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View Full Version : Ruairi Quinn to renege on his promise not to reintroduce college fees?



antiestablishmentarian
16-11-2011, 03:42 AM
Quinn was vociferous in his opposition to third level fees two years ago when it seemed as if FF/GP would introduce them http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1237545053259310.html. He addressed a march of 10,000 students saying they would not be introduced by Labour in government, and any fee would be reversed. He also signed a pledge before the election, promising not to reintroduce them. However, he seems to have reversed this in recent times. Yesterday, when asked to restate his pledge, he refused to do so, fuelling speculation that the government will go after students in the upcoming budget. They have already gone after Post-Grads, eliminating grants for them, and now seem poised to do away with free fees altogether. All I can say is, if they do go ahead with this, Labour have no business calling themselves a party of the left, and they should disband and merge with Fine Gael. Left of Labour TDs like Patrick Nulty, Joanna Tuffy and Tommy Broughan should resign if they have any integrity on this matter, as should Quinn and the rest of the Labour PP like Gilmore, although as the cabinet leadership has no shame I think this unlikely.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking54.html

Fraxinus
16-11-2011, 08:10 PM
This could be the begining of the end of the Labour party. Quinn and Gilmore are being shown up for the IMF tomspoofery puppets they really are.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
16-11-2011, 08:14 PM
I keep saying- confiscate all church assets and there's your education budget. Compulsory purchase of all school buildings for 1 Punt and tell Sean Brady to learn how to play the spoons for his dinner tomorrow.

*Turns off hidden agenda machine*

C. Flower
16-11-2011, 08:14 PM
The USI had two big screens mounted on vans outside Leinster House, showing Quinn signing his promise.

:D

Good, noisy protest today, but not the numbers who came out last year.

A lot of banners about unemployment, emigration, the dole, broken promises.

culmore
16-11-2011, 08:15 PM
what part of The country is Broke dont people understand. There is no money there for anything. Except the top chosen few and political pensioners

DCon
16-11-2011, 08:24 PM
I'm still confused about the suggestion that Gilmore might resign...

Gilmore needs a full pension before he goes anywhere

He needs it as he likes to drink Cristal while reading Das Kapital. He could never forego the Cristal

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Louis_Roederer_Cristal_Champagne.jpg/267px-Louis_Roederer_Cristal_Champagne.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Kapital_titel_bd1.png/220px-Kapital_titel_bd1.png

Baron von Biffo
16-11-2011, 11:19 PM
Anyone have a link to the wording of the pledge?

DCon
16-11-2011, 11:26 PM
Anyone have a link to the wording of the pledge?


I, Ruairi Quinn, Education Spokesperson for the Labour Party hereby pledge that if elected, we will oppose and campaign against any new form of third level fees including student loans, graduate taxes and any further increase in the Student Contribution.



Furthermore, we pledge to use our position in Dáil Éireann to protect the Higher Education Maintenance Grant from any and all cuts. This Grant is often the only source of funding students have to support their studies.

If the State and the Government are to truly cherish all the children of the country equally, then this Grant must be supported and we will not support any Government that fails in this regard.”




On February 21st, during the final week of campaigning in Election 2011 then Labour Party Spokesperson on Education and current Education Minister Ruairí Quinn publically signed a USI pledge on behalf of the Labour Party stating


The following day (February 22nd) party leader and current Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore TD also signed the pledge, publically re-affirming the Labour Party’s commitment on 3rd level fees.

http://www.itssu.ie/category/news/

Baron von Biffo
16-11-2011, 11:28 PM
http://www.itssu.ie/category/news/

Thanks for that.

It's not as unequivocal as reports indicated. Plenty of wriggle room there for Quinn.

antiestablishmentarian
17-11-2011, 07:39 AM
Thanks for that.

It's not as unequivocal as reports indicated. Plenty of wriggle room there for Quinn.
Not really: they're pledged to oppose and campaign against all new increases and to protect the grant at all costs, to the point of not supporting a government that cuts it. As unequivocal as it gets if you ask me.

Holly
17-11-2011, 10:14 AM
Quinn is exposed as a mendacious politician and he does not have the integrity to resign his plum job.

Baron von Biffo
17-11-2011, 10:17 AM
Not really: they're pledged to oppose and campaign against all new increases and to protect the grant at all costs, to the point of not supporting a government that cuts it. As unequivocal as it gets if you ask me.

Not quite. There's a difference between saying 'We will not' and 'We will oppose'. One can oppose a thing up to the point where it becomes clear that continued opposition will not bear fruit. Had the pledge said the former I doubt Quinn would have signed it.

Politically it wont make a blind bit of difference to Lab as they're going to take a hit on it but it repeats the lesson to voters that we should pay very close attention to the words politicians use.

Holly
17-11-2011, 10:20 AM
Not quite. There's a difference between saying 'We will not' and 'We will oppose'. ...

Only to someone who is not a native English speaker.

DCon
17-11-2011, 10:31 AM
Not quite. There's a difference between saying 'We will not' and 'We will oppose'. One can oppose a thing up to the point where it becomes clear that continued opposition will not bear fruit. Had the pledge said the former I doubt Quinn would have signed it.

Politically it wont make a blind bit of difference to Lab as they're going to take a hit on it but it repeats the lesson to voters that we should pay very close attention to the words politicians use.

How clever of FG to give Education to Labour after Gilmore and Quinn had signed this pledge..

Apjp
17-11-2011, 03:32 PM
Quinn was vociferous in his opposition to third level fees two years ago when it seemed as if FF/GP would introduce them http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1237545053259310.html. He addressed a march of 10,000 students saying they would not be introduced by Labour in government, and any fee would be reversed. He also signed a pledge before the election, promising not to reintroduce them. However, he seems to have reversed this in recent times. Yesterday, when asked to restate his pledge, he refused to do so, fuelling speculation that the government will go after students in the upcoming budget. They have already gone after Post-Grads, eliminating grants for them, and now seem poised to do away with free fees altogether. All I can say is, if they do go ahead with this, Labour have no business calling themselves a party of the left, and they should disband and merge with Fine Gael. Left of Labour TDs like Patrick Nulty, Joanna Tuffy and Tommy Broughan should resign if they have any integrity on this matter, as should Quinn and the rest of the Labour PP like Gilmore, although as the cabinet leadership has no shame I think this unlikely.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking54.html

I think those 3 tds will resign and join the technical group which will be a welcome blow for this govt which is sure to lose a few tds this xmas. Having already lost 2, the more pressure people put on their local Labour TDs the harder it will be in the medium term for them not to resign. Resignations should be a target of angry impoverished constituents. We need to bring this shower down asap. Dont forget Student grants for Undergrads have been cut by 70 percent. The scrapping of postgrads makes emigration even earlier for graduates.

Apjp
17-11-2011, 03:37 PM
http://www.itssu.ie/category/news/

The grant bit says it all too. It was stupid how they went after both sections of the student classes, middle and poor. They have sowed the seeds for a united resistance which is quickly gaining momentum in FEE and Occupy University off of Dame street. A smart govt would have hiked fees dramatically or just done away with grants, dividing the students. Gravediggers indeed.

Apjp
17-11-2011, 03:39 PM
Only to someone who is not a native English speaker.

agreeing more and more with yer anecdotes lately. Baron just give up already. They conned the people, but you cant keep blaming the people who voted for Labour. Many were convinced of the promises in good faith. Im sure there wont be a Labour party in a few years.

Beacon
17-11-2011, 05:13 PM
agreeing more and more with yer anecdotes lately. Baron just give up already. They conned the people, but you cant keep blaming the people who voted for Labour. Many were convinced of the promises in good faith. Im sure there wont be a Labour party in a few years.

The hike in fees or doing away with grants wont makea jot of difference to the "socilist" solicalites of the smoked salmon sector. I do not think quazi Labour when it suits her to have a free campaign Senator Bacik and other Trinity or UCD so called "lefties" will have any worries unless the wine or caviar budget is cut in the common room or God forbid ( and we should not mention God to the the atheistic element either who invariably went to and send their own kids to private fee paying religious schools while campaigning for no God in school) someone actually cuts their 100k a year lecturer salary when they are picking up another 80 k in the senate. I wonderif they also claim child allowance? :)

Anyway how a few students vote make little or no difference to the comfortable elite Labour people. No smoke without salmon. They probably figure the fickle students will only float on to other shores or wont vote or will vote all over the place and not for Labour anyway. Promises and principles have little to do with the issue. When will you ever hear from a Labour representative what they are going to cut and what they are going to tax more? The think is they will have to say both for the first time come the budget. They can't blame it on "others" anymore. They have one element on their side. Their majority is so large they can boot out anyone who doesn't toe the party line so expect Bacik and others not to squeak very loud as they might end up having to pay for their next campaign themselves.

Dr. FIVE
17-11-2011, 06:04 PM
USI blocking it's own members from joining the main demo

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/308149_287438024621810_100000668432030_907229_9002 5510_n.jpg

Baron von Biffo
17-11-2011, 07:44 PM
Only to someone who is not a native English speaker.

That's part of the problem. As native speakers we're too casual about how we interpret formal language.

Baron von Biffo
17-11-2011, 07:46 PM
How clever of FG to give Education to Labour after Gilmore and Quinn had signed this pledge..

It's usually regarded as a bad idea to appoint someone as minister to the department they marked while in opposition. Too many hostages to fortune littering the place for comfort.

Baron von Biffo
17-11-2011, 07:49 PM
Baron just give up already.

If you have a point to make about something I posted it would be good manners to respond to that post rather than making silly comments in a reply to someone else.

Holly
17-11-2011, 10:14 PM
That's part of the problem. As native speakers we're too casual about how we interpret formal language.
Politicians do not need interpreters when making populist promises to the electorate before an election. We all know what they mean just as we are clear about someone attempting to weasel out of a campaign promise on the grounds that the people are too thick to deal with nuances.

Baron von Biffo
17-11-2011, 10:17 PM
Politicians do not need interpreters when making populist promises to the electorate before an election. We all know what they mean just as we are clear about someone attempting to weasel out of a campaign promise on the grounds that the people are too thick to deal with nuances.

We have a duty as citizens of a democracy to be vigilant. If we're too lazy or too thick to examine the nuances then we'll pay a price for it.

Holly
17-11-2011, 10:38 PM
We have a duty as citizens of a democracy to be vigilant. If we're too lazy or too thick to examine the nuances then we'll pay a price for it.
We are vigilant enough to know mendacity in the guise clarification of a misunderstanding when we see it.

C. Flower
17-11-2011, 11:39 PM
USI blocking it's own members from joining the main demo

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/308149_287438024621810_100000668432030_907229_9002 5510_n.jpg

Where was that FIVE ? I was with the demonstration for a good part of it, including Merrion Square.

It was heavily stewarded by USI stewards who were very anxious to make sure nothing "untoward" happened. A bit reminiscent in a much quieter mode of the PAME vs the rest line up in Greece.

But I didn't see anyone kept out of the march.

There was similar heavy handed stewarding in the last big ICTU demonstration.

Dr. FIVE
18-11-2011, 07:50 PM
http://a0.img.mobypicture.com/2cbc1ca7064bf807284f60182cca2930_view.jpg

Dr. FIVE
18-11-2011, 07:54 PM
Cass

That was here. USI and Garda blocking FEE


http://www.wsm.ie/c/students-demonstrating-dublin-education-cuts-usi-betrayal