Government ministers are NOT exempt from paying the Household Charge

[PaddyJoe]

The answer to the Dail question to Peter Matthews below is slightly ambiguous. It doesn't mean that a Minister's own personla properties are exempt from the household charge.
Apologies. I posted first that Ministers are exempt from the charge. My bad:o


· Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive,http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

[C. Flower]

Speechless:mad:



http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,

· Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive,

· Voluntary and co-operative housing,

· Residential property subject to commercial rates and wholly used as a dwelling,

· Residential property owned by certain charities or discretionary trusts, and

· Residential property which an owner has vacated due to long-term mental or physical infirmity (e.g. elderly person that has moved into a nursing home).
The waivers which apply concern -


· Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement from the Department of Social Protection, and

· Owners of houses in certain unfinished housing estates.
There are no exemptions or waivers in the legislation in respect of owners of residential property who are in receipt of social welfare payments other than that concerning mortgage interest supplement as set out above.

Beyond belief. I suppose we should be surprised that Heads of Government Departments aren't exempt :(

[DCon]

Speechless:mad:


http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

I assume this is ALL residential property and not just the main residence?

So if Enda has 50 buy to let houses, no Household charges will apply

[PaddyJoe]

I assume this is ALL residential property and not just the main residence?

So if Enda has 50 buy to let houses, no Household charges will apply
What about Alan?

Mr Shatter's property empire is the largest of any cabinet member, with only Health Minister James Reilly (http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/James_Reilly_%28politician%29) coming close.
He has a share in 15 properties in total, which are located in Dublin, London and Florida. They include apartments, two-storey red-brick houses, a duplex and an "ultra-luxury holiday villa" in Florida.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shatter-loses-500000-as-us-property-portfolio-takes-a-dive-2929340.html

[Dr. FIVE]

They really are thick if this is true

[Sam Lord]

It refers to property owned by the relevant Minister's Department no doubt.

[Baron von Biffo]

Speechless:mad:


http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

The term 'a minister of the government' refers to The Ministers and Secretaries Act (1924) which makes each head of a government (minister) a 'corporation sole'.

This legal mechanism is necessary to ensure that, for example, the office of minister can be sued rather than the office holder.

[ang]

A building vested in a Minister of the Government - Not own residence - pg 5 - http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

[PaddyJoe]

Ok, it looks like the answer to the Dail question was badly phrased, To be fair this lot aren't stupid enough to try to sneak in an exemption for themselves.
On a related question II wonder if all the government TDs have registered at this stage?

[DCon]

Ok, it looks like the answer to the Dail question was badly phrased, To be fair this lot aren't stupid enough to try to sneak in an exemption for themselves.
On a related question II wonder if all the government TDs have registered at this stage?

I would imagine most of them will claim their house is their office and add the 100 quid to the old expenses pile

[TotalMayhem]

Lovely, fµcking lovely!

[PaddyJoe]

Lovely, fµcking lovely!
In fact it looks like I got this wrong. See up the thread:o

[disability student]

The answer to the Dail question to Peter Matthews below is slightly ambiguous. It doesn't mean that a Minister's own personla properties are exempt from the household charge.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

PJ, you need to change the title of the OP thread from not to exempt to hit it home for the rest of us.:eek:

[C. Flower]

Ok, it looks like the answer to the Dail question was badly phrased, To be fair this lot aren't stupid enough to try to sneak in an exemption for themselves.
On a related question II wonder if all the government TDs have registered at this stage?

The fact that we would believe this possible perhaps goes back to the occasion (Christmas Eve, year before last ?) when pension/pay cuts for civil servants were reversed for the highest paid. Ministerial salaries being bench-marked to same.

After that, anything appeared possible.

[morticia]

The way that's phrased is very confusing in fairness....commiserations, PJ

[TotalMayhem]

I wonder if HashVinB is aware of this, he'd be annihaliting this shower of c***s. :D

[lying eyes]

Disgraceful-our ministers have to pay for something? What is happening in this Country?

[disability student]

Their unvouched + vouched expenses would cover this charge as they are still not treated as Benefit in Kind (BIK) as if it would apply to ordinary folks.

Why two different standards apply in this situation??

[Baron von Biffo]

Their unvouched + vouched expenses would cover this charge as they are still not treated as Benefit in Kind (BIK) as if it would apply to ordinary folks.

Why two different standards apply in this situation??

Feck facts, rants are so much more fun.

[TotalMayhem]

Feck facts, rants are so much more fun.

I think you can bury your hopes re prosecuting white collar criminals. Ain't gonna happen while the worst crooks make the laws, Baron.

[disability student]

Feck facts, rants are so much more fun.

Indeed:D

[Baron von Biffo]

I think you can bury your hopes re prosecuting white collar criminals. Ain't gonna happen while the worst crooks are the law makers, Baron.

Perhaps. It has been pointed out though, and PJ even altered the thread title, that ministers will have to pay the charge on their personal property.

It has also been explained that expenses aren't treated as BIK for anyone so there's no double standard.

There's enough to get would up about these days without pulling stuff out of our arses.

[disability student]

[QUOTE=Baron von Biffo;235339]Perhaps. It has been pointed out though, and PJ even altered the thread title, that ministers will have to pay the charge on their personal property.

It has also been explained that expenses aren't treated as BIK for anyone so there's no double standard.


These politicans whose vouched or unvouched expenses don't get taxed or added back to their income as the revenue commissionsers does to us re BIK.


Hence double standard- one law for them and one law for us BVB.

Btw, Shatter's home have been broken into.:eek:

[Baron von Biffo]

These politicans whose vouched or unvouched expenses don't get taxed or added back to their income as the revenue commissionsers does to us re BIK.


Hence double standard- one law for them and one law for us BVB.

Btw, Shatter's home have been broken into.:eek:

We've been here before.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?p=220956

No BIK and no double standard.

[DCon]

Kathleen Lynch on Newstalk just said she has paid the charge but "it wasn't easy".

Nothing worse than a politician playing the poor mouth

[Apjp]

Perhaps. It has been pointed out though, and PJ even altered the thread title, that ministers will have to pay the charge on their personal property.

It has also been explained that expenses aren't treated as BIK for anyone so there's no double standard.

There's enough to get would up about these days without pulling stuff out of our arses.

That sounds apologist to me. There are very good questions on this thread as to property portfolios of various ministers and whether they will pay the various household charges, and indeed other charges that the rest of the country is being forced to pay.

[concernedparent]

Well I'm not paying it as it's the thin end of the wedge; an unjust and unfair tax to pay for gross mismanagement of the economy and the banking system.

I told my son he could visit me in Mountjoy but he said he wouldn't have to as he would be in there as well. As he's not paying it either.:mad:

[Kid Ryder]

Kathleen Lynch on Newstalk just said she has paid the charge but "it wasn't easy".

Nothing worse than a politician playing the poor mouth

Kathleen would put toll booths on the bridges on the backs of the euro notes if she was given half a chance.:rolleyes:

[DCon]

Seems they are exempt from rates on their local PR office..


In the Sunday Independent today (I know, I know…) theres a most interesting piece. It notes that the offices of TDs are exempt from local authority rates while charity shops are not. This prompted me to think about the nature of politics. The exemption from rates applies not to their offices in the Oireachtas, but to the politician shops, for that is what they are, that are now a feature of the main street of many towns. Time was when politicians held their clinics in the back room of a pub. Now they have plush offices with their names emblazoned in lurid neon. These serve to advertise the wares of Timmy O’Hooligan or whomever, and are basically invitations to come ask him to intervene on their behalf (fixins) or to provide information (which the citizens information bureau down the road has anyhow). So its selling pork, fixins, info and so on.


So too are politician shops – they have offices in the parliament in which they have secretarial staff and where they are contactable, we have citizens information and other local bureau to give us advice on how to get a pothole fixed or a pension form filled in, and we have no need of these shops. Politicians elect to have them, at our expense, to show their wares, to sell themselves, to increase their income earning potential. In other words, they are commercial activities.

http://brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/pork-fixins-and-professional-politicians/