The Decline of Russian Democracy - Stifling dissent and opinion

[fluffybiscuits]

Russia is in theory only a new country. For years living under one of the most oppressive regimes and as centre of the USSR the people of Russia suffered brutal conditions and freedom of speech was severely restricted . Protests were crushed and dissent was stifled through force but have things changed? Russia is in its prime. They have a young population and are coming to form one of the biggest economies in the world and most industrialised making up the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) but at what price?

Elections in 2011 were widely believed to be rigged with various spokespersons and oberservors noticing ballot stuffing in and around Moscow and other polling stations in the region. Even before this though the people were afraid to speak as was the case with gay rights activisits who were banned from holding gay pride marches in 2010 in St Petersburg and this was followed suit in Moscow this year with the Mayor Of Moscow ,Yury Luzhkov ,stating in 2007



"For several years, Moscow has experienced unprecedented pressure to conduct a gay pride parade, which cannot be called anything but a satanic act,"

Numerous reporters have been threatened for being critical of the establishment and in more serious cases reporters were shot which do not certainly needed to be mentioned as they are well known but what is not as well known is cases like that of Sergei Sokolov who was allegedly driven to a forest by a top investigator and threatened with his life. There has been denials of course of this but the fact that there has been sixteen journalists killed in the last few years means there could be something to it.

Finally in a show that the establishment wants an autocracy and is afraid of the people , draconian legislation has been brought in that bans marches that are not authorised. This has been brought in to combat the growing tide of what the Russian establishment sees as dissent, a move by the people to empower themselves. People who gather with "authorisation" are subject to a fine of €5900 .

As Thomas Jefferson said


“A government afraid of its citizens is a Democracy. Citizens afraid of government is tyranny!”

Judging by the Russian establishments actions, they are very afraid...



References:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/moscow-mayor-bans-satanic-gay-parade/story?id=9663327

http://www.channel4.com/news/moscow-protests-over-rigged-russian-elections

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/reports-russias-top-investigator-denies-threatening-to-kill-a-reporter/2012/06/14/gJQA83q6bV_story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russias-it-girl-makes-splash-by-joining-ranks-of-anti-putin-opposition-_-and-pays-the-price/2012/06/14/gJQA46wWcV_story_1.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5b1bbf82-b3ec-11e1-8fea-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1xmcgCJv4

[fluffybiscuits]

http://blogs.voanews.com/russia-watch/2012/06/15/putin-fails-to-scare-moscows-middle-class/

On the eve of the protest, his police raided the homes and apartments of the best known opposition leaders. At the time of Tuesday’s protest, most of these leaders were stuck in lengthy police interrogations.

Then, an hour before marching time, massive and mysterious “denial of service,” or DNS, attacks knocked off the internet Dozhd, Russia’s only news outlets to provide live and sympathetic coverage of the protests

[riposte]

People in the "Free" "West" are not happy unless there is murder and mayhem going on in every other part of the world.

Elections in every country in the world "are rigged" .........except in those countries where the press is already controlled .......by the CIA.

[C. Flower]

People in the "Free" "West" are not happy unless there is murder and mayhem going on in every other part of the world.

Elections in every country in the world "are rigged" .........except in those countries where the press is already controlled .......by the CIA.

The US of course has its oppositionists of choice lined up so that a "transition" can be made from the too-independent nationalist-oligarch Putin to an entirely compliant oligarch-in-waiting - perhaps Kasparov.

[Slim Buddha]

This always raises a wry smile in me

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article106413322/Gipfeltreffen-mit-Barroso-Putin-und-Van-Rompuy.html

Three heavyweight politicians but only one actually elected :D

[riposte]

The US of course has its oppositionists of choice lined up so that a "transition" can be made from the too-independent nationalist-oligarch Putin to an entirely compliant oligarch-in-waiting - perhaps Kasparov.


K24.....
Your move CF.

[Slim Buddha]

The US of course has its oppositionists of choice lined up so that a "transition" can be made from the too-independent nationalist-oligarch Putin to an entirely compliant oligarch-in-waiting - perhaps Kasparov.

Kasparov has little or no support. He is associated in the Russian mind with being allied to "foreign" (read American) influences. A Russian colleague of mine told me that she believed he is more successful at gathering votes for Putin than he is for himself.

Putin gathers significant support in the provinces by painting opponents as being close to American groups.

[Count Bobulescu]

Word is............the CIA intend to install Ron Paul!

[C. Flower]

Word is............the CIA intend to install Ron Paul!

Thanks for letting us know, Count B.

[fluffybiscuits]

The US of course has its oppositionists of choice lined up so that a "transition" can be made from the too-independent nationalist-oligarch Putin to an entirely compliant oligarch-in-waiting - perhaps Kasparov.

Is there anyone on the Russian politial spectrum who is independent of both American influence or Russian right wing nationalism? This lot called A Just Russia seem to be worth a look in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Just_Russia

[Slim Buddha]

Is there anyone on the Russian politial spectrum who is independent of both American influence or Russian right wing nationalism? This lot called A Just Russia seem to be worth a look in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Just_Russia

I don't think there is anybody on the political spectrum in Russia at the moment to challenge Putin. There maybe dissent in Moscow and St. Petersburg but in the provinces, in the army and in the business community, he has massive support. His political acumen is such that he knows what the average Russian is thinking and when he needs to, he wraps himself in the flag. Whatever you say about him, get used to him being around for a long time to come.

[fluffybiscuits]

I don't think there is anybody on the political spectrum in Russia at the moment to challenge Putin. There maybe dissent in Moscow and St. Petersburg but in the provinces, in the army and in the business community, he has massive support. His political acumen is such that he knows what the average Russian is thinking and when he needs to, he wraps himself in the flag. Whatever you say about him, get used to him being around for a long time to come.

Putin himself can be prime minister, that is not an issue (even if the elections were not fair as put by the electoral observers) . The axe people have to grind with Putin is that he is in no way a friend of human rights. Outside of the bigger cities people are not seeing the bigger picture, its almost like they have jobs so lets not rock the boat. The man is a populist , tell them what they want to hear meanwhile the working man of Moscow and Petersburg keeps his trap shut. The Russians are doing themselves no favours, the blanket of illusion only stays for so long....

[Slim Buddha]

Putin himself can be prime minister, that is not an issue (even if the elections were not fair as put by the electoral observers) . The axe people have to grind with Putin is that he is in no way a friend of human rights. Outside of the bigger cities people are not seeing the bigger picture, its almost like they have jobs so lets not rock the boat. The man is a populist , tell them what they want to hear meanwhile the working man of Moscow and Petersburg keeps his trap shut. The Russians are doing themselves no favours, the blanket of illusion only stays for so long....

We have lived with the illusion that Ireland is a functioning democracy for the best part of a century!
I am no great fan of Putin but the sight of Barroso and van Rompuy going to St. Petersburg to give him a lecture was almost too funny for words. Two technocratic fonctionaires, elected by nobody in a popular vote go to Russia to lecture the elected President of that country on democracy! Irony or what????

[riposte]

Putin himself can be prime minister, that is not an issue (even if the elections were not fair as put by the electoral observers) . The axe people have to grind with Putin is that he is in no way a friend of human rights. Outside of the bigger cities people are not seeing the bigger picture, its almost like they have jobs so lets not rock the boat. The man is a populist , tell them what they want to hear meanwhile the working man of Moscow and Petersburg keeps his trap shut. The Russians are doing themselves no favours, the blanket of illusion only stays for so long....

Putin is a populist. Shocking!

Maybe he'd be more acceptable to the "Free West" if he joined the CIA ..... like Gorbachev ........and bring his country to wreck and ruin.

[Slim Buddha]

Putin is a populist. Shocking!

Maybe he'd be more acceptable to the "Free West" if he joined the CIA ..... like Gorbachev ........and bring his country to wreck and ruin.

Or had allowed Kodorkovsky bring in Halliburton and the Carlyle Group into Yukos when it controlled vast oil reserves in Siberia in 2003.

[fluffybiscuits]

We have lived with the illusion that Ireland is a functioning democracy for the best part of a century!
I am no great fan of Putin but the sight of Barroso and van Rompuy going to St. Petersburg to give him a lecture was almost too funny for words. Two technocratic fonctionaires, elected by nobody in a popular vote go to Russia to lecture the elected President of that country on democracy! Irony or what????

The irony would be lost on a lot of people were it not for Barroso and co paying a visit! The difference between here and Russia is though we did not hammer the ***** out of gay rights marchers or intimidate political rivals with threats of violence. Putin tries to paint this image of himself as being the man of the people;...

http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2007/08/putin-thumb.jpg

If his propoganda is so successful why is there allegations of vote rigging? He has screwed up the illusion big time....

[riposte]

If his propoganda is so successful why is there allegations of vote rigging? .

Those in the Media employed by the CIA have to do something to earn their money.

[fluffybiscuits]

Those in the Media employed by the CIA have to do something to earn their money.

Spin stories on Putin? They would want to curry favour with him he holds some sway ...

[riposte]

Spin stories on Putin? They would want to curry favour with him he holds some sway ...

No Fluffy...... the CIA never want to curry favour with Putin.

[Slim Buddha]

No Fluffy...... the CIA never want to curry favour with Putin.

Because Putin hates them!

I guess, fluffy, you just don't get Putin, do you??

[riposte]

Because Putin hates them!

I guess, fluffy, you just don't get Putin, do you??

He gave Obama a real cold stare in Mexico yesterday. It's personal with him.

Somehow I think Putin sees America's bankruptcy as an opportunity for the resurgence of Russia.

[Slim Buddha]

He gave Obama a real cold stare in Mexico yesterday.

Somehow I think Putin sees America's bankruptcy as an opportunity for the resurgence of Russia.

When Mededev was President, Obama refused to talk to Putin. He insisted on "President-to-President dialogue, despite the reality of the power split in Moscow. Putin wasn't impressed at the time and still isn't. He has a huge job ahead of him diversifying the Russian economy but he is a realist and knows Obama is not the cuddly toy some dress him up to be.

[fluffybiscuits]

When Mededev was President, Obama refused to talk to Putin. He insisted on "President-to-President dialogue, despite the reality of the power split in Moscow. Putin wasn't impressed at the time and still isn't. He has a huge job ahead of him diversifying the Russian economy but he is a realist and knows Obama is not the cuddly toy some dress him up to be.

I dont get Putin at all and I am not too sure if I want to! What I do want is to see the people of Russia rise up and realise that even though they may have some wealth in their lovely little ivory towers it comes at some expense.

[riposte]

I dont get Putin at all and I am not too sure if I want to! What I do want is to see the people of Russia rise up and realise that even though they may have some wealth in their lovely little ivory towers it comes at some expense.

Clearly you don't like Putin fluffy ...... is it cos he's Russian?
Have any you problems with the Chinese?.... after all ...they are yellow.

[Slim Buddha]

Clearly you don't like Putin fluffy ...... is it cos he's Russian?
Have any you problems with the Chinese?.... after all ...they are yellow.

Well It could be the brain dead "western media" portrait of the former Soviet Union moulding opinion here. Irish traditional media is more guilty of this than most, spoonfeeding childish portrayals of Russia and, more recently, Ukraine to a gullible and unenquiring public. Leading up to the start of Euro 2012, the western press would have had you believe that Ukraine was a chronically corrupt place where they burnt dogs alive, where the police were scarier than the criminals, where racist thugs were everywhere and where every woman was a HIV-infected prostitute ready to infect you as she stole your wallet. All this was venomous nonsense. Of course Ukraine has problems but the image of the place peddled by the idiot western press was a disgrace. I like Ukraine and find the people fine.

As for chronic corruption, we do not have to go to Ukraine to find that.

And while Russia is not an ideal democracy, it is more democratic than the EU.

[fluffybiscuits]

Clearly you don't like Putin fluffy ...... is it cos he's Russian?
Have any you problems with the Chinese?.... after all ...they are yellow.

That is unfair a chara and you know that....

[fluffybiscuits]

Well It could be the brain dead "western media" portrait of the former Soviet Union moulding opinion here. Irish traditional media is more guilty of this than most, spoonfeeding childish portrayals of Russia and, more recently, Ukraine to a gullible and unenquiring public. Leading up to the start of Euro 2012, the western press would have had you believe that Ukraine was a chronically corrupt place where they burnt dogs alive, where the police were scarier than the criminals, where racist thugs were everywhere and where every woman was a HIV-infected prostitute ready to infect you as she stole your wallet. All this was venomous nonsense. Of course Ukraine has problems but the image of the place peddled by the idiot western press was a disgrace. I like Ukraine and find the people fine.

As for chronic corruption, we do not have to go to Ukraine to find that.

And while Russia is not an ideal democracy, it is more democratic than the EU.


I take issue not with Russia itself but with what is happening in Russian society and the constraints being placed on people themselves in Russia. You all know I have an interest in human rights and especially gay rights, its not fun sitting idly by and watching gay rights protestors getting battered by the pigs for having an "unauthorised gathering". The independent media monitors themsleves showed there was issues with the elections. I dont know if people view supporting Russia as being some sort of counter balance to American influence, personally I dont care for either, I care for the people whom live within their borders.

[riposte]

That is unfair a chara and you know that....

True....... Mea Culpa!


I take issue not with Russia itself but with what is happening in Russian society and the constraints being placed on people themselves in Russia. You all know I have an interest in human rights and especially gay rights, its not fun sitting idly by and watching gay rights protestors getting battered by the pigs for having an "unauthorised gathering". The independent media monitors themsleves showed there was issues with the elections. I dont know if people view supporting Russia as being some sort of counter balance to American influence, personally I dont care for either, I care for the people whom live within their borders.

How much do you know about Russia fluffy? Do you live there? Where do you get you information from?

As Bob Dylan said "I've learned to hate the Russians all through my whole life."

With God On Our Side Music Video - YouTube

[Slim Buddha]

I take issue not with Russia itself but with what is happening in Russian society and the constraints being placed on people themselves in Russia. You all know I have an interest in human rights and especially gay rights, its not fun sitting idly by and watching gay rights protestors getting battered by the pigs for having an "unauthorised gathering". The independent media monitors themsleves showed there was issues with the elections. I dont know if people view supporting Russia as being some sort of counter balance to American influence, personally I dont care for either, I care for the people whom live within their borders.



Issues with the elections? A bit like in Florida in 2000? Those sort of issues?

I take your point on gay rights. Russia has a lot of work to do on this issue.

[fluffybiscuits]

True....... Mea Culpa!



How much do you know about Russia fluffy? Do you live there? Where do you get you information from?

As Bob Dylan said "I've learned to hate the Russians all through my whole life."

With God On Our Side Music Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF92JKKlfRM)
;)

I cant proclaim to have lived there however I have read up on the area. Believe it or not I do read Russia Today ! indymedia, Red Pepper and any other links I can find via wikipedia plus the Guardian!


Issues with the elections? A bit like in Florida in 2000? Those sort of issues?

I take your point on gay rights. Russia has a lot of work to do on this issue.


Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly and dont forget that America seems to be the only country where Gore gets more votes overall than Bush and still loses. Im no fan of the suppression of the American people either! Russias influence and interference in affairs does not stop within its own borders either


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92679ed2-67bc-11dd-8d3b-0000779fd18c.html#axzz1yLQfGYpU




After Estonia moved a Soviet war memorial in spring last year, Russia interrupted border traffic and nationalists attacked Estonia’s embassy in Moscow and launched a wave of cyber attacks against public and private institutions. Georgia is now suffering similar web-based attacks and Estonia has sent two of its experts to give advice.

[riposte]

High quality global journalism requires investment. ]

Thank God for Rupert Murdoch.

[fluffybiscuits]

lol corrected !