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Andrew49
25-01-2012, 04:42 PM
Research has for the first time been able to use brain imaging to link the lack of maternal attachment to depression.

Showing women a photo of their mother, and imaging their brains, consistently showed differences between those who were depressed and those who were not. There is no clear diagnosis for depression, and many slip under the medical radar with subtle symptoms of chronic fatigue. If doctors can find a brain imaging tool to reliably identify the disorder many might be helped. "Freud comes in to this," said psychiatrist Dr. Igor Galynker of Beth Israel Medical Center. "He blamed everything on the mother and it turns out the mother is absolutely the strongest gauge of depression you have."

Link to Story (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/depression-linked-insecure-maternal-attachment-study/story?id=15434349#.TyAudoHELTo)
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LINK to Study (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0027253)

Holly
25-01-2012, 04:55 PM
There are different types of depression with different causes. Contrary to this study's claim, clinical depression is not difficult to diagnose and the contention that it is all due to dysfunctional mothers makes no sense. For example, the highest rates of depression in the USA is found among adolescent boys and young men on Indian reservations. It is due to poverty, unemployment, and alcohol and nothing to do with mothers.

Griska
25-01-2012, 05:06 PM
There are different types of depression with different causes. Contrary to this study's claim, clinical depression is not difficult to diagnose and the contention that it is all due to dysfunctional mothers makes no sense. For example, the highest rates of depression in the USA is found among adolescent boys and young men on Indian reservations. It is due to poverty, unemployment, and alcohol and nothing to do with mothers.

American Indians and children of "dysfunctional" mothers would be examples of situational, or circumstantial depression.
Clinical depression is thought to be chemical based.
That said, the triggers that cause situational depression are also thought to be possible catalysts for clinical depression.

Holly
25-01-2012, 05:13 PM
American Indians and children of "dysfunctional" mothers would be examples of situational, or circumstantial depression.
Clinical depression is thought to be chemical based.
That said, the triggers that cause situational depression are also thought to be possible catalysts for clinical depression.
Erm ... not so, Griska. Clinical depression is distinguished from everyday usage of the word depression in that it meets specific diagnostic criteria. There is no diagnosis for what you term "situational" depression.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Clinical_depression

Griska
25-01-2012, 05:28 PM
Erm ... not so, Griska. Clinical depression is distinguished from everyday usage of the word depression in that it meets specific diagnostic criteria. There is no diagnosis for what you term "situational" depression.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Clinical_depression

Nope.
It can and is diagnosed as adjustment disorder with low, or depressive mood.
Diagnoses for all depressions revolve around factors such as duration of low mood, severity of impact on life, etc.

Holly
25-01-2012, 05:37 PM
Nope.
It can and is diagnosed as adjustment disorder with low, or depressive mood.
Diagnoses for all depressions revolve around factors such as duration of low mood, severity of impact on life, etc.
Can you provide the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) reference for the diagnosis of "situational depression"? I never heard of it.

Griska
25-01-2012, 06:00 PM
Can you provide the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) reference for the diagnosis of "situational depression"? I never heard of it.

DSM-IV 309.0

Adjustment disorder with depressed mood.

Holly
25-01-2012, 06:34 PM
DSM-IV 309.0

Adjustment disorder with depressed mood.

So, rather than a major depressive disorder (clinical depression), you are saying that Native American youths who have the highest rate of suicide in the USA due to the hopelessness of reservation life suffer from an adjustment disorder.

I would not concur since adjustment disorders are understood as relating to a significantly more difficult adjustment to a life situation than would normally be expected considering the circumstances. Young Native American males share the same difficulties to reservation life. Those who commit suicide or lack hope are too numerous and representative of their group to be considered as having significantly more difficulty than their peers.

To me, it looks like conditions on the reservations are so dreadful that these youths can rightly be understood to be suffering from clinical depression and it has nothing to do with their mothers.

Griska
25-01-2012, 07:00 PM
So, rather than a major depressive disorder (clinical depression), you are saying that Native American youths who have the highest rate of suicide in the USA due to the hopelessness of reservation life suffer from an adjustment disorder.

I would not concur since adjustment disorders are understood as relating to a significantly more difficult adjustment to a life situation than would normally be expected considering the circumstances. Young Native American males share the same difficulties to reservation life. Those who commit suicide or lack hope are too numerous and representative of their group to be considered as having significantly more difficulty than their peers.


The hopelessness of reservation life is a situation.



To me, it looks like conditions on the reservations are so dreadful that these youths can rightly be understood to be suffering from clinical depression and it has nothing to do with their mothers.

Clinical depression is thought to be passed genetically.

Holly
25-01-2012, 07:05 PM
The hopelessness of reservation life is a situation.
The response to it by the youth is too general for it to be an adjustment disorder.


Clinical depression is thought to be passed genetically.
I note your use of the word "thought".
I would not discount a genetic factor in all behavior.

Griska
25-01-2012, 07:24 PM
The response to it by the youth is too general for it to be an adjustment disorder.


Not really.
It would be a perfectly understandable reaction to the situation they find themselves in.



I note your use of the word "thought".
I would not discount a genetic factor in all behavior.

Nature vs nurture.
The debate that never stops giving:)

C. Flower
25-01-2012, 09:45 PM
Only 38 people in the study. I wouldn't put pass on it.

There was a laboratory study of baby monkeys: changes in the brains were found in those raised without mothers/in solitary confinement. There was an interim group, given a fake stuffed "mother" to cuddle, that had lesser brain damage.

Lovely. :(

Holly
26-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Not really.
It would be a perfectly understandable reaction to the situation they find themselves in. ...
To argue the point, Griska; if depression and suicide is a "perfectly understandable reaction to the situation" then it does not meet the criterion for an adjustment disorder that is characterized by marked distress that is in excess of what would be expected from exposure to the stressor
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/adjdis.htm

Since adjustment disorder is only given to someone who is having a hard time adjusting to a change in life, it would be inappropriate to apply it to someone experiencing stress from perpetual conditions such as an Indian reservation.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adjustment-disorders/ds00584

An adjustment disorder is characterized by the development of emotional or behavioral symptoms in response to an identifiable stressor (or stressors) occurring within 3 months of the onset of the stressor.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx6.htm

fluffybiscuits
26-01-2012, 02:09 PM
Research has for the first time been able to use brain imaging to link the lack of maternal attachment to depression.

Showing women a photo of their mother, and imaging their brains, consistently showed differences between those who were depressed and those who were not. There is no clear diagnosis for depression, and many slip under the medical radar with subtle symptoms of chronic fatigue. If doctors can find a brain imaging tool to reliably identify the disorder many might be helped. "Freud comes in to this," said psychiatrist Dr. Igor Galynker of Beth Israel Medical Center. "He blamed everything on the mother and it turns out the mother is absolutely the strongest gauge of depression you have."

Link to Story (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/depression-linked-insecure-maternal-attachment-study/story?id=15434349#.TyAudoHELTo)
- - - -
LINK to Study (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0027253)

Freud maintained that there was a very strong link between mother and child and that he maintained while there was a sexual element, this could be more or less a metaphor for describing that there is a very strong emotional attachment to our mothers. Leaving the womb and coming into the world we sever the umbilical chord and this means we sever a strong physical connection with our mother and until we leave the nest we are in a lot of cases mostly under their care. Finding our way in the world a lot of time means us leaving the nest but this bond remains one of the strongest. If these bonds are not forged properly and not maintained then this could lead to a very insecure person.

Depression thwarted one relationship I had (Not me) but its something that we do need to address in this country.

@Holly, just read that link about Adjustment disorder. That there adequately describes what our country is going through. A giant reaction to a series of events.

Griska
26-01-2012, 02:57 PM
To argue the point, Griska; if depression and suicide is a "perfectly understandable reaction to the situation" then it does not meet the criterion for an adjustment disorder that is characterized by marked distress that is in excess of what would be expected from exposure to the stressor
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/adjdis.htm

Since adjustment disorder is only given to someone who is having a hard time adjusting to a change in life, it would be inappropriate to apply it to someone experiencing stress from perpetual conditions such as an Indian reservation.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adjustment-disorders/ds00584

An adjustment disorder is characterized by the development of emotional or behavioral symptoms in response to an identifiable stressor (or stressors) occurring within 3 months of the onset of the stressor.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx6.htm

From the ICD 10:

States of subjective distress and emotional disturbance, usually interfering with social functioning and performance, arising in the period of adaptation to a significant life change or a stressful life event. The stressor may have affected the integrity of an individual's social network (bereavement, separation experiences) or the wider system of social supports and values (migration, refugee status), or represented a major developmental transition or crisis (going to school, becoming a parent, failure to attain a cherished personal goal, retirement). Individual predisposition or vulnerability plays an important role in the risk of occurrence and the shaping of the manifestations of adjustment disorders, but it is nevertheless assumed that the condition would not have arisen without the stressor. The manifestations vary and include depressed mood, anxiety or worry (or mixture of these), a feeling of inability to cope, plan ahead, or continue in the present situation, as well as some degree of disability in 9the performance of daily routine. Conduct disorders may be an associated feature, particularly in adolescents. The predominant feature may be a brief or prolonged depressive reaction, or a disturbance of other emotions and conduct.

Debates about mental health are fantastic, because nobody really can claim to be 100% correct. There is even a school of thought that depression is a completely learned behaviour.

Greengoddess
26-01-2012, 03:58 PM
Freud maintained that there was a very strong link between mother and child and that he maintained while there was a sexual element, this could be more or less a metaphor for describing that there is a very strong emotional attachment to our mothers. Leaving the womb and coming into the world we sever the umbilical chord and this means we sever a strong physical connection with our mother and until we leave the nest we are in a lot of cases mostly under their care. Finding our way in the world a lot of time means us leaving the nest but this bond remains one of the strongest. If these bonds are not forged properly and not maintained then this could lead to a very insecure person.

Depression thwarted one relationship I had (Not me) but its something that we do need to address in this country.

@Holly, just read that link about Adjustment disorder. That there adequately describes what our country is going through. A giant reaction to a series of events.
I tend to agree with this having been a psychoanalyst for 26 years. However " attachment " is very complicated and flower is right in that the size of the study is ridiculous. It makes me furious when we are given 'proof' from brain imaging studies of the existence and cause of something which has been known phenomenonlogically for a century. BTW, the DSM IV is highly questionable and is known to be replete with representatives from PHARMA. Go figure. Another sorry tale of corruption . Depression in its worst form is a terrible affliction which resembles almost a death-like state. Those readers who have experienced this will understand but almost no one else. Oddly enough it is not necessarily increasing these days. What is is pervasive feelings of anxiety and a lack of containment. The latter is a deep human need and is provided not only by parents but also by psychotherapists. It is the first thing we do.
It is also provided by governments.......
Are we succeeding at that? We are not the worst, I think. Even though it might not seem like it.

fluffybiscuits
26-01-2012, 04:03 PM
I tend to agree with this having been a psychoanalyst for 26 years. However " attachment " is very complicated and flower is right in that the size of the study is ridiculous. It makes me furious when we are given 'proof' from brain imaging studies of the existence and cause of something which has been known phenomenonlogically for a century. BTW, the DSM IV is highly questionable and is known to be replete with representatives from PHARMA. Go figure. Another sorry tale of corruption . Depression in its worst form is a terrible affliction which resembles almost a death-like state. Those readers who have experienced this will understand but almost no one else. Oddly enough it is not necessarily increasing these days. What is is pervasive feelings of anxiety and a lack of containment. The latter is a deep human need and is provided not only by parents but also by psychotherapists. It is the first thing we do.
It is also provided by governments.......
Are we succeeding at that? We are not the worst, I think. Even though it might not seem like it.

Good post. That containment is a feeling that we dont want to feel like we are in free fall. We need a safety harness of sorts to stop us from falling , this is usually reassurance from the government. If we say the government is the mother and the people are its children it makes my point a bit better :)

Griska
26-01-2012, 04:25 PM
I tend to agree with this having been a psychoanalyst for 26 years. However " attachment " is very complicated and flower is right in that the size of the study is ridiculous. It makes me furious when we are given 'proof' from brain imaging studies of the existence and cause of something which has been known phenomenonlogically for a century. BTW, the DSM IV is highly questionable and is known to be replete with representatives from PHARMA. Go figure. Another sorry tale of corruption . Depression in its worst form is a terrible affliction which resembles almost a death-like state. Those readers who have experienced this will understand but almost no one else. Oddly enough it is not necessarily increasing these days. What is is pervasive feelings of anxiety and a lack of containment. The latter is a deep human need and is provided not only by parents but also by psychotherapists. It is the first thing we do.
It is also provided by governments.......
Are we succeeding at that? We are not the worst, I think. Even though it might not seem like it.

DSM IV is indeed closely linked with PHARMA.
Personally, I find the idea of checklist diagnoses to be far from ideal.
Mental health problems are as varied and individual as the people who suffer from them.
While the DSM does give a nod to cultural and socio-economic differences, it does not, in my opinion, allow for differences in people's baseline behaviours.

fluffybiscuits
26-01-2012, 04:33 PM
DSM IV is indeed closely linked with PHARMA.
Personally, I find the idea of checklist diagnoses to be far from ideal.
Mental health problems are as varied and individual as the people who suffer from them.
While the DSM does give a nod to cultural and socio-economic differences, it does not, in my opinion, allow for differences in people's baseline behaviours.
It would itself though perhaps establish a baseline which could then be used as a standard. Im sure that a lot of conditions such as bi-polar etc are all carachterised by similar symptoms which could establish what a person is suffering from.