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Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 10:09 AM
Finally, a political leader speaks to the nation instead of the "international audience". This was a fine speech, well delivered, with passion and conviction in spades. Joan Burtons speech yesterday was also excellent. Labour stepping up a gear and not before time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RHKCZhkPBU"]YouTube-Eamonn Gilmore One Ireland


Nature has given us a beautiful homeland.

Our bright and resourceful people, for generations, have worked hard to set it free and make it prosper.

Is cuis broid, gaisci ar laochra in ealaoin, litriocht, ceol agus spoirt.

Ireland is a great country.

But our country has been laid low by the reckless actions of a feckless few.

On this Spring evening, Ireland lies wounded. Injured by greed. Emotionally drained because the very institutions which were trusted by most, have let us all down so badly.

It is now personal. The job losses, the business failures, the mortgage defaults, the cutbacks are no longer just items on the nine o clock news. They are in our own families, among our own neighbours and within our own circle of friends.

We worry. Mostly about what the future holds for our children. Can we afford their education? Will they get a job? Will they too have to emigrate like the generations before?

At times, we feel we are beginning to cope. With reduced incomes. With the uncertain future. Learning to adapt to life in a recession. Coming to terms with it. And then we hear of yet another scandal. Another dark secret from the past. Still more of our hard earned taxes going to bail out a broken bank. And we get angry all over again.

It has to change.



Full Text here (http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/12715316113515565.html)

moss
18-04-2010, 10:35 AM
Are you taking the **** ?

Is Gilmore also taking the **** ?

One Ireland, a nation ? and not one mention of partition.

Infact he claims Labour stood aside 92 years ago so 'our country could be freed and made independent from a foriegn power'

I wasted 20 minutes of my life on that drivel.

WTF ?

moss
18-04-2010, 10:45 AM
Let us set ourselves the target to have it ready for the 100th anniversary of the 1916 rising, that seminal moment when our state was conceived.

There will be a few men from 1916 turning in their graves listening to that line.

Gilmore can do as he pleases at his conference but the title of this thread should be changed. ******* disgrace.

Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 10:50 AM
No - I'm not taking the ****. You'll have to ask Eamonn Gilmore if he is as I couldn't say.

You don't have to vote for him you know.

Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 10:54 AM
There will be a few men from 1916 turning in their graves listening to that line.

Gilmore can do as he pleases at his conference but the title of this thread should be changed. ******* disgrace.

I beg to differ, the men from 1916 would be delighted to see the current cowboys ran out of town. The title of the thread is the title of the speech. If you think it's an effing disgrace, take it up with the labour party.

moss
18-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Yep I thought I would have to sign out before I got a response.

I can't vote for him *****.
Neither you nor him seem to realise that as he mentions the men of 1916.

**** if this is what FF and FF-lite have to compete with it will be a walk for them.
Thick ********s.

moss
18-04-2010, 10:58 AM
I beg to differ, the men from 1916 would be delighted to see the current cowboys ran out of town. The title of the thread is the title of the speech. If you think it's an effing disgrace, take it up with the labour party.


Yep 1916 was about ensuring a partitioned Ireland. God help ****************************.

Who wrote the title ? You trying to blame Gutless for your title ?

Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Yep I thought I would have to sign out before I got a response..

Paranoia?

I can't vote for him ya eejit. I'd know this how?


Neither you nor him seem to realise that as he mentions the men of 1916. English please


**** if this is what FF and FF-lite have to compete with it will be a walk for them.
Thick *******.
Right so....

BTW The whole Labour Conference is tag-lined "One Ireland" Mods can change if they wish to suit your sensibilities.

moss
18-04-2010, 11:06 AM
You don't know Ireland is partitioned ?

Seriously......********

C. Flower
18-04-2010, 12:33 PM
You don't know Ireland is partitioned ?

Seriously......********



Ball not man please, note to everyone on this and all other threads.

C. Flower
18-04-2010, 12:50 PM
I've no intention of letting this thread go away.

Gilmore and Labour have put a marker down that they intend to stand enough candidates to be the lead party of Government after the next General Election.


I am determined, that at the coming General Election, the Labour Party will run enough candidates, to enable the Irish people to make Labour the largest party in the next Dail, and to lead the next Government.

In this speech he has given no indication of who might be suitable partners. This is a critical issue and I think it is opportunist and unfair on the electorate to have skated over it.

Gilmore's speech was an outline manifesto and says a lot about employment and training.




Some extracts -
We need a Government that is not, content to work a broken system, but a Government that will change the way the system works, and be prepared to change the system itself if necessary
.

Change the system ? In what way ? Economic and social revolution ? I don't think so. A few tweaks ?



A government that will lead the change that has already begun, in people's lives and in the way we all see the world differently since the recession:
That prosperity should be sustainable. That we have to work with each other. Le chéile. One Ireland. That human values are more important than economic prices. That Jobs and Reform and Fairness must be the guiding markers for the next Government.


One Ireland ? Extraordinary to take this as a slogan, ignoring the North (not a word said about unification) and ignoring the fact that Ireland has never been so divided, and that in order to cure the ills it needs to be divided so that the majority to deal with the minority who are running this place.



Ninety two years ago, Labour stood aside, so that our country could be freed and made independent from a foreign power. Today, Labour steps forward, now ready to lead, so that Ireland can be liberated again, this time from the treachery of the insiders who have squandered our prosperity, wasted our opportunities and put our futures at risk.
Let me be bluntly clear about this. Our objective at the next election, whenever it is held, is a new Government, led by Labour
.

While not agreeing with the mode of expression, I can see that this is deeply infuriating to any republican/nationalist Irish person. At the same time, as a socialist (and supporter of national self determination), I'm infuriated with the idea that socialists should "stand aside" in favour of nationalism. Can anyone explain to me what Eamon Gilmore meant by this ?

The public clearly also want the banking crisis dealt with differently and Gilmore fails to clearly spell out how he would deal with Ireland's unrepayable debts, or with the mortgage crisis.

There is no clear statement against outsourcing and privatisation.

Gilmore portrays the crisis as being caused by feckless individuals rather than a crisis of capitalism.



This is a journey that we must travel together. As One Ireland. Our nation is too small, and the crisis and dangers we face are too great, for solo-runs or for putting sectional interest before the common good. This is not the time for division and conflict. This is the moment when we must all pull together. Le Cheile! Fis, Forbairt is Fostaiocht!


Is this a call for a national government ? What exactly is Gilmore talking about ? The country is crying out for leadership that will deal with the kleptocracy and put them firmly out of power.

Stendec
18-04-2010, 03:00 PM
Are you taking the **** ?

Is Gilmore also taking the **** ?

One Ireland, a nation ? and not one mention of partition.

Infact he claims Labour stood aside 92 years ago so 'our country could be freed and made independent from a foriegn power'

I wasted 20 minutes of my life on that drivel.

WTF ?

if they did an opinion pole on the top ten things that people heres worried about partition wouldnt get a look in!! Gilmore would be wastin his time talkin about it.

MediaBite
18-04-2010, 04:04 PM
I've no intention of letting this thread go away.

Gilmore and Labour have put a marker down that they intend to stand enough candidates to be the lead party of Government after the next General Election.



In this speech he has given no indication of who might be suitable partners. This is a critical issue and I think it is opportunist and unfair on the electorate to have skated over it.

Gilmore's speech was an outline manifesto and says a lot about employment and training.


.

Change the system ? In what way ? Economic and social revolution ? I don't think so. A few tweaks ?



One Ireland ? Extraordinary to take this as a slogan, ignoring the North (not a word said about unification) and ignoring the fact that Ireland has never been so divided, and that in order to cure the ills it needs to be divided so that the majority to deal with the minority who are running this place.

.

While not agreeing with the mode of expression, I can see that this is deeply infuriating to any republican/nationalist Irish person. At the same time, as a socialist (and supporter of national self determination), I'm infuriated with the idea that socialists should "stand aside" in favour of nationalism. Can anyone explain to me what Eamon Gilmore meant by this ?

The public clearly also want the banking crisis dealt with differently and Gilmore fails to clearly spell out how he would deal with Ireland's unrepayable debts, or with the mortgage crisis.

There is no clear statement against outsourcing and privatisation.

Gilmore portrays the crisis as being caused by feckless individuals rather than a crisis of capitalism.



Is this a call for a national government ? What exactly is Gilmore talking about ? The country is crying out for leadership that will deal with the kleptocracy and put them firmly out of power.

You've neatly gone to the heart of the matter there. Labour is still in a thrall to the 1980s Labour Party 'pragmatists' and 'modernisers'. Hence all of the infuriating prevarication on the essential points of urgent principle that you highlight. They have no effing soul anymore. Articulate, soundbite moralism is the best they are capable of.

Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 05:34 PM
You've neatly gone to the heart of the matter there. Labour is still in a thrall to the 1980s Labour Party 'pragmatists' and 'modernisers'. Hence all of the infuriating prevarication on the essential points of urgent principle that you highlight. They have no effing soul anymore. Articulate, soundbite moralism is the best they are capable of.

Look, as a citizen who has been listening to a lethargic, uninspiring Taoiseach or a MOF who talks for EU ears only, this sounded refreshing. Your analysis is of course valid and time will tell if it was only soundbites. He did seem to resonate with the prevailing mood though.

Edo
18-04-2010, 07:53 PM
I thought the speech was good.

Gilmore is a good orator and it will go down well with the Labour grassroots and the media who in general , think the sun,moon and stars shine out of his.........

He was dead right to rule out coalition with anybody - those are things you address when the dust settles and you count up the numbers.

there is only so much that you can do with a 30 minute speech - the main thing is not to ***** up - in that - only Gormley stands indicted of making an arse of things this conference season.

Labour are still our classic "opposition" party - they know what they don't like - know what appeals to the Joe Duffy listenership and are very good at expressing it - they haven't come out with a detail policy document on anything in years - so I wasn't expecting any surprise revelations this time round - making detailed policy commits you to a certain position and gives your opponents an opportunity to take potshots - Labour haven't currently got the balls to that - hopefully that will change - because in general elections - as opposed to local,European and other elections - people generally vote "for" as opposed to "against" - opposition for the sake of opposition will only take you so far.

Personally - I thought that Gilmore's research team spent a bit of time on Fine Gaels website studying their policy documents and nicked a fair bit from there and the rest was back of the fag packet stuff - but then again the Labour grassroots, IMHO,and from personal experience are not the most demanding when it comes to detail - as long as it mentions socialism, lots of other populist fluff and a skipfull of FF and FG bashing and baiting - they are generally well happy.

What will it achieve? - it should be worth a couple of % in the opinion polls as their buddies in the media are normally considerate enough to have an opinion poll the week after their conference. it also might encourage and motivate a few young and uncommitted folks to join up and get involved with Labour and they might stick around if the notoriously clannish labour party branches decide to open up and welcome them and give them a bit of space - then its mission accomplished.

Because its that last part that goes to the heart of the matter for Labour and nearly broke Pat Rabbittes heart as leader. If Labour want to translate their current poll ratings into seats at the next GE - never mind go upwards as Gilmore would like - they are desperately in need of a serious transfusion of young willing footsoldiers all around the country in serious numbers and the old stalwarts have to be prepared to stand aside and let them in. Rabitte tried to do this before the last election and was met with complete and utter indifference in some areas and active opposition in others - In my neck of the woods - the Labour constituency AGM is known as the "meeting of the Five Families" a la the Godfather - the same people have ruled the roost for godknows how many years - from one generation to the next and refuse point blank to let go - no matter how underachieving and unproductive they have become - I remember having a great chat and a pint about it with Rabitte at a wedding we both were at just after he stepped down and he was nearly crying in frustration talking about it. As an example - out of membership of nearly 200 - barely 60 turned up for a convention recently to select candidates and they want to run 2 candidates in the constituency! - are they out of their minds? - do they think Gilmore is going to carry all before him on a populist tide and that thousands are going to come out of the woodwork Obama like to drive home the message? - paradoxically Kenny, at the very best, is just about competent on TV - but is superb in face to face situations and can work a room better than any I have ever seen and is a great grassroots organiser and motivator - Gilmore is great on TV and in the dail - but is rather standoffish and cold in the real life and has, according to my labour sources - taken little or no interest, beyond words, in revamping and getting to grips with Labours fossilised and increasingly geriatric (with a few exceptions) membership still stuck in their ways and fiefdoms.

Good speech - a lot done - but a hell of lot more to do to translate those aspirations into reality.

Béal na Bláth
18-04-2010, 10:02 PM
I thought the speech was good.

Gilmore is a good orator and it will go down well with the Labour grassroots and the media who in general , think the sun,moon and stars shine out of his.........

He was dead right to rule out coalition with anybody - those are things you address when the dust settles and you count up the numbers.

there is only so much that you can do with a 30 minute speech - the main thing is not to ***** up - in that - only Gormley stands indicted of making an arse of things this conference season.

Labour are still our classic "opposition" party - they know what they don't like - know what appeals to the Joe Duffy listenership and are very good at expressing it - they haven't come out with a detail policy document on anything in years - so I wasn't expecting any surprise revelations this time round - making detailed policy commits you to a certain position and gives your opponents an opportunity to take potshots - Labour haven't currently got the balls to that - hopefully that will change - because in general elections - as opposed to local,European and other elections - people generally vote "for" as opposed to "against" - opposition for the sake of opposition will only take you so far.

Personally - I thought that Gilmore's research team spent a bit of time on Fine Gaels website studying their policy documents and nicked a fair bit from there and the rest was back of the fag packet stuff - but then again the Labour grassroots, IMHO,and from personal experience are not the most demanding when it comes to detail - as long as it mentions socialism, lots of other populist fluff and a skipfull of FF and FG bashing and baiting - they are generally well happy.

What will it achieve? - it should be worth a couple of % in the opinion polls as their buddies in the media are normally considerate enough to have an opinion poll the week after their conference. it also might encourage and motivate a few young and uncommitted folks to join up and get involved with Labour and they might stick around if the notoriously clannish labour party branches decide to open up and welcome them and give them a bit of space - then its mission accomplished.

Because its that last part that goes to the heart of the matter for Labour and nearly broke Pat Rabbittes heart as leader. If Labour want to translate their current poll ratings into seats at the next GE - never mind go upwards as Gilmore would like - they are desperately in need of a serious transfusion of young willing footsoldiers all around the country in serious numbers and the old stalwarts have to be prepared to stand aside and let them in. Rabitte tried to do this before the last election and was met with complete and utter indifference in some areas and active opposition in others - In my neck of the woods - the Labour constituency AGM is known as the "meeting of the Five Families" a la the Godfather - the same people have ruled the roost for godknows how many years - from one generation to the next and refuse point blank to let go - no matter how underachieving and unproductive they have become - I remember having a great chat and a pint about it with Rabitte at a wedding we both were at just after he stepped down and he was nearly crying in frustration talking about it. As an example - out of membership of nearly 200 - barely 60 turned up for a convention recently to select candidates and they want to run 2 candidates in the constituency! - are they out of their minds? - do they think Gilmore is going to carry all before him on a populist tide and that thousands are going to come out of the woodwork Obama like to drive home the message? - paradoxically Kenny, at the very best, is just about competent on TV - but is superb in face to face situations and can work a room better than any I have ever seen and is a great grassroots organiser and motivator - Gilmore is great on TV and in the dail - but is rather standoffish and cold in the real life and has, according to my labour sources - taken little or no interest, beyond words, in revamping and getting to grips with Labours fossilised and increasingly geriatric (with a few exceptions) membership still stuck in their ways and fiefdoms.

Good speech - a lot done - but a hell of lot more to do to translate those aspirations into reality.

Talk about damning with faint praise. He seems to have rightly ruffled some feathers with his speech ;)

Edo
18-04-2010, 10:41 PM
Talk about damning with faint praise. He seems to have rightly ruffled some feathers with his speech ;)

Not really to be perfectly frank about it - I thought I called very fairly.

Conference speeches don't really have as much an impact as you might think - they are normally forgotten a week later unless something extremely dramatic or silly happens - Im delighted that it made an impression on you - are you going to take this enthusiasm further and put your shoulder to the wheel convert words into seats and ultimately power?

From a purely negative party political point of view - I could be very cruel and say that it makes my position a lot easier - "vote Labour and get Fianna Fail" could be a very deliverable slogan in the next election - similar to "Vote FG and get the greens" by Fianna Fail that did untold damage to Fine Gael in rural areas in the last election , costing us up to 10 seats if you look at the numbers...

Then again - that is Labour's challenge - there are no seats or votes to be had off Fine Gael this time around - its the soft left populist/public sector vote that FF have had in their back pockets for the last 15 years that has to be Labours No 1 priority if they are to get in an asses roar of the Taoiseach's office next time around.

Which throws up some interesting questions............that Labour will have to answer sooner or later.

If they get that vote and push their numbers up into the late 30's - early 40's - who are they going to coalesce with next time around?.........Fine Gael are not the divided directionless feud riven shambles that they were 1992 and given even worse case scenarios are going have at least 60 seats... and the Taoiseachs office in any coalition

Will they consider going into coalition with a weakened 40+plus seats Fianna Fail if the offer was there and maybe the Taoiseachs office? .............might be very hard to resist......would have a much easier time of getting their "policies" through than with Fine Gael who will be looking for extensive reform and reductions in the Public service.....their front bench might see this as their last opportunity personally for power.................even tho it will **** off all the folks who voted for them to get FF out and give us a deja-vu of 97 all over again.

Or would they really really have the balls to make common ground with the rest of the left ( something that would be groundbreaking as the left in this country have historically had less time for their fellow socialists than anybody else) and refuse to enter office with either FF or FG -thus drawing a clear line in the sand and putting us into undiscovered territory - thus putting it up to the 2 of them to either enter gov together or call another election........which might result in Labour losing its moderate vote in the name of stability or might result in both FF losing even more ground and allowing Lab become the dominant left player in a left/right divide......a high risk move........you never know.

Just thinking out loud:)

Xray
18-04-2010, 10:54 PM
Are you taking the **** ?

Is Gilmore also taking the **** ?

One Ireland, a nation ? and not one mention of partition.

Infact he claims Labour stood aside 92 years ago so 'our country could be freed and made independent from a foriegn power'

I wasted 20 minutes of my life on that drivel.

WTF ?

Surely it can be one nation divided by a border, a nation is not a state.

1916 did not go out to set up the two states, but there is no way there would be any level of freedom if they did not go out.

Labour did have the SPLP leaders address them so it is not fair to suggest that their consideration of the country ended at the border. Given that FF have been kicked into touch by the SDLP I would not be surprised if you soon can vote Labour in your neck of the woods. We definitely need more all Ireland parties.

C. Flower
18-04-2010, 10:57 PM
He was dead right to rule out coalition with anybody - those are things you address when the dust settles and you count up the numbers.

A vote for an opportunist minority party is a vote wasted....Greens how are ye.



Personally - I thought that Gilmore's research team spent a bit of time on Fine Gaels website studying their policy documents and nicked a fair bit from there and the rest was back of the fag packet stuff


That might answer the question on which coalition they have in mind.


Or would they really really have the balls to make common ground with the rest of the left ( something that would be groundbreaking as the left in this country have historically had less time for their fellow socialists than anybody else) and refuse to enter office with either FF or FG -thus drawing a clear line in the sand and putting us into undiscovered territory - thus putting it up to the 2 of them to either enter gov together or call another election........which might result in Labour losing its moderate vote in the name of stability or might result in both FF losing even more ground and allowing Lab become the dominant left player in a left/right divide......a high risk move........you never know.

Gilmore repeatedly flirts with the notion that he intends to be Taoiseach. If he was serious he would, as you suggest, be out building his Party.

Xray
18-04-2010, 11:00 PM
Not really to be perfectly frank about it - I thought I called very fairly.

Conference speeches don't really have as much an impact as you might think - they are normally forgotten a week later unless something extremely dramatic or silly happens - Im delighted that it made an impression on you - are you going to take this enthusiasm further and put your shoulder to the wheel convert words into seats and ultimately power?

From a purely negative party political point of view - I could be very cruel and say that it makes my position a lot easier - "vote Labour and get Fianna Fail" could be a very deliverable slogan in the next election - similar to "Vote FG and get the greens" by Fianna Fail that did untold damage to Fine Gael in rural areas in the last election , costing us up to 10 seats if you look at the numbers...

Then again - that is Labour's challenge - there are no seats or votes to be had off Fine Gael this time around - its the soft left populist/public sector vote that FF have had in their back pockets for the last 15 years that has to be Labours No 1 priority if they are to get in an asses roar of the Taoiseach's office next time around.

Which throws up some interesting questions............that Labour will have to answer sooner or later.

If they get that vote and push their numbers up into the late 30's - early 40's - who are they going to coalesce with next time around?.........Fine Gael are not the divided directionless feud riven shambles that they were 1992 and given even worse case scenarios are going have at least 60 seats... and the Taoiseachs office in any coalition

Will they consider going into coalition with a weakened 40+plus seats Fianna Fail if the offer was there and maybe the Taoiseachs office? .............might be very hard to resist......would have a much easier time of getting their "policies" through than with Fine Gael who will be looking for extensive reform and reductions in the Public service.....their front bench might see this as their last opportunity personally for power.................even tho it will **** off all the folks who voted for them to get FF out and give us a deja-vu of 97 all over again.

Or would they really really have the balls to make common ground with the rest of the left ( something that would be groundbreaking as the left in this country have historically had less time for their fellow socialists than anybody else) and refuse to enter office with either FF or FG -thus drawing a clear line in the sand and putting us into undiscovered territory - thus putting it up to the 2 of them to either enter gov together or call another election........which might result in Labour losing its moderate vote in the name of stability or might result in both FF losing even more ground and allowing Lab become the dominant left player in a left/right divide......a high risk move........you never know.

Just thinking out loud:)


Well they need to go after the "soft left" in FF and take a few TDs and they need to make friends with the Greens and SF too. If they are serious about a real left wing government instead of FG they will do that. I can see a split in FF happening with the non neo-liberals going for Labour if they will have them. If Labour hook up with the SDLP it could change everything utterly.

C. Flower
18-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Gilmore's being interviewed on "The Week in Politics" - he says he wants a US style TV debate, pre-Election.

Sidewinder
19-04-2010, 01:03 AM
Labour have always been the most deeply, profoundly Partitionist of the southern parties. Look at that speech again - every single reference to Ireland, the Irish people, the Irish nation etc refers exclusively to the 26 counties. For Gilmore, "Ireland" == 26 counties, end of story.

I'd sooner vote for some raving Anglophile Empire-worshipping Blueshirt WestBrit than any wee sleekit beastie of a Labour politician. At least with the wilder bluer shores of FG you know what you are getting and it is out in the open. Labour, a dishonest sneaky party, and in more ways than this.

Sam Lord
19-04-2010, 05:32 AM
In coming up with the slogan they clearly forgot that they lived in a partitioned country. In Ireland "One Ireland' has an entirely different resonance than it would in just about anywhere else in the world. He was throwing out a vision of a country oragnised in the interests of it's people and not just a handful but ended up evoking something entirely different ...

They forgot partition!

They also forgot that labour is supposed to represent the working man and not "all Ireland". New labour I suppose....

There probably is a generous excuse for all this.. it is just not springing to lip at the moment.

ang
19-04-2010, 07:09 AM
Well I suppose good or bad the Eamon Gilmore speech has been a lot more thought provoking than what Enda Kenny and John Gormley had to say. That in itself is a good thing.

A lot of grandstanding going on and nothing very substantial to base policies on but a lot said that the public wanted to hear ie. jobs, financial crisis and a failure of the people in power to protect the country.

Xray
19-04-2010, 11:40 AM
At the end of the day some PR person probably came up with the term and it is meaningless anyway you look at it.

C. Flower
19-04-2010, 04:37 PM
In coming up with the slogan they clearly forgot that they lived in a partitioned country. In Ireland "One Ireland' has an entirely different resonance than it would in just about anywhere else in the world. He was throwing out a vision of a country oragnised in the interests of it's people and not just a handful but ended up evoking something entirely different ...

They forgot partition!

They also forgot that labour is supposed to represent the working man and not "all Ireland". New labour I suppose....

There probably is a generous excuse for all this.. it is just not springing to lip at the moment.


I'm not sure that there is. The only item on the agenda that referred to the North was a an item under International and European Affairs.

Garibaldy commented on CLR

(http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)


The Labour Party conference (http://www.labour.ie/conference2010/) had as its slogan One Ireland - jobs, reform, fairness. So interesting to see where the one (perfunctory) (http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)motion dealing with Northern Ireland (http://www.labour.ie/conference2010/motions/detail/127080388813236915/) was. International and European affairs. The Labour Party doesn’t do irony, but if it did… (http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)


(http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)
(http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)

Sam Lord
19-04-2010, 05:11 PM
I'm not sure that there is. The only item on the agenda that referred to the North was a an item under International and European Affairs.

Garibaldy commented on CLR

(http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)
(http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/one-ireland-apart-from-ni/)


Yes, they have no interest in the North. It didn't enter their mind when they put forward their slogan. The forgot about partition and how their slogan would resonate.

We will not hear it again.

But if you can forget something of the magnitude of that fact that your country is partitioned what else can you forget?

Sidewinder
19-04-2010, 06:02 PM
Labour are the party that gave us the Cruiser after all, and the ex-Stickie leadership of the party were best pals with that nutter Harris back in the 70s/80s. They've always been like that, but nobody likes to mention it.

Friends back when I was in UCD (early 90s) used to wonder why I had so much contempt for Labour when I was yer average secular socially-liberal center-left type. And then along came a debate one night when the Rabbitte refused to answer a perfectly innocuous and politely phrased question from me (yes, from me, I'm not always spitting fire and brimstone you know :p ) because I was a Nordie.

They never wondered again.

I wouldn't vote Labour in a fit, no way, no how.

C. Flower
19-04-2010, 06:06 PM
Labour are the party that gave us the Cruiser after all, and the ex-Stickie leadership of the party were best pals with that nutter Harris back in the 70s/80s. They've always been like that, but nobody likes to mention it.

Friends back when I was in UCD (early 90s) used to wonder why I had so much contempt for Labour when I was yer average secular socially-liberal center-left type. And then along came a debate one night when the Rabbitte refused to answer a perfectly innocuous and politely phrased question from me (yes, from me, I'm not always spitting fire and brimstone you know :p ) because I was a Nordie.

They never wondered again.

I wouldn't vote Labour in a fit, no way, no how.

There are a lot I wouldn't vote for.

BrendanGalway
19-04-2010, 09:49 PM
While not agreeing with the mode of expression, I can see that this is deeply infuriating to any republican/nationalist Irish person. At the same time, as a socialist (and supporter of national self determination), I'm infuriated with the idea that socialists should "stand aside" in favour of nationalism. Can anyone explain to me what Eamon Gilmore meant by this ?

There is no clear statement against outsourcing and privatisation.

Gilmore portrays the crisis as being caused by feckless individuals rather than a crisis of capitalism.



If true, the this is a Desperately disappointing path that a former Workers Party man it taking. Very reminiscent of New Labour and their Clause 4. It read " To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service" Very Socialist.

It was used in the aftermath of World War 2 to take a wide array of Industries and Companies into Public Ownership including Coal, Iron, Gas, Transport even a Bank. After Blair took over, he set about re-wording the clause to a vague piece of fluff under the guise of Modernizing the Party. We all know the path Labour took in Britain, becoming a champion of Neo-Liberal Capitalism and fought in its fair share of Middle eastern Wars.

Perhaps a large section of the Labour party feel that the Irish version also needs this modernising. Central to this is moving decisively away from a Red hue to a more Centrist, market-based party. You have already stated that Joan Burton, though a very capable politician and Public Speaker, is Right of center, economics wise. Not the person you want in a Left party, but very welcome in a "Modern" one.

Ah Well.

simonj
20-04-2010, 06:58 PM
Well, I would agree with him on a few things, such as a change - and swapping from one gang to the other will not achieve change.
Labour are virtually commited to coalition with FG, so it is not real change.
Labour ran no-one for Galway coco west, Gilmores homeland. Ireland ends at the bridge on the Corrib.

With this talk of a national investment bank, why dont they look at AN policy of linking this with the green economy?

He talks of natural resources, wind and wave energy but not a word about the situation with Shell and our natural resources.

I dont know what he means by right to read, our literacy rate is one of the best in the world.
He did not address the problem with the Trade Unions, the recent go-slow and the outsourcing of the Irish Ferries jobs.

Labour will not create sufficient change, having become FG lite in recent years.

The speech was pretty much based on the (admittedly brilliant) Barak Obama New Hampshire speech of Jan 8th 2008, but without the soaring oratry.
About the only phrase not used was Yes We Can as that would be to obvious.
One nation, one people, Old, Young etc.etc - right down to gay and straight - an issue I had hoped was a non-issue on the Island.
A persons sexuality I had hope has not been an issue since Maire GQ repealed Victorian laws years ago - but it could be an indication that the ex WP/DL leadership cadre want to run David Norris over M D Higgins who they failed to support in the last 2 Presidential elections.

Another issue we need to address is the fact that Dep. Gilmore is, like Dep. Rabitte, ex WP/DL.

From the speech, the closing term "Giving according to our means, recieving according to our needs" echoes other well known terminology - perhaps entered to bolster members who might veer in favour of Joe Higgins - "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" - Karl Marx, father of a failed beaurocratic system

Coming from a party that had something in the region of 6 seats, joining with Labour and becoming leaders of a party 3 or 4 times the size of their poitical origin means that both became crap kings of turd mountain.

C. Flower
27-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Dublin Diletantte made this - under the heading "One Ireland (For Them) ... and one for Us.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/302/gilmorefinal3.jpg