amending PC’s reports and pushing the ‘drunken yob’ angle before the bodies had even been buried. These amongst many similar disgusting acts in the name of the Establishment.

If Hillsborough is symbolic of anything other than the appalling deaths of 96 innocent people at the hands of official negligence and subsequent cover up, it is this- it was the culmination of a decade long political mantra of ‘the enemy within’ and assault on the working classes. SYP acted as if it still had carte blanche to make sure that the enemy was defeated. The cover up testifies to the fact that the Establishment was still looking out for each other.

Hillsborough was the most despicable end to a decade fostered and won by class hatred, hatred as evidenced by the Establishment’s actions in causing, and reaction to the Hillsborough disaster.

C. Flower
02-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Police kept money taken from the dead and dying at Hillsborough.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hillsborough-police-paid-money-found-among-the-dead-into-forces-coffers-8793702.html

eamo
02-09-2013, 07:57 PM
The Sun is still not bought in Liverpool by red or blue.
From the lamp post thread.
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/eamo1960/photo-193.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/eamo1960/media/photo-193.jpg.html)

Frankie Lee
03-02-2014, 07:11 PM
Might be a decent program tonight on BBC 2 at 10:30 which exposes the intimidation of survivors by the police.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25947994

One of the examples.

Nick Braley went to the semi-final as a neutral, excited to have been given a ticket by a friend.

He says the officer taking his statement was not impressed.

"I'd been wearing a Free Mandela T-shirt," he says.

This prompted aggressive questions. "Was I a student agitator? Was I a member of the Socialist Workers Party? I'm just a fan at a game of football. He then turned on me and said I was a criminal with a grudge against the police."

At one point, he says, the police suggested he had not even been at the game. When he produced his ticket, he was told he could have found it.

fluffybiscuits
05-02-2014, 09:22 PM
Steven Gerrard donated a couple of thousand the other night. Fair play to him. His cousin died I think in Hillsborough...

Rafa did the same when he was manager of Liverpool

Saoirse go Deo
05-02-2014, 09:25 PM
Steven Gerrard donated a couple of thousand the other night. Fair play to him. His cousin died I think in Hillsborough...

Rafa did the same when he was manager of Liverpool

96k. (He gets over 140k a week.)

fluffybiscuits
05-02-2014, 10:23 PM
96k. (He gets over 140k a week.)

:)

C. Flower
06-02-2014, 12:01 AM
off one of the football forums (http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/709769-hillsborough-verdict?limit=20&start=60#710044)

That was a good post but left out "irish hooligans and murderers" as part of Thatcher's "enemy within"

Trow
06-02-2014, 11:46 PM
Has anyone ever seen the episodes of ''Cracker'' with Robert Carlise?
Titled, to be a somebody....

Quote...To Be a Somebody is the first episode of the second season of Cracker, divided into three parts. It served as the breakthrough role of actor Robert Carlyle. Unlike other episodes, it is connected with a real life event, the Hillsborough disaster, and other events connected to it.unquote.

You can read the story plot in 3 parts here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Be_a_Somebody

C. Flower
01-04-2014, 10:03 PM
The new inquest, which will have a jury, is starting.

It was said today that there was a similar crush on the same event the previous year, but it had been considered an organisational success and the same plan was put in place.

C. Flower
12-04-2014, 10:30 PM
Neoliberals. They kill your children and then tell you they were **** anyway.

455050231281762304

C. Flower
13-04-2014, 07:40 AM
http://f3.thejournal.ie/media/2014/04/phoenix-park-lfc.jpg


Thousands at the Phoenix Park to remember Hillsborough, after 25 years.

C. Flower
15-04-2014, 10:31 PM
At last Saturday's Liverpool match, 96 seats left empty.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlDIserIcAArUgx.jpg:large

DCon
16-04-2014, 05:17 AM
At last Saturday's Liverpool match, 96 seats left empty.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlDIserIcAArUgx.jpg:large

As a Liverpool fan I would like to see 96 seats left empty at every home game

C. Flower
26-04-2016, 10:35 AM
After 27 years a verdict of Unlawful Killing has been delivered in the British Courts today.

C. Flower
07-05-2016, 08:02 PM
This article by a journalist who was in Pen 3, aged 19, and who has campaigned for justice, is worth reading as it conveys a lot about Britain from the Thatcher period, and now.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/01/hillsborough-inquest-survivor-adrian-tempany?CMP=share_btn_tw

C. Flower
28-06-2017, 12:04 PM
Announced today that charges will be brought against 6 people, for 95 deaths at Hillsborough. Mainly former police officers, but also a public servant and a lawyer. Would this have happened without Grenfell ? We will probably never know.

C. Flower
04-07-2017, 11:42 AM
Looked at that again. Post Toxteth riots, in the early 80s, the Thatcher's cabinet discussed the possiblity of raising parts of Liverpool to the ground and abandoning the city. They decided instead on "controlled decline."

The attitude to the Liverpool fans presumably relates to this.

The working class was seen by Thatcher as a problem to be contained while mines and manufacturing were wound down, and skilled workers transformed into "chavs" and hooligans. The conduct of the police on the day at Hillsborough, that led to the deaths, was fed by that policy and attitude.


This post on 'controlled decline' gives a hint of how the Tories view the working class, and its neighbourhoods, perhaps relevant when considering what happened at Grenfell Tower.

I am not subscribing to any theory that the fire was deliberate - but the trashy work to the Tower was a conscious decision.