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View Full Version : When Will Irish Politics Change ? Tok Thread by Comte



Tok
03-03-2010, 10:02 PM
Posted by Comte

I commend Vincent Browne for pushing this agenda of constitutional change within the body politic. He's totally on the money with this one. I have trekked roads and canvassed hard with close friends who happen to be politicians. Many years ago one of them was elected to the council and he was simply over awed at the amount off extra money he had in his pocket. Although a highly intelligent guy and a brilliant negotiator he was lost in the shady world. Itís very hard for smart able and young politicians to have to sit around the same table as people that are simply inept and there because they cutely know how to play the party system.

We can expect nothing from local government. And I mean nothing. I was in Galway county council offices last week taxing my car. There were 8 cubicles and only 3 staff. They cue was out the door. I was nearly 45 minutes waiting for what took 2 minutes. Across the hallway is the planning office. Lots of people walking around with paper in their hands. Nobody is building houses in county Galway; no development is happening in the city or county so why are the same number of staff still employed there and what are they doing.

I went to drop off my CAO application last week. They close for lunch.
On the final for applications, one would imagine its one of the busiest days of the year, but they close for lunch.

I went Galway city hall to meet their energy engineer. (Heís a great guy by the way, we're lucky to have him) but he's moved office. Nobody could tell me where he was or what even his number is. I wanted to get some bags for recycling, spent 20 minutes dealing with the cash desk while he looked for the address of the house, then asked me how I was paying even through there was cash in my hand. Then he gives me a receipt and sends me to another office. I go and ring the bell while the lady finishes her mindless chat on the phone about some bullshit. I then give her the receipt and she gives me the bags.

Do these people not get it? Let me state I'm not a right wing neo-con that lives in a McGreevy or Freidman dream where everything is privatised, far from it. But this has to change. If I ring up a private waste operator in Galway city, they will hand deliver the bags that day and email me with all the payment methods within an hour. Thatís organised systems that work and flexible work practices. Unions have a lot to answer for, a lot. Teachers come out everytime their threatened with this line that they educate our future, they have a vital role in our society. And indeed this is true, but donít use this to hold a gun to the head of the nation. Many teachers are useless, uninspired and simply lazy. Many are gifted, dedicated and inspirational. Everyone on this site can concur with that simple fact. Teachers are well paid. I worked as a mortgage broker for 10 years so I have a good idea of everyone's salary. Teachers operate in a world that is defined and driven by results, so itís pretty easy to gauge how good or bad a teacher by simply looking at the results of their students. If their lagging behind look first at helping them with teaching methods, improving discipline etc and if they drag their heals well then their not doing their job. Then itís the door. I donít want to sound as if I'm singling out teachers but their easy example to use.

This country needs strong government and institutions to move forward.

I engaged with FAS last year looking for a career change and new direction. I was the one doing the talking. There are people unemployed and have master degree's in human resources and are been advised by people in FAS that got in their in good times because they knew a councillor. The enterprise boards, tithe development boards, the myriad of quangoís and the government institutions are simply ran by people that don't know what their doing.

We may slag off the English a lot, but they know how to manage information and manage people. 200 years of empire will do that. I worked for the health board when I was younger, and one summer they went on strike over the closing and privatising of the kitchens. It was actually a good deal and nobody was losing their job. The union riled up the downtrodden workers to further their own agenda and the workers happily went along with it to stick it to the suits. It killed moral turned people against each other and patients suffered.

We have this situation because politicians just donít care. That might sound simplistic but itís the truth. Neither have they any vision. I've had a lot of time on my hands over the last year and have got lost in Gore Vidal, John Rawls, McWilliams, Fintan O'toole, chomsky, Francis bacon etc etc...I sincerely doubt that your average gombeen councillor has even heard of any of these people. I was speaking a Galway city councillor one day and used a comment form Francis bacon. I didnít expect him to know the quote but was shocked that he hadnít even heard of bacon. This guy is hotly tipped to take a seat in Galway west sometime soon. This is shocking. But if you look at the function and reasons for politics in this country your just laughed at and called a smart ass.

Fianna fail and fine Gael have a lot to answer for in many regards, but the simple fact is that they are responsible for getting people jobs right through he public service. This is a fact, no matter what they say. These people are placed into jobs in an already compromised position and then used to help the network of favours and information thatís required to sustain the average local politician. This is the monster, this is the problem. Form years of canvassing I can tell you that people have a lot to answer for themselves. Every doorstep is the same old question like what have you ever done for the town and the usual crap about potholes. These are not the issues. If you ask a councillor how he/she is getting on they will gauge their position by how many people they can "sort out". This is counter productive but we the people perpetuate this system.

Politics is for legislating new ideas and changing things. Not in this country. Nothing has changed. This country stood on the brink of ruin last year and what has changed nothing. We the people now have taken on the debt of the banks all 54 billion of it. But the party faces are still the same, fianna fail are still in power, regulation of business and banks hasnít changed, government systems havenít changed, our vision of the future hasnít changed, nothing.

Vincent Browne, Pat Rabitte, Naoise Nunn and Prof Elaine Byrne savaged Noel Dempsey last week. All he did was grin at them. They tripped him up, caught him bullshitting, forced him to make a point and then contradict that point later. Its was shocking and funny. All the hard-line fianna fail supporters pitied poor noel been poked at by these dirty lefties and smart ass academics. He then walked out the door, hopped into his merc and descended off to the dail bar to laugh at the brainy people.

The whole system is wrong. We need major constitutional change or will end up where we started. Our beloved Dr Alan Ahern is convinced nama will work, but the only thing certain about economics is that nothing is certain. It will work, but for whoís advantage. Socialisation of debt was one question he refused to answer at a recent lecture in NUIG. Afterwards all the business glitterati of the city stroked his back and told him how amazing he is. And yes he a great performer, but itís the performance that covers over his real agenda. Remember he came out from underneath Greenspans wing, and now he's appointed Rothschild to "advise" us. God help us. We can talk about change all day, but we can expect the system to want to change, why would they?

_________________
Comte

Tok
03-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Posted by Cactus Flower

A thoughtful post. I was about to reply, and then we had a two day outage.

The political system is a two way street. Fianna Fail got into power and stayed in power on the basis of election promises. T.D.s who spend "too much time" on policy matters and national issues often pay the price by losing their seat at the next election. How would Constitutional change help that ?



I went to drop off my CAO application last week. They close for lunch.
On the final for applications, one would imagine its one of the busiest days of the year, but they close for lunch.
Lunchtime opening seemed to happen for a while and then stop again. Is there anyone who can explain that.

I went Galway city hall to meet their energy engineer. (He’s a great guy by the way, we're lucky to have him) but he's moved office. Nobody could tell me where he was or what even his number is. I wanted to get some bags for recycling, spent 20 minutes dealing with the cash desk while he looked for the address of the house, then asked me how I was paying even through there was cash in my hand. Then he gives me a receipt and sends me to another office. I go and ring the bell while the lady finishes her mindless chat on the phone about some bullshit. I then give her the receipt and she gives me the bags.


I've worked in public and private sector jobs in more than one country. The public sector is an adjunct to goverment. Mutual back scratching goes on. Corruption in appointments in Ireland was largely overcome by the National Local Appointments Commission. A lot of appointments have no been devolved again. I haven't heard of any dodgy appointments as yet.


Do these people not get it? Let me state I'm not a right wing neo-con that lives in a McGreevy or Freidman dream where everything is privatised, far from it. But this has to change. If I ring up a private waste operator in Galway city, they will hand deliver the bags that day and email me with all the payment methods within an hour. That’s organised systems that work and flexible work practices. Unions have a lot to answer for, a lot. Teachers come out everytime their threatened with this line that they educate our future, they have a vital role in our society. And indeed this is true, but don’t use this to hold a gun to the head of the nation.


There are good and bad aspects to public and private organisations. The Stardust was private. Eurostar, which turned out not to have an evacuation plan for when there was a breakdown, is private.
The London Underground, publicly owned, has a much better record for dealing with emergencies.

There is a difference between the Irish and English public sectors that I think stems from the colonial past, when civil servants were part of the foreign ruling class. You can see the same in other colonial and post colonial countries. The British sent their worst civil servants here and they looked down on the natives. Then the new republican governments used public sector appoinments are rewards for their friends and allies. The idea of a public sector who are "public servants" dedicated to the common good is alien to some.



Many teachers are useless, uninspired and simply lazy. Many are gifted, dedicated and inspirational. Everyone on this site can concur with that simple fact. Teachers are well paid. I worked as a mortgage broker for 10 years so I have a good idea of everyone's salary. Teachers operate in a world that is defined and driven by results, so it’s pretty easy to gauge how good or bad a teacher by simply looking at the results of their students. If their lagging behind look first at helping them with teaching methods, improving discipline etc and if they drag their heals well then their not doing their job. Then it’s the door. I don’t want to sound as if I'm singling out teachers but their easy example to use.

When a teacher is really bad, exam results are affected by the fact that a lot of parents who can pay for grinds or help their children.


This country needs strong government and institutions to move forward.
Imo it needs the engagement of the majority of the population. Strong institutions are no good if they don't serve the public.



I engaged with FAS last year looking for a career change and new direction. I was the one doing the talking. There are people unemployed and have master degree's in human resources and are been advised by people in FAS that got in their in good times because they knew a councillor. The enterprise boards, tithe development boards, the myriad of quango’s and the government institutions are simply ran by people that don't know what their doing.

We may slag off the English a lot, but they know how to manage information and manage people. 200 years of empire will do that. I worked for the health board when I was younger, and one summer they went on strike over the closing and privatising of the kitchens. It was actually a good deal and nobody was losing their job. The union riled up the downtrodden workers to further their own agenda and the workers happily went along with it to stick it to the suits. It killed moral turned people against each other and patients suffered.


In general, privatisation in Britain has driven down wages and reduced working conditions.

Its a disgrace that so any highly qualified people are out of work.


We have this situation because politicians just don’t care. That might sound simplistic but it’s the truth. Neither have they any vision. I've had a lot of time on my hands over the last year and have got lost in Gore Vidal, John Rawls, McWilliams, Fintan O'toole, chomsky, Francis bacon etc etc...I sincerely doubt that your average gombeen councillor has even heard of any of these people. I was speaking to a Galway city councillor one day and used a comment form Francis bacon. I didn’t expect him to know the quote but was shocked that he hadn’t even heard of bacon. This guy is hotly tipped to take a seat in Galway west sometime soon. This is shocking. But if you look at the function and reasons for politics in this country your just laughed at and called a smart ass.


Fianna fail and fine Gael have a lot to answer for in many regards, but the simple fact is that they are responsible for getting people jobs right through he public service. This is a fact, no matter what they say. These people are placed into jobs in an already compromised position and then used to help the network of favours and information that’s required to sustain the average local politician. This is the monster, this is the problem. Form years of canvassing I can tell you that people have a lot to answer for themselves. Every doorstep is the same old question like what have you ever done for the town and the usual crap about potholes. These are not the issues. If you ask a councillor how he/she is getting on they will gauge their position by how many people they can "sort out". This is counter productive but we the people perpetuate this system.

Politics is for legislating new ideas and changing things. Not in this country. Nothing has changed. This country stood on the brink of ruin last year and what has changed nothing. We the people now have taken on the debt of the banks all 54 billion of it. But the party faces are still the same, fianna fail are still in power, regulation of business and banks hasn’t changed, government systems haven’t changed, our vision of the future hasn’t changed, nothing.

Vincent Browne, Pat Rabitte, Naoise Nunn and Prof Elaine Byrne savaged Noel Dempsey last week. All he did was grin at them. They tripped him up, caught him bullshitting, forced him to make a point and then contradict that point later. Its was shocking and funny. All the hard-line fianna fail supporters pitied poor noel been poked at by these dirty lefties and smart ass academics. He then walked out the door, hopped into his merc and descended off to the dail bar to laugh at the brainy people.

The whole system is wrong. We need major constitutional change or will end up where we started. Our beloved Dr Alan Ahern is convinced nama will work, but the only thing certain about economics is that nothing is certain. It will work, but for who’s advantage. Socialisation of debt was one question he refused to answer at a recent lecture in NUIG. Afterwards all the business glitterati of the city stroked his back and told him how amazing he is. And yes he a great performer, but it’s the performance that covers over his real agenda. Remember he came out from underneath Greenspans wing, and now he's appointed Rothschild to "advise" us. God help us. We can talk about change all day, but we can expect the system to want to change, why would they?


It's very true that we need major changes. The IMF has a poor record for its inverventions in national economies. I don't believe FF wants to or has the ability to change anything.

What constitutional changes do you think could cure these problems ?

Tok
03-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Posted by Xray

Maybe our system does work. Maybe democracy is supposed to reflected society back to itself. We have a Dail full mainly with second rate panicy weak people.

If you dont like the whats in the mirror there is little point ranting about the quality of the glass. We elected and tolerated them.

We are great for being totally one way or the other. We love a hero, build him up to a level that no human could live up to. Then cast him to the wolves when he is flawed. We are childish to think this way.

When I look in history I see people like Collins, an unreasonable level of expectation was heaped on him by the public, fellow leaders and history. When he failed we killed him and decided he was a traitor. It has taken two generations to broadly accept he was simply a gifted human that was flawed.

Are we doing the same now?

Blaming everyone else. The public sector, TDs, George Lee, Foreigners, the banks etc.

A couple of years ago we all wanted tax cuts, a Wii for the study and a pay increase. We asked for it and we got it. There is more wrong here than a few gombeen men in leinster house. Blaming them alone will not solve this any more than shooting Collins delivered The Republic.

Grow up, of course they close for lunch, they are understaffed and hungry. How about you do your bit for the country and send the form in on time or come back at 2pm? Why should we employ extra staff so you don't have to do anything for yourself? Sorry to insult you, but everything is not someone else s fault. You are lucky there is not one office in Dublin that did not have a Q a mile long into it as far as I am concerned. I suggest you post it or email it on time next time.

Tax your car on line, I have not Q'd for years for anything like that. I frequently see people wait all night for medical attention without complaining, waiting 45 minutes for a tax disc is nothing. The country needs people to take control for themselves not some semi fascist "hero" to fix everything.