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ZeroWedge
23-05-2012, 10:10 AM
The latest happenings in the islamic community in Britain.

A MUSLIM teenager was suffocated by her parents forcing a carrier bag into her mouth before disposing of her body, a court heard yesterday.

Shafilea Ahmed was threatened with a knife, a gun and locked in a room for days without food during years of abuse as she repeatedly clashed during family rows over her lifestyle, her younger sister claimed.

Giving evidence on the second day of her parents' murder tiral at Chester Crown Court, Alesha Ahmed said Shafilea (17) was drugged before being taken to Pakistan in the hopes she would change her ways.http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/muslim-girl-watched-parents-kill-her-sister-3116864.html

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 10:28 AM
Hardly Islamic Britain now is it? If you're trying to smear a community of about four million you can at least take your head out the daily mail and come up with a decent argument.
Unless of course you let the tabloid press your thinking for you?

In more political related news Leicester has gotten it's first Muslim Mayor (http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-s-Muslim-mayor-sworn/story-16118349-detail/story.html)

DCon
23-05-2012, 10:31 AM
I agree with the good Dr.

Does a murder in Ireland mean "Catholic Ireland" should be slammed?

WASP Britain commits plenty of crime too, as a community, but I see no criticism of WASP Britain.

ZeroWedge
23-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Does a murder in Ireland mean "Catholic Ireland" should be slammed?Maybe they should. I dont know. Im not an expert on catholic doctrine.

I do know that muslims around the world seem to believe that the koran says they should kill people who defy their religious rules. Hence the muslim family in Chester killing their daughter.

Its not the first time this has happened. Youd have to be blind not to see the pattern.

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 10:46 AM
So what do you suggest we do about this?

ZeroWedge
23-05-2012, 10:50 AM
This thread is for reporting incidents involving islam in Britain. Lets please try and stay on topic.

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 11:00 AM
Fair enough.

Female British Muslims are starting to find their voice

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/28/female-british-muslims-voice

Sam Lord
23-05-2012, 11:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aCZS-BwIZz8

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 11:32 AM
1 pound fish man - YouTube

Sam Lord
23-05-2012, 11:38 AM
I enjoyed all those Merchant Ivory films.

Holly
23-05-2012, 12:48 PM
Despite warnings at the time, the English allowed too many Muslims into the country which reached such a critical mass that they refused to assimilate. There are now pockets of Islam in parts of England where repressive cultural practices such as forced arranged marriages and anti-infidel attitudes have poisoned their cities. The English have only themselves to blame.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/London.jpg
London

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 01:02 PM
They Irish are still one the largest ethic groups in England today. London is the great city it is largely down to it's unparalleled diversity.
I have little sympathy for those put out over the empire following them home

Sam Lord
23-05-2012, 01:07 PM
Despite warnings at the time, the English allowed too many Muslims into the country which reached such a critical mass that they refused to assimilate. There are now pockets of Islam in parts of England where repressive cultural practices such as forced arranged marriages and anti-infidel attitudes have poisoned their cities. The English have only themselves to blame.


What do you mean by assimilate? I would suspect that the vast majority of Muslims in Britain lead lives that are not significantly different from people of other religions.

I'm not sure how common arranged marriages are in the Muslim community and I would appreciate it if you could inform me. I would note that such marriages are not exclusive to Muslims.

And as for "anti-infidel attitudes" posting one photograph proves nothing. Again, I would suspect that the predominant attitude amongst Muslims in Britain could be summed up as live and let live.

Holly
23-05-2012, 01:09 PM
They Irish are still one the largest ethic groups in England today. London is the great city it is largely down to it's unparalleled diversity. ...

Unlike the Muslims, the Irish assimilated well in England because we already share so much culturally.

fluffybiscuits
23-05-2012, 04:05 PM
Unlike the Muslims, the Irish assimilated well in England because we already share so much culturally.

After ours was raped by the English for 800 years. There is always going to be issues with people but this is due to people, not due to cultural differences. The Muslim community in Britian has fitted in perfectly well in the last few years and as Five said it was the empire as she spread her colonial hand and crushed the cultures of other nations in its imperialist conquest.

Parties like the Respect party in Britian are working to cross the divide between Muslims and other non Muslim groups as can be seen from their campaign victories. Community welfare groups like the British Muslim Council seek to stamp out the fundamentalism that has crept in to some groups . Cities like Birmingham and London are all the more diverse for such groups and you can see this with BBC having a few years back launched the BBC Asian Network.

Muslims are doing well and its attitudes like yours that need a readjustment.

Dr. FIVE
23-05-2012, 04:07 PM
The Muslims like the Irish are not a homogeneous community. Thousands of Irish found themselves isolated and died alone in the UK, likewise thousands of Africans, Asians and the rest are British by birth and see themselves as such. They are still a long way from head of state and other key powerful roles but you can find people of different origin in all levels of society. Even one as rigidly defined as the UK.

Some if not all of Britain's great cultural achievements over the last few decades owed to the influence of emigrants imo, ourselves included.

morticia
24-05-2012, 08:26 PM
Afraid bad stuff happening to those of us with 2 X chromosomes is not the sole preserve of Islam. Remember Anne Lovatt. Sigh. Not to mention the Magdalene laundries 😰

eamo
24-05-2012, 09:04 PM
I bet, for a few reasons, I have had a lot more contact with Muslim people than most Irish people have had, and I have to say I do not believe that most Muslim people here want to befriend any non-Muslim. The Islamic culture seems to control their minds and way of thinking to a much greater extent than any other religion that I am familiar with.
We rightly imo oppose those who would put Roman Catholic Cannon law above the law of the land, and that is not to say that the law of the land is somehow worthy of unquestioning obedience. Rather it is to say that it should not be subservient to any religious law. I seriously doubt that most Irish or foreign Muslims in this country would agree with that last sentence, that is apart from the very few who, like the guy I know who drinks and whom I have mentioned before, have "gone native".
In my opinion we are now developing a parallel Ireland. One which has very different views on women's place in society and one which has absolutely no acceptance or even tolerance of gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender people.
So lets get this straight, having at last thrown off the oppression of a Roman Catholic Church we are going to watch the development of an even more oppressive religion, and one which does not want to interact with us. One which feels itself superior to the natives and our drunken, tolerant ways.
Only in Ireland would it happen.

C. Flower
24-05-2012, 09:45 PM
I bet, for a few reasons, I have had a lot more contact with Muslim people than most Irish people have had, and I have to say I do not believe that most Muslim people here want to befriend any non-Muslim. The Islamic culture seems to control their minds and way of thinking to a much greater extent than any other religion that I am familiar with.
We rightly imo oppose those who would put Roman Catholic Cannon law above the law of the land, and that is not to say that the law of the land is somehow worthy of unquestioning obedience. Rather it is to say that it should not be subservient to any religious law. I seriously doubt that most Irish or foreign Muslims in this country would agree with that last sentence, that is apart from the very few who, like the guy I know who drinks and whom I have mentioned before, have "gone native".
In my opinion we are now developing a parallel Ireland. One which has very different views on women's place in society and one which has absolutely no acceptance or even tolerance of gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender people.
So lets get this straight, having at last thrown off the oppression of a Roman Catholic Church we are going to watch the development of an even more oppressive religion, and one which does not want to interact with us. One which feels itself superior to the natives and our drunken, tolerant ways.
Only in Ireland would it happen.

Are you really sure of that? I've heard non Irish people say that after many years in Ireland, they have never been invited into an Irish home. It takes two to tango...

Dr. FIVE
24-05-2012, 09:58 PM
It's no more repressive then catholicism or any other religion. We have plenty of examples.
And for all our progress, modern Ireland isn't that far ahead of islam in the treatment of woman or countless others.

fluffybiscuits
26-05-2012, 12:00 AM
I bet, for a few reasons, I have had a lot more contact with Muslim people than most Irish people have had, and I have to say I do not believe that most Muslim people here want to befriend any non-Muslim. The Islamic culture seems to control their minds and way of thinking to a much greater extent than any other religion that I am familiar with.
We rightly imo oppose those who would put Roman Catholic Cannon law above the law of the land, and that is not to say that the law of the land is somehow worthy of unquestioning obedience. Rather it is to say that it should not be subservient to any religious law. I seriously doubt that most Irish or foreign Muslims in this country would agree with that last sentence, that is apart from the very few who, like the guy I know who drinks and whom I have mentioned before, have "gone native".
In my opinion we are now developing a parallel Ireland. One which has very different views on women's place in society and one which has absolutely no acceptance or even tolerance of gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender people.
So lets get this straight, having at last thrown off the oppression of a Roman Catholic Church we are going to watch the development of an even more oppressive religion, and one which does not want to interact with us. One which feels itself superior to the natives and our drunken, tolerant ways.
Only in Ireland would it happen.

Its probably well known that I have no time for religion full stop but in my firm opinion religion is better off in the private spehere than the public sphere. Islam has gained a bad reputation as of late due to a minority of acts being carried out in its name but a lot of this is pure hokum to be honest. Islam says that a certain level of help must be given to the poor and it also stipulates that only Allah can punish people and not fellow humans. When evil men use religion as an excuse and as a weapon of control is when it gains a bad rep. As a gay man I can say with hand on heart if such a situation where any religion was to deny me rights (Catholicism has already done so) it will be met with opposition. However as things stand Im all in favour of letting anyone into the country and throwing our doors open. Muslims are my fellow humans and regardless of what religion they believe in you will always find them hospitable and friendly. :)

Holly
26-05-2012, 01:33 AM
... Islam has gained a bad reputation as of late due to a minority of acts being carried out in its name but a lot of this is pure hokum to be honest. ...

Muslims do not integrate in their host countries and their intolerance of gays and women's rights is characteristic of that religious culture, far from confined to a minority. We would be nuts to allow sharia law to be established in secular European countries.

fluffybiscuits
26-05-2012, 01:41 AM
Muslims do not integrate in their host countries and their intolerance of gays and women's rights is characteristic of that religious culture, far from confined to a minority. We would be nuts to allow sharia law to be established in secular European countries.

The Muslim community here has been in Ireland since the sixties and numbers approximately 20,000 people. Irish people have a distinct mistrust of anyone who is not remotely like them and tends to just squint through the windows . I agree a system of laws based on religion should not be allowed to occur anywhere in Ireland or the world for that matter . Some Muslim countries have allowed homosexuality to become par for the norm most notably Turkey and Indonesia the most populous Muslim country in the world. If we allow a large Muslim community here we are not going to see a repeal of the Norris case or anything similar, Catholicism has been oppressing women and gays for years and we are now nearly on par with one and other.

Dr. FIVE
26-05-2012, 01:44 AM
We would be nuts to allow sharia law to be established in secular European countries.

Absolutely, but again this assumes 'Muslims' are a homogeneous group.

Holly
26-05-2012, 01:58 AM
... Some Muslim countries have allowed homosexuality to become par for the norm most notably Turkey and Indonesia the most populous ...

This is false. In supposedly secular Turkey, on 21 May 2008 the New York based organization Human Rights Watch published a report entitled "We Need a Law for Liberation". The report documents how gay men and transgender people face beatings, robberies, police harassment, and the threat of murder. Human Rights Watch found that, in most cases, the response by the authorities is inadequate if not nonexistent. In case of hate murders against homosexuals courts apply the condition of "heavy provocation" and lower the sentences.

In Indonesia (although no one is worried about them immigrating to Britain), explicit discrimination and violent homophobia is carried out mainly by religious extremists, while subtle discrimination and marginalization occurs in daily life among friends, family, at work or school. Gays often suffer abuse by the hands of the police but it is hard to document due to victims refusing to give statements due to their sexuality. Gays are often arrested or charged due to their sexual orientation. Also gays in jails are sexually abused due to their sexual orientation, and often do not report it due to being traumatized and fear of being sent back to prison to suffer further abuse.

Dr. FIVE
26-05-2012, 02:01 AM
Religion ≠ people

irishuk
26-05-2012, 12:43 PM
Its been a while since I posted here but I see fluffybiscuits continues to spout nonsense about things he knows nothing about.
Ive lived in the UK since I was a child,over twenty years.
Whole swathes of this country have been turned into shanty towns by muslims who intimidate people from black,Asian and white backgrounds.
Their levels of crime are enormous,many of which have been covered up by the liberal press for years.
They will not integrate because they see non-muslims as inferior to them; unbelievers who can be used and abused because they are all going to hell.
The amount of serious crime they commit is on a massive scale,if you dare to even look at one of their women you risk death,the vast majority of them do not work and "Respect" is a party of muslims for muslims.
Come and live over here,fluffybiscuits,in one of these muslim shanty-towns.
Come and explain to them how you as a gay man feel everyone is equal and see what happens to you.
Pathetic.

C. Flower
26-05-2012, 06:42 PM
Its been a while since I posted here but I see fluffybiscuits continues to spout nonsense about things he knows nothing about.
Ive lived in the UK since I was a child,over twenty years.
Whole swathes of this country have been turned into shanty towns by muslims who intimidate people from black,Asian and white backgrounds.
Their levels of crime are enormous,many of which have been covered up by the liberal press for years.
They will not integrate because they see non-muslims as inferior to them; unbelievers who can be used and abused because they are all going to hell.
The amount of serious crime they commit is on a massive scale,if you dare to even look at one of their women you risk death,the vast majority of them do not work and "Respect" is a party of muslims for muslims.
Come and live over here,fluffybiscuits,in one of these muslim shanty-towns.
Come and explain to them how you as a gay man feel everyone is equal and see what happens to you.
Pathetic.

I have lived in the UK in mixed communities and found I had good neighbours from a wide variety of backgrounds.

Religion in general I find does not make people nicer to others, whether Islam or Christianity. I hope people get over it soon.

20 yards of linen=1 coat
26-05-2012, 08:22 PM
Whole swathes of this country have been turned into shanty towns by muslims who intimidate people from black,Asian and white backgrounds.
Their levels of crime are enormous,many of which have been covered up by the liberal press for years.
They will not integrate because they see non-muslims as inferior to them; unbelievers who can be used and abused because they are all going to hell.
The amount of serious crime they commit is on a massive scale,if you dare to even look at one of their women you risk death,the vast majority of them do not work and "Respect" is a party of muslims for muslims.

Wow your post is the biggest load of BS I've seen in so long.

I lived in Mile End for 6 months, I think it's got the highest concentration of Muslims anywhere in the country? It definitely feels as if it's about 80% muslim, and over 50% Bangladeshi. The only figures are for all of Tower Hamlets but that includes places like Bethnal Green and Stratford (I think) which are more white.

When I first moved in I was properly intimidated by gangs of kids hanging around, loads of young guys used to spend all day sitting on the steps of my block of flats smoking weed. But the thing is that no one drinks around there. It actually feels really safe walking around at night. All the young guys are really polite, used to respecting their elders ;).

I never once got any hassle from anyone apart from one time three 12 year olds started shouting "what you laughin at fam?" at me because one of them got totally rejected by another 12 year old, in a really funny way. But in fairness I more or less deserved it.

People are as nice or nicer than they are anywhere else in London, guys in shops are happy to help if you need stuff like boxes for moving out and stuff like that. I don't have a bad word to say about the people living in that area. The fact that everyone has such tight-knit families means that you get all kinds of awful oppresion like you read about in the OP, but at the same time there is a kind of "social fabric" there, totally missing from most of the rest of London, or probably the country, and that has a lot of good sides to it.


Come and live over here, in one of these muslim shanty-towns.


Yeah the reason the East end resembles a shanty-town is because Muslims like to live in bad conditions. You ignorant biggot, they end up there because they are really poor. How easy do you think it is to support an entire family in London on the money you get from running a little corner shop, or a stall on Whitechapel Road?

The fact that they have no money, by and large don't vote (would you, if you were a Bangladeshi living in Mile End? who is Boris Johnson to them, really? though Galloway apparently started off in Tower Hamlets...) and so don't matter to anybody, means there is sweet **** all investment in the area. There are council buildings in Mile End that have been up for demolition for 5 years but the council hasn't had the money to have them knocked down, so they are left standing half-empty. And it doesn't make for especially nice living.

20 yards of linen=1 coat
26-05-2012, 08:27 PM
Though they have actully started planting Boris bikes inconspicuously all the way out Whitechapel road to Stratford. What the Olympics started in the gentrification of the East end, they will finish by knocking down the towers in Tower Hamlets in the next year or two. Not to build new council housing though. The Bangladeshis will be forced out by crazy rent increases, and find some new squalid den of iniquity to take over somewhere in zone 6, far away from sensitive souls like you.

eamo
26-05-2012, 09:40 PM
Well........would it be ok for a foreign political party which had such anti-gay and anti-woman policies as the Islamic religion has to establish itself in Ireland? and if it is not ok for a political party then why is it ok for a religion??

Dr. FIVE
26-05-2012, 09:47 PM
No one is calling for the establishment of anything, quite the opposite but it really doesn't serve the debate when it's done through this narrow tabloid view.

Again, Religion ≠ people

20 yards of linen=1 coat
27-05-2012, 10:52 AM
The Muslims like the Irish are not a homogeneous community.

Definitely true. I don't know exactly what I meant by "social fabric". Just that there isn't as obviously a complete lack of a geographic "community" there as there are in a lot of places. With the result that you don't get, or at least I didn't come across, as much violent, street-level crime as you'd expect when you look at the surroundings. At the same time, it seemed like people were segregated more according to country of origin than religion. You'd see groups of Bangladeshi kids hanging around together, people who look North African, and groups of obviously East African decent hanging around together, but not so much groups of mixed ethnicities, even though all those are presumably Muslim (you can see the girls are anyway).

I heard a conversation in a park where a group of lads was trying to chat up a group of girls and they started the conversation by asking "where are you from?", one of the girls said "london mate", and he said "no, but where's your mum from?" and she said the name of some town, and he was like "oh wait so your not Bangladeshi?" and they talked about where they were from for ages.

Read a letter in the Evening Standard responding to some racist talking about the riots before which was along the same lines, some woman talking about how rediculous it was to talk about "the black community", when the difference between West Indian and African was massive, and then you've got Nigerian and Sudanese, and then you've got loads and loads of different ethnicities or tribes or whatever in Nigeria, and so on. It's only from outside that it looks like homogenous.


No one is calling for the establishment of anything, quite the opposite but it really doesn't serve the debate when it's done through this narrow tabloid view.

Again, Religion ≠ people

Definitely.

I don't really know how to deal with homophobia and sexism when it looks like it's grounded in an entire community. It definitely doesn't feel right to come along with preconceived ideas about how awful it is that that young woman is covering up her hair because she is oppressed into it by backward and patriarchal society. While covering up is part of a whole array of measures which reinforce women's subordinate role in the societies in which it's practiced, it doesn't feel like my place to tell her she shouldn't be wearing it. I have got no idea what it's like to be a teenage muslim girl growing up in London, and probably at least to some extent she wears it as a positive statement of identity, an "i am a teenage muslim girl in london and i'm proud of it". Which is obviously problematic because it doesn't just mean that.

What kind of approaches to challenging sexism and homophobia at a higher level than in individual instances have you come across which seem like a good idea five, or others?

C. Flower
27-05-2012, 11:35 AM
Well........would it be ok for a foreign political party which had such anti-gay and anti-woman policies as the Islamic religion has to establish itself in Ireland? and if it is not ok for a political party then why is it ok for a religion??

Really, you could be describing the Roman Catholic Church.

fluffybiscuits
27-05-2012, 09:57 PM
Definitely true. I don't know exactly what I meant by "social fabric". Just that there isn't as obviously a complete lack of a geographic "community" there as there are in a lot of places. With the result that you don't get, or at least I didn't come across, as much violent, street-level crime as you'd expect when you look at the surroundings. At the same time, it seemed like people were segregated more according to country of origin than religion. You'd see groups of Bangladeshi kids hanging around together, people who look North African, and groups of obviously East African decent hanging around together, but not so much groups of mixed ethnicities, even though all those are presumably Muslim (you can see the girls are anyway).

I heard a conversation in a park where a group of lads was trying to chat up a group of girls and they started the conversation by asking "where are you from?", one of the girls said "london mate", and he said "no, but where's your mum from?" and she said the name of some town, and he was like "oh wait so your not Bangladeshi?" and they talked about where they were from for ages.

Read a letter in the Evening Standard responding to some racist talking about the riots before which was along the same lines, some woman talking about how rediculous it was to talk about "the black community", when the difference between West Indian and African was massive, and then you've got Nigerian and Sudanese, and then you've got loads and loads of different ethnicities or tribes or whatever in Nigeria, and so on. It's only from outside that it looks like homogenous.



Definitely.

I don't really know how to deal with homophobia and sexism when it looks like it's grounded in an entire community. It definitely doesn't feel right to come along with preconceived ideas about how awful it is that that young woman is covering up her hair because she is oppressed into it by backward and patriarchal society. While covering up is part of a whole array of measures which reinforce women's subordinate role in the societies in which it's practiced, it doesn't feel like my place to tell her she shouldn't be wearing it. I have got no idea what it's like to be a teenage muslim girl growing up in London, and probably at least to some extent she wears it as a positive statement of identity, an "i am a teenage muslim girl in london and i'm proud of it". Which is obviously problematic because it doesn't just mean that.

What kind of approaches to challenging sexism and homophobia at a higher level than in individual instances have you come across which seem like a good idea five, or others?


I find fighting homophobia is something that must be done slowly. Fair play to gay pride, they can do what they want but it does not represent me. For me going into a bar or a club or a party or other normal social situations and just acting as every other person does works for me. My partner came to a fiftieth with me last year, he met some of my extended family and he got along like a house on fire. No issues what so ever. There is two conflictiong attitudes " Bloody gays wanting to **** our kids " and the other extreme " we are here and we are queer". All of it bullshit of course, Im gay but its just a facet of my life. Any gay man reading this, just live your life as if you were going out with a woman. We make it look like an everyday thing, they will too :)

eamo
27-05-2012, 10:18 PM
No one is calling for the establishment of anything, quite the opposite but it really doesn't serve the debate when it's done through this narrow tabloid view.

Again, Religion ≠ people

Well I never said Religion=people. I don't think anyone here has.
It is my opinion that we should be demanding that an anti-gay and anti woman theology should be reformed before it establishes itself in Ireland. We are only getting over the Roman Catholic religion, why allow a renewed, alien, even worse than Roman Catholic religion take hold? It is an Irish thing, we eventually fight our way out of the UK and 90 years later have again lost our sovereignty, this time given away. We eventually cop on that the R.C. church, while inspiring much good, is not the custodian of any unique virtue, and lo and behold, along comes Islam and we must all pretend that it is not a repressive, regressive, intolerant belief system.




I don't really know how to deal with homophobia and sexism when it looks like it's grounded in an entire community. It definitely doesn't feel right to come along with preconceived ideas about how awful it is that that young woman is covering up her hair because she is oppressed into it by backward and patriarchal society. While covering up is part of a whole array of measures which reinforce women's subordinate role in the societies in which it's practiced, it doesn't feel like my place to tell her she shouldn't be wearing it. I have got no idea what it's like to be a teenage muslim girl growing up in London, and probably at least to some extent she wears it as a positive statement of identity, an "i am a teenage muslim girl in london and i'm proud of it". Which is obviously problematic because it doesn't just mean that.

What kind of approaches to challenging sexism and homophobia at a higher level than in individual instances have you come across which seem like a good idea five, or others?

Well I don't know anyone who objects to anyone, man or woman covering their hair.
The problem comes with the complete shroud. One way to counter it is to refuse to recognise the gender of the person so covered. After all the purpose of the shroud, colloquially known as the burqa, niqab, chador, boshiya, is to hide any hint of gender. Ok so, why should anyone presume the person under the shroud is a woman. I always refer to a shrouded person as a person, nether man or woman, but "person", "figure", "shrouded person" or such. On the one occasion I was challenged on the use of "person" I gently gave the explanation fore mentioned. Much stammering and confusion was the response as the unfortunate guy was confronted with a concept he had not been tutored for.
As you may have guessed, I also think using english language terms such as "shroud" could also be useful in denying the shroud any acceptance here.
And yes, denying total face covering acceptance should be our aim.


Really, you could be describing the Roman Catholic Church.
I agree 100%
So how long did it take us to see through the RC church. Do we have to re invent the wheel and spend the same time kow-towing to Islam before we realise it is Roman Catholism writ large, and with an even worse attitude.
Our family is ex-Catholic and our kids were not brought up as Catholics, tho both our familys are Catholic. The extended family trauma that caused was severe. But I think it gives me the right to demand of any Muslim in this country that they forswear such practices as female genital mutilation, the wearing of complete shrouds, the banning of girls from any sport, and such like horseshit.

Holly
27-05-2012, 11:39 PM
...
But I think it gives me the right to demand of any Muslim in this country that they forswear such practices as female genital mutilation, the wearing of complete shrouds, the banning of girls from any sport, and such like horseshit.

Those governments which are turning a blind eye to the social upheaval caused by Islamic ghettos in various European countries and continuing to turn a deaf ear to their own people's rejection of communities which refuse to integrate are deplorably dense.

fluffybiscuits
30-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Those governments which are turning a blind eye to the social upheaval caused by Islamic ghettos in various European countries and continuing to turn a deaf ear to their own people's rejection of communities which refuse to integrate are deplorably dense.

I flatly refuse to agree with that for one moment. We have had Muslim immigration for fifty years and yet we do not see a ghettoisation here? Why is that? There is at least 50k Muslims for 3m people here and there has not been that much trouble. Where are these ghettos here? We have a reputation for being a friendly people, maybe its something to do with us being a lot more tolerant than other countries. Have you seen the banliue (suburbs) of Paris? French right wing nationalists have sidelines Muslims for years....

Holly
30-05-2012, 05:14 PM
... We have had Muslim immigration for fifty years and yet we do not see a ghettoisation here? Why is that?
It has to do with critical mass. Insufficient numbers of Muslims have come to Ireland to sustain a subculture. It is a different story in England and France where whole suburbs are indistinguishable from the Maghreb. The Irish are no more friendly than any other people including the Norwegians who have allowed East Oslo to develop into an Islamic enclave where 98% of some schools are Muslim.

fluffybiscuits
30-05-2012, 11:14 PM
It has to do with critical mass. Insufficient numbers of Muslims have come to Ireland to sustain a subculture. It is a different story in England and France where whole suburbs are indistinguishable from the Maghreb. The Irish are no more friendly than any other people including the Norwegians who have allowed East Oslo to develop into an Islamic enclave where 98% of some schools are Muslim.

Nothing to do with critical mass Im afraid, it has to do with the policies of the Norwegian government in Norway. Lets take this and focus on it. Norwegian government policy advocates people becoming self sufficient in terms of getting themselves jobs and getting themselves to learn the language. Norway fails to realise that they can have a bicultural model. Brevik when he went in and shot up a whole island full of teenagers was not influenced directly by Muslims in his country but by far right propoganda that he had read as stated in his whack job manifesto. The man openly admired far right wing nuts.....

What brought you to your conclusions that Islam is an issue in Europe?...

Holly
31-05-2012, 01:36 AM
...
What brought you to your conclusions that Islam is an issue in Europe?...

The riots in France and England as well as newspaper reports about conditions in some cities.

Kev Bar
31-05-2012, 03:52 AM
The latest happenings in the islamic community in Britain.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/muslim-girl-watched-parents-kill-her-sister-3116864.html

The latest crime in England to play on a prejudice near you!

fluffybiscuits
01-06-2012, 02:29 PM
The riots in France and England as well as newspaper reports about conditions in some cities.

Not to mention Nick Griffin and the BNP, Jean Marie Le Pen and the idiots that make up DRM all paint a less than rosy picture which could influence someone (Im not saying you Holly). Did you (and I ask this in all sincerity) gleam your facts from the Daily Mail, Torygraph etc?

Holly
01-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Not to mention Nick Griffin and the BNP, Jean Marie Le Pen and the idiots that make up DRM all paint a less than rosy picture which could influence someone (Im not saying you Holly). Did you (and I ask this in all sincerity) gleam your facts from the Daily Mail, Torygraph etc?

You seem to know what the Daily Mail and The Daily Telegraph have to say. I don't read either and I do not have to to be informed about Islamic communities in European cities; it is common knowledge.

fluffybiscuits
04-06-2012, 11:12 PM
You seem to know what the Daily Mail and The Daily Telegraph have to say. I don't read either and I do not have to to be informed about Islamic communities in European cities; it is common knowledge.

It is also common knowledge that JFK was shot by another man other than LH Oswald or that man faked the moon landing. What you have just said there is more or less akin to saying you take idle gossip as gospel truth. Just because the whole community says it, doesnt make it true and that reflects bad. Reason I have so much awareness of the situation of such situations is that papers like the Daily Heil and the Torygraph seemed obsessed with such little Englander stories.

Holly
04-06-2012, 11:23 PM
... What you have just said there is more or less akin to saying you take idle gossip as gospel truth. Just because the whole community says it, doesnt make it true and that reflects bad. ...

Give it a rest, fluff. All the newspapers and TV channels have reported about Islamic enclaves in European cities which have made no effort to assimilate with host cultures. If you believe that you can persuade people that Muslim subcultures in England, France, Oslo, and so forth are a pure fiction, you are delusional.

fluffybiscuits
04-06-2012, 11:31 PM
Give it a rest, fluff. All the newspapers and TV channels have reported about Islamic enclaves in European cities which have made no effort to assimilate with host cultures. If you believe that you can persuade people that Muslim subcultures in England, France, Oslo, and so forth are a pure fiction, you are delusional.

Would rather be idealistic and delusional Holly than to pack my ideas in. There is very little trouble here with the Muslim community . :)

I guess we shall agree to disagree :)

pluralist
09-08-2015, 07:14 PM
A satire on the British left's flirtation with Islamism:

http://kingofdawah.tumblr.com/post/125781711143/david-shariatmadari-meets-the-evil-maajid-nawaz