The Irish Pirate Party - doomed to fail?

[fluffybiscuits]

Excuse the cliches that I often use when I write these posts but Im not endowed with the prose of some of the writers here!

The Pirate Party of Ireland recently upped the ante when they brought their website back online and came forward with a number of articles about the attack on free speech and online rights. The main premise behind the Priate Party lest we forget is to fight the copyright restrictions on films and music and seek to diseminate same online. While this may prove popular among a hardcore number of groupies this is not a mandate that will serve them well and unless they broaden their horizon they are not going to be very successful. The party at last count had reached over 300 people and therefore was enough to be registered as a party however this coupled with their promises is not really enough to ensure a broad appeal. What they might be better off doing is to promote themselves in other areas and use outside the box methods. This could include fighting censorship, cutbacks to health and education (they would prove to be very popular in colleges), helping immigrant populations, fighting benefit cuts etc. More info on their website http://pirateparty.ie/

[C. Flower]

Excuse the cliches that I often use when I write these posts but Im not endowed with the prose of some of the writers here!

The Pirate Party of Ireland recently upped the ante when they brought their website back online and came forward with a number of articles about the attack on free speech and online rights. The main premise behind the Priate Party lest we forget is to fight the copyright restrictions on films and music and seek to diseminate same online. While this may prove popular among a hardcore number of groupies this is not a mandate that will serve them well and unless they broaden their horizon they are not going to be very successful. The party at last count had reached over 300 people and therefore was enough to be registered as a party however this coupled with their promises is not really enough to ensure a broad appeal. What they might be better off doing is to promote themselves in other areas and use outside the box methods. This could include fighting censorship, cutbacks to health and education (they would prove to be very popular in colleges), helping immigrant populations, fighting benefit cuts etc. More info on their website http://pirateparty.ie/

Was this the group than organised the anti-ACTA/SOPA demonstrations in Dublin ? They got hundreds of people out and seemed to have loads of energy.

I wouldn't write them off. They've got elected in Berlin and Ireland is a young country, demographically.

[fluffybiscuits]

I wouldnt say I would write them off but they need to widen their horizons in order to have more mass appeal . They are not failures at all but my post at the end gives what I think are the impetus as to what is needed to drive such a party forward. I might tweet them later and ask them for some input as the work that they do is brilliant but its just not far reaching enough IMO...

[C. Flower]

I wouldnt say I would write them off but they need to widen their horizons in order to have more mass appeal . They are not failures at all but my post at the end gives what I think are the impetus as to what is needed to drive such a party forward. I might tweet them later and ask them for some input as the work that they do is brilliant but its just not far reaching enough IMO...

The older left parties seem to be very conservative and regurgitate the same old same old. There was very little sign of life from them on internet freedom in Ireland. In other countries, internet freedom and censorship is seen as a big political issue.

[fluffybiscuits]

I think that as its an issue here albeit a minor one they should tie it in with a few other issues and make the party have a broad consensus. In fact as you suggested rightly, about the old left, they might be the ideal people to inject a little bit of life into the ULA and give them an edge that they need . A few hundred people at their rally translates into a few hundred votes and a position to influence the law makers and the industry. They could go it alone but what have they go to lose?

[Ah Well]

Be good if they engaged on this forum .. or are some of yiz closet pirate-eers already ;)

Extend a welcome by all means fluffy :)

[fluffybiscuits]

searching on twittert as we speak!!

[fluffybiscuits]

http://pirateparty.ie/node/47

[Ah Well]

http://pirateparty.ie/node/47

:)

[Thomas Burke]

Ok the aether just ate a big long spiel I wrote so I will try and be a little less verbose this time around and hope it posts fine.

Anyway to say we are only about copyright reform is completely wrong and of course it is sadly the view of many people. Yes we do want to reform the state of copyright as it exists today but we also want to fix the patent system which like the current copyright regime stifles innovation and hampers progress. It also costs lives when it comes to patents on medicines and other lifesaving items.

While the PP did start out only wanting internet freedom we grew quickly to recognise that theres more rights worth protecting than the right to share information. This is what Justus Römeth of PPDE said today on the PPI mailing list.

PPDE only got able to really become succesful because we developed a party programme, and elections programmes, that go beyond the typical core issues (freedom of information, limitations to copyright and patents), but we tried to analyze how such bad legislature concerning those topics was made to begin with and tried to develop something akin to an ideology from there. In that sense we in PPDE also have strong opinions on the legislative process in general, education, the environment; and are working on things concerning agriculture (admittedly coming from the patent controversy) or a different financial model for public transport.

They figured out that theres much more than the central goal of freedom to share.

Also one of the major issues we want to address is government transparency. When we have a situation where the 2 government partners wont even talk to each other then how can we hope to get any real information from the powers that be about the real state of our country.

Also without a whip system our members are free to do whatever their constituents want them to work on making them a true voice for the people rather than what we see today.

Oh and as for the anti-SOPA/ACTA stuff i think it was the Socialist Workers Party that organised it as far as im aware. Well one member of the party anyway.

This answer enough questions or do you have any more? Feel free to ask.

[C. Flower]

Ok the aether just ate a big long spiel I wrote so I will try and be a little less verbose this time around and hope it posts fine.

Anyway to say we are only about copyright reform is completely wrong and of course it is sadly the view of many people. Yes we do want to reform the state of copyright as it exists today but we also want to fix the patent system which like the current copyright regime stifles innovation and hampers progress. It also costs lives when it comes to patents on medicines and other lifesaving items.

While the PP did start out only wanting internet freedom we grew quickly to recognise that theres more rights worth protecting than the right to share information. This is what Justus Römeth of PPDE said today on the PPI mailing list.

PPDE only got able to really become succesful because we developed a party programme, and elections programmes, that go beyond the typical core issues (freedom of information, limitations to copyright and patents), but we tried to analyze how such bad legislature concerning those topics was made to begin with and tried to develop something akin to an ideology from there. In that sense we in PPDE also have strong opinions on the legislative process in general, education, the environment; and are working on things concerning agriculture (admittedly coming from the patent controversy) or a different financial model for public transport.

They figured out that theres much more than the central goal of freedom to share.

Also one of the major issues we want to address is government transparency. When we have a situation where the 2 government partners wont even talk to each other then how can we hope to get any real information from the powers that be about the real state of our country.

Also without a whip system our members are free to do whatever their constituents want them to work on making them a true voice for the people rather than what we see today.

Oh and as for the anti-SOPA/ACTA stuff i think it was the Socialist Workers Party that organised it as far as im aware. Well one member of the party anyway.

This answer enough questions or do you have any more? Feel free to ask.

Welcome, Thomas Burke. Thanks for the very clear and interesting explanation.


the central goal of freedom to share

I find that very interesting as it is coming from advanced technology but also progressive socially.

Would you say there is a touch of libertarianism in the ideology, in interesting contradiction with the overall communal approach re acting together and sharing stuff ??

Do yourselves as anywhere in particular on the left-right spectrum?

I'll set up a Pirate Party subforum, for any threads by or about the Pirate Party. You're welcome to post notices here.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'The left-right spectrum'. I like you Cactus and I admire your social spirit and respect you for the work you did reporting from Cairo but we'll never agree on this I suspect.

I'm beginning to hate the 'left-right' spectrum as much as Fianna Fail. Anyway, I'd welcome Thomas as well and find the PPDE very interesting and support both it and the various other non-aligned agents for change unrestricted by the 'left-right' spectrum of the Cold War Years.

Grr. The reason the established socialist parties in Ireland are confused by the SOPA/ACTA issues is, I suspect, because Lenin and Trotsky have no discernible views on the matter. Also, a milliionaire can be just as irritated by SOPA/ACTA as someone on the dole so it does not register much on the radar for the heritage socialist parties.

[Thomas Burke]

I absolutely loathe the idea of the left-right nonsense. Very few people can be classed as being pure left or pure right. Centrist parties in my view are just people unwilling to make a decision either way. People have many ideas on many issues and just because someone decides to come down on the "right" on one issue it doesnt mean he cant choose the "left" on another. In other words we are not left or right.

Thanks for the subforum. Nice to see people taking us seriously.

Con PPDE (the German Pirate Party is interesting and their views are serving them well with many regional election wins. Hopefully PPIE will be able to have similar success.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Magnificent- thanks Thomas for that! I have a political soulmate ... I'm hugely relieved that unlike Marine Le Pen some people with whom I can better identify as well as the non-aligned Occupy movement are round and about and aware of the rust on traditional political alignments.

I often think I am part of the most ignored section of the largest constituency- those who don't sip the Cold War Kool-Aid of the heritage left or heritage right but simply want fairer and more transparent social organisation.

Exciting times and I'm loving the emergence of the Pirate Party and following their successes with great interest and even more so their refusal to be pigeonholed by the nabobs of the politics that were...

[fluffybiscuits]

Ok the aether just ate a big long spiel I wrote so I will try and be a little less verbose this time around and hope it posts fine.

Anyway to say we are only about copyright reform is completely wrong and of course it is sadly the view of many people. Yes we do want to reform the state of copyright as it exists today but we also want to fix the patent system which like the current copyright regime stifles innovation and hampers progress. It also costs lives when it comes to patents on medicines and other lifesaving items.

While the PP did start out only wanting internet freedom we grew quickly to recognise that theres more rights worth protecting than the right to share information. This is what Justus Römeth of PPDE said today on the PPI mailing list.

PPDE only got able to really become succesful because we developed a party programme, and elections programmes, that go beyond the typical core issues (freedom of information, limitations to copyright and patents), but we tried to analyze how such bad legislature concerning those topics was made to begin with and tried to develop something akin to an ideology from there. In that sense we in PPDE also have strong opinions on the legislative process in general, education, the environment; and are working on things concerning agriculture (admittedly coming from the patent controversy) or a different financial model for public transport.

They figured out that theres much more than the central goal of freedom to share.

Also one of the major issues we want to address is government transparency. When we have a situation where the 2 government partners wont even talk to each other then how can we hope to get any real information from the powers that be about the real state of our country.

Also without a whip system our members are free to do whatever their constituents want them to work on making them a true voice for the people rather than what we see today.

Oh and as for the anti-SOPA/ACTA stuff i think it was the Socialist Workers Party that organised it as far as im aware. Well one member of the party anyway.

This answer enough questions or do you have any more? Feel free to ask.

Thomas welcome to the forum and can I just say fair play to coming to answer the post I put, its appreciated. I wasnt aware that the SWP organised the march for the anti SOPA measures thanks for clearing that up! I read what you wrote and Im interested, especially in the areas surrounding patents which is something I have not seen any other party approach in this government or past governments. Giving your members the freedom to act as an individual as well as a party will bring a lot of benefits, leaves them free to work for the people is spot on. The only thing I do wonder though is that as you mention there is no left ;/ right slant , do you think that a stance you take on certain issues may give people an impression of the party having a particular political leaning? Just to ask do the party have anything on gay rights/abortion/immigrant rights etc?

Apologies if Im a pain in the hole but Im looking for an alternative in this day and age, Im currently a ULA supporter but am open minded :)

[Thomas Burke]

Well Im only going by what iwas told regarding the anti-SOPA/ACTA thing so I may be wrong so dont hold me to it if it turns out that some other group had a hand in it.

Everyone will view the party in whatever way allows them to make sense of it. Some people will view us as visionaries and some will view us as jokes. If we take a stance that would traditionally be viewed as left by the majority will most likely have us labeled as left even if we then make a decision that can be seen as traditionally right. After a while though I do believe that people will start to understand that such concepts are far too limiting and will understand that we cant be pigeonholed in either.

As i said outside of the core issues there will be no specific party policy. Well unless of course we all decide that there should be a specific stance on something. These are all issues that can and will be discussed once we start to get a few members.

Right now all I can give you are my own personal views.

Homosexuality has been part of human life for millennia. Though female homosexuality hasnt had too much publicity in the history books it still existed. If something like this has been a part of life for as long as it has been than how can we discriminate based off of it. A homosexual person should be extended the same rights as the rest of us "normal" folk. That includes the right to marry and donate blood.

I am only in favour of limited cases where abortion is ok. Allow me to clarify. If bringing a child to term will cost the mother, child or both their lives then the life of the mother takes precedence and the pregnancy should be terminated. If a woman is raped and as a result becomes pregnant then she should not be forced to have the child. If she does not want it as it may lead to more severe mental anguish than the rape itself. The abortion itself may very well cause such issues as well but in such cases it seems to me at least to be a lesser risk. If a rape victim did take their child to term it could potentially be dangerous for the child if the parent suffers such issues so in that case I would say close monitoring of the situation by a social welfare officer might be in order. Aside from those cases and cases like them it is the responsibility in my mind of the people involved to take the child to term and care for it.

As for immigrants rights well thats a tricky one. I havent given every aspect of it enough thought to comment on it too much. I do think that anyone should be free to enter a country and at least attempt to make a living. As long as they are honest in their actions in regard to trying to get by then I dont see any reason to treat them differently. I do think we need to reevaluate our social welfare system in terms of dealing with EU and non-EU immigrants. I have heard from people working in social welfare numerous stories of instances where they are being taught about our social welfare system by non-EU immigrants.

Not a very in-depth description of my views on every single issue pertaining to each area you mentioned but hope its at least a little informative.

Some of the party members may disagree with what Ive said. In fact many might. Its incredibly hard to say for sure but then again all of us are free to have our opinions. As I said already none of that should be taken as official party policy

[Count Bobulescu]

Aye me hearties, mark your calendar’s and practice yer lip, September 19, 2012 is the 10th annual international Talk Like A Pirate Day.
Apologies Thomas, couldn’t resist. You should be able to get some favorable publicity out of it though, and I do genuinely want to learn more about the PP. Hopefully it will be interesting to watch as it evolves.

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html

[fluffybiscuits]

Well Im only going by what iwas told regarding the anti-SOPA/ACTA thing so I may be wrong so dont hold me to it if it turns out that some other group had a hand in it.

Everyone will view the party in whatever way allows them to make sense of it. Some people will view us as visionaries and some will view us as jokes. If we take a stance that would traditionally be viewed as left by the majority will most likely have us labeled as left even if we then make a decision that can be seen as traditionally right. After a while though I do believe that people will start to understand that such concepts are far too limiting and will understand that we cant be pigeonholed in either.

As i said outside of the core issues there will be no specific party policy. Well unless of course we all decide that there should be a specific stance on something. These are all issues that can and will be discussed once we start to get a few members.

Right now all I can give you are my own personal views.

Homosexuality has been part of human life for millennia. Though female homosexuality hasnt had too much publicity in the history books it still existed. If something like this has been a part of life for as long as it has been than how can we discriminate based off of it. A homosexual person should be extended the same rights as the rest of us "normal" folk. That includes the right to marry and donate blood.

I am only in favour of limited cases where abortion is ok. Allow me to clarify. If bringing a child to term will cost the mother, child or both their lives then the life of the mother takes precedence and the pregnancy should be terminated. If a woman is raped and as a result becomes pregnant then she should not be forced to have the child. If she does not want it as it may lead to more severe mental anguish than the rape itself. The abortion itself may very well cause such issues as well but in such cases it seems to me at least to be a lesser risk. If a rape victim did take their child to term it could potentially be dangerous for the child if the parent suffers such issues so in that case I would say close monitoring of the situation by a social welfare officer might be in order. Aside from those cases and cases like them it is the responsibility in my mind of the people involved to take the child to term and care for it.

As for immigrants rights well thats a tricky one. I havent given every aspect of it enough thought to comment on it too much. I do think that anyone should be free to enter a country and at least attempt to make a living. As long as they are honest in their actions in regard to trying to get by then I dont see any reason to treat them differently. I do think we need to reevaluate our social welfare system in terms of dealing with EU and non-EU immigrants. I have heard from people working in social welfare numerous stories of instances where they are being taught about our social welfare system by non-EU immigrants.

Not a very in-depth description of my views on every single issue pertaining to each area you mentioned but hope its at least a little informative.

Some of the party members may disagree with what Ive said. In fact many might. Its incredibly hard to say for sure but then again all of us are free to have our opinions. As I said already none of that should be taken as official party policy


Hi Thomas

Most of your personal opinions are in line with mine (bar immigration, rip open borders etc!) . Keep us abreast at how the party are doing :)

[C. Flower]

Rick Falkvinge is in town.

Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask about the Pirate Party, or else viewpoints on the prospects for the Party in Ireland ?

[fluffybiscuits]

Rick Falkvinge is in town.

Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask about the Pirate Party, or else viewpoints on the prospects for the Party in Ireland ?

Yes most definitely!

Why has there been nothing in the limelight about them recently?

How did they fade into obscurity?

Does he believe he can provide an alternative to the current status quo?

Website wont load for me for their party, is it updated???

[C. Flower]

Yes most definitely!

Why has there been nothing in the limelight about them recently?

How did they fade into obscurity?

Does he believe he can provide an alternative to the current status quo?

Website wont load for me for their party, is it updated???

Well, is that the case ?

They have been astoundingly successful in a number of elections.

Falkvinge is a nom de guerre - means Falconwing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickard_Falkvinge

[fluffybiscuits]

Sorry I should clarify Im talking about the Irish Pirate Party...:o

[fluffybiscuits]

Well, is that the case ?

They have been astoundingly successful in a number of elections.

Falkvinge is a nom de guerre - means Falconwing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickard_Falkvinge

Actually he is seen as unique amongst politicians according to Wikipedia

He seems very honest..



Peter Santesson, Ph.D. in Political Sciences, has analyzed Falkvinge's leadership style and found it unique in Swedish politics. Falkvinge is never late to admit a mistake, and openly displays his weaknesses, acting to diminish his own authority. Among other things, Santesson refers to the episode where Falkvinge said he was flat broke and asked for donations, something that no other politician has attempted and much less succeeded with. Santesson argues that this personality, where Falkvinge takes responsibility for mistakes and admits them immediately without reservation, makes Falkvinge appear even more charismatic. Santesson compares it to techniques used in pick-up artistry.[31]