The Horse's Ass on the Saville Inquiry

[moss]

David Ford, the self proclaimed "back-end of a pantomime horse", in a leaked e mail to the british Liberal Democrat party has described the Saville Inquiry, into the events of Bloody Sunday and the murder of 14 civilians, as pointless.

This is the ass that is being tipped to become the P&J minister in stormont by May 2010.
From his crass comments he would surely have been just as suited to the post in January 1972.


In the email leaked to the BBC, entitled 'Northern Ireland Questions', Mr Ford states "Saville is pointless", adding in brackets and "so is any question on it".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8548288.stm

Pointless to ask any questions on the murder of 14 civilians ? Pointless to hold british crown forces in Ireland to account for their actions ?
It seems he is well suited to his new and upcoming post.

It's time this unionist party withered and died imo.

[5intheface]

He says he will still be the official opposition, only from inside the executive. Pointless indeed, pointless in deed.

[moss]

My thoughts exactly 5.
He has the audacity to call something/anything pointless. Never mind an inquiry into the murder of 14 people.
The Alliance should change their name to PUP. Pointless Unionist Party.

[C. Flower]

What has happened to the Saville Enquiry. Did it ever report ?

[moss]

What has happened to the Saville Enquiry. Did it ever report ?

After a few delays (I've lost count now) it is due to be published this month.
True to form it will be delivered to the british govt first before publication.
I have doubts the full report will be published after this. The families of the murdered are demanding that they recieve it at the same time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8489897.stm

[5intheface]

Anyone who doesn't know exactly what happened that day by now is either deluded or in a coma. All that remains is for the British Government to face up to the truth and rob certain Unionists of the little chink of doubt they continue to use as an excuse to cast aspersions on the dead.

[C. Flower]

I still have some questions. Matters of significant detail. Who ordered it, at the top, exactly what their strategy was and were there agents provocateurs in action on the day.

04/03/2010 - 09:29:53
The North's would-be Justice Minister pledged today to meet families of those bereaved at Bloody Sunday to explain why he called the inquiry into the killings “pointless”.

Alliance leader David Ford has been criticised by relatives of those shot dead by the British Army in Londonderry 38 years ago after a private email containing his views on the Saville Inquiry was leaked.

The South Antrim Assembly member said he would re-consider his choice of words if the families felt it necessary.

“If it becomes apparent that that particular word should be withdrawn, then I will certainly consider doing that,” he said.


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ford-to-meet-bloody-sunday-families-in-email-row-448623.html#ixzz0hCab0yZW (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ford-to-meet-bloody-sunday-families-in-email-row-448623.html#ixzz0hCab0yZW)

The cyncism is outstanding.

[moss]

Who ordered it ? As the cover up came from the top I'd say the orders came from the top, of the british govt. Also I believe the same paras where involved in the Ballymurphy massacre 5 months previously. So troops with a proven record of shooting unarmed civilians were moved to Derry for this march. http://www.ballymurphymassacre.com/

Srategy ? The british at the time thought they could squash resistance. This is a time of internment and a previous massacre. Also the bogside had a proven record of creating a no go area for crown forces. http://www.museumoffreederry.org/history-battle01.html
Through their use of loyalist gangs the british never stopped the targetting of civilians. They merely ulsterised this strategy

Agent provacatuer theory can only be believed here if you believe the claims of the british army that they were fired upon first. I dont believe any other eye witnesses reported that to be the case. Also the british are going to claim this as they had just killed 14 civilians (that they also labelled as gunmen or bombers)

Good site here for details. http://www.bloodysundaytrust.org/inquiry-back.html

As for the horse's ass and his statement today....breathtaking.

[5intheface]

Being inundated with DF texts today, ford for sale, good in middle of the road, slight damage at rear, only comes in yellow etc.

[Lapsedmethodist]

Being inundated with DF texts today, ford for sale, good in middle of the road, slight damage at rear, only comes in yellow etc.

You're going to need your sense of humour for when the Saville report is published. If by " pointless " Ford means "bland " then he's probably right. Unfortunately.

[5intheface]

You're going to need your sense of humour for when the Saville report is published. If by " pointless " Ford means "bland " then he's probably right. Unfortunately.

Don't doubt it LM, never was much prospect of getting to the nitty gritty.

[Lapsedmethodist]

Don't doubt it LM, never was much prospect of getting to the nitty gritty.

Nope... how are you, by the way ?:D

[5intheface]

Nope... how are you, by the way ?:D

Ticketyboo old boy, is that cousin of yours 'former wes' still plugging away on the dark side?

[C. Flower]

Be off with the two of you to the Sibin, to chew over old times. :cool::o

I suppose that means I'll have to build it.

[moss]

Being inundated with DF texts today, ford for sale, good in middle of the road, slight damage at rear, only comes in yellow etc.

:eek::D

[moss]

You're going to need your sense of humour for when the Saville report is published. If by " pointless " Ford means "bland " then he's probably right. Unfortunately.

I'd say ur right. Lets hope it surprises us.

[Lapsedmethodist]

Ticketyboo old boy, is that cousin of yours 'former wes' still plugging away on the dark side?

Alas yes. Bored, he tells me. Seems the site is beset with paranoia.:)

BTW do I recall you, or was it Moss, mentioning a Russian war film in which a cow was blown up(allegedly) ? If so what was the name of it ?

[Lapsedmethodist]

Be off with the two of you to the Sibin, to chew over old times. :cool::o

I suppose that means I'll have to build it.

You'll have to build a Sibin will you ? Mines a G & T w/ice & orange.:D

[mutley]

I still have some questions. Matters of significant detail. Who ordered it, at the top, exactly what their strategy was and were there agents provocateurs in action on the day.

04/03/2010 - 09:29:53
The North's would-be Justice Minister pledged today to meet families of those bereaved at Bloody Sunday to explain why he called the inquiry into the killings “pointless”.

Alliance leader David Ford has been criticised by relatives of those shot dead by the British Army in Londonderry 38 years ago after a private email containing his views on the Saville Inquiry was leaked.

The South Antrim Assembly member said he would re-consider his choice of words if the families felt it necessary.

“If it becomes apparent that that particular word should be withdrawn, then I will certainly consider doing that,” he said.


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ford-to-meet-bloody-sunday-families-in-email-row-448623.html#ixzz0hCab0yZW (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ford-to-meet-bloody-sunday-families-in-email-row-448623.html#ixzz0hCab0yZW)

The cyncism is outstanding.

Did this guy have a crystal ball?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/19/bloodysunday.northernireland


In a paper on 'Marches in 1972', dated 27 January, a senior Army planner in the North, Lt Col Harry Dalzell-Payne, tried to 'anticipate some of the problems we may face on Monday 31 Jan 72, if events on Sunday prove our worst fears'. He wrote: 'We must take stronger military measures which will inevitably lead to further accusations of "brutality and ill-treatment of non-violent demonstrators".'

The paper concludes: 'The only additional measure left for physical control is the use of firearms i.e. "Disperse or we fire". Inevitably, it would not be the gunmen who would be killed but "innocent members of the crowd". This would be tantamount to saying "all else has failed", and for this reason must be rejected except in extremis. It cannot, however, be ruled out. We must await the outcome of the events planned for the weekend of 29/30 Jan 72.'



The Government knew more than 25 years ago that it could not defend the shooting of a number of the men killed by British soldiers in Derry on Bloody Sunday, 30 January 1972.
A year after the shootings, the Ministry of Defence was advised by the then Attorney-General, Sir Peter Rawlinson, that the Crown would have 'no prospect of a successful defence' if actions for damages by the families of four of the victims went to court.

[5intheface]

Alas yes. Bored, he tells me. Seems the site is beset with paranoia.:)

BTW do I recall you, or was it Moss, mentioning a Russian war film in which a cow was blown up(allegedly) ? If so what was the name of it ?

Ermentrude? No I josh, must have been the bog. We better take this to an off topic thread before Cochrane Flower bans us both. Well maybe it was a Derry Cow, back on topic, see?

PS I'm now fascinated to know all about this exploding cow based movie.

[mutley]

You'll have to build a Sibin will you ? Mines a G & T w/ice & orange.:D

You should be of the drink for Lent! :D

[moss]

He keeps digging. It's now the SDLP that are upsetting the relatives of those who died.



But Mr Ford stressed that he had never been disparaging about the victims themselves. He also accused the SDLP of leaking the email to the BBC.
He said: "Is it insensitive to use an unfortunate, hastily written word in a private email or is it insensitive to make an issue of it to upset people four months later by making it public?"

A relatives view



Liam Wray, whose brother Jim was killed, said he would not meet the Alliance leader.
He added: "Let me tell Mr Ford that although I am not a great advocate of the inquiry, it certainly was not pointless - it certainly scored points.
"This inquiry exposed quite clearly the fraudulent forensics that damned my brother's and others' reputations."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8548714.stm

It's been reported though that he has met relatives of those killed.

[Cáthasaigh]

I believe that Bloody Sunday was a deliberate effort to refocus resistance from populist street action to elitist armed militarism which was easier to manage.

[C. Flower]

I believe that Bloody Sunday was a deliberate effort to refocus resistance from populist street action to elitist armed militarism which was easier to manage.

I suspect the same at an intuitive level, but I don't have evidence.

[Cáthasaigh]

I suspect the same at an intuitive level, but I don't have evidence.

It's one of those things that you will never be able to prove but it does tie in with the concepts of conflict and opposition management practised in Britain, the US and Europe in the late 60s and early 70s where state manipulation of violent radicalism stymied popular resistance and uprising. While this in itself is a somewhat simplistic and absolutist idea I still firmly believe that Bloody Sunday was a pre-medidated effort as part of the overall British strategy.

[5intheface]

It's one of those things that you will never be able to prove but it does tie in with the concepts of conflict and opposition management practised in Britain, the US and Europe in the late 60s and early 70s where state manipulation of violent radicalism stymied popular resistance and uprising. While this in itself is a somewhat simplistic and absolutist idea I still firmly believe that Bloody Sunday was a pre-medidated effort as part of the overall British strategy.

Premeditated it certainly was, how extensive the strategy was is debatable but I wouldn't be remotely surprised at anything. The almost entirely overlooked Ballymurphy massacre moss mentioned is the clearest evidence that it was certainly not a snatch raid which got out of hand. A gun battle was never even part of the scenario with anyone remotely interested in the truth.

[C. Flower]

Perhaps the key is in what happened in Malaysia or other British colonies.
Britain has hundreds of years experience of colonial control. The Americans appreciated that and have learned a lot from them.

[moss]

Perhaps the key is in what happened in Malaysia or other British colonies.
Britain has hundreds of years experience of colonial control. The Americans appreciated that and have learned a lot from them.

You're not wrong




In a memo addressed to the General Officer Commanding British Forces, Lt. Gen. Sir Harry Tuzo, and headed 'The situation in Londonderry as at 7th January 1972', the Commander of Land Forces in the North, General Robert Ford, expressed alarm at 'yobbo activity' by the 'Derry Young Hooligans'. He went on: 'I am coming to the conclusion that the minimum force necessary to achieve a restoration of law and order is to shoot selected ring leaders among the DYH, after clear warnings have been issued… In other words, we would be reverting to the methods of IS found successful on many occasions overseas.' ('IS' means 'internal security'.)

[C. Flower]

There you go...

Did anything new come out in the evidence given ?

[Cáthasaigh]

Perhaps the key is in what happened in Malaysia or other British colonies.
Britain has hundreds of years experience of colonial control. The Americans appreciated that and have learned a lot from them.

There is no need to look so far afield; Britain was defeated in Ireland in 1921 primarily through the resistance of the general populace; contignency plans were in place for a Dunkirk style evacuation from Dunlaoire as has been documented in recent years. Britain extricated herself through the corruption of a section of the IRA leadership and with the assistance of Catholic Church propaganda. 'The Wind That Shook The Barley' touches on this and represents the free state repression of humanisism with the liquidation of the Dublin Socialist.

The British army entered the north to save the Orange state from utter collapse. The people were again never allowed to realise their power and potential. The question now is will they ever?

[mutley]

There is no need to look so far afield; Britain was defeated in Ireland in 1921 primarily through the resistance of the general populace; contignency plans were in place for a Dunkirk style evacuation from Dunlaoire as has been documented in recent years. Britain extricated herself through the corruption of a section of the IRA leadership and with the assistance of Catholic Church propaganda. 'The Wind That Shook The Barley' touches on this and represents the free state repression of humanisism with the liquidation of the Dublin Socialist.

The British army entered the north to save the Orange state from utter collapse. The people were again never allowed to realise their power and potential. The question now is will they ever?

No. Our society is too self absorbed an individualistic now

[Cáthasaigh]

No. Our society is too self absorbed an individualistic now

I think the word that you were looking for was 'selfish'. I'm not a Nationalist, I'm an Internationalist and see the liberation of Ireland as a necessary prerequisite to global liberation. While Ireland remains physically, economically and idealogically enslaved there is little hope for humanity.

[mutley]

I think the word that you were looking for was 'selfish'. I'm not a Nationalist, I'm an Internationalist and see the liberation of Ireland as a necessary prerequisite to global liberation. While Ireland remains physically, economically and idealogically enslaved there is little hope for humanity.

Global liberation aint going to happen, marketing after the Depression in the US put paid to that. Once shopping became a hobby and not a means to getting stuff you needed, the dream of Global Liberation was gone.

The words I was looking for was Individualistic and self absorbed, the western world is full of little Narcissists and they are never going to come together for the greater good

[Cáthasaigh]

So you have given up on humanity?

[mutley]

So you have given up on humanity?

I still have time for you :D

[Cáthasaigh]

Not everyone has had the benefit of the life experience that I have had and the realisations that have come with it. Unfortunately most people of conscience are misdirected and nullified by their adherence to corrupt religious and party political dogmas. I still have hope in an awakening and will strive towards it.