Luke Ming Flanagan and Fine Gael: the plot thickens

[PaddyJoe]

It seems that Ming had quite a spat with Laois-Offaly TD Marcella Corcoran-Kennedy a few weeks before the run in with Sean Barrett, according to Harry McGee in the IT today:

Mr Flanagan and Ms Corcoran Kennedy had attended a meeting of the Oireachtas environment committee in late June, which had discussed the problem caused to local farmers by excessive flooding in the river Shannon area.

At the end of the meeting, Ms Corcoran-Kennedy approached Mr Flanagan and challenged him over references he had made to her on his Twitter social media account.

Later that evening, Mr Flanagan tweeted: “I am reporting Deputy Corcoran Kennedy to the Oireachtas usher staff for physically denying me from leaving the meeting on Shannon floods.”

When another account user asked did she really block his way, he replied: “Meeting was over. She refused on three occasions to let me pass unless I listened to her rant. Not acceptable.
Sounds like there's a few decent personality clashes going on around Lenister House these days:)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

[DCon]

Did Ming not get the memo that it is FG's turn to run the country now, and he should not interfere?

[MPB]

Thanks be to God for Luke Flanagan.

About time some of these parasites had their worthiness questioned and their soft little protected ar ses kicked.

We need somebody to go through the Civil service like a dose of salts.

I have said before and will say again, the type of change Ireland needs does,nt come with democratic elections, it comes with revolution.

Revolution can come in many forms, but swapping one type of parasite for another is pointless.

The beauty of the current crisis is that the parasites have not realised, the seriousness of the situation and the futility of their attempts to maintain their position.

[Baron von Biffo]

It seems that Ming had quite a spat with Laois-Offaly TD Marcella Corcoran-Kennedy a few weeks before the run in with Sean Barrett, according to Harry McGee in the IT today:

Sounds like there's a few decent personality clashes going on around Lenister House these days:)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

All that energy wasted in foolish little spats. The pressure seems to be getting to him.

[Baron von Biffo]

"Flanagan referred to it several times on Twitter. “She applauds law-breaking when it gets her votes and denies it then when her bosses are around,” one tweet said."

That from the man who supports those who break the law by cutting turf on protected bogs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

[PaddyJoe]

All that energy wasted in foolish little spats. The pressure seems to be getting to him.

Ming, like plenty of other backbench and opposition TDs, has discovered that he doesn't have any influence on what goes on in the Dail and is only there to make up the numbers.

[MPB]

"Flanagan referred to it several times on Twitter. “She applauds law-breaking when it gets her votes and denies it then when her bosses are around,” one tweet said."

That from the man who supports those who break the law by cutting turf on protected bogs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

A law akin to making it illegal to make a cup of tea in your own kitchen.

[Baron von Biffo]

A law akin to making it illegal to make a cup of tea in your own kitchen.

Did you never hear of a hoover? Remind me never to accept an invitation to tea in your house.

[MPB]

Did you never hear of a hoover? Remind me never to accept an invitation to tea in your house.

You won,t ever need a reminder.

[Baron von Biffo]

You won,t ever need a reminder.

:p

[Dr. FIVE]

Harry McGee reduced to trawling twitter accounts? Silly season cant end soon enough

[Dr. FIVE]

Little time for people who get on a high horse over TD wearing jeans while making excuses for low standards and behaviour of their own party.
The men in suits have little respect for 'the office' in Dáil Eireann. Only a sense of self importance.

With eyes on the next election. I would assume Ming might be safe having topped the poll last time and being on the right side of the hospital dispute since. Fine Gael however will have Naughton without the whip, Feighan, and Connaughton Jnr all battling it out for the two remaining seats. One of which they are sure to lose

[Baron von Biffo]

Little time for people who get on a high horse over TD wearing jeans while making excuses for low standards and behaviour of their own party.
The men in suits have little respect for 'the office' in Dáil Eireann. Only a sense of self importance.

With eyes on the next election. I would assume Ming might be safe having topped the poll last time and being on the right side of the hospital dispute since. Fine Gael however will have Naughton without the whip, Feighan, and Connaughton Jnr all battling it out for the two remaining seats. One of which they are sure to lose

It's Ming, Boyd-Barrett, Wallace et al who are making a big issue about dress in the Dail. Funnily enough all 3 have issues with obeying the law.

[Dr. FIVE]

Twas Kehoe and FG who intended to bring in a dress code during last years silly season.

Quietly dropped

[Baron von Biffo]

Twas Kehoe and FG who intended to bring in a dress code during last years silly season.

Quietly dropped

It wouldn't be an issue at all if the other empty vessels didn't choose to make some sort of vacuous point by dressing scruffily.

[MPB]

Of course a suit makes people bright, intelligent, honest and most importantly above reproach.

Seanie always wore a nice suit, as did Brian Goggins, Patrick Neary and John Hurley.

On the night of 29th Sept 2008 the room was full of nice suits and hey presto 70 billion of Irish citizens money disappeared in a puff of John Players.

All the Quinns wore lovely suits. Michael Fingleton always wore a nice suit underneath the Fedora.

[Baron von Biffo]

Of course a suit makes people bright, intelligent, honest and most importantly above reproach.

Seanie always wore a nice suit, as did Brian Goggins, Patrick Neary and John Hurley.

On the night of 29th Sept 2008 the room was full of nice suits and hey presto 70 billion of Irish citizens money disappeared in a puff of John Players.

All the Quinns wore lovely suits. Michael Fingleton always wore a nice suit underneath the Fedora.

That may be the sort of silly reasoning used by those who make an issue of what they wear in the Dail chamber.

[MPB]

That may be the sort of silly reasoning used by those who make an issue of what they wear in the Dail chamber.

No, the silly reasoning comes from those that think what you wear matters.

You seem to think that the new dail members are trying to make a statement by dressing as they do, but you ignore the fact that they are dressed as they always dress. Luke Flanagan was Chairman of Roscommon Co Council and dressed then as he does now.

You would have a point if they were purposely dressing down as some sort of protest, but as usual, you don,t.

[Baron von Biffo]

No, the silly reasoning comes from those that think what you wear matters.

You seem to think that the new dail members are trying to make a statement by dressing as they do, but you ignore the fact that they are dressed as they always dress. Luke Flanagan was Chairman of Roscommon Co Council and dressed then as he does now.

You would have a point if they were purposely dressing down as some sort of protest, but as usual, you don,t.

They are the ones breaking the convention so they must be doing it for a reason.

[MPB]

They are the ones breaking the convention so they must be doing it for a reason.

Of course they are. Its called being true to yourself and your supporters.

Something sheep like yourself would never understand.

[PaddyJoe]

I'm presuming that somebody on the committee on procedures and privileges is going for a silly season wind up by leaking this to The Examiner

A new dress code being finalised by the committee on procedures and privileges hopes to do away with deputies parading around the chamber in jeans and T-shirts.

New rules would see speaking rights withheld from TDs who do not abide by the stricter dress code, which will demand that male deputies wear formal trousers, a collared shirt, and a jacket while in the chamber or at committee meetings, while women members will be barred from wearing jeans.
The rules would be enforced via the Ceann Comhairle, who has the power to call, or not to call, members to speak.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mingin-jeans-banned-in-dail-dress-code-203390.html

[Baron von Biffo]

Of course they are. Its called being true to yourself and your supporters.

Something sheep like yourself would never understand.

So they're making a statement by what they wear.

[DCon]

I'm presuming that somebody on the committee on procedures and privileges is going for a silly season wind up by leaking this to The Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mingin-jeans-banned-in-dail-dress-code-203390.html

can de wimmin wear whatever they want?

[Dr. FIVE]

I'm presuming that somebody on the committee on procedures and privileges is going for a silly season wind up by leaking this to The Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mingin-jeans-banned-in-dail-dress-code-203390.html

same crap, same time last year.


Paul Kehoe didn't hire an adviser for nuttin

[PaddyJoe]

can de wimmin wear whatever they want?

No jeans, girls, says Mr Barrett;)

[Baron von Biffo]

I'm presuming that somebody on the committee on procedures and privileges is going for a silly season wind up by leaking this to The Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mingin-jeans-banned-in-dail-dress-code-203390.html

If they want to do something about a dress code that would seem like quite a sensible way to go about it.

A confrontational approach like say preventing scruffy TDs from entering the chamber would turn them into instant martyrs. Much harder to get the public wound up about people ignoring you.

[DCon]

I'm presuming that somebody on the committee on procedures and privileges is going for a silly season wind up by leaking this to The Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mingin-jeans-banned-in-dail-dress-code-203390.html

The fools never made reference to colour

Wallace will be in one of these

http://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/LotImages/7/RR0910_495_lg.jpeg

[PaddyJoe]

Serious point though. TDs are elected to the Dail to represent their constituents. Barrett and the committee would surely be acting unconstitutionally by preventing members speaking no matter what they happen to be wearing.

[Dr. FIVE]

All Ministers should be expected to present in bowler hats

[C. Flower]

Of course a suit makes people bright, intelligent, honest and most importantly above reproach.

Seanie always wore a nice suit, as did Brian Goggins, Patrick Neary and John Hurley.

On the night of 29th Sept 2008 the room was full of nice suits and hey presto 70 billion of Irish citizens money disappeared in a puff of John Players.

All the Quinns wore lovely suits. Michael Fingleton always wore a nice suit underneath the Fedora.

Exactly

[DCon]

So, under the new rules, Lucinda could turn up like this



but Wallace could not turn up like this

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlqxM6EzJNNA9uzCSGnvQE6lOX4t4b1 _lFehv_RuaRpHuImrmTog

[Baron von Biffo]

Serious point though. TDs are elected to the Dail to represent their constituents. Barrett and the committee would surely be acting unconstitutionally by preventing members speaking no matter what they happen to be wearing.

The Dail is entitled to regulate its own affairs and the courts are very reluctant to get involved.

If it sets out a dress code then any member who didn't comply would be silencing him/her self.

[MPB]

So they're making a statement by what they wear.

Everybody is.

[Baron von Biffo]

Exactly

In the IT today a letter writer praises Sean Quinn for wearing a boiler suit. Is that enough to get you on the next Pro-Sean rally?

[Baron von Biffo]

So, under the new rules, Lucinda could turn up like this



Dear God no!

[Baron von Biffo]

Everybody is.

So they are saying that what they wear matters?

[Dr. FIVE]

There would have to be some compromise DCon

[MPB]

The Dail is entitled to regulate its own affairs and the courts are very reluctant to get involved.

If it sets out a dress code then any member who didn't comply would be silencing him/her self.

Of course the way the dail is set up and run by a whip system, the Govt parties could actually make a rule that says that all opposition members must wear a frock.

The Dail is not entitled to tell elected representitives what to wear. The Dail is not the representitives employer, the electorate is.

The Dail should respect the wishes of their employers, the electorate.

[DCon]

Dear God no!

it's within the rules

Wallace could also wear pink formal trousers, a bright red rugby/football jersey and a black bomber jacket

the proposed rules are far too loose

[musashi]

[I]That from the man who supports those who break the law by cutting turf on protected bogs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

Sure, they break the law by cutting the turf, but it's only to save money on heating bills, or to make a little on the side. Shure it's the Irish way!!

What's worse, far worse, is that by scouring the flora in order to get at the turf, they destroy a unique ecosystem that sustains life found nowhere else on this planet.

The permanent extinction of native Irish flora and fauna.

Say it once, say it loud, I'm Irish and I'm proud.

When the time is opportune Ming the Hypocrite will turn his back on the turf-cutters for the same reason he turned his back on the tokers; popularity.

[Baron von Biffo]

Of course the way the dail is set up and run by a whip system, the Govt parties could actually make a rule that says that all opposition members must wear a frock.

The Dail is not entitled to tell elected representitives what to wear. The Dail is not the representitives employer, the electorate is.

The Dail should respect the wishes of their employers, the electorate.

Have a look at Article 15.10 of the constitution.

[Baron von Biffo]

it's within the rules

Stop making me think of Loopy Lucy in her smalls. :mad:


Wallace could also wear pink formal trousers, a bright red rugby/football jersey and a black bomber jacket

the proposed rules are far too loose

Sometimes colour blindness is a plus. :)

[musashi]

So, under the new rules, Lucinda could turn up like this

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTckC4qNkrBGFcwpm71azWby-jMrbkcT2u8SOHkMWBDpJd6T0HU

Yeah baby :D

[MPB]

Have a look at Article 15.10 of the constitution.

Take a look at 2012.

[Baron von Biffo]

Take a look at 2012.

Article 20 only has 3 paragraphs.

[Shaadi]

I wish we had more TDs like Ming, like Ronseal he does exactly what it says on tin He was elected to represent Roscommon on a ticket of opposing the turf cutting ban and cutbacks in Roscommon hospital. Whether you agree with his policies or not, he has stuck to his principles, as a rural TD fearlessly voting for abortion legislation was a brave and principled thing to do.

All the champagne socialist pseuds in the Labour party chickened out, not for them to be taking a stand.

It'd be a very poor democracy that couldn't accept a TDs right to take part in and encourage protests against what they consider to be unjust laws.

[MPB]

Article 20 only has 3 paragraphs.

What did the bishops and the liar say in those 3 paragraphs?

Was it something to do with Govt Ministries of Education, Health and Justice colluding in the kidnap and abuse of vulnerable children by Catholic Paedophiles and Sadists?

[Baron von Biffo]

What did the bishops and the liar say in those 3 paragraphs?

Was it something to do with Govt Ministries of Education, Health and Justice colluding in the kidnap and abuse of vulnerable children by Catholic Paedophiles and Sadists?

Well yes, that's exactly what they say. How amazing that you would know that without having to waste time reading your constitution.

[People Korps]

Did Ming not get the memo that it is FG's turn to run the country now, and he should not interfere?

If Ming is in Paris I will spot him a half ounce of whatever he is having

[musashi]

I wish we had more TDs like Ming, like Ronseal he does exactly what it says on tin

Until his beliefs don't match his political ambitions, whereupon he changes the label.
Ming the Hypocrite is a fake, but don't take my word for it, wait until 100% of our turf has been stolen and he'll adopt some other populist cause.

[musashi]

If Ming is in Paris I will spot him a half ounce of whatever he is having

Havn't u heard PK, he 'quit' soon after he was elected a TD.

[PaddyJoe]

The Dail is entitled to regulate its own affairs and the courts are very reluctant to get involved.

If it sets out a dress code then any member who didn't comply would be silencing him/her self.

Apparently, the current Leinster House dress code says that members should 'dress in a manner that reflects the dignity of the House".
Maybe Ming has got it spot on after all:)


http://i48.tinypic.com/34q0f87.jpg

[Dr. FIVE]

Quit in Ireland actually

[musashi]

Apparently, the current Leinster House dress code says that members should 'dress in a manner that reflects the dignity of the House".
Maybe Ming has got it spot on after all:)

I call baloney, he wears a costume to curry favour with the average joe soap.
His costume says, "hey fellas, I'm just an average guy, just like you, go on and vote for me."
It says, "Hey, I'm anti-establishment too, look ma no tie."

Mick 'the pinko' Wallace wore such a costume and where did that get us?

[musashi]

Quit in Ireland actually

Ahem, with the greatest of esteem dr. your equivocation is vacuous and only serves to highlight his malleable ethics.

[Baron von Biffo]

I call baloney, he wears a costume to curry favour with the average joe soap.
His costume says, "hey fellas, I'm just an average guy, just like you, go on and vote for me."
It says, "Hey, I'm anti-establishment too, look ma no tie."

Yip. He's an unpleasant little narcissist.


Mick 'the pinko' Wallace wore such a costume and where did that get us?

Don't be so selfish. It got him support from the short of thinking and isn't that all that really matters?

[musashi]

Yip. He's an unpleasant little narcissist.

Perhaps; there was a time when he inspired me. I almost moved my voting registration to his constituency, such was my belief. He was to be the first TD that believed in legalizing the herb.

It took less than a month for the worm to turn.

He's a populist fake, I'll never stop believing that.

[MPB]

Well yes, that's exactly what they say. How amazing that you would know that without having to waste time reading your constitution.

Your constitution is not exactly the gospel you think it is. Is it?

Considering the people that drew it up and the laws within it that have been ignored.

The laws that were ignored by the way involve child rape, kidnap and corruption.

It just does not apply equally to everybody.

But of course women wearing jeans is far more important than state institutions kidnapping vulnerable children in order to feed a paedophile ring run by the catholic church and the irish civil service.

[Baron von Biffo]

Your constitution is not exactly the gospel you think it is. Is it?

Considering the people that drew it up and the laws within it that have been ignored.

The laws that were ignored by the way involve child rape, kidnap and corruption.

It just does not apply equally to everybody.

But of course women wearing jeans is far more important than state institutions kidnapping vulnerable children in order to feed a paedophile ring run by the catholic church and the irish civil service.

As ever your reasoning is impeccable. If Burton and FitzGerald wore jeans then no child would ever be hurt in Ireland again.

[Shaadi]

I call baloney, he wears a costume to curry favour with the average joe soap.
His costume says, "hey fellas, I'm just an average guy, just like you, go on and vote for me."
It says, "Hey, I'm anti-establishment too, look ma no tie."

Mick 'the pinko' Wallace wore such a costume and where did that get us?I don't think he does wear a costume as you say to curry favour with the average Joe Soap. It's just that he's a bit of a scruff by nature, he's still got an immature rebellious college student attitude of you're not going to force me to conform.

Ming has spent his adult life attempting to fight the system through the political process without seeking any financial gain other than a modest lifestyle for himself. Mick Wallace on the other hand is a flamboyant developer who has an appetite for the good life as well as a bit of a social conscience, he only developed an appetite for the Dail when he ran into financial trouble.

[MPB]

As ever your reasoning is impeccable. If Burton and FitzGerald wore jeans then no child would ever be hurt in Ireland again.

And as usual your desire to feign intelligence by attempting to be cryptic leads to another pointless, inane post.

[C. Flower]

I don't think he does wear a costume as you say to curry favour with the average Joe Soap. It's just that he's a bit of a scruff by nature, he's still got an immature rebellious college student attitude of you're not going to force me to conform.

Ming has spent his adult life attempting to fight the system through the political process without seeking any financial gain other than a modest lifestyle for himself. Mick Wallace on the other hand is a flamboyant developer who has an appetite for the good life as well as a bit of a social conscience, he only developed an appetite for the Dail when he ran into financial trouble.

That seems a fair description of both.

[Dr. FIVE]

Ming


MY side of the story. Unfiltered.

The Dail cannot function with a biased chair. A great referee is barely noticeable on the pitch yet keeps everything in order. This is often not the case and games are on many occasions spoiled as both a spectacle and a contest by a referee’s overzealous intervention. As a spectator this can be very frustrating as one does not watch sport to see the referee dominate affairs. Another trait of a great referee is that they are consistent and fair in their rulings. If this does not happen then the game becomes a farce and usually spills over into confrontation. However while it may be frustrating to have a 'dodgy' referee at the end of the day it is only a game.

The same logic applies to chairing a meeting. The chairs job is to guarantee that the business of the day is done in an orderly fashion. In a similar manner to a referee on the sporting field they should ideally be pretty much anonymous. Also consistency and fairness are vital. That is most definitely not the case when it comes to Sean Barrett’s chairmanship of the Dáil. It saddens me to say this but in my fifteen years in politics I have never come across a worse chairperson and if the Dáil is to function properly then he must resign.

My frustrations with this man came to a head on the Wednesday before the Dáil adjourned for the summer. The personal insolvency bill was being debated and soon to be voted on. This to me was the most important piece of legislation to go before the Dáil in my short time as a member. I was disgusted at the fact that the legislation in question would give more power to the banks and shaft ordinary citizens.

After the relevant minister, Alan Shatter, gave his closing speech the Ceann Comhairle asked whether the question was agreed to or not. However the Ceann Comhairle's question was obviously not heard by the opposition members who were present in the house. Government members who had heard the question needless to say 'agreed'. The Ceann Comhairle then without giving the opposition anytime to dissent announces that "I understand it is now proposed to refer the Bill to the Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality". This was immediately opposed by Deputy Mattie McGrath who made it abundantly clear that "the question is not agreed". This was followed by several protestations from the opposition including myself that we must be allowed to vote on this most important of matters. The Ceann Comhairle then, to my complete and utter dismay, rapidly adjourned the Dáil until the following day.

This for me was the final straw in Sean Barrett’s incompetent and biased chairing of Dáil proceedings. The Ceann Comhairle stated that he understood that the bill should be referred to committee. Well his understanding was incorrect given that it was quiet clear that members of the opposition were not in agreement. Some people may argue that the opposition should have all said 'not agreed' on time. Maybe so, but that does not give the Ceann Comhairle the right to ignore our mandate. He could clearly have still allowed a vote to take place but decided to deny us that right. His decision was against the spirit of democracy and freedom which the Ceann Comhairle’s position is meant to embody.

It is a fact that there are precedents whereby a motion can be put a second time. One such example is from 1937, where the Leas Ceann Comhairle put the motion a second time because "the chair was of the opinion that the question was not understood". There are in fact numerous other examples. So given that it is obvious that the question put by the chair was either not heard or misunderstood then why were we not given the chance to register our disdain for this bill and to vote against it. I can only conclude that Sean Barrett does not know his job either that or it is quite clear that he is biased in favour of government legislation.

Now having been denied my democratic right it is I who is expected to apologise to the Ceann Comhairle. I am expected to do this because apparently one is not meant to approach them outside of the Dáil chamber. Fair enough. However if such a rule exists then it should be stuck to rigidly. That is most definitely not the case when it comes to Sean Barrett because I have, since this incident took place, been informed by many that the Ceann Comhairle freely associates with TDs in the Dáil bar. I myself am a rare visitor to the Dáil bar because I have neither the time nor the desire to drink with people who I do not like. Maybe if I raised my concerns while having pint with him it would have been okay?

It has also been suggested that during this encounter the Ceann Comhairle was subject to a "vicious, unprovoked verbal assault". I along with Deputy John Halligan deny this. This is clearly a pathetic attempt by Sean Barrett and his Fine Gael Colleague and Chief Whip Paul Keogh to cover up for what is a blatant abuse of power by a Ceann Comhairle.

The following incident shows clearly that I am now dealing with people who openly practice double standards. During order of business on Thursday July 7th 2011 Deputy Finian McGrath looked for a withdrawal of remarks which had earlier been made about me by Deputy Frank Feighan. Deputy Feighan had referred to me as a 'political thug'. The Ceann Comhairle chose to ignore the request for a withdrawal. However subsequent comments made by Paul Keheo, the man who now it appears is easily upset by brisk exchanges, shows up what is nothing but complete and utter hypocrisy. Deputy Keoghs response to a request for withdrawal of the remarks was that "If he cannot stick the heat, he should get out of the kitchen".

The Ceann Comhairle may very well have the right not to be questioned outside the chamber. With all rights come responsibilities. Sean Barrett has the responsibility of fairly chairing Dáil proceedings. I believe he has been a miserable failure in carrying out this responsibility. With that he has given up his right to go unchallenged, wherever he may be.

[MPB]

Well said Ming.

Everytime we can point out the arrogance of the pampered classes, it is a blow for change.

Of course it would have been better for some if you wore a nice suit while speaking the truth, as jeans and a grandfather shirt are synonomous with liars and charlatans.

Just look at the folk singers that were running the global financial system.

[Baron von Biffo]

Ming

MY side of the story. Unfiltered.

The Dail cannot function with a biased chair. A great referee is barely noticeable on the pitch yet keeps everything in order. This is often not the case and games are on many occasions spoiled as both a spectacle and a contest by a referee’s overzealous intervention. As a spectator this can be very frustrating as one does not watch sport to see the referee dominate affairs. Another trait of a great referee is that they are consistent and fair in their rulings. If this does not happen then the game becomes a farce and usually spills over into confrontation. However while it may be frustrating to have a 'dodgy' referee at the end of the day it is only a game.

The same logic applies to chairing a meeting. The chairs job is to guarantee that the business of the day is done in an orderly fashion. In a similar manner to a referee on the sporting field they should ideally be pretty much anonymous. Also consistency and fairness are vital. That is most definitely not the case when it comes to Sean Barrett’s chairmanship of the Dáil. It saddens me to say this but in my fifteen years in politics I have never come across a worse chairperson and if the Dáil is to function properly then he must resign.

My frustrations with this man came to a head on the Wednesday before the Dáil adjourned for the summer. The personal insolvency bill was being debated and soon to be voted on. This to me was the most important piece of legislation to go before the Dáil in my short time as a member. I was disgusted at the fact that the legislation in question would give more power to the banks and shaft ordinary citizens.

After the relevant minister, Alan Shatter, gave his closing speech the Ceann Comhairle asked whether the question was agreed to or not. However the Ceann Comhairle's question was obviously not heard by the opposition members who were present in the house. Government members who had heard the question needless to say 'agreed'. The Ceann Comhairle then without giving the opposition anytime to dissent announces that "I understand it is now proposed to refer the Bill to the Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality". This was immediately opposed by Deputy Mattie McGrath who made it abundantly clear that "the question is not agreed". This was followed by several protestations from the opposition including myself that we must be allowed to vote on this most important of matters. The Ceann Comhairle then, to my complete and utter dismay, rapidly adjourned the Dáil until the following day.

This for me was the final straw in Sean Barrett’s incompetent and biased chairing of Dáil proceedings. The Ceann Comhairle stated that he understood that the bill should be referred to committee. Well his understanding was incorrect given that it was quiet clear that members of the opposition were not in agreement. Some people may argue that the opposition should have all said 'not agreed' on time. Maybe so, but that does not give the Ceann Comhairle the right to ignore our mandate. He could clearly have still allowed a vote to take place but decided to deny us that right. His decision was against the spirit of democracy and freedom which the Ceann Comhairle’s position is meant to embody.

It is a fact that there are precedents whereby a motion can be put a second time. One such example is from 1937, where the Leas Ceann Comhairle put the motion a second time because "the chair was of the opinion that the question was not understood". There are in fact numerous other examples. So given that it is obvious that the question put by the chair was either not heard or misunderstood then why were we not given the chance to register our disdain for this bill and to vote against it. I can only conclude that Sean Barrett does not know his job either that or it is quite clear that he is biased in favour of government legislation.

Now having been denied my democratic right it is I who is expected to apologise to the Ceann Comhairle. I am expected to do this because apparently one is not meant to approach them outside of the Dáil chamber. Fair enough. However if such a rule exists then it should be stuck to rigidly. That is most definitely not the case when it comes to Sean Barrett because I have, since this incident took place, been informed by many that the Ceann Comhairle freely associates with TDs in the Dáil bar. I myself am a rare visitor to the Dáil bar because I have neither the time nor the desire to drink with people who I do not like. Maybe if I raised my concerns while having pint with him it would have been okay?

It has also been suggested that during this encounter the Ceann Comhairle was subject to a "vicious, unprovoked verbal assault". I along with Deputy John Halligan deny this. This is clearly a pathetic attempt by Sean Barrett and his Fine Gael Colleague and Chief Whip Paul Keogh to cover up for what is a blatant abuse of power by a Ceann Comhairle.

The following incident shows clearly that I am now dealing with people who openly practice double standards. During order of business on Thursday July 7th 2011 Deputy Finian McGrath looked for a withdrawal of remarks which had earlier been made about me by Deputy Frank Feighan. Deputy Feighan had referred to me as a 'political thug'. The Ceann Comhairle chose to ignore the request for a withdrawal. However subsequent comments made by Paul Keheo, the man who now it appears is easily upset by brisk exchanges, shows up what is nothing but complete and utter hypocrisy. Deputy Keoghs response to a request for withdrawal of the remarks was that "If he cannot stick the heat, he should get out of the kitchen".

The Ceann Comhairle may very well have the right not to be questioned outside the chamber. With all rights come responsibilities. Sean Barrett has the responsibility of fairly chairing Dáil proceedings. I believe he has been a miserable failure in carrying out this responsibility. With that he has given up his right to go unchallenged, wherever he may be.

He really is a nasty little man, isn't he?

[PaddyJoe]

He really is a nasty little man, isn't he?

Barrett? Yes, I'd tend to agree with that. Doesn't help that he's so obviously biased to FG in the chair every day at question time when Enda is being sniped at by an admittedly fairly ineffectual opposition;)

[Baron von Biffo]

Barrett? Yes, I'd tend to agree with that. Doesn't help that he's so obviously biased to FG in the chair every day at question time when Enda is being sniped at by an admittedly fairly ineffectual opposition;)

;)

[Apjp]

"Flanagan referred to it several times on Twitter. “She applauds law-breaking when it gets her votes and denies it then when her bosses are around,” one tweet said."

That from the man who supports those who break the law by cutting turf on protected bogs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0808/1224321714882.html

In fairness baron everything Hitler did in Germany was legal. You telling us we should obey every law just cos its there? For instance the law on abortion? or on gay marriage? Or on taxes to bail out banks?

Its like when Nixon was bombing the shyte out of asia and having people arrested for 'illegally' not paying taxes. Sometimes we have a responsibility to break injust laws. Turf cutting may or may not be injust, but your attitude seems to imply all laws should be obeyed without question.

[Apjp]

It's Ming, Boyd-Barrett, Wallace et al who are making a big issue about dress in the Dail. Funnily enough all 3 have issues with obeying the law.

It was illegal to post letters in Irish once as well. It was also illegal once upon a time in Ireland to buy land or play hurling. WTF is your point?

[Apjp]

The modern dail is as relevant to our lives and democratic(ie an institution for the men of property) as Grattan's stooge parliament.

[MPB]

It was illegal to post letters in Irish once as well. It was also illegal once upon a time in Ireland to buy land or play hurling. WTF is your point?

He does,nt have one.

He won,t ever have one.

[Baron von Biffo]

He does,nt have one.

He won,t ever have one.

Consanguinity: There's a reason it's taboo.

[PaddyJoe]

Consanguinity: There's a reason it's taboo.

What was that further up about unorthodox dressers Ming, Boyd-Barrett and Wallace having issue with obeying the law?
Haughey, Ahern, Flynn, Lawlor, Burke, Callely....hmm

[Baron von Biffo]

What was that further up about unorthodox dressers Ming, Boyd-Barrett and Wallace having issue with obeying the law?
Haughey, Ahern, Flynn, Lawlor, Burke, Callely....hmm

At least one of them is on record as distinguishing himself by sartorial eccentricity in the chamber, to the disgust of one of the others. ;)

[PaddyJoe]

At least one of them is on record as distinguishing himself by sartorial eccentricity in the chamber, to the disgust of one of the others. ;)


So bold was Flynn's personal style, that the late Taoiseach Charles Haughey was moved to take note on the Mayoman's very first day in the Dail, albeit for all the wrong reasons.

"Somebody tell that clown, he's in the Dail now, not the ring of Duffy's Circus," Haughey was heard to mutter to a frontbench colleague as Flynn pranced into the chamber, sporting a brilliant white suit.
:)

[Baron von Biffo]

So bold was Flynn's personal style, that the late Taoiseach Charles Haughey was moved to take note on the Mayoman's very first day in the Dail, albeit for all the wrong reasons.

"Somebody tell that clown, he's in the Dail now, not the ring of Duffy's Circus," Haughey was heard to mutter to a frontbench colleague as Flynn pranced into the chamber, sporting a brilliant white suit.

:)

That's fast tracking for 1.00 in the morning PJ.

Hats off.

[PaddyJoe]

That's fast tracking for 1.00 in the morning PJ.

Hats off.

As the mammy used to say many years ago...'You won't be as smart when I'm calling you for Mass in the morning"
:D

[DCon]

So bold was Flynn's personal style, that the late Taoiseach Charles Haughey was moved to take note on the Mayoman's very first day in the Dail, albeit for all the wrong reasons.

"Somebody tell that clown, he's in the Dail now, not the ring of Duffy's Circus," Haughey was heard to mutter to a frontbench colleague as Flynn pranced into the chamber, sporting a brilliant white suit.

:)


A white suit (tie optional) will be perfectly compliant with the new dress code

I notice there is no reference to footwear either so sandals (white socks optional) could really finish off the look

[DCon]

discussing the dress code on Newstalk now

[disability student]

discussing the dress code on Newstalk now

It's getting plain silly re dress code as their ego is getting in their way.It's childish as if they think they are of some importance:mad:.

I would prefer plain casual dress.

[fluffybiscuits]

discussing the dress code on Newstalk now

Heard it this morning. Some ex hurler waffling on about wearing a suit. Dont judge a book by its cover floated through my mind but the world seems to work on first impressions....

[DCon]

It's getting plain silly re dress code as their ego is getting in their way.It's childish as if they think they are of some importance:mad:.

I would prefer plain casual dress.

at least a code that makes sense.

Wallace will be fully within code if he wears a bright pink suit and knee high Doc Marten's. Women can wear anything, except jeans.

Ming could have his muppet t-shirt image transferred to the back of a suit jacket and comply perfectly.

Make it business casual and leave it at that

[fluffybiscuits]

at least a code that makes sense.

Wallace will be fully within code if he wears a bright pink suit and knee high Doc Marten's. Women can wear anything, except jeans.

Ming could have his muppet t-shirt image transferred to the back of a suit jacket and comply perfectly.

Make it business casual and leave it at that

Dress codes show conformity though, seriously why should we all be a slave? In Iran people dont wear ties as its seen as a sign of Western imperialism. Lets create a rule, no tracksuits or shorts and all shirts have a collar (polos, shirts etc). To be honest judging a person on how they dress is just elitist.

[C. Flower]

Heard it this morning. Some ex hurler waffling on about wearing a suit. Dont judge a book by its cover floated through my mind but the world seems to work on first impressions....


A lot of people can't afford a suit. Dotty to make them a requirement for public representatives in the Dail.

A clear sign that they are paid too much.

[Ephilant]

To be honest judging a person on how they dress is just elitist.

So is trying to force a person to conform to certain rules put in place by an elite, like a dress code. And you just never know what might happen. Wasn't there at some stage one of Berlosconi's protegees in parliament who started flashing her boobs around the place at every occasion?
Now, wouldn't that liven up the place no end? Noonan topless...:eek:

[Baron von Biffo]

A lot of people can't afford a suit. Dotty to make them a requirement for public representatives in the Dail.

A clear sign that they are paid too much.

Let's slash the pay of politicians until they can only afford track suits. Absolutely guaranteed to improve the quality of our politicians.

[DCon]

Everyone should dress like Ahern on the first day of the Dail to celebrate the new code

http://img.rasset.ie/0001662a-970.jpg

[Sidewinder]

Let's slash the pay of politicians until they can only afford track suits. Absolutely guaranteed to improve the quality of our politicians.

Yeah cos ramping up their pay to ridiculous amounts for the last 20 years has clearly attracted a Dail of Einstein-level geniuses of godlike foresight and competence.

Let's face it, I could pick 166 randomers out of the population to replace those monkeys and the collective IQ of Dail would soar. Far from being "representative" of the best aspects of Irishness our corrupt political system has resulted in the Dail being a pure representation of all the very worst and self-destructive aspects of Irish society.

You love trying to defend the status quo Baron but it really is a waste of your time. The ancien regime has been exposed, the emperor has no clothes, and only the most drooling credulous peasants still actually believe any of those clowns in Kildare St have a damn clue about anything, are competent and qualified to lead the country forward, or have any interest other than lining their own pockets. Shower of criminal vermin and nothing else.

[Slim Buddha]

Everyone should dress like Ahern on the first day of the Dail to celebrate the new code

http://img.rasset.ie/0001662a-970.jpg

Interesting photo. Putin is the only survivor of this lot.

[Ephilant]

Let's slash the pay of politicians until they can only afford track suits. Absolutely guaranteed to improve the quality of our politicians.

It would also settle the dress code argument.

[ZeroWedge]

Ming is one of the straightest talking TDs we've ever had. He can be a little abrasive but I'll take that any day over scum like Phil Hogan.

We need more people like Ming in the Dail, to fight against the Phil Hogans who would enslave our entire country to foreign corporations.

[fluffybiscuits]

A lot of people can't afford a suit. Dotty to make them a requirement for public representatives in the Dail.

A clear sign that they are paid too much.

+1

Suits are only and should only be for extra special occasions, work is not a special occasion! Suits to me are a sign of elitism...

[Baron von Biffo]

Yeah cos ramping up their pay to ridiculous amounts for the last 20 years has clearly attracted a Dail of Einstein-level geniuses of godlike foresight and competence.

Let's face it, I could pick 166 randomers out of the population to replace those monkeys and the collective IQ of Dail would soar. Far from being "representative" of the best aspects of Irishness our corrupt political system has resulted in the Dail being a pure representation of all the very worst and self-destructive aspects of Irish society.

You love trying to defend the status quo Baron but it really is a waste of your time. The ancien regime has been exposed, the emperor has no clothes, and only the most drooling credulous peasants still actually believe any of those clowns in Kildare St have a damn clue about anything, are competent and qualified to lead the country forward, or have any interest other than lining their own pockets.

You do more for the status quo than I ever will because you're a slave to your anger. Those who wanted the failed policies of the last government to continue beyond the GE successfully stirred up that blind anger. They whipped up the cretinous ABFF frenzy that blotted out all rational thought. And when the votes were counted, we discovered that we had voted for what we were angry about.

I don't entertain any great expectation that the next GE will be much different. It's much easier to emote than to think.


Shower of <mod> and nothing else.

Your constant gratuitous attacks on travellers are really very distasteful.

[homer]

While dress is becoming more informal, I think An Oireachtas should be at least "smart casual".

Pls dont ask me to define that - my daughters tell me when. as I often do, I fall below that standard

[C. Flower]

So what are we meant to be not looking at while we think about Ming ?

[C. Flower]

I was quite wrong to ignore this.

Behind the headlines, the matter is a serious one. The Ceann Comhairle did not take a vote on the Personal Insolvency Bill ( a very unsatisfactory bill that leaves people at the whim of the banks), and then, according to John Halligan TD (Waterford, Independent), told him to "Go away" when he asked him in the Dail corridor why no vote was taken.

After all the talk of "respect for the Daíl" and t-shirts, it seems that it is Sean Barrett that has the questions to answer.



Last night Mr Halligan released the text of a letter which he sent this week to the Clerk of the Dáil, Kieran Coughlan, in response to correspondence dated July 19th.
In the letter he says he was appalled at the manner in which the Ceann Comhairle handled the debate on the Second Stage of the Personal Insolvency Bill.
“After the close of business, I approached the Ceann Comhairle in the corridor to query why he had not called a vote and was told to ‘go away’. When I continued to ask why a vote had not been forthcoming, the Ceann Comhairle held up his hand and again told me to ‘go away’, a reaction I found highly inappropriate and offensive from a constitutional office holder.”
Mr Halligan added that he was incredulous that his request for information from the Ceann Comhairle was construed as behaviour which warranted an apology to the Dáil and Mr Barrett.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/front/2012/0815/1224322199426.html?cmpid=morning-digest&utm_source=morning-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Halligan_%28politician%29

[Baron von Biffo]

I was quite wrong to ignore this.

Behind the headlines, the matter is a serious one. The Ceann Comhairle did not take a vote on the Personal Insolvency Bill ( a very unsatisfactory bill that leaves people at the whim of the banks), and then, according to John Halligan TD (Waterford, Independent), told him to "Go away" when he asked him in the Dail corridor why no vote was taken.

After all the talk of "respect for the Daíl" and t-shirts, it seems that it is Sean Barrett that has the questions to answer.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/front/2012/0815/1224322199426.html?cmpid=morning-digest&utm_source=morning-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Halligan_%28politician%29

It's always good to hear both sides. We only have Halligan's version of events so we don't know the whole story.

Ming's statement (http://www.politicalworld.org/showpost.php?p=267626&postcount=63) says there was a vote but despite the fact that this was "the most important piece of legislation to go before the Dáil in my short time as a member", the opposition wasn't paying attention and by the time they woke up enough to ask for a walk-through vote the Dail had moved on to other business.

[C. Flower]

It's always good to hear both sides. We only have Halligan's version of events so we don't know the whole story.

Ming's statement (http://www.politicalworld.org/showpost.php?p=267626&postcount=63) says there was a vote but despite the fact that this was "the most important piece of legislation to go before the Dáil in my short time as a member", the opposition wasn't paying attention and by the time they woke up enough to ask for a walk-through vote the Dail had moved on to other business.

Thanks. That is nice and clear.

I wasn't able to locate John Halligan's letter as he doesn't seem to have a website.

I agree that it behoves the Opposition to keep their eye on the ball during debates. The CC sounds like a total b., but was acting within his remit.

The Tech Group are saying this was not very nice. Indeed, it was not, but whoever said politics was a clean business?

[PaddyJoe]

Looks like this is the end of the line for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges investigation into Ming and Halligan:

Last night, the Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe, who is also a member of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, accepted there was little it could do by way of sanction. He said there was no standing order that covered situations that occurred outside the Dáil chamber.

“Had there been sanctions available to us they would have been enforced. Because there is no standing order for situations like this, there is very little we can do.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0926/1224324429069.html

[MPB]

Looks like this is the end of the line for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges investigation into Ming and Halligan:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0926/1224324429069.html

Story of this Govts life.