Irish Water Charges to Start at 250.00 - 400 euro per year for each Household

[C. Flower]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1227/1224309523321.html?cmpid=lunchtime-digest&utm_source=lunchtime-digest&utm_medium=email

The Irish Times is reporting that "sources" say water charges will be introduced, based on usage, by 2014, at rates of around €250.00 - 400.00 per household each year.

Installation of meters will be a large and expensive operation, but would be essential if water supplies are to be privatised and run for private profit, as usually required by the IMF.

This charge will be in addition to the property tax/household charge.


It was hoped to have meters installed in “the vast majority of houses” by the end of 2014. Contracts for metering would be issued “early in the new year”. Self-installation by residents was not under consideration.

Mr Hogan told The Irish Times : “The principle is agreed, that we’re going down this road, but we haven’t set out the detail of how we’re going to implement it – that will be done by the middle of February.”

He noted water charges by meter were included in the EU-International Monetary Fund bailout agreement, but his party had been “ahead of the posse” even when in opposition by undertaking to “bring it all together under one particular entity”.

The Minister added that it was “a bit like setting up the ESB all over again for an essential natural resource”. He added: “All residential properties will be metered by 2015 at the latest, and we’ll start the process . . . in autumn of 2012.”

The Minister said: “In 2012 we’ll start to roll out the contracts. The details of how we’re going to do that we’ll announce in January.” There would be some “site investigation work” in the next few months and issues relating to installation of the meters would be established.

[smiles]

Do you think they will try to capitalise on rain water harvesting? Which is what I fully intend to have up and running in the near future :)

[TotalMayhem]

Do you think they will try to capitalise on rain water harvesting? Which is what I fully intend to have up and running in the near future :)

Hard luck: In Ireland, all rainwater harvesting tanks require planning permission and such permissions will simply no longer be granted. Their way of banning rainwater harvesting. Think you can cheat on your debt collector? Think again. :D

[smiles]

Hard luck: In Ireland, all rainwater harvesting tanks require planning permission and such permissions will simply no longer be granted. Their way of banning rainwater harvesting. Think you can cheat on your debt collector? Think again. :D

Is that not just for visible tanks? Will check it out anyhow and if so will be forced to use plan b :)

[TotalMayhem]

Is that not just for visible tanks?

According to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, all rainwater harvesting tanks require planning permission.

You don't need permission for rainwater harvesting, but they just won't grant anymore planning permissions for the tanks unless you have no other option.


Will check it out anyhow and if so will be forced to use plan b :)

Plan B? Don't get caught! :D

[antiestablishmentarian]

Do you think they will try to capitalise on rain water harvesting? Which is what I fully intend to have up and running in the near future :)
If I remember correctly people in Bolivia were jailed for doing that during their water war with Bechtel in Cochabamba. I think it was for cheating the multinational or some such thing. Given that Ireland puts Bolivia to shame in the Banana Republic league table, I'm pretty sure they'll do the same thing here or something similar. This is all about eroding public services and 'rolling back the state', ie forcibly transferring state infrastructure to private hands for the profit of its new owners.

[TotalMayhem]

Some US states have already criminalised water harvesting.

[Baron von Biffo]

Hard luck: In Ireland, all rainwater harvesting tanks require planning permission

Are you sure that that's the case? The Dept of Agriculture suggests that it is but I get the impression that it's referring to systems for agricultural use - Why would Ag be concerned with water harvesting in D4?

This company (http://www.rainharvesting.ie/) provides domestic systems and claims that planning permission isn't required, though the wording isn't a model of clarity.

This business (http://www.jfc.ie/DomesticRainwaterHarvesting.html) hints that, far from prohibiting harvesting systems, planning laws may yet mandate them to mitigate the effects of shortages and/or flooding.

[TotalMayhem]

Here is what I'm sure of, there will be an explicit ban of water harvesting issued very soon, probably in the guise of health and safety concerns. Mark my words...

[TotalMayhem]

This company (http://www.rainharvesting.ie/) provides domestic systems and claims that planning permission isn't required, though the wording isn't a model of clarity.

On the contrary, they are very clear:

http://i.imgur.com/YM3e6.png

General building regulations have to be observed.

[riposte]

Here is what I'm sure of, there will be an explicit ban of water harvesting issued very soon, probably in the guise of health and safety concerns. Mark my words...

I've just marked them .... 10% .... sorry.:)

[Dr. FIVE]

Some US states have already criminalised water harvesting.

Standard IMF practice where ever they roam

[C. Flower]

Standard IMF practice where ever they roam

A good wiki entry -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_privatization

The impact overall has been more expensive water, with on average no improvement in efficiency.

[C. Flower]

Hard luck: In Ireland, all rainwater harvesting tanks require planning permission and such permissions will simply no longer be granted. Their way of banning rainwater harvesting. Think you can cheat on your debt collector? Think again. :D

Any link?

There seem to be grants for farmers to do this

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/farmbuildings/rainwaterharvestingscheme/

[TotalMayhem]

Any link?

There is a link for a document from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Just google this:


rainwater tanks planning permission ireland

go to the sixth link from the top:

http://i.imgur.com/qWEv9.jpg

Download the document or use Quick View.

[morticia]

can't comment on the rainwater harvesting, but I know a fair few farmers with wells... in some parts, they're needed to keep the cattle watered in a dry summer. Cows drink a LOT.

They'll have to do something for the ag sector. Mind you, this is Ireland, I suspect lots of blind eyes will be turned...providing enough wonga is made from the suburbanites.

Re the estimated level of charge, i paid 45 yoyos sterling per month for water in Wales, probably worked out at over £500 per annum, and that was back in 2006.

[TotalMayhem]

They'll have to do something for the ag sector.

You reckon? Let the farmers add 50 cents on a litre milk, more tax and VAT intake too, a win win situation. :D

[Baron von Biffo]

On the contrary, they are very clear:

http://i.imgur.com/YM3e6.png

General building regulations have to be observed.

Which could mean that there are regulations that impact on water harvesting buy they're not specific to it.

It might be a bit like the pledge that Quinn signed on 3rd level fees during the GE in that it could allow the unwary to hear what they want to hear only to be disappointed later while the company can't be said to have been dishonest.

[Baron von Biffo]

You reckon? Let the farmers add 50 cents on a litre milk, more tax and VAT intake too, a win win situation. :D

If the farmers add 50c, the distributors will add €1.00 and the retailers will slap on their cut as well.

We're actually paying too little for food at the checkout but it's not the farmers who are getting the best of the price.

[BARNEYKX]

What next charges to let the children paddle in the sea

[TotalMayhem]

What next charges to let the children paddle in the sea

Hush, don't give them ideas! ;)

[Baron von Biffo]

What next charges to let the children paddle in the sea

You've skipped a stage. First a charge for children then a charge for the sea.

[BARNEYKX]

you've skipped a stage. First a charge for children then a charge for the sea.


nothing would surprise me now, probably a tax on umbrellas next

[Seán Ryan]

The monkeys in government can go hump themselves and can bring their IMF buddies along for the ride.

When Irish water is fully pollutant free and conforms to the European Water Framework Directive (specifically the 'polluter pays' section) there might be some room for these gimps to have the audacity to bring the subject up. Even then, they'll be told to go molest themselves. And the person who tries to install a meter in my home will require an armed escort, provided that a court hasn't ordered that I be locked up to provide access. Even then, they'd better provide that I do not regain access to my home, to rip it out (will provide a nice paradox for the courts to manifest an embolism with).

Most, the vast majority of villages, towns and cities in Ireland have sewer systems that are centuries old, that our allegedly nationalistic government didn't provide in the first place, and they are woefully inadequate to serve the needs of today.

Nearly half of all water used, is lost via a shíte or non-existent infrastructure, before it ever reaches your home. And I might add that the added shít content is totally unacceptable too.

In short, piss off Enda and **** you Gilmore. Come ask me for it personally...

[TotalMayhem]

The monkeys in government can go hump themselves and can bring their IMF buddies along for the ride.

They'll probably enjoy that, I'd rather see them treated after the manner of Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, the celebrated "impaler". (to quote JHK (http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/12/a-christmas-carol-2011.html))

[antiestablishmentarian]

can't comment on the rainwater harvesting, but I know a fair few farmers with wells... in some parts, they're needed to keep the cattle watered in a dry summer. Cows drink a LOT.

They'll have to do something for the ag sector. Mind you, this is Ireland, I suspect lots of blind eyes will be turned...providing enough wonga is made from the suburbanites.

Re the estimated level of charge, i paid 45 yoyos sterling per month for water in Wales, probably worked out at over £500 per annum, and that was back in 2006.

Farmers already pay water charges. I know where my family is the price has steadily risen year on year since they came in, and the supply was turned over to a private company. That's an 'experimental' example of how it will progress once these charges are introduced.

[barrym]

.... a bit that I don't think CF quoted from the report in the OP was a poorly constructed phrase about minimum fees and the amount you may be allowed to use without paying -

"Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan is believed to be firmly set on establishing a level of water consumption at which no charge at all would apply. The department, however, could not as yet indicate what this level would be."

If you have rainwater harvesting and mains supply you might well be able to keep your consumption below the minimum. Of course, they'll be watching that and reduce the allowance, won't they?

I've asked before on these sorts of questions, where are the overall sums? How much will metering cost and over what period of time will it be amortised?? Will there be in the legislation for the new all singing all dancing authority a requirement to calculate how much waste they have saved each year by repairing the mains?? Will there f...

[C. Flower]

Basically, it is about privatisation and about having profit made from what is currently a public asset.

Enda Kenny has chosen today to tell us that water charges are unavoidable and will be with us soon.

And a happy new year to you, too, Enda.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-warns-of-water-charges-534143.html

[BARNEYKX]

All my water comes from a well ,how can this effect me

[Baron von Biffo]

All my water comes from a well ,how can this effect me

Your income tax wont have to be increased to pay for my water which comes from the public mains.

[PaddyJoe]

I'm not clear on whether this water charge will apply to people with their own well. I assume not but I don't remember seeing any details to confirm it.

[Apjp]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1227/1224309523321.html?cmpid=lunchtime-digest&utm_source=lunchtime-digest&utm_medium=email

The Irish Times is reporting that "sources" say water charges will be introduced, based on usage, by 2014, at rates of around €250.00 - 400.00 per household each year.

Installation of meters will be a large and expensive operation, but would be essential if water supplies are to be privatised and run for private profit, as usually required by the IMF.

This charge will be in addition to the property tax/household charge.

The likes of me da and much of me family would simply be unable to pay. What a farce-that people should be charged for water on an island. I bet none of the elites in power will have to pay it.

[TotalMayhem]

I'm not clear on whether this water charge will apply to people with their own well. I assume not but I don't remember seeing any details to confirm it.

Well, they will still have to pay the housegold charge... or do you believe such boIIocks as "temporary" and "interim" in connection with taxes?

[Apjp]

Well, they will still have to pay the housegold charge... or do you believe such boIIocks as "temporary" and "interim" in connection with taxes?

Bolloxology as me auld boss used to call it.