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View Full Version : Nessa Childers now semi-detached from Labour.



Baron von Biffo
28-02-2012, 12:17 PM
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mep-baffles-colleagues-as-she-abandons-labour-group-3032908.html

For reasons that are not made clear in the above article, Nessa Childers has left the Lab grouping in the European Parliament but says she is still a member of the Lab parliamentary party.

We are agog GG. Will Burton's relentless attacks on SW recipients or Howlin and Rabbitte's pincer movement against state companies push you the last half inch to independence?

Greengoddess
28-02-2012, 12:40 PM
Lots of fuss and misunderstanding of a private email. But an interesting slant to the article . Am not semi detached form Labour only from the delegation out here. For some reason there are those who chose to misrepresent this. Delegations are not a big deal out here. In some people don't speak to each other. Not the case with us. Eamon Gilmore has now said that he will leave us to our own devices . Undoubtedly if I were to turn in to a fascist or something I would be expelled from both the socialist group and Labour. I think there is a lot of nervousness about the fiscal compact. A about which we have our own views......

Dear colleagues
*
Re:* Head of Irish Labour Party Delegation in the Socialists and Democrats Group in the European Parliament (S & D).
*
I am writing directly to Ireland East members regarding the Irish Labour Party Delegation and the Head of Irish Labour Party Delegation (HOD) in the European Parliament (EP), and to explain why it is impossible for me to be involved in either role. **As you are probably aware, I am not putting my name forward for HOD, but regretfully I also have to remain outside the Irish Labour Party delegation in the EP.*
*
This state of affairs has arisen because of what I believe is a lack of understanding, or possibly support, by the party leadership for the distinct role of an MEP. *That while it is important that I*carefully consider the implications of each vote in the European Parliament for Irish people, and that I follow Labour Party policy, I am not a member of the Irish Government.

An example of this difference was the reaction to my decision to voice an opinion on, and vote against, the appointment of Kevin Cardiff to the European Court of Auditors.* Another example was my vote against the so-called 'six-pack' of financial controls supported by the Irish Government. *I voted, along with the other Labour MEPS, against the six-pack because I believe it entrenches austerity policies across the EU.* As the members know I also have serious concerns about the Fiscal Compact Treaty. **The S & D group are opposed to, and have serious concerns about, both the austerity ‘six-pack’ and the fiscal treaty.
*
While I will continue to work closely with my two colleagues in Europe - Phil Prendergast MEP and Emer Costello MEP - until this conflict of interest between the role of the Irish Labour Party MEP and the role of the Irish Government remains I cannot re-join the Irish Labour Party Delegation.
*
Yours sincerely
Nessa Childers MEP

*

C. Flower
28-02-2012, 12:58 PM
Lots of fuss and misunderstanding of a private email. But an interesting slant to the article . Am not semi detached form Labour only from the delegation out here. For some reason there are those who chose to misrepresent this. Delegations are not a big deal out here. In some people don't speak to each other. Not the case with us. Eamon Gilmore has now said that he will leave us to our own devices . Undoubtedly if I were to turn in to a fascist or something I would be expelled from both the socialist group and Labour. I think there is a lot of nervousness about the fiscal compact. A about which we have our own views......

Dear colleagues
*
Re:* Head of Irish Labour Party Delegation in the Socialists and Democrats Group in the European Parliament (S & D).
*
I am writing directly to Ireland East members regarding the Irish Labour Party Delegation and the Head of Irish Labour Party Delegation (HOD) in the European Parliament (EP), and to explain why it is impossible for me to be involved in either role. **As you are probably aware, I am not putting my name forward for HOD, but regretfully I also have to remain outside the Irish Labour Party delegation in the EP.*
*
This state of affairs has arisen because of what I believe is a lack of understanding, or possibly support, by the party leadership for the distinct role of an MEP. *That while it is important that I*carefully consider the implications of each vote in the European Parliament for Irish people, and that I follow Labour Party policy, I am not a member of the Irish Government.

An example of this difference was the reaction to my decision to voice an opinion on, and vote against, the appointment of Kevin Cardiff to the European Court of Auditors.* Another example was my vote against the so-called 'six-pack' of financial controls supported by the Irish Government. *I voted, along with the other Labour MEPS, against the six-pack because I believe it entrenches austerity policies across the EU.* As the members know I also have serious concerns about the Fiscal Compact Treaty. **The S & D group are opposed to, and have serious concerns about, both the austerity ‘six-pack’ and the fiscal treaty.
*
While I will continue to work closely with my two colleagues in Europe - Phil Prendergast MEP and Emer Costello MEP - until this conflict of interest between the role of the Irish Labour Party MEP and the role of the Irish Government remains I cannot re-join the Irish Labour Party Delegation.
*
Yours sincerely
Nessa Childers MEP

*

On the six-pack, and on other changes in EU practice and law, we've seen a shift which in my mind indubitably involves loss of sovereignty and legally entrenched neo liberalism.

I'm pleased to see President Higgins and yourself acknowledging that. In the long run, not having referenda where they are required will imo erode the credibility of all of the European institutions. There is an inevitable loss of civil rights that goes along with erosion of democracy and there will be a social response to that, with a very uncertain outcome.

Even John Bruton, before the event, anticipated that there would be a need for democratisation of the EU in order to compensate for loss of local democracy, although he has conveniently forgotten it.

TotalMayhem
28-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Even John Bruton, before the event, anticipated that there would be a need for democratisation of the EU in order to compensate for loss of local democracy, although he has conveniently forgotten it.

It's what democracy does to people once it has swept them into power. ;)

C. Flower
28-02-2012, 02:01 PM
It's what democracy does to people once it has swept them into power. ;)

Or even, in some cases, out of it :) Bruton is more or less unemployed, at present.

TotalMayhem
28-02-2012, 02:13 PM
Or even, in some cases, out of it :) Bruton is more or less unemployed, at present.

Unemployed, eh? :D


Currently , John Bruton is Chairman of IFSC Ireland, a private sector body set up to develop the financial services industry in Ireland. He is a member of the board of Ingersoll Rand plc, and of Montpelier Re plc,. He is also a member of the board of the Centre for European Policy Studies. He is a Distinguished Fellow at the Centre for Transatlantic Relations in Washington Dc ,and a visiting fellow at the European Institute in the London School of Economics

PaddyJoe
28-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Brand new MEP Emer Costello, recently co-opted to take over in Europe from Proinsias De Rossa, was listed on an official EU website as Labour’s delegation leader.
Phil Prendergast wasn't very happy about that and neither was Emer Costello when she heard about as apparently it wasn't true.
Could there possibly be a certain amount of **** stirring going on here?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0225/1224312373909.html

PaddyJoe
28-02-2012, 02:44 PM
Pat Kenny interview this morning. Starts about 10 minutes in.
http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9:3212508:133:28-02-2012:

C. Flower
28-02-2012, 03:00 PM
Unemployed, eh? :D

My understanding is that the IFSC gig was very temp and no longer paying.

Quite possibly none of the other items are paid - expenses only type stuff.

The poor man quite possibly may be depending on his pensions :eek:

That of course would be fine and dandy, unless he has made any borrowings for investment/houses in the boom.

TotalMayhem
28-02-2012, 03:07 PM
Montpelier Re is a Bermudian reinsurance company for the global insurance market. Ingersoll-Rand is a $13 billion global diversified industrial company. I can't see their board members working for charity or expenses only. :)

Baron von Biffo
28-02-2012, 03:14 PM
My understanding is that the IFSC gig was very temp and no longer paying.

Quite possibly none of the other items are paid - expenses only type stuff.

The poor man quite possibly may be depending on his pensions :eek:

That of course would be fine and dandy, unless he has made any borrowings for investment/houses in the boom.

There's considerable pressure for a debt forgiveness law to help him out there. ;)

Greengoddess
28-02-2012, 03:25 PM
Phil Prendergast wasn't very happy about that and neither was Emer Costello when she heard about as apparently it wasn't true.
Could there possibly be a certain amount of **** stirring going on here?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0225/1224312373909.html

Short version . Since I won't take up the position the two of them have to sort it out. Things didn't quite go as planned but I'm sure they will be fine. Apparently there is going to be a referendum which explaines a great deal. Have to get going on that. With my voice almost completely gone. Great timing! Any thoughts welcome . Baron I can not answer those issues about Burton and Rabbitte at this time. Perhaps I am not the right person for them

Ah Well
28-02-2012, 03:43 PM
Any thoughts welcome

My thoughts on the Referendum are that it's wholly academic as the undemocratic Germanic Union will plough ahead regardless of what we say and do

A No Vote essentially means either Yes as far as they're concerned or they'll just ignore it as an inconvenience ... the little periphery on the western edge of Europe will just get kicked further out into the Atlantic

That or they should of course not prevent one from voting No if that were one's inclination whenever this Referendum does come about

C. Flower
11-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Nessa Childers has given a long interview to the Daily Mail, part of which is an interesting account of her personal biography. I'm pleased to hear that the internet worked well for her as a place to make friends.

On the political side, more to the point on this forum, she puts forward a less than clear position on the Referendum.


"She says of the Fiscal Compact, which would commit the country to strict budget targets: "It's designed to satisfy the Germans - it's not an EU treaty, it's a political act. My Socialist group (in the European Parliament) are very hostile to this Treaty, so are the whole Parliament, by the way, from the Right to the Left. It would never have gone through the Parliament if it was an EU Treaty." However, Nessa says she is, tragically and reluctantly" voting Yes in the Referendum, believing it "too dangerous" to reject it.

"But I won't legitimise it by saying it is a good thing" she insists. "At this point, it is too risky to say no to it. We can't afford to be excluded from the European Stability Mechanism (bailout fund).

"I cannot go out there saying it's a good thing, but I will tell people that it is not safe to say No. I believe that when I articulate that about the Treaty I am articulating the position that the Labour Party themselves are not able to because they are in Government."

Which is it, a good thing or a bad thing? Who voted to tie the ESB to agreement to the Intergovernmental Fiscal Treaty ? Does Labour support the fact that Ireland voted in favour of tying the ESM to a Yes vote in Ireland?

According to Paul Murphy of the SP, the vote to tie in the ESM to the Treaty has not yet been ratified by Ireland and could be vetoed.

She also says that the fact that we voted through the Six Pack and "that's enough."


"We voted on the Six Pack and it's identical except for certain things..."We voted this through Parliament already. In my opinion, that's enough. I'm an elected representative and I've no say in this Treaty but I did with the Six Pack. So there is some democratic legitimacy to that. I can stand by that, even though most of the Socialist Group disagreed with most of it."

She then goes on to say that Kenny is scaremongering in saying this is a vote on EU membership, and to give a vivid account of how Pronsias da Rossa's bullying phone calls to her over the Cardiff affair were "like being attacked by a pack of wolves."

Childers is clearly under enormous pressure from the Labour Party and the establishment, but appears to have been to some extent politically paralysed by this.

Did she and the other Irish MEPS all vote for the Six Pack ? If so, why?
If not, how does this affect their stance on the Fiscal Treaty.

Childers rightly says that the Treaty is a bad thing, but what are the consequences of a No vote that would be so terrible? Are not the consequences of a Yes vote appalling?

A very small number of people are speaking out truthfully about the Treaty. David Norris and Marian Harkin have. So has the SP and SWP. All of the main political parties of Ireland have been hobbled and are so tied to the gravy train that they will sell off our last tree and last breath of wind to keep themselves in free lunches.

Sam Lord
11-03-2012, 11:24 AM
We voted on the Six Pack and it's identical except for certain things


:)

I'll never forget the Canadian Prime Minister describing the attack on the twin towers as "Unprecedented for a very long time ....."

But then he was Quebecois with a notoriously tenuous grip on the English language.

Baron von Biffo
11-03-2012, 11:47 AM
She then goes on to say that Kenny is scaremongering in saying this is a vote on EU membership, and to give a vivid account of how Pronsias da Rossa's bullying phone calls to her over the Cardiff affair were "like being attacked by a pack of wolves."

Cardiff might tell her that there's worse things out there than Frank Ross throwing his toys out of the pram. She wasn't the subject of a relentless campaign of hostility by media, politicians and the public and none of the wolves on her tail were of the UKIP variety.

Greengoddess
11-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Nessa Childers has given a long interview to the Daily Mail, part of which is an interesting account of her personal biography. I'm pleased to hear that the internet worked well for her as a place to make friends.

On the political side, more to the point on this forum, she puts forward a less than clear position on the Referendum



Which is it, a good thing or a bad thing? Who voted to tie the ESB to agreement to the Intergovernmental Fiscal Treaty ? Does Labour support the fact that Ireland voted in favour of tying the ESM to a Yes vote in Ireland?

According to Paul Murphy of the SP, the vote to tie in the ESM to the Treaty has not yet been ratified by Ireland and could be vetoed.

She also says that the fact that we voted through the Six Pack and "that's enough."



She then goes on to say that Kenny is scaremongering in saying this is a vote on EU membership, and to give a vivid account of how Pronsias da Rossa's bullying phone calls to her over the Cardiff affair were "like being attacked by a pack of wolves."

Childers is clearly under enormous pressure from the Labour Party and the establishment, but appears to have been to some extent politically paralysed by this.

Did she and the other Irish MEPS all vote for the Six Pack ? If so, why?
If not, how does this affect their stance on the Fiscal Treaty.

Childers rightly says that the Treaty is a bad thing, but what are the consequences of a No vote that would be so terrible? Are not the consequences of a Yes vote appalling?

A very small number of people are speaking out truthfully about the Treaty. David Norris and Marian Harkin have. So has the SP and SWP. All of the main political parties of Ireland have been hobbled and are so tied to the gravy train that they will sell off our last tree and last breath of wind to keep themselves in free lunches.

HI guys, again.
CF. I am not in any way paralysed but am certainly becoming exhausted with all this. The position is a simple risk assessment. It may be wrong but is similar to that of a great many commentators like Colm McCarthy and others further to the left. It would be so easy to become notorious by advocating a no vote and equally advantageous to have my poster all over Leinster, paid for by the EP, saying yes. I won't do either because the effect of a no vote are not what we want strategically at this point. The next stage will be crucial. I do however feel that a person should have a right to an opinion and not come under ideological coercion for doing so.

Greengoddess
11-03-2012, 02:07 PM
Here is a very good and fluent description for Desmond O Toole, chair of the PES in Ireland. Ignore the bit about at the end if you like ! It's in a debate on CLWP. Proabably there is some rule about mentioning other fora. If so, sorry.

"How refreshing to hear one of our MEPs talking about an issue as important as this without resorting to the usual equivocating language that attends most politics. What a disappointment that no sooner Nessa does this that she draws criticism for inconsistency between European and national positions. It’s as if we are so conditioned to a managed discourse that we refuse to read the complexities in such matters. This is a large part of the reason why democratic politicians are so guarded in their public comments.

There are differences in the respective positions of the Irish Labour Party on the one hand and the Party of European Socialists (PES) and Socialists and Democrats Group in the European Prliament on the other. These differences arise from the different contexts in which we operate. At the European level the argument is between austerity and investment unconstrained by bailouts and Troikas. It is an argument propelled along by the resistance of the European Parliament to the fixation with austerity and the likely election of a PES candidate as president of France on May 8th. On the other hand, Labour in Ireland is constrained by the conditions of the Troika bailout that demand a different approach, as Nessa outlined, to the Fiscal Treaty.

This whole issue is being actively debated in the Labour Party at the moment, especially whether a referendum should take place before or after the French presidential elections. What I’ve witnessed at all of the meetings I’ve attended on this is an appreciation by party members of the different spaces that Irish Labour and our European party operate within. There is common agreement across our European political family that an exclusive focus on fiscal consolidation is not working and cannot work. However, there is also an appreciation that how this plays out at national level depends on the particular circumstances pertaining to that country. This appreciation reflects the different but connected realities operating at the national and European levels. Criticisms of a lack of consistency between the European perspective and the national one fails to take these realities into account.

Nessa Childers is not afraid to give public voice to that debate and for that I am immensely grateful. Nessa is a courageous woman. Our response should reflect the complexities of this issue and avoid the usual knee-jerk responses.

Desmond O’Toole
Labour Party and Party of European Socialists
(personal capacity)"

unspecific
11-03-2012, 02:36 PM
HI guys, again.
CF. I am not in any way paralysed but am certainly becoming exhausted with all this. The position is a simple risk assessment. It may be wrong but is similar to that of a great many commentators like Colm McCarthy and others further to the left. It would be so easy to become notorious by advocating a no vote and equally advantageous to have my poster all over Leinster, paid for by the EP, saying yes. I won't do either because the effect of a no vote are not what we want strategically at this point. The next stage will be crucial. I do however feel that a person should have a right to an opinion and not come under ideological coercion for doing so.

Hi GG. Refreshing to have the likes of yourselves publicly discussing positions with us plebs.

It seems to me that the only people for the treaty accept that it is dreadful but a necessary evil to ensure we have access to the ESM. On the surface, that seems a responsible position and I wouldn't doubt the intentions of anyone taking that position.

However it falls flat for a few reasons. It is called the "ESM", the eurozone stability mechanism for a reason. It is there to safeguard the euro and the eurozone. Much like the initial rounds of bailouts that were forced upon countries to do just that, if it came down to the integrity of the currency, the ESM would apply itself to a country and not the other way around.

Secondly, the ESM is not the only source of funding around. I appreciate the IMF and the ECB are playing the good cop/bad cop game, but looking at how the IMF dealt with Iceland, it would not be the end of the bailout-world if we had a 1-on-1 program with only them.

Thirdly, what does the ESM do if/when the crisis passes? Like the IMF and World Bank before it, we will have a 2 trillion euro global superbank sitting around, naturally looking for new programs, to earn returns on its capital if even to keep up with inflation. It will take on the form of an aggressive drunk, lurching from eurozone state to eurozone state looking for reasons to launch programs. Or what if it becomes an investor and floods smaller eurozone states like what happened in the post-2001 Celtic Tiger in Ireland and creates massive unstable bubbles. It is also particularly worrisome that this 800 pound gorilla has no democratic oversight, no legal accountability and will likely spend its time in charge of numerous countries that find themselves locked into the wrong side of the balance of payments structural issue(the primary problem which the treaty actually exacerbates!)

And finally, I think it is a gross mis-use of an elected representative's power to play poker with a country's constitution for access to funding from a certain institution. Even if we do pass it, and we do sign up to bailout 2 from the ESM and it doesn't implode the country... long afterwards we will be stuck with this insane, economically-illiterate straight-jacket for non-crisis times. It will likely create the next one.