The Rise of the Far Right in Europe - Wolves in Sheeps clothing?

[fluffybiscuits]

With the recent surge seen in the far right in Europe, are they promising people something they can deliver on or are they going to fall flat? In the recent French elections, Marie Le Pen promised to look at the rights of workers and played the left wing card hoping to appeal to those whom might have otherwise voted for the left. Golden Dawn came to power in Greece with the promise to deal with the immigration issues that they have made out to be a bigger deal than it is . Golden Dawn saw their figures jump from .29% support to 6.7% or thereabouts on the back of playing the anti immigration card, they vowed to rid "Athens of the stench" of what is immigrants. In Finland the True Finns are surfing in on a tide of anti European sentiment and anti immgration policies. Couple all of this with well known antics of such parties in Ireland and the BNP in the UK and other far right parties in Europe and we may be setting ourselves up for a dangerous rift in society. Already some of these parties are well known to have violent links and links to neo nazism. Are we allowing these wolves to continually dress in sheeps clothing?

Links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Finns

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/06/far-right-threat-extremism

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/9250885/Greek-immigrants-urge-parties-to-isolate-far-Right-Golden-Dawn.html

[morticia]

the truly terrifying thing about this is that the extreme parties are likely to continue gaining ground until either the economy improves (unlikely given ECB policy and oil prices), or one of them gains power (the only thing that seems to limit political popularity these days is actually getting into government).

When power gets into the hands of ye jackbooted thugs, there is no guarantee they'll let it slip from their grasp without a fight (Hitler was democratically elected in 1933, remember?).

Gulp.

[fluffybiscuits]

the truly terrifying thing about this is that the extreme parties are likely to continue gaining ground until either the economy improves (unlikely given ECB policy and oil prices), or one of them gains power (the only thing that seems to limit political popularity these days is actually getting into government).

When power gets into the hands of ye jackbooted thugs, there is no guarantee they'll let it slip from their grasp without a fight (Hitler was democratically elected in 1933, remember?).

Gulp.

Give them an inch and they will take a mile and lay everything to waste. A swing to the extreme right would tend to be among those whom are usually lacking any sort of basic common sense, moral compass and a self centred egotistical outlook with narcissistic tendencies. The jackboot thugs tend to be the followers of said parties and tend to not have had any sort of education as any sort of education at a basic level would lead to even an understanding that mindless vigilantism gets them no where.

[jmcc]

The funny thing is that people are too focused on the jackbooted thugs element as being the real threat. It is easy for the Left to demonise the Far Right as such but the real threat would be a moderation of the thuggish element and a normalisation of politics to the extent that the Far Right would be considered as ordinary political parties by the people (as opposed to the Left). So while the Left is looking the other way, the Far Right moves into positions of power - it is the old frog boiling thing again. You'd almost expect that people would have learned how power is seized by now.

Regards...jmcc

[C. Flower]

The funny thing is that people are too focused on the jackbooted thugs element as being the real threat. It is easy for the Left to demonise the Far Right as such but the real threat would be a moderation of the thuggish element and a normalisation of politics to the extent that the Far Right would be considered as ordinary political parties by the people (as opposed to the Left). So while the Left is looking the other way, the Far Right moves into positions of power - it is the old frog boiling thing again. You'd almost expect that people would have learned how power is seized by now.

Regards...jmcc

It works both ways. Certainly in the UK, year on year, the serge-clad legs of politicians seem to be slipping progressively into more jackbootish kind of coverings.

A couple of hundred years of enlargement of democratic rights of citizens are being pushed back, step by step.

There are now some pretty horrendous people elected across Europe, who have no regard for basic human rights.

That doesn't mean to say that the extra-parliamentary right is not a danger. It's when the interests of these people coincide with the perceived need by the traditional right to protect private property that a fascist regime can emerge.

[C. Flower]

Please note the return of Libertas this week in Ireland - whose previous political presence as a "pan european party" included groups like the far right LAOS in Greece, League of Polish Families, the True Finns, and racist ATTAC in Bulgaria.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The funny thing is that people are too focused on the jackbooted thugs element as being the real threat. It is easy for the Left to demonise the Far Right as such but the real threat would be a moderation of the thuggish element and a normalisation of politics to the extent that the Far Right would be considered as ordinary political parties by the people (as opposed to the Left). So while the Left is looking the other way, the Far Right moves into positions of power - it is the old frog boiling thing again. You'd almost expect that people would have learned how power is seized by now.

Regards...jmcc

Agree very much with this- where the Far Right rises in a democracy it is in the main because of a failure firstly at the Centre and most definitely on the old pre-decimal left who should have a duty to engage and keep the political swingometer in moderate territory.

Every time there is a perceived rise in support for Far Right parties it is invariably after the Centre of politics has attempted to ignore issues that concern the electorate, thereby driving the engine of extremism to both the left and the right.

One needn't worry too much about the extremist left as they invariably trundle happily off into the usual linguistic minefield and spend far too much time arguing theory with lesbians (with apologies to any lesbians reading this- hoping you'll laugh here) to be in any way effective.

On this occasion I am not worried about right resurgence- I would be if there was any sign of alliance between Corporate boardrooms and the right of Marine Le Pen for example but as Ms Pen has been astute enough to spot the attack on the nation state by Corporation she is attacking the corporate world and using the nation as an engine. This suits me very well. I've been saying it is Corporation against Nation for quite some time now and while the Nation construct brings with it accountabilities the Corporation brings almost none beyond PR and shareprice and they can both be manipulated too easily.

Vive la Nation ... Vive la Republique, say I.

[Spectabilis]

Whoever does Ganleys PR manages to get him an orchestrated period of exposure - todays SBP, Marian Finucane on RTÉ, First item on RTÉs news headlines, and yes, I agree, wait to see him on VB, and hear him on Newstalk, or PK Today.

And don't forget the 'No' leaflet that came through the letterbox on Friday from the EDF group in the European Parliament. It had a decidedly Libertassian feel and look.

ACHTUNG! it says in Black on Orange . 'Do not become slaves to Debt. '

'Fiscal Union' it says on the front .'The Treaty that condemns you to perpetual Debt' and a photo of Nigel Farage, MEP

The Europe for Freedom and Democracy group in the European Parliament has no members from Ireland
http://www.efdgroup.eu/ (http://www.efdgroup.eu/)[/

[Ephilant]

President Karolos Papoulias has angered all (but one) political leaders and millions of Greek citizens by holding seperate talks with Nikos Michaliolakos, leader of Chrysi Avgi on the formation of a "unity government".
If he needed any indication of the unity on this matter, ALL leaders, without exception, not only refused to sit at the same table with this thug, but warned they would leave if he was allowed into the same room. The Greek people are highly offended that this thug was asked to the palace by none other than the President himself.

It is this kind of mistakes that these individuals exploit to give themselves legitimacy. These are the same thugs who, 3 days ago, put the SKAI reporter Costantinos Bogdanos in hospital after the station refused to broadcast a statement issued by head thug Michaliolakos. What was Papoulias thinking?

[C. Flower]

President Karolos Papoulias has angered all (but one) political leaders and millions of Greek citizens by holding seperate talks with Nikos Michaliolakos, leader of Chrysi Avgi on the formation of a "unity government".
If he needed any indication of the unity on this matter, ALL leaders, without exception, not only refused to sit at the same table with this thug, but warned they would leave if he was allowed into the same room. The Greek people are highly offended that this thug was asked to the palace by none other than the President himself.

It is this kind of mistakes that these individuals exploit to give themselves legitimacy. These are the same thugs who, 3 days ago, put the SKAI reporter Costantinos Bogdanos in hospital after the station refused to broadcast a statement issued by head thug Michaliolakos. What was Papoulias thinking?

Just listening to two Irish men who are in Athens, one reporter, one a member of an orchestra, talking about "Dawn."

Activities mentioned include firebombing a school four times, because there were immigrant children in it, demanding that the border with Turkey should be mined, and, under the guise of "law and order" "clearing" immigrants from different areas.

But I've also read that the police are friendly enough with "Dawn."

It is very good to know that most Greeks are uncompromisingly against them, but I'm not surprised that some members of the establishment are cosy with them.

It's worth remembering that Hitler got into power "by invitation" from right wing democrats.

[fluffybiscuits]

Been reading on some of the articles that you mentioned about the police collusion Cass

http://garizo.blogspot.com/2008/12/neo-fascists-side-by-side-with-police.html

http://www.revleft.com/vb/evidence-poilice-fascist-t97138/index.html?

A lot of food for thought there. People being charged with protecting the public cause problems for the people they protect. Another wolf in sheeps clothing...

[Spectabilis]

One needn't worry too much about the extremist left as they invariably trundle happily off into the usual linguistic minefield and spend far too much time arguing theory with lesbians (with apologies to any lesbians reading this- hoping you'll laugh here) to be in any way effective.

.

Lesbians everywhere are rolling on the floor laughing Cap'n . Hilarious you are:D:rolleyes:

[Slim Buddha]

The funny thing is that people are too focused on the jackbooted thugs element as being the real threat. It is easy for the Left to demonise the Far Right as such but the real threat would be a moderation of the thuggish element and a normalisation of politics to the extent that the Far Right would be considered as ordinary political parties by the people (as opposed to the Left). So while the Left is looking the other way, the Far Right moves into positions of power - it is the old frog boiling thing again. You'd almost expect that people would have learned how power is seized by now.

Regards...jmcc

Indeed. The late Joerg Haider in Austria managed to make that sort of politics electorally successful to the point that his Freedom Party formed part of a coalition government.

[C. Flower]

Agree very much with this- where the Far Right rises in a democracy it is in the main because of a failure firstly at the Centre and most definitely on the old pre-decimal left who should have a duty to engage and keep the political swingometer in moderate territory.

Every time there is a perceived rise in support for Far Right parties it is invariably after the Centre of politics has attempted to ignore issues that concern the electorate, thereby driving the engine of extremism to both the left and the right.

One needn't worry too much about the extremist left as they invariably trundle happily off into the usual linguistic minefield and spend far too much time arguing theory with lesbians (with apologies to any lesbians reading this- hoping you'll laugh here) to be in any way effective.

On this occasion I am not worried about right resurgence- I would be if there was any sign of alliance between Corporate boardrooms and the right of Marine Le Pen for example but as Ms Pen has been astute enough to spot the attack on the nation state by Corporation she is attacking the corporate world and using the nation as an engine. This suits me very well. I've been saying it is Corporation against Nation for quite some time now and while the Nation construct brings with it accountabilities the Corporation brings almost none beyond PR and shareprice and they can both be manipulated too easily.

Vive la Nation ... Vive la Republique, say I.

What have lesbians got to do this this ?

[joekilgobinet]

Good article in Saturday's Indo

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-nazis-are-back-in-athens-but-this-time-theyre-local-3105337.html

[Richardbouvet]

I see that Melenchon has decided to run directly against Marine Le Pen in the same constituency, which is near Calais. He is doing it in order to crystallise the difference between their 2 approaches to Europe's problems. Fair play to him.

Speaking of LAOS, what happened to them? Not a word about them since the last elections.

I remain to be convinced that Ganley is comparable to the NF or Golden dawn. He may have some dodgy fellow travellers with him, but he himself has not touched immigration or race. Can we have some fairness here please?

[People Korps]

I see that Melenchon has decided to run directly against Marine Le Pen in the same constituency, which is near Calais. He is doing it in order to crystallise the difference between their 2 approaches to Europe's problems. Fair play to him.

Speaking of LAOS, what happened to them? Not a word about them since the last elections.

I remain to be convinced that Ganley is comparable to the NF or Golden dawn. He may have some dodgy fellow travellers with him, but he himself has not touched immigration or race. Can we have some fairness here please?

posted that elsewhere two Friday a great pr stroke it will be national and global news and help the Front G however I observed Melenchon on TV accusing Le Petit Journal journalist a left( leaning Jon Stuart style show) as being NF and think he is a nutjob since then

[fluffybiscuits]

I see that Melenchon has decided to run directly against Marine Le Pen in the same constituency, which is near Calais. He is doing it in order to crystallise the difference between their 2 approaches to Europe's problems. Fair play to him.

Speaking of LAOS, what happened to them? Not a word about them since the last elections.

I remain to be convinced that Ganley is comparable to the NF or Golden dawn. He may have some dodgy fellow travellers with him, but he himself has not touched immigration or race. Can we have some fairness here please?

LAOS got 2.9% of the vote in the recent elections

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_legislative_election,_2012

Im not sure I believe Ganley myself is comparable in anyway to the NF or the Golden Dawn but his whole anti Lisbon Treaty stance and what I read about him make me dislike him as a politician. Cant vouch for the bloke as a person but as a politician Im not a fan of him.

[Ephilant]

Here is some very interesting reading on the rise of the far right:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SBn3R4IRyeI/T58QS38X3CI/AAAAAAAAAJI/axSPxJmkVPE/s320/Screen+Shot+2012-04-30+at+23.20.26.jpg

http://cms.horus.be/files/99935/MediaArchive/publications/20060_Publication_Far_right_EN_LR.pdf

[fluffybiscuits]

Here is some very interesting reading on the rise of the far right:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SBn3R4IRyeI/T58QS38X3CI/AAAAAAAAAJI/axSPxJmkVPE/s320/Screen+Shot+2012-04-30+at+23.20.26.jpg

http://cms.horus.be/files/99935/MediaArchive/publications/20060_Publication_Far_right_EN_LR.pdf

Thanks for that link.

I skipped through to the part to where it says far right parties are successful. Some of the reasons are

-disillusion with main stream parties
-Complex party systems with excellent communications
-Exploiting niches in various areas of the political spectrum (immigration being one stick they use to beat others)
-lack of show of power (leadership etc) by the left.


I glanced over the document but it goes on about the Islamaphobia in excellent detail . Worth a read :)

[Ephilant]

http://sup.kathimerini.gr/kath/engs/img/NEWS/2012/05/michaloliakos.jpg

In case anybody had any doubts where this guy belongs, Nikos Michaloliakos, in an interview on Mega television, stated unashamedly that "There were no ovens -- it's a lie. I believe it's a lie. There were no gas chambers either", He was of course talking about the holocaust, death camps etc. The interviewer did the right thing, let him rant on, and then tackled him point by point over his ridiculous and highly offensive statements, pointing out that he had just smeared the memory of hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Greek Jews who were put to death by the Nazis. The next day, in another pre election poll, Chrysi Avgi saw its support dwindle further and it is now almost certain that they will not reach the 3% treshold at the next round. And with Kammenos still trying to get both his feet out of his big mouth, it is indeed a brighter prospect with these guys talking themselves out of existence.

[eamo]

http://sup.kathimerini.gr/kath/engs/img/NEWS/2012/05/michaloliakos.jpg

In case anybody had any doubts where this guy belongs, Nikos Michaloliakos, in an interview on Mega television, stated unashamedly that "There were no ovens -- it's a lie. I believe it's a lie. There were no gas chambers either", He was of course talking about the holocaust, death camps etc. The interviewer did the right thing, let him rant on, and then tackled him point by point over his ridiculous and highly offensive statements, pointing out that he had just smeared the memory of hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Greek Jews who were put to death by the Nazis. The next day, in another pre election poll, Chrysi Avgi saw its support dwindle further and it is now almost certain that they will not reach the 3% treshold at the next round. And with Kammenos still trying to get both his feet out of his big mouth, it is indeed a brighter prospect with these guys talking themselves out of existence.

It is one of the strengths and also one of the weaknesses of the hard right that they don't think before they shout their mouths off ( well I suppose they would not be hard right if they did think).They can attract a certain percentage but there is a very definite ceiling to the number they can attract. Most people still know enough and are smart enough to see through them. That is another good reason to defend our education system.
In this country we have Michael O'Leary who is making a clown out of himself (no offence meant to professional clowns). He has a certain following who think he is great and should be made Dictator, but to most he is becoming a ridiculous figure. The poetic justice is that his vanity, and the fact that he has surrounded himself with people who mirror his own ignorance, means he cannot see his displays of juvenile, narcissistic, attention seeking folly for what they are. Even the interviewers who have the misfortune to interviev him are starting to take the piss, not only out of him but also out of his toadys, as heard on just about every Irish radio station today.
Woody Guthrie always had a sign on his guitar saying; "this machine kills fascists" well the slogan for our time should be "a broad education stops fascism".
http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w324/carol_dan/woody-guthrie.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff253/monseigneur_2007/woody_guthrie_nywts1.jpg

[Ephilant]

Thanks for reminding me. I LOVE Guthrie. Looking for his stuff right now, this is going to be an anti-fascist night!

[Hapax]

It is one of the strengths and also one of the weaknesses of the hard right that they don't think before they shout their mouths off ( well I suppose they would not be hard right if they did think).They can attract a certain percentage but there is a very definite ceiling to the number they can attract. Most people still know enough and are smart enough to see through them. That is another good reason to defend our education system.
In this country we have Michael O'Leary who is making a clown out of himself (no offence meant to professional clowns). He has a certain following who think he is great and should be made Dictator, but to most he is becoming a ridiculous figure. The poetic justice is that his vanity, and the fact that he has surrounded himself with people who mirror his own ignorance, means he cannot see his displays of juvenile, narcissistic, attention seeking folly for what they are. Even the interviewers who have the misfortune to interviev him are starting to take the piss, not only out of him but also out of his toadys, as heard on just about every Irish radio station today.
Woody Guthrie always had a sign on his guitar saying; "this machine kills fascists" well the slogan for our time should be "a broad education stops fascism".
http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w324/carol_dan/woody-guthrie.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff253/monseigneur_2007/woody_guthrie_nywts1.jpg

. . . . .
I hate ev'rybody don't think like me
And I'd rather see you dead than I'd ever see you free
Rather see you starved to death than see you at work
And I'm readin' all the books I can to learn how to hurt
Daily misery, spread diseases, keep you without no vote
Keep you without no union
. . . . .

Guthrie: Mean-talkin' Blues

[Spectabilis]

http://sup.kathimerini.gr/kath/engs/img/NEWS/2012/05/michaloliakos.jpg

In case anybody had any doubts where this guy belongs, Nikos Michaloliakos, in an interview on Mega television, stated unashamedly that "There were no ovens -- it's a lie. I believe it's a lie. There were no gas chambers either", He was of course talking about the holocaust, death camps etc. The interviewer did the right thing, let him rant on, and then tackled him point by point over his ridiculous and highly offensive statements, pointing out that he had just smeared the memory of hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Greek Jews who were put to death by the Nazis. The next day, in another pre election poll, Chrysi Avgi saw its support dwindle further and it is now almost certain that they will not reach the 3% treshold at the next round. And with Kammenos still trying to get both his feet out of his big mouth, it is indeed a brighter prospect with these guys talking themselves out of existence.

Thanks for that Ephilant. What a relief.
One expects the worst creatures to come out of the woodwork in the current Greek crisis.

[Kev Bar]

Thanks for that Ephilant. What a relief.
One expects the worst creatures to come out of the woodwork in the current Greek crisis.

One would think the Germans might be somewhat aware of the abhorrent creatures which destitution and humiliation can give birth to.

[Ephilant]

Coming to think of it, isn't "holocast denying" a crime in Europe, or is it only in certain countries?

[C. Flower]

Guthrie was right that fascism hates us to have a union. When capitalist economies are in crisis, driving down wages and driving up the working day is their one sure way of building up capital again. And to drive up the rate of profit, shutting factories down to cut production. Unions stand between them and those objectives.

Fascism pulls together physical forces to smash up unions, and does its best to divide the population along sectarian or racist lines.

The only political element in the Libertas Memorandum and Articles was this clause


The memorandum documents for both of the new companies state that they are entitled to raise funds, carry on business, purchase property,
accumulate capital, borrow and other activities, in pursuit of their
principal objectives. The companies are allowed pay interest at
a rate not exceeding 5 per cent on loans received from directors or
other members of the companies. They are also empowered to
"promote freedom of contact" and contribute funds to any body that
resists interference in businesses by "any strike movement or
organisation". Irish Times

[Dr. FIVE]

To help Irish Times readers in identifying their guest op-ed today, a brief Storify on Morten Messerschmidt and co - Gavan Titley

http://storify.com/GavanTitley/the-irish-times-publishes-morten-messerschmidt#publicize

[ZeroWedge]

And to drive up the rate of profit, shutting factories down to cut production. Unions stand between them and those objectives.That is false. Public sector unions support the shutting down of competition to increase profits for incumbents.

Thats what unions in the Telecom Eireann, ESB, Aerlingus did. They shut down competing businesses so they could enjoy monopoly profits.

Public sector unions are inherently fascist, in that they support state sponsored monopolies.

[Dr. FIVE]

What about Private sector Unions?

[ZeroWedge]

What about Private sector Unions?Private sector unions are part of the free market mechanism called "price discovery".

In the same way that companies merge to achieve economies of scale or "synergies", workers can combine to engage in collective bargaining, and achieve a higher price for their labour.

[fluffybiscuits]

That is false. Public sector unions support the shutting down of competition to increase profits for incumbents.

Thats what unions in the Telecom Eireann, ESB, Aerlingus did. They shut down competing businesses so they could enjoy monopoly profits.

Public sector unions are inherently fascist, in that they support state sponsored monopolies.

Wrong wrong and wrog again. Unions are formed in the public sector to ensure the best deals for all the workers in the public sector whom would otherwise be exploited for gain by the big men at the top. The incumbents whom are profiting are the upper class while the lower class workers form unions to defend their positions. Back in the 80's all unions worked in tandem to ensure that everyone in public and private got the best rates, if one went on strike , they all went on strike. This division between public and private sector is the cause of it and its really only fools who fall for the image that is painted of unions. :)