Jon Venables back in prison

[Tony1975]

Jon Venebles, one of the perpetrators of the vicious torture and murder of toddler, Jamie Bulger, is back in prison after breaching the terms of his release.

There is no indication as to what Venebles might have done, but the British Home Secretary has told reporters that the information will be released "in due course"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/8546528.stm

[C. Flower]

Jon Venebles, one of the perpetrators of the vicious torture and murder of toddler, Jamie Bugler, is back in prison after breaching the terms of his release.

There is no indication as to what Venebles might have done, but the British Home Secretary has told reporters that the information will be released "in due course"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/8546528.stm

He was only 10 when he was involved in violently killing another child. We seem to find the idea of a child who kills particularly hard to deal with.
In Africa, small children have been used as soldiers for decades, and trained to kill.

I don't remember much about this case, except a vague recollection that one of the two boys was said to have come from an average family background but the other himself had not.

[Tony1975]

He was only 10 when he was involved in violently killing another child. We seem to find the idea of a child who kills particularly hard to deal with.
In Africa, small children have been used as soldiers for decades, and trained to kill.

I think that it is important to distinguish between children who are used as pawns by adults, acting under instruction, and children who perpetrate violence off their own backs.
Also, I don't think that this crime would be any less notorious if perpetrated by adults. Remember Brady/Hindley or Ian Huntley/Maxine Carr?


I don't remember much about this case, except a vague recollection that one of the two boys was said to have come from an average family background but the other himself had not.

The level of deviousness and violence in this murder was astonishing. As a father of an 18 month old boy now, it's physically sickening to me to reread some of the details.
From wikipedia:-

Facts established at trial show that, at this location, one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22-pound (10.0 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth. James suffered skull fractures as a result of the iron bar striking his head. However, Dr Alan Williams, the case's pathologist, speculated that James suffered so many injuries that none could be isolated as the fatal blow.

Before they left him, the boys laid Bulger across the railway tracks and weighted his head down with rubble, in hopes that a train would hit him and make his death appear an accident. After Bulger's killers left the scene, his body was cut in half by a train. Bulger's severed body was discovered two days later, on 14 February. A forensic pathologist testified that he had died before he was struck by the train.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger#The_crime

I am not sure if releasing these two was the right thing to do - I cannot remember my opinion at the time. Presumably they were totally different people to the boys who committed this crime. But, depending on the details that will emerge soon, maybe not.

[5intheface]

I find this a tough one. The natural thing is to think of your own children being attacked and say 'string 'em up'. So we deal with childkillers by killing children? I'd assume that the pair of boys must have been damaged greatly in some way to carry out such an offence and being put in a prison environment from the age of 10 to 18 is not going to normalise them. How they could adjust to anything approaching a normal life is beyond me. It was truly inevitable that they would end up inside again, just surprising it's taken so long. Maybe cases like this are different and some form of life sentence is all that's left, maybe with more privileges when they have a certain amount of time served. Stomping like blood lust lunatics ain't an option.

[5intheface]

Being reported that Venables was returned to jail following a serious sexual assault.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/bulger-killer-accused-of-sex-crime-448920.html

Warning: The story emenated from The Sun who claim they can go no further as it could reveal his new identity.


The link above describes some of what Venables has been up to since his release. Nightclub bouncer? Premiership match at Goodison? Pop concerts in Liverpool?

Would have thought he'd have been kept well away from Merseyside.

[evercloserunion]

The whole Bolger story is just so hard to wrap one's head around.

http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/media/images/j/jonvenables1993pa.jpg
Hardly the face of a torture-killer, or so you would think.

Has there ever been a proper psychological evaluation of these boys? I suppose there would have been at some point, but I would be very surprised if they were not, as suggested above, found to be badly damaged in some way. I was only two years old (same age as Bulger) when this murder happened so I never followed the story at the time. Did the children even show remorse in the aftermath of the crime?

Anyway, the fact that such a sicko is still up to no good is very serious, and hopefully he will now be put away for a very very long time. I'm shocked that he could be allowed to work as a nightclub bouncer.

[5intheface]

Unofficial talk from authorities seemed to suggest that of the two, Venables was the less likely to get in to trouble.

As far as I recall, the case was like no other because of the highly charged emotions around Liverpool and the authorities being bound to protect the pair.

Agree with your point and mentioned it above, they had to be severely damaged to carry out such a prolonged attack. Sad and I feel very sorry for them and the waste of their lives.

That said, they did it, are unlikely to be capable of any profound rehabilitation so keep them where they will be of no threat to the public. It doesn't have to be hard labour.

[Andrew49]

Unofficial talk from authorities seemed to suggest that of the two, Venables was the less likely to get in to trouble.

As far as I recall, the case was like no other because of the highly charged emotions around Liverpool and the authorities being bound to protect the pair.

Agree with your point and mentioned it above, they had to be severely damaged to carry out such a prolonged attack. Sad and I feel very sorry for them and the waste of their lives.

That said, they did it, are unlikely to be capable of any profound rehabilitation so keep them where they will be of no threat to the public. It doesn't have to be hard labour.

Totally agree.

[imokyrok]

The whole Bolger story is just so hard to wrap one's head around.

http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/media/images/j/jonvenables1993pa.jpg
Hardly the face of a torture-killer, or so you would think.

Has there ever been a proper psychological evaluation of these boys? I suppose there would have been at some point, but I would be very surprised if they were not, as suggested above, found to be badly damaged in some way. I was only two years old (same age as Bulger) when this murder happened so I never followed the story at the time. Did the children even show remorse in the aftermath of the crime?

Anyway, the fact that such a sicko is still up to no good is very serious, and hopefully he will now be put away for a very very long time. I'm shocked that he could be allowed to work as a nightclub bouncer.

One of the children was as cool as a cucumber and the other was distraught. The former apparently was the instigator and the latter went along with it. I think Venables was the follower- I read something about it a couple of days ago but I couldn't be sure about that. Someone was saying that the parole conditions are very strict so he may not have necessarily committed another heinous crime. I guess we hear soon enough.

Edit: I just spotted 5intheface said it was a serious sexual assault. So obviously rehab failed in this guys case.

[Almanac]

One of the children was as cool as a cucumber and the other was distraught. The former apparently was the instigator and the latter went along with it. I think Venables was the follower- I read something about it a couple of days ago but I couldn't be sure about that. Someone was saying that the parole conditions are very strict so he may not have necessarily committed another heinous crime. I guess we hear soon enough.

Edit: I just spotted 5intheface said it was a serious sexual assault. So obviously rehab failed in this guys case.

Venables was the leader. He came up with the plan.

One of the investigating guards came to the conclusion that the two boys were just "pure evil".

Behind all the psychobabble, I suspect that's the real explanation.

The fact that they have received such ridiculous service from the state is perverse.

[Andrew49]

John (Jon) Venables, the killer of British toddler James Bulger, has been charged with downloading child pornography. The development comes after a judge at London's Old Bailey court lifted some of the media restrictions on the case.

Venables was found guilty along with Robert Thompson of murdering the two-year-old Bulger in 1993. The pair were both 10-years-old when the youngster was abducted, tortured and killed in Liverpool, northwest England. Venables was released from jail in 2001 and given a new identity and anonymity for life. But he was recalled to prison in February after allegedly breaching the terms of his release.

He now faces one charge of making 57 indecent images of children on his computer. Venables has also been charged with distributing seven indecent images of children.

SOURCE (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/killer-of-british-toddler-james-bulger-charged-over-child-porn/story-e6frfku0-1225882526538)

[Murra]

I believe they were detained in a children's detention centre, more like an industrial school than a prison, I imagine. I also imagine they received every conceivable therapeutic intervention possible while in custody. Unfortunately, whatever damage was done to them in early childhood could not be fully undone. Another sad and sorry waste of a life.

[C. Flower]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/07/article-1256190-089BD4D3000005DC-514_634x343.jpg

This drawing was done by Venables shortly before he killed James Bulger. It was drawn after watching the film "Halloween" at his father's house. The Mail said that he was beaten by his mother and regularly watched violent material at his fathers' house.

[Tony1975]

This should be curtains for Venebles. He's had his second chance and he's blown it. I don't think anyone could reasonably say that, if ever again released, he would not pose an unacceptably high risk to children.

P.s.
I just overheard on Newstalk that he is to be tried as Jon Venebles, not under his new name. I'm not sure if that means that his new identity is to be scrapped, or whether he is to retain it and still remain anonymous.