Is Ireland a little England?

[fluffybiscuits]

Reading any newspaper in Ireland, Im pretty sure a lot of the news concerns the happenings in our nearest neighbour across the water. Coverage of X Factor was making the headlines as one singer was allegedly a coke head and the sports pages are filled with the latest going on in the Premiership. Talk around the breakfast table turns to Coronation St and Eastenders. The sheer apathy a lot of Irelands younger generation has to the world around them and the issues they face is galling, especially as they seem more interested in the latest going on's of our counterparts. The xenophobia that once gripped areas like Bradford and Leicster and spread to the UK that is now prevalent is now widespread here, we are no longer the island of a "thousand welcomes!"

Is Ireland becoming a little England?

[Holly]

We are culturally close to England but people in Portadown are no more in Little England than the citizens of Port Talbot or Prestwick.

[Dr. FIVE]

hmmm. I don't think so tbh. You're seeing it on the front page of Oirish red tops don't forget. BBC was once a blessing but increasingly less so theses days. Reality bollox is a worldwide plague. If it wasn't xfactor it would be something else and that concept was imported into England in the first place via Holland/US.

We never needed to import their xenophobia. We've always done just fine in that regard and a thousand welcomes was a front to fleece Americans for whatever we could.
The UK have bits of us we have bits of them

[fluffybiscuits]

hmmm. I don't think so tbh. You're seeing it on the front page of Oirish red tops don't forget. BBC was once a blessing but increasingly less so theses days. Reality bollox is a worldwide plague. If it wasn't xfactor it would be something else and that concept was imported into England in the first place via Holland/US.

We never needed to import their xenophobia. We've always done just fine in that regard and a thousand welcomes was a front to fleece Americans for whatever we could.
The UK have bits of us we have bits of them

We are not as susceptible to American influence as much as we are British influence. Part of me would not be surprised if some of the people in Republican movement themselves whom reject what they regard as a much maligned British society actually follow English teams and have subcincously absorbed some aspects of British culture themselves to the point where they are as much British as the British themselves.

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2011/1015/1224305790754.html

Coincidence! I came across this!

[Dr. FIVE]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00702/sport-graphics-2007_702030a.jpg

There you go.

The xfactor thing is just in solidarity with Louis Walsh

[fluffybiscuits]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00702/sport-graphics-2007_702030a.jpg

There you go.

The xfactor thing is just in solidarity with Louis Walsh

Brilliant, sums it up perfectly!

[Iolo]

It seems to me that the relationships between the peoples of the Archipelago contain more contradictions almost than capitalism itself, and that it would be more interesting to study them than to grow self-righteous. From very early on the boss-class had a huge interest in helping them to develop, and I think that, if we are honest, we all feel them at a surprisingly deep level still, as we do our historical connections. What price Yugoslavia?, I sometimes think.

[Griska]

I think Dublin is much more like an English city than Cork or Galway.
Not many people will thank me for saying that, though.

[Holly]

I think Dublin is much more like an English city than Cork or Galway. ...
The Queen got a far warmer welcome in Cork than she did in Dublin this year.

[Dr. FIVE]

I think Dublin is much more like an English city than Cork or Galway.
Not many people will thank me for saying that, though.

Sadly I think parts (http://i.imgur.com/oFkN7.jpg) of all three are identical any city in the world but that's a different thread.

If we are emulating our neighbours I think it's more a product of the hegemony across the anglophone world as opposed to any particular UK influence.

[C. Flower]

No. It would be more true to say that the UK is a little Ireland.

[morticia]

Yeh, well, when 400,000 people in a country of 4.5 mill are UK citizens and 11million of the 60mill across the pond are Irish/of Irish descent, that's what happens..... perhaps we need to save the acrimony for Merkosy and co, these days anyway.

[AJSD86]

Reading any newspaper in Ireland, Im pretty sure a lot of the news concerns the happenings in our nearest neighbour across the water. Coverage of X Factor was making the headlines as one singer was allegedly a coke head and the sports pages are filled with the latest going on in the Premiership. Talk around the breakfast table turns to Coronation St and Eastenders. The sheer apathy a lot of Irelands younger generation has to the world around them and the issues they face is galling, especially as they seem more interested in the latest going on's of our counterparts. The xenophobia that once gripped areas like Bradford and Leicster and spread to the UK that is now prevalent is now widespread here, we are no longer the island of a "thousand welcomes!"

Is Ireland becoming a little England?

Also its important to remember that most of the papers that you get are just slightly changed English papers. That's important because it shows that the dominance of English media has a lot to do with what comes to us and what we consume. We are too small to compete on the Airwaves and in print with much larger cultures and that is why American and British culture dominate. Particular America which beams accross oceans.
I think that you might be looking at the past with rose tinted glasses here. Ireland was never really a land of a thousand welcomes. We didn't need to say welcome a thousand times before but what we didn't welcome was gay people, women who didn't want to marry and have a baby or Travellers. I think in the grand scheme of things we probably welcome more different types of people now than in the past. Is that at the expense of some Irishness in our catholic past? Then so be it I would rather have a new culture where there is less people marginalised than live in a culture just because its more Irish.
I don't really know what young people were like in the past and whether there is a linear decline in young peoples concern with politics, hygeine, chastity, not loitering on streetsides, bring drinking, drug culture or whether there was a whole lot less molly coddlin'. I can say confidently though that it seems that there is a constant preoccupation with how young people do different things than adults and how thats making things fall apart aka moral panic. I think that young people are relatively easily to blame for these problems as they are a pretty powerless group in society. I doubt they however are watching corrie as much as middle aged women and I would say that many men of all ages watch premiership football. I'm sure too that the occupy movement is young enough here but thats a fleeting observation.

[fluffybiscuits]

Also its important to remember that most of the papers that you get are just slightly changed English papers. That's important because it shows that the dominance of English media has a lot to do with what comes to us and what we consume. We are too small to compete on the Airwaves and in print with much larger cultures and that is why American and British culture dominate. Particular America which beams accross oceans.
I think that you might be looking at the past with rose tinted glasses here. Ireland was never really a land of a thousand welcomes. We didn't need to say welcome a thousand times before but what we didn't welcome was gay people, women who didn't want to marry and have a baby or Travellers. I think in the grand scheme of things we probably welcome more different types of people now than in the past. Is that at the expense of some Irishness in our catholic past? Then so be it I would rather have a new culture where there is less people marginalised than live in a culture just because its more Irish.
I don't really know what young people were like in the past and whether there is a linear decline in young peoples concern with politics, hygeine, chastity, not loitering on streetsides, bring drinking, drug culture or whether there was a whole lot less molly coddlin'. I can say confidently though that it seems that there is a constant preoccupation with how young people do different things than adults and how thats making things fall apart aka moral panic. I think that young people are relatively easily to blame for these problems as they are a pretty powerless group in society. I doubt they however are watching corrie as much as middle aged women and I would say that many men of all ages watch premiership football. I'm sure too that the occupy movement is young enough here but thats a fleeting observation.

The original post in itself I have to add is not meant as a criticism, I live my life as an individual and do not feel any affliation to any particular culture, I enjoy them all and see myself as a global citizen ! My post was intending to understand the mindset of those whom are advocates of Republicanism but still to a certain degree enjoy English culture !

Certainly the media has a lot to do with it in terms of their dominance and the papers we get are filled with irrelevant information. The web was another thing I forgot to mention, looking at it online there is so much American programming that it is indoctrination big time.

Not sure about the young being powerless, if they were to rise up and revolt against society tommorrow I would be the first to hold my hand up and say fair play and admit I was wrong about them. The fact of the matter is they are so wrapped up in the pleasures of capitalism that they are indifferent about the economy, they dont want to know.

[Fraxinus]

We are not as susceptible to American influence as much as we are British influence. Part of me would not be surprised if some of the people in Republican movement themselves whom reject what they regard as a much maligned British society actually follow English teams and have subcincously absorbed some aspects of British culture themselves to the point where they are as much British as the British themselves.

Sport is sport. If someone objects to foreign games they are a nationalist. Once again republicanism is not nationalism.

I think we are as susceptible to Americana as we are British influences. How many kids do you hear going around with English accents from watching British television? Probably none. How many do you hear with American accents? Quite a lot, especially townies but not exclusively.
The language is the problem, as most of us have lost our native tongue being English speakers means that we will absorb more readily what comes from the Anglophone countries.

[Griska]

Sadly I think parts (http://i.imgur.com/oFkN7.jpg) of all three are identical any city in the world but that's a different thread.

If we are emulating our neighbours I think it's more a product of the hegemony across the anglophone world as opposed to any particular UK influence.

There's truth in this.
A few years ago, Griskette complained that downtown San Francisco contained the same shops as Dublin.

[fluffybiscuits]

Sport is sport. If someone objects to foreign games they are a nationalist. Once again republicanism is not nationalism.

I think we are as susceptible to Americana as we are British influences. How many kids do you hear going around with English accents from watching British television? Probably none. How many do you hear with American accents? Quite a lot, especially townies but not exclusively.
The language is the problem, as most of us have lost our native tongue being English speakers means that we will absorb more readily what comes from the Anglophone countries.

I can now proudly say I know the difference between nationalism and republicanism ;) Even on that point now about the American accent, on the luas home the other night there was a lot of young lads and birds chatting about "mom's" and something "sucks", not that this matters but perhaps it comes from the exposure to programmes like Jersey Shore and other such MTV produced programming :)

[AJSD86]

Not sure about the young being powerless, if they were to rise up and revolt against society tommorrow I would be the first to hold my hand up and say fair play and admit I was wrong about them. The fact of the matter is they are so wrapped up in the pleasures of capitalism that they are indifferent about the economy, they dont want to know.

I must say your setting the bar pretty high for young people proving they are not apathetic. They most overthrow society... Not what this topic is about but still just have to say that. ha

[fluffybiscuits]

I must say your setting the bar pretty high for young people proving they are not apathetic. They most overthrow society... Not what this topic is about but still just have to say that. ha

:D

I do admit perhaps Im giving them a hard time but you cant blame me can you? Although looking at Occupy Dublin there is loads and loads of them there but among the population in general, I find myself looking into an abyss..

[Sidewinder]

Reading any newspaper in Ireland, Im pretty sure a lot of the news concerns the happenings in our nearest neighbour across the water. Coverage of X Factor was making the headlines as one singer was allegedly a coke head and the sports pages are filled with the latest going on in the Premiership. Talk around the breakfast table turns to Coronation St and Eastenders. The sheer apathy a lot of Irelands younger generation has to the world around them and the issues they face is galling, especially as they seem more interested in the latest going on's of our counterparts. The xenophobia that once gripped areas like Bradford and Leicster and spread to the UK that is now prevalent is now widespread here, we are no longer the island of a "thousand welcomes!"

Is Ireland becoming a little England?

In my lifetime, looking back in hindsight, there has been a massive, really massive, sustained and aggressive pushing and projection of British culture into the south. There was always of course a certain strain of "sneaking regarder" Anglophilia in the Dublin media but sometime around the early 1990s this started to increase and from the late 90s became a full-blown onslaught of all things British.

To a large extent outside of maybe the GAA there's very little about Ireland any more that is Irish. Most teenagers just have a vague Anglo-American mid-atlantic consumerdroid culture, and seem actively scornful of anything Irish. From the 1990s on, distinctively Irish music and literature seemed to vanish, and most of our "cultural exports" in the time since have been vacuous Anglo-American chart fodder pap. Boyzone, Westlife and Jedward? Give me strength. We're all also aware of the aggressive praising of the British Army and the "glorious dead" of WWI, while increasingly the corollary that the men of 1916 were simple "murdering terrorists" becomes apparently the settled view of the media and officialdom.

So yeah, I'd say there's been a quite deliberate and intense programme of subtle re-colonisation in place for 20 years now...and it has worked. I personally expect the so-called "republic" to find itself back in the UK within another 20 years.

Twas all for naught.

[Shaadi]

In my lifetime, looking back in hindsight, there has been a massive, really massive, sustained and aggressive pushing and projection of British culture into the south. There was always of course a certain strain of "sneaking regarder" Anglophilia in the Dublin media but sometime around the early 1990s this started to increase and from the late 90s became a full-blown onslaught of all things British.

To a large extent outside of maybe the GAA there's very little about Ireland any more that is Irish. Most teenagers just have a vague Anglo-American mid-atlantic consumerdroid culture, and seem actively scornful of anything Irish. From the 1990s on, distinctively Irish music and literature seemed to vanish, and most of our "cultural exports" in the time since have been vacuous Anglo-American chart fodder pap. Boyzone, Westlife and Jedward? Give me strength. We're all also aware of the aggressive praising of the British Army and the "glorious dead" of WWI, while increasingly the corollary that the men of 1916 were simple "murdering terrorists" becomes apparently the settled view of the media and officialdom.

So yeah, I'd say there's been a quite deliberate and intense programme of subtle re-colonisation in place for 20 years now...and it has worked. I personally expect the so-called "republic" to find itself back in the UK within another 20 years.

Twas all for naught.There's plenty of truth in your post, this aggressive pushing of British culture ( even my kids in school are fed books promoting the nobility of the British soldiers in the trenches of the first world war) is suspicious if you think about it. The flipside of this Anglicising of the Republic along with the decline of the Roman Catholic church would be that it would make the Republic more acceptable to Uninoists.

Why has this pushing of the notion we are part of the British Family become so mainstream ? We always had the Cruise O'Brien type revisionists and their fellow travellers in the media, but it now seems to be offical Govt policy to play it up at every opportunity.

[fluffybiscuits]

In my lifetime, looking back in hindsight, there has been a massive, really massive, sustained and aggressive pushing and projection of British culture into the south. There was always of course a certain strain of "sneaking regarder" Anglophilia in the Dublin media but sometime around the early 1990s this started to increase and from the late 90s became a full-blown onslaught of all things British.

To a large extent outside of maybe the GAA there's very little about Ireland any more that is Irish. Most teenagers just have a vague Anglo-American mid-atlantic consumerdroid culture, and seem actively scornful of anything Irish. From the 1990s on, distinctively Irish music and literature seemed to vanish, and most of our "cultural exports" in the time since have been vacuous Anglo-American chart fodder pap. Boyzone, Westlife and Jedward? Give me strength. We're all also aware of the aggressive praising of the British Army and the "glorious dead" of WWI, while increasingly the corollary that the men of 1916 were simple "murdering terrorists" becomes apparently the settled view of the media and officialdom.

So yeah, I'd say there's been a quite deliberate and intense programme of subtle re-colonisation in place for 20 years now...and it has worked. I personally expect the so-called "republic" to find itself back in the UK within another 20 years.

Twas all for naught.


Not too sure I think there was any pushing of the British culture into the minds of our youth here. As the world becomes more globalised people generally have access to more media and other such similar aspects of British culture which they embraced. Ireland itself was very much a parish pump mentality, we never wanted to look outside our little island. The BBC has been available here since the early 70's then why didnt the British influencen take completely over? I disagree with your point with no Irish culture outside of the GAA. We had plays on in the Abbey, we had radio and one thing we did have and still do is TG4 a bastion of Irish culture. Ireland at the moment is staring into a black hole. We ask the British to help bail us out, we feel we have been raped by Europe and we are so entrenched and tied in and to America its like a symbitoic relationship, they pull out and we die....