Mossad and Irish Passports

[People Korps]

I have been following this story with great interest. 5 Irish passports used. Dubai is up in arms, France's Foreign minister says it is proof that a Palestinian state is needed now. The British are effecting outrage but may have known that their passports would be used. Robert Fisk says the British passports had holographs etc

This is bigger than Willie O Dea

The 27 min film from Gulfnews is a must watch
http://video.gulfnews.com/services/player/bcpid4267205001?bctid=66672644001

[People Korps]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c5VSAb0ol8&feature=player_embedded

[C. Flower]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c5VSAb0ol8&feature=player_embedded

Hi People Korps. Good to see you here. This isn't the first time that Irish passports have turned as a part of strange stories.

The "Irish passports for sale" case had more to it than would meet the eye.

Then there was the "Irish citizen", not Michael Dwyers, who was involved in the Bolivian affair...

[People Korps]

Israel is a state with which we have diplomatic ties, their abuse is easier to make a response to than that of al Queada using Irish passports. Osama does not have an embassy in Ireland.

[5intheface]

I for one believe the Israelis.

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv296/6intheface_2009/irp27b-Copy.jpg

[Andrew49]

On Thursday, the same day that Israel’s ambassador to Britain was asked to tell the British government if he knew anything about the apparent use of cloned British passports by suspects in the assassination of a Hamas official in Dubai last month, his embassy’s official Twitter feed posted a joking reference to the killing. After his meeting at the British Foreign Office, Israeli Ambassador Ron Prosor told reporters that he was “unable to add additional information” about the assassination in Dubai. Hours later The Guardian’s David Batty noticed that someone at the embassy in London had posted a link to an article about the success of an Israel tennis player in the Dubai Tennis Championships this week on Twitter with this comment:


You heard it here first: Israeli tennis player carries out hit on #Dubai target http://ow.ly/18A79

The link in the update led to an article about a victory by Shahar Peer, who reached the semifinals of the tournament in Dubai before losing to Venus Williams on Friday.

Israeli Embassy Deletes Joke About Dunai 'Hit' From Twitter (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/israeli-embassy-deletes-joke-about-dubai-hit-from-twitter/)

[Xray]

Does anyone outside of Ireland really care about this?

I mean this is SOP since the days of the cold war, I am sure other secret services use alternative IDs all of the time, including our own.

I dont like Mossad or defend their actions, but I suspect others would struggle to see why Ireland is so upset.

[Kev Bar]

I'm sure the shadowy figures in Mossad are wondering 'why all the fuss' this time round.
I wonder whether any passports were used when the Hamas guy in Damascus was killed by a car bomb.
Or the one in Amman that they failed to posion and got caught.
That's just in the past couple of years from the top of my head.
Wasn't there a waiter wasted in a mistaken identity mess in Scandinavia.

I think what happened here - and why it has blown up and forced "outrage" from countries whose intelligence arms may have given tacit approval - is that this was the first CCTV assassination.

And that meant the 24hr news channels could lead with the story and then run heavily with it.
If we didn't have our tennis players getting out of the lift and the whole crew arriving and then splitting dodge, we would have had a stand up outside the hotel and then the story would have faded into an occasional feature piece.

So let's thank CCTV for our new found morality.

And let's remined Mossad that the assassinations as well as the revolution will be televised.

[Kev Bar]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150126.htmlhttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150126.html

Wonder if the two Palestinians are by any way connected to the pixellated faces in the CCTV footage posted by peoplekorps

[estouxim]

And let's remined Mossad that the assassinations as well as the revolution will be televised.

That was indeed a great Irish contribution. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_%28documentar y%29) Thanks for the reminder.

What struck me most was the diference of tone between Martin and Milliband, the former seemed genuinely angry, Milliband very soft.

[People Korps]

People Korps has paved the way forward
http://peoplekorps.blogspot.com/2010/02/use-of-irish-passports-in-dubai-in.html


The Irish government should examine this matter it the most forensic way, and if a state was involved then the entire EU must react as one in making that state come to heal. A state is a sovereign entity, its passports the property of that state. A state stealing the sovereign belongings of another state in order to commit an act of murder is tantamount to a declaration of war.

If our passports are misused by another state it means they have declared that we are nothing but their playthings. Our sovereignty is void we are their pawns. To exist as a nation we must resist all such incursions on our Nation. If another state committed an extra judicial murder using our passports to cover its tracks then the Irish state must react robustly and mobilise our European partners for a diplomatic offensive from which the Middle East may be reborn, and the present conflict laid to rest. If Mossad did this then Israel must be made to talk and to come to the table. We hold the power now.

[C. Flower]

The attitude of the Israeli diplomats, from what I could see on the news tonight was contemptuous - having a good laugh. A bit like Fianna Fail just before Willie had to resign.

Mossad has used abduction and assassination as an extension of politics for decades. Perhaps this time, it was just too blatant.

[People Korps]

Fianna Fail could save themselves if they respond robustly to this.

The Nation's dignity and sovereignty has been violated in the commission of murder possibly by the state of Israel , with which we hold diplomatic relations . We don't let our passports get used in murders by other states and then blow hot air. Pan European action is called for.

[People Korps]

the use of an address 6 Elgin Road a vacant property owned by a brother of Albert Rynolds on a hotel receipt in Dubai by one of the assassins of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh may be a Mossad joke or an attempt to frighten our leaders into not responding to our passports being used in a murder.


A VACANT property in Dublins Ballsbridge, owned by a brother of former taoiseach Albert Reynolds, was given as a home address by one of five fake Irish passport-carrying members of the team allegedly responsible for assassinating a Hamas official in Dubai.

The Irish Times has obtained a copy of an invoice issued by the Jumeirah Emirates Towers hotel to a man travelling under the name of Kevin Daveron, who was last week named by Dubai police as one of up to 18 suspects in the killing of Mahmoud al Mabhouh last month.

The invoice – which notes Mr Daveron’s departure time as 1.40pm on January 19th, the day Mr Mabhouh was murdered in his hotel room – gives his address as 6 Elgin Road in Ballsbridge.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0223/1224265037686.html
This is something which must not be backed down on.

[C. Flower]

What do you think they should do ?

[People Korps]

1/ Move diplomatic pressure to a Pan European issue
2/ Launch full police inquiry and file charges against the users of the false passports
3/ As it was 99.999999 % a Mossad hit then Israel must be brought to account and Europe should use this a a pretext for cutting short their stalling in the Middle East
4/ Military force in the shape of our peace keepers with extended combat remits should be deployed beyond the blockade into Gaza and the West Bank.
5/ Condemn the execution.

aftermath

Is Israel going to threaten to nuke France ............I dont the French would like that and they hold Europe's independent arsenal.

But I am getting ahead of myself...................full pressure must be brought to bear, economic , diplomatic and pro active adherence to UN resolutions starting now, a new Un force to occupy all areas under discussion and indeed Tel Aviv if they dont want to talk.

Europe is bigger than Israel.

[C. Flower]

Condemning the murder seems like a starting point. Yesterday RTE was only complaining about the "use of the passports" for it.
Do you know anything about this man and the politics of why people wanted him out of the way ?

[Almanac]

The most surprising thing about this assassination was that it actually made the news headlines across the world. This alone was astonishing. If it had occurred somewhere other than Dubai, it would be unlikely to have become public.

[People Korps]

Plus Martin is going to visit Gaza throw the Rafah crossing this week. He was not let in by Israel last year.#
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0223/1224265034210.html

[Almanac]

The fact that they used a vacant address is interesting in any case as it demonstrates a degree of sophistication. Contacts here with a detailed knowledge of Dublin. In fact we've probably encountered some of them online in certain places.

[C. Flower]

It appears to me probable that the use of Irish passports was a quite deliberate choice to put pressure on Ireland's perceived pro-Palestinian stance.

[Almanac]

Plus Martin is going to visit Gaza throw the Rafah crossing this week. He was not let in by Israel last year.#
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0223/1224265034210.html

A couple of his equivalents were denied entry too. I was hoping that it was just Martin- would have made me proud to be Irish.

[Almanac]

It appears to me probable that the use of Irish passports was a quite deliberate choice to put pressure on Ireland's perceived pro-Palestinian stance.

It seems Irish passports are highly prized in general by spooks:


AS TRAVEL documents – fake or otherwise – Irish passports are highly prized by a wide and disparate range of groups and individuals. Col Oliver North is believed to have travelled to Iran on a forged Irish passport in 1986, during the Iran-Contra affair.

It is widely acknowledged in intelligence and security circles that fake Irish passports have been used by both CIA and Mossad agents travelling throughout the Middle East and Africa. Exploiting Ireland’s reputation as a neutral state with little or no colonial baggage, it is believed that international intelligence agencies have on numerous occasions employed false Irish passports as cover for spies and agents transiting through territories otherwise hostile to powerful nations such as the United States or Britain.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0220/1224264862052.html

[People Korps]

Indeed and funny they picked one owned by a FF family
2 more passports now said to have been used
So 7 Irish passports now used

The United Arab Emirates has identified a further two Irish passport numbers allegedly used by suspects in the assassination of a senior Hamas official in Dubai last month, according to a report.

If confirmed, this brings to seven the number of fake Irish passports, containing numbers that correspond with those of legitimate Irish passports, apparently used in the operation. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0223/breaking16.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0223/breaking16.html)

[People Korps]

Der Spiegel tracks down the German trial very well
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,679530,00.html

[Kev Bar]

That was indeed a great Irish contribution. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_%28documentar y%29) Thanks for the reminder.

What struck me most was the diference of tone between Martin and Milliband, the former seemed genuinely angry, Milliband very soft.

Well I would imagine that's cos MI6 knew what was going down and Paddy was left in the dark.

Re the documentary...great but if you could not turn such awesome luck- often the basis of the greatest scoops - into great TV, you should not be there.

Anyhow the original source, Gil Scott Heron, is out of prison, hopefully clean and writing again.

[Kev Bar]

It appears to me probable that the use of Irish passports was a quite deliberate choice to put pressure on Ireland's perceived pro-Palestinian stance.


I think you flatter the nation. I would imagine our posturing is irrelevant and that our passports were picked for the same reason Ollie North et al used them on their "off the radar" trip to Iran.

[C. Flower]

I think you flatter the nation. I would imagine our posturing is irrelevant and that our passports were picked for the same reason Ollie North et al used them on their "off the radar" trip to Iran.

Confusion between "Ireland" and "Iran", was it ?

[Kev Bar]

I think it might be down to this:
"If you're Irish, come into the parlor. There's a welcome there for you."


It's a passport that was seen as without baggage and with some anti-colonial credentials.

[C. Flower]

I think it might be down to this:
"If you're Irish, come into the parlor. There's a welcome there for you."


It's a passport that was seen as without baggage and with some anti-colonial credentials.

Yes, that is how we used to see it. It's fast becoming the marker for jackals.

[Kev Bar]

Yes, that is how we used to see it. It's fast becoming the marker for jackals.

Yeah. It's their day.

[Kev Bar]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0220/1224264862052.html

The Irish times on why our passports are a "spook's best friend."


The Times have really pulled off a scoop when they inform us:

"As foreign correspondents, Patrick Cockburn of the London Independent , Maggie O’Kane of the Guardian and Orla Guerin of the BBC have all reported from war zones while travelling on their Irish passports."

WOW Irish citizens use Irish passports..it's not just Mossad.

[C. Flower]

At least this time, unlike the Bolivian affair, they don't seem to have attempted to recruit Irish passport holders.

[People Korps]

FF Senators are not mincing words one says the hit was a murder etc calling for Gardai to investigate and suggesting that it was an embassy here that did the recon http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0224/1224265092220.html


SEANAD REPORT: CALLING FOR a Garda investigation into how the address of a vacant Dublin property owned by a brother of a former taoiseach came to be used by one of those who perpetrated the murder of a Hamas official in Dubai, Mark Daly (FF) said there must have been actions by an embassy here to supply that information. That was most serious.

Mr Daly said a lot of research had obviously been done to get the address of the ex-taoiseach’s brother and there must have been complicity in this country to come up with that information.

He would like the Minister for Justice to have a Garda investigation carried out into how that information came into the hands of the murderers. Mr Daly said Ireland had not been silent on the issues in Gaza and in the West Bank. But Europe had been silent on the invasion of Gaza, and it did not enforce the EuroMed Agreement.

Labhrás Ó Murchú asked that the House be given a report on the outcome of the meeting between Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin and the Israeli ambassador. Media reports had suggested that the ambassador had stated that he had no information whatever in regard to this case.

Some of the names on the false passports were seemingly now in the public domain. One of them was a fairly high-profile businessman. “At the very least there’s an unfriendly act involved here. But, on the other hand, it could also be a very dangerous situation in the context of security and protection of Irish citizens. If it is true that Mossad was involved in this particular murder and if it is also true that they were acting on behalf of their government, then we have reached a very serious situation... I would certainly hope that, even in the interest of maintaining friendly relations, we do not sideline this issue . . . once you turn a blind eye in one case, it can be done again.”

Seanad leader Donie Cassidy said the Minister was doing everything possible to try to find out what the truth and the facts were

[People Korps]

Israeli denial?

MARK WEISS in Jerusalem

AN ARAB member of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, yesterday accused the Mossad of carrying out a mafia-style hit, after his request for a parliamentary debate on the Dubai assassination was refused.

A stormy exchange took place between Arab and Jewish legislators in the Knesset House committee after the parliament’s presidency rejected the request by Arab Knesset member Taleb A-Sana for a debate in the plenum on last month’s assassination of Hamas militant Mahmoud al-Mabhouh.


And some of Zions views


..........
Meanwhile, in the strongest remarks made so far by any Israeli politician on the assassination, opposition leader and former foreign minister Tzipi Livni praised the killing as “good news to those fighting terrorism”.

Did she not just kill 800 kids in Gaza?

and they go on


According to Dan Halutz, the former Israeli army chief of staff, the Dubai assassination contributed to Israel’s deterrence against terrorist organisations.

“Every person like him, whose assassination is being attributed to us in the world by foreign sources and chatty Israelis, needs to think before every move, trip, ticket ordering or hotel booking online,” he said.

“These actions deter terrorist organisations, as well as states, who understand the capabilities of Israel’s intelligence,” he added.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0224/1224265091647.html

I guess we must send a message not in our name loud and clear they used 7 Irish passports to kill this man.

[Xray]

Israel are having a laugh at us. We should go to the EU, get back up and throw them out of the embassy. If they have so little respect for our opinion why do they want an embassy here?

There was a time when Israel respected us, Dev was the first country to grant Jews religious freedom in 1937. That was a big deal in 37. If they want to label us Nazis and try make irish passports difficult to travel on, fine. But they can F-off back to the middle east as far as I am concerned.

[People Korps]

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/picture-hamas-killing-1.588135!image/1293846762.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_475/1293846762.jpg

The latest Mossad cailin

Additional suspects

British passport holders:
Daniel Marc Schnur, Gabriella Barney, Roy Allan Cannon, Stephen Keith Drake, Mark Sklur and Philip Carr.

Irish passports holders:
Ivy Brinton, Anna Shuana Clasby and Chester Halvey

French passport holders:
David Bernard LaPierre, Melenie Heard and Eric Rassineux

Australian passport holders:
Bruce Joshua Daniel, Nicole Sandra Mccabe and Adam Korman

[People Korps]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/24/article-1253437-08729E59000005DC-151_306x348_popup.jpg

Another

[Kev Bar]

Apart from the red-head, the names are most West Brit.

[People Korps]

Apart from the red-head, the names are most West Brit.
Here is the best place to shop on this story
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/dubai-identifies-15-new-suspects-in-hamas-case-1.587918

[Almanac]

The latest Mossad cailin

Additional suspects

British passport holders:
Daniel Marc Schnur, Gabriella Barney, Roy Allan Cannon, Stephen Keith Drake, Mark Sklur and Philip Carr.

Irish passports holders:
Ivy Brinton, Anna Shuana Clasby and Chester Halvey

French passport holders:
David Bernard LaPierre, Melenie Heard and Eric Rassineux

Australian passport holders:
Bruce Joshua Daniel, Nicole Sandra Mccabe and Adam Korman

Is that dyed hair? Certainly makes her look Irish.

[People Korps]

The Aussies are fuming

"Any state that has been complicit in use or abuse of the Australian passport system, let alone for the conduct of an assassination, is treating Australia with contempt and there will therefore be action by the Australian government in response," said Australia's Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, without elaborating.
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE61O07020100225

[estouxim]

Anyhow the original source, Gil Scott Heron, is out of prison, hopefully clean and writing again.

Thanks for the info, I never heard of him before. From the wiki biography he seems to be an interesting figure. MalcolmX as a reference is pretty much a ticket to the Yankee Gulag. Cocaine possession normally costs no more than rehab clinic to the likes of Paris Hilton. I'll see if I like his music.

[Juan Reley]

The Aussies are fuming

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE61O07020100225

This is big deal. The Aussies are right. It breaches all international codes of respect for citizenship of other nations.

US clearly is behind this along with Israel. No condemnation is given by either.
UK is too craven and complicit to stirr it up.

It is expression of US/Israeli disrespect and a clear warning of intent and power to kill opposition.

[C. Flower]

I don't think we are really understanding how significant this is.

Did anyone else hear Tom Clonan talking about this on RTE ? He was spelling out how nothing about a Mossad assassination is accidental, and how there is a message in every aspect of it.

Micheal Mairtin's visit to Gaza today certainly would not be smiled on.

[Xray]

The australians are rightly pissed off, i think they are going to pull the plug big time...

[People Korps]

Its global if the government want to assert themselves they have been gifted

[C. Flower]

What will they do ? End diplomatic relations? Expel the Ambassador ?

Clonan mentioned in particular the targeting of the Reynolds family and the fact that the Reynolds house is a short walk from the Israeli Embassy. He also said that the use of asphyxiation by a mixed gender assassination team had shades of Abu Ghraib and was intended to deny the Hamas leader a military martyrdom.

[Xray]

What will they do ? End diplomatic relations? Expel the Ambassador ?

Clonan mentioned in particular the targeting of the Reynolds family and the fact that the Reynolds house is a short walk from the Israeli Embassy. He also said that the use of asphyxiation by a mixed gender assassination team had shades of Abu Ghraib and was intended to deny the Hamas leader a military martyrdom.

I dont see how loss of diplomatic relations would be a bad thing for us anyway. This clearly distain us and this we are against them anyway.
Waste of money and effort if you ask me.
They wont care about when we think but the wider EU and Australia is a different kettle of fish, they are not used to dealing with countries that can shove back and are not afraid of the yanks. They have made a big mistake here.
Killing this guy was a legitimate act of war in my opinion. Foolish to offend others though.

[People Korps]

News summery re Martin Gaza nad Dubai assassination
Gaza - Irish Foreign Minister Michael Martin on Thursday said that no Irish citizens were among the assassins of Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai last month. Martin, paying his first ever visit to the blockaded impoverished enclave of the Gaza Strip, told a news conference at UNRWA headquarters in Gaza City "the assassins of al-Mabhouh were not Irish."

Al-Mabhouh, a senior commander in Hamas movement's armed wing, al- Qassam Brigades, was found dead in his room in a hotel in Dubai on January 20. Hamas accused the Israeli intelligence service Mossad for the killing.

"They are people who forged passports that belong to Irish citizens," Martin told reporters about the assassins. He said the investigation would "continue in this serious issue until the truth is revealed."

The Dubai inspectors found out that upwards of 26 people, apparently travelling with passports of various European countries and Australia, participated in killing the Hamas commander. Among the European passports were a number from Ireland.

"I don't think that there is one single Irish citizen is involved in the case," said Martin, who crossed into the Gaza Strip earlier on Thursday through Rafah crossing on the borders between the enclave and Egypt.

He told reporters that his visit was at a United Nations request to closely look at the situation in the Gaza Strip, which has been under a tight blockade by Israel for more than three years.

He added that he came to visit areas that were destroyed during the 22-day Israeli war on the Gaza Strip carried out in late 2008- early 2009, leaving around 1,440 people killed, most of them civilians.

"I visited two schools and I looked at the educational curriculum, mainly teaching human rights," Martin said, adding "I saw by my own eyes the suffering of the schoolchildren who study at classrooms made out of steel."

He added that the reason that schoolchildren study at steel containers instead of regular classrooms "is not allowing construction raw materials into the Gaza Strip due to the Israeli closure of the border crossings."

Martin revealed that his visit to the Gaza Strip had to go via Egypt after Israel officially informed him that he would not be permitted to enter through the Erez border crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Read more: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/311305,irish-minister-assassins-of-hamas-leader-were-not-irish--summary.html#ixzz0gZx2BJZy

[People Korps]

I dont see how loss of diplomatic relations would be a bad thing for us anyway. This clearly distain us and this we are against them anyway.
Waste of money and effort if you ask me.
They wont care about when we think but the wider EU and Australia is a different kettle of fish, they are not used to dealing with countries that can shove back and are not afraid of the yanks. They have made a big mistake here.
Killing this guy was a legitimate act of war in my opinion. Foolish to offend others though.

Israel is a state not an organization , state terrorism is not to be condoned

[People Korps]

Aussie radio speaks to Mossad guy and other Israeli re passports
http://www.abc.net.au/news/audio/2010/02/26/2830757.htm?site=news

[Almanac]

Israel is a state not an organization , state terrorism is not to be condoned

It was a cold-blooded murder, and a savage one.

[5intheface]

It was a cold-blooded murder, and a savage one.

And given the slightest opportunity, they'd proudly do it again tomorrow, safe in the knowledge that the world will do jack.

Funny how exorcised so many people get about 'terrorist' murders but when a state sponsors the death squads, subverting the entire basis of their society's fabric, it's a bit-story for a week tops.

I came within seconds of being caught in the middle of a massacre in which four work colleagues were murdered. They were set up by the 'legitimate' forces of law and order in this country, mown down by weapons brought from South Africa through Agent 10-33 and pummelled to the bottom of the league table of victims by the media.

They died the same week as the Warrington bomb. Thousands of Irish people could tell you the names of the unfortunate children who died in that explosion, how many in truth would even remember the name of the town the atrocity I refer to occurred in?

[People Korps]

Actually The government tone is strengthening, Martin in Gaza today and a very strong out pouring in the Dail yesterday which is on the permanent record of the state by a gov Minister Dick Roche

Minister of State Dick Roche said in the Dáil yesterday that it was unacceptable that the six Irish citizens, whose legitimate passport numbers and expiry dates were used by the suspects, “could have been placed in danger by the irresponsible actions of others, particularly a State”. He added: “These are not the actions of a friendly country.”

Mr Roche said it was also unacceptable that the Irish passport had been “denigrated and besmirched” in this way.

“Whoever is responsible for having sullied Ireland’s reputation in this way has not acted as we have the right to expect of our friends,” he said.

Mr Roche said the Government did not have “categorical proof” of who was responsible for forging the passports, “but like everybody else we have our suspicions”.

The Minister noted that while the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad is “believed by many” to have orchestrated the murder, Israel had stated that there is no hard proof that this is the case.

Ireland deplored the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, Mr Roche said.

“His murder was wrong in law and made no sense politically. Regardless of what he is alleged to have been or done, his killing will not bring peace to the Middle East but has served to create yet another martyr whose death, regrettably, will inspire others to follow the path of senseless violence.”

Rhetoric on fake Irish passport use for killing hardens Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0226/1224265201421.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0226/1224265201421.html)

[Xray]

So if we fall out with Israel in a big way what effect will that have on us?

They will not take it lying down, we can expect economic consequences from starting a scrap with them.

[People Korps]

Suspect Bomb at Israeli embassy in Dublin
*


Suspicious package at Dublin Israeli embassy
Friday, 26 February 2010 13:04

The Israeli Embassy in Dublin has been sealed-off following the discovery of a suspicious package.

http://dynimg.rte.ie/00030c1210dr.jpg

Is this themselves looking for sympathy or the dissidents?

[C. Flower]

It could hardly be a little reflex from ourselves, could it now ?

[C. Flower]

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/02/2010225153440544986.html

An interesting interview with Hamas's leader in the Lebanon. The discussion is mainly about the need for Hamas and Fatah to reach agreement (not welcome to the US) and disappointment that Obama continues as a new Bush.

[People Korps]

Israeli intel sources say |Dubai cannot have DNA and fingerprints would be useless etc apparently admission non admission
http://www.debka.com/article/8618/

[Xray]

I probably am going against the grain here, but if Israel is at war with Hamas then surely it is morally acceptable to target key Hamas officers?

Far better to go in and kill one man on the ground than use air strikes etc.

If someone thought launching mortars at Ireland was a good idea I would not have much issue with targeting him. This is a military/secret service issue rather than a policing one.

However Israel is not at war with Ireland or Australia, if it was using passports for reasons to do with making life difficult for us that is a different issue.

I think Israel has totally lost its moral compass in recent years in the way it has targeted civilians, but it should also be said it is totally right that it defend itself from the likes of Hamas.

People Korps said that Israel is a state, in a way so is Hamas.

[People Korps]

I probably am going against the grain here, but if Israel is at war with Hamas then surely it is morally acceptable to target key Hamas officers?

Far better to go in and kill one man on the ground than use air strikes etc.

If someone thought launching mortars at Ireland was a good idea I would not have much issue with targeting him. This is a military/secret service issue rather than a policing one.

However Israel is not at war with Ireland or Australia, if it was using passports for reasons to do with making life difficult for us that is a different issue.

I think Israel has totally lost its moral compass in recent years in the way it has targeted civilians, but it should also be said it is totally right that it defend itself from the likes of Hamas.

People Korps said that Israel is a state, in a way so is Hamas.

Are they at war with Hamas? Strikes me that they are not talking peace with Hamas or anybody else. Hamas is not a state Israel is. Saying Hamas is a state is silly.

The morality of the murder is one thing but abusing Ireland and other EU countries covering their tracks must be responded to .

[Xray]

Are they at war with Hamas? Strikes me that they are not talking peace with Hamas or anybody else. Hamas is not a state Israel is. Saying Hamas is a state is silly.

The morality of the murder is one thing but abusing Ireland and other EU countries covering their tracks must be responded to .

Hamas aim to destroy Israel, therefore it is at war with them. You cannot set up an organisation that is dedicated to destroying a state and then cry fowl when they hit you. Hamas is more than a simple political organisation. It is in political power in some areas and has state backing from at least Iran if not one or two more countries. Hamas is a state in many senses. It holds political office and exercises extensive power over people lifes.

Now in my opinion Israel made a massive error morally and politically not settling with Palestinians that were more concerned with secular nationalism than a religious zeal to destroy Jews. But they are where they are. Hamas are not the PLO and cannot be dealt with while on their current path. It is perfectly reasonable to attack them directly. By calling that murder real murder is devalued. Bombing a school or denying basic food to hundreds of thousands of people is murder. Shooting a senior commander of a state sponsored organisation that is dedicated to destroying you is not.

As you say abusing the passports of "freinds" is another issue. It is not acceptable if that is what happened and we should not tolerate it. If they are not willing to explain and assure us it will not happen again I think the embassy should close. If Israel cannot accept disagreement from friendly countries then it is a lost cause.

I think people need to hold arab and muslims to the same moral standards as jews. Would we be as upset with Iran if it supplied fake passports to Hamas?
The behavior of anti Israeli elements is beneath contempt, this does not excuse war crimes by Israel. But it must be said.

[Almanac]

And given the slightest opportunity, they'd proudly do it again tomorrow, safe in the knowledge that the world will do jack.

Funny how exorcised so many people get about 'terrorist' murders but when a state sponsors the death squads, subverting the entire basis of their society's fabric, it's a bit-story for a week tops.

I came within seconds of being caught in the middle of a massacre in which four work colleagues were murdered. They were set up by the 'legitimate' forces of law and order in this country, mown down by weapons brought from South Africa through Agent 10-33 and pummelled to the bottom of the league table of victims by the media.

They died the same week as the Warrington bomb. Thousands of Irish people could tell you the names of the unfortunate children who died in that explosion, how many in truth would even remember the name of the town the atrocity I refer to occurred in?

Only locals?

[Almanac]

The victim's brother says of course he is not calling for military action from Ireland- just diplomatic measures

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/state-should-expel-israeli-ambassador-says-brother-112980.html

Just as well, bearing in mind Israel's 250-500 thermonuclear missiles...

Rhetoric hardening against Israel

http://www.google.ie/search?q=rhetoric+Roche+Hamas+passport&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

And Ging praises Martin for visiting Gaza:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ging-praises-martins-political-courage-in-visiting-gaza-113147.html

[musashi]

What do you think they should do ?

Something blossom, we must do something.


1/ Move diplomatic pressure to a Pan European issue

We wait anon.


2/ Launch full police inquiry and file charges against the users of the false passports

Even if the EU did establish the assassins' true ids in all likelihood these kiddos won't set foot outside Israel for the next 20 years.


3/ As it was 99.999999 % a Mossad hit then Israel must be brought to account and Europe should use this as a pretext for cutting short their stalling in the Middle East

It was 100% Mossad PK, that means Israel is responsible.


4/ Military force in the shape of our peace keepers with extended combat remits should be deployed beyond the blockade into Gaza and the West Bank.

Their lives will be forfeit, we've seen how Israelis have treated UN monitors, they kill them during their incursions.


5/ Condemn the execution.

Yes, if there resides some proof in the world that can tie Israel with this latest killing, that condemnation should manifest as the Israeli ambassador's expulsion from Ireland and the EU.


Europe is bigger than Israel.

Yes but we are US lapdogs, we're still supplying the US military through Shannon.


The most surprising thing about this assassination was that it actually made the news headlines across the world. This alone was astonishing. If it had occurred somewhere other than Dubai, it would be unlikely to have become public.

+1


I think it might be down to this:
"If you're Irish, come into the parlor. There's a welcome there for you."

It's a passport that was seen as without baggage and with some anti-colonial credentials.

Not any more, thanks Israel :D

[C. Flower]

a chairde,

FYI.

Is mise,

Aengus Ó Snodaigh, TD
Sinn Féin
http://www.politicalworld.org/cid:_1_07C8E47805FC79B40047B363802576D9
Question No. 318

Parliamentary Question - Dept Details

To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs his plans to impose diplomatic sanctions on Israel until they confirm that they had no involvement in the assassination of a person (details supplied) in Dubai in which the assassins used Irish passports to gain entry into the country.


- Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

* For WRITTEN answer on Tuesday, 23rd February, 2010.

Ref No: 9158/10 Proof: 342





REPLY


Police investigations into the assassination in Dubai of Mr. Mahmoud al-Mabhouh on 20 January are continuing. The identities of those involved in the assassination, and the organization or group responsible, remain to be established.

I met with the Israeli Foreign Minister, Mr. Avigdor Lieberman in Brussels yesterday and made clear my serious concerns at the fraudulent use of Irish passports by those suspected of carrying out this assassination. I asked that the Israeli authorities provide whatever assistance they could in this matter. Minister Lieberman said that he had no information on the events in Dubai.

Similar points were made when officials of my Department met the Israeli Ambassador in Iveagh House on 18 February.

The Government has made clear to the Israeli authorities that, regardless of who was responsible, we take grave exception to the forgery and misuse of Irish passports. Such action could serve to devalue the standing of the passports and potentially put at risk the safety of Irish citizens traveling abroad.


"We take grave exception"

However, the visit to Gaza by Mairtin and the reassuring presence of our troops outside the embassy are perhaps something.

[People Korps]

I wish I was doing the Dubai Pr, they are getting a bit sloppy. They need to hone it down and strike.
As time passes the moment is lost. (said he obliquely, Tai Chi).

[People Korps]

The government has been gifted with an international crisis to take our minds of the crap at home, they should run with the ball they have been played and show independent action. Roast Israel diplomatically, ie rescind diplomatic mission, suspend trade while lobbying for the EU to follow suit.

By taking pole position Ireland will be seen as a strong player and Britain , compromised by this affair, takes a back seat.

[electionlit]

Mary Fitzgeralds article in the Irish Times Yesterday (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0301/1224265372463.html) on the passports/ mossad scandal was quite pointed at the end....


All this is unfolding against a background of creeping anxiety within Israel that a point has been reached where it can no longer take international support and goodwill for granted. The damning UN-commissioned Goldstone report, which alleged war crimes were committed during Israel’s military offensive in Gaza last year, came on the heels of boycott calls and widespread protests over the deaths of 1,200 Gazans during the fighting. In Britain, arrest warrants have been issued against Israeli politicians.

Israeli officials admit that, while support remains at government level in Europe, public opinion of their country has plummeted to an all-time low.

Moshe Feiglin, president of Manhigut Yehudit, the largest faction inside Israel’s ruling Likud party, acknowledged these new realities in an acerbic commentary on the Mabhouh killing. “Somebody in the Mossad and the echelon that authorised the Mabhouh mission is still living in the 1980s. They didn’t notice that the Western world, and particularly the British, no longer sees Israel as the good guy in the story,” Feiglin wrote. “In the eyes of much of the world, Israel is no more than a pirate ship sailing on borrowed time . . . The world has changed . . . Israel can no longer expect the international community to wink its eye and look the other way.”

Israel is not likely to lose sleep over a chilling of relations with Ireland as a result of the passports controversy. Israeli officials, after all, are pretty much resigned to what they view as Irish antipathy. “Ireland . . . is currently one of the European countries most antagonistic to Israel, and a country where the hostility of the press is matched by the tone of the Government,” a columnist in the Jerusalem Post wrote during the conflict in Gaza last year. Earlier this month, another writer at the paper described Ireland as a country where “Israel’s name is routinely dragged through the mud”.

Through our time in Lebanon we are probably the country in the Western World with the most direct experience of the Israeli Army and the Israeli security services.
Anyone I know who has served on a UN mission in Lebanon is less than complimentary about the Israeli Security Services, Army and indeed the Israeli people.
It would do use no harm to expel the Israeli Ambassador.

[Kev Bar]

Are they at war with Hamas? Strikes me that they are not talking peace with Hamas or anybody else. Hamas is not a state Israel is. Saying Hamas is a state is silly.

The morality of the murder is one thing but abusing Ireland and other EU countries covering their tracks must be responded to .

Indeed why are they at war with Hamas?
Would it have anything to do with the money Israel pumped into Hamas as the PLO were making headway, Oslo was signed and Arafat etc were back and setting up in Ramallah.
ut it didnt want to. Hamas were anti Oslo so they were assisted to help undermine the PLO.

(The money which also came from Iran etc helped Israel by further boosting Hamas and helping erode Fatah support.

The fact that the Israelis were nurturing - what are oft described as - "Islamic Fundamentalists" could hardly have been unknown to them.
They had after all seen Hezbollah operate, organise, fight and finally force the withdrawal of the IDF from Lebanon.
(Lebanon. The very place where Israel banished several hundred Palestinian activist .
With Hezbollah as visiting professors, the Palestinian camp became a militant university)

However there was one really good thing about fundamentalists, a thing that was a godsend to the Israelis.
Fundamentalists aren't the best on compromise,diplomacy, nuanced thinking etc.
They tend not to see compromise a virtue.
It's a 'black and white'/ 'look down a Galil assault rifle or ride a rake of celestial virgins' world.

Israel's continued construction of settlements is eroding the last slivers of moderate middle ground that Fatah is hopelessly clinging to.
And even when the now older Hamas experiments with 'moderation' - stopping their suicide bombings, ceasing to fire rockets; What happens?

Do the Israelis honour their side of the bargain. No way.
No they then insist that Hamas stop Islamic Jihad from lobbing the very minor number of rockets that they fire.
(Who knows when Hamas are talking peace, Israel is prabably paying Islamic Jihad to fire rockets).
In a mirror image of the moves with Fatah, they ask Hamas to turn on their own people and act as Israel's cop.
But Hamas can see where that dance brought Fatah.
They imprisoned a few leaders. They alienated a lot of their own people. And when President Abbas turned to Israel to see what he could say to his people when he gave "the I know terrible things have happened, great divisions etc but look what we got. Finally!"
Dream on. The Israelis just asked for more. And more.
Soon Fatah had alienated many of its support base and there was dangerous tension growing between the two Palestinian groups.
The Yanks and the Israelis financed and armed a Fatah faction in Gaza.
But before they take on Hamas at Condeleeza Rice's or Tel Aviv's bidding. The **** hit the fan.
Fatah lost.
For the Israelis it was a win win win scenario.
The Palestinians were now split.
The moderates went out on a limb only to have it sawn off as they sat there.
Fatah was defeated in Gaza.
Gaza was now ruled by extremists who the Israelis would try and present as a branch of Al Qaeda.
A deception which with Gaza's isolation, humiliation, lack of education and above all the absence of hope or a sense of a future could come true.

Many Palestinians, desparing of talks think v iolent action is the only option.

If Palestinians engage in violence, the Israelis wont talk. Instead they build settlements.

If the Palestinians want to talk. The Israelis will first demand that they rein in the factions that still commit violence. In the meantime they build settlements.

Having the Palestinians now divided helps Israel. Who is talking for whom? And while this diverts attention. Israel builds settlements.

Israel didn't exist pre 48. So they have learnt one thing. Fact can be created.
Only the most virulent extremists call for the destruction of the Israel.
While it only came into being in 1948, there is a justification for its existence in its existence.

So overtly or covertly, Israel opposes and obstructs any possible peace initiative and undermines any Palestinian who might drop the messianic 'all or nothing' platform for a viable compromise.

To hell with peace, Israel wants to create a new fact: East Jerusalem and much of the West Bank as part of Israel.
Israel wants the rockets to be fired.
Israel accepts the occasional suicide bomber in Tel Aviv
Cos these actions stall the peace talks. (More settlements).
If the Palestinians pull out of talks in protest at their state of national imprisonment. (More settlements) The Israelis can say they have no-one to talk to and can get on with more settlements.
As the vision of Jerusalem fades behind the new hillside apartments and Gaza is firmly blockcaded, s Israelis to whistle while they work building settlements.
If the militants don the suicide belts, then Israel builds the Wall colonising Palestinian lands, cementing the hold on Jerusalem and depriving the Palestinians of a major image of statehood.
Depriving people of collective signs and symbols is also a part of its 'politicide'trategy.
Israel destroys anything that emanates from the Palestinian body politic; crushing and wiping out any of the symbols and organisations that define a group of people as a nation.

Dont buy into Israel's fabricated wafer thin attempt at playing the victim. Israel needs terror. Israel is more frightened of peace than terror.
The rockets are joke. They are an excuse.
Israel pretends to engaged in settlements. It's a downright lie. In fact Israel's sole pre-occupation is building settlements.
And so far they are whistling while they work.

[C. Flower]

Thanked post, KB.

Somehow, this reminds me of part of our own recent history too.

[C. Flower]

http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/28920/dubai-seeks-netanyahu-arrest


There have been reports for the last few days that Netanyahu signed off on the assassination in Duba.

Al jazeera reports that the head of the investigation wants Netanjahu arrested.

[People Korps]

someone should invite the Mossad boys on p.ie over here for a laugh, they'd get on great with KB

Dubai is to issue warrants for Mossad head and PM of Israel

[People Korps]

Yuval Tal links credit cards to IDF http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/who-is-yuval-tal-1.591725 (http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/who-is-yuval-tal-1.591725)

This guy is Ganleyesque, venture capital, and a special commando according to fox news

Dubai: The surfacing of Yuval Tal’s name in the investigation for the assassination of Mahmoud Al Mabhouh in Dubai has added weight to the pile of links pointing to the involvement of Israeli elements, but Tal’s involvement is of particular interest because it unveils links to Israel’s military and intelligence community.

The MasterCards used by some of the assassins were branded by US-based Meta Bank, but issued by another small company called Payoneer. The company specializes in prepaid debit cards that can be used as credit card alternatives for online shoppers.

and
Payoneer raised $14 million in venture capital funding, and although it is registered in the US, most of its employees are based in Petah Tikva, Israel. The company was named by Israel’s business newspaper Globes in 2008 as one of Israel's most promising start-ups.

Payoneer also helps organize Birthright Israel trips, by providing debit cards for all travelers. Birthright is an Israeli charity that offers free trips to Israel for young Jews mostly from North America.

He does not hesitate to use Jewish comradeship to advance his interests - in a 2003 interview to Globes he said, "New York especially has a lot of warm Jews holding senior positions. We were not ashamed to email people we don't know and tell them our story. We got a call back, with plenty of good will, almost every time."

Tal is referred to by his associates in Israel as "an outspoken Israeli patriot" despite having lived in New York for over ten years.

In a 2006 FOX News interview about Israel's summer war on Lebanon, Tal was presented as a "special ops commando" on Fox and Friends, and stated that "this is a war Israel cannot [afford to] lose" after an Israeli apache helicopter went down in Israel, apparently shot at by Hezbollah.

The video had disappeared from video sharing web sites after the assassination, but was recently uploaded to YouTube again [see video below].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FlHWlgoWq8&feature=player_embedded

[C. Flower]

Meanwhile in Britain Milliband went to a reception at the Israeli Embassy last week. Business as usual.

[People Korps]

now mossad are throwing bicycles at aussie cops
http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/04/1194871/Tandberg-420x0.jpg

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/afp-agents-face-hit-run-probe/story-e6frg6nf-1225837132015

[People Korps]

Interpol are now fully part of the investigation, 16 new red notices issued today
http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2010/PR016Gallery.asp

LYON, France � INTERPOL is to join a Dubai-based international task force investigating the murder of Palestinian national and Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh on 19 January 2010. At the request of UAE/Dubai authorities, the world police body has also issued a further 16 Red Notices to assist in the arrest of additional suspects now linked to the murder of Al-Mabhouh, bringing the total to 27.

The creation of the task force and the publication of the new Red Notices came as investigative information provided by the authorities in Dubai bore out the international links and broad scope of the number of people involved, as well as the role of two �teams� of individuals identified by the Dubai police as being linked to Al-Mabhouh�s murder.
http://www.interpol.int/

[Kev Bar]

A prescient account of the death of the Leon Uris inspired 'Shane' figure and the growth of the trigger happy bar-room bully is outlined in the best selling and relatively recent "How Israel Lost."
The predictable labelling of 'anti-semite' of any who criticise Israel has become a form of morally bamkkrupt bullyiing that was revealed in all its ugly form when it was levelled at Jimmy Carter.
Carter echoed the growing concensus that Israel has no interest in peace.

Although a tad academic, the spirit of The American Israel Lobby has started to seep into the psyche .... in particular how the lobby activates issues and provokes legislaiton that are not in the interest of the US.
This has been picked up in "How Israel Lost".

Israel's policy of "politicide" is becoming manifestly obvious.


(See my piece on Israel's terror of peace and policy of politicide in the Village Magazine some months back.)


Fisk argues that the Israel's moral warrior image took a critical beating in the 82 Lebanese invasion cos for the first time ever there was no functioning Arab government spinning ficitious victories to newsmen confined to hotel rooms.
Beirut was imploding and there was no authorities to stop those brave enough to go see what was happening.

Abd as we all know what was happening was not pretty.

It took a call from Saudi's KIng Faisal to Reagan to get the Israelis to cease fire.
With the provisio that the PLO ****** off to Tunisia.
What few were left behind aliong with the young and old were massacred as Israeli troops stood by and did nothing.

(Just for context though - when surrounding Arab countries have been faced with similar problems; Anfal in Iraqi Kurdistan, Black Septrember in Jordan, Hama in Syria - the state response tended to be way more heavy handed.)

To throw the word genocide around is to miss the modern PR conscious edge to what Israel is up to.
Politicide - the destruction of everything that makes a crowd into a people, that makes land into a state - is what the Israelis are up to.
That and their other religiously cherished belief - and one that history has proved to be true - YOU CAN CREATE FACT.

Anyhow, check my Village pieace if you are interested or for the origins of Politicide Baruch Kimmerling - following admirably in hte indefatigble shoes of Wlater Lempkin who coined hte concept and therefore the crime of genocide after world war 11.

[C. Flower]

Is it on line ? I read it at the time but would like to look at it again. The concept Politicide is useful.

Did you ever read the book on genocide written by that Irish American asset, Samantha Power (Obama's friend) ?
I think I'll get it from Amazon. Genocide tends to be mercilessly used by all parties to lever desired political change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Power

[musashi]

Is it on line ? I read it at the time but would like to look at it again. The concept Politicide is useful.

Did you ever read the book on genocide written by that Irish American asset, Samantha Power (Obama's friend) ?
I think I'll get it from Amazon. Genocide tends to be mercilessly used by all parties to lever desired political change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Power

I really really dislike Samantha Power.

[C. Flower]

I really really dislike Samantha Power.

x2 :)

[Kev Bar]

Know nothing about the woman personally but her book is pretty impressive. But pray tell what's the problem with her?

[People Korps]

Israeli ambassador snubs our parliaments invitation

ISRAEL’S AMBASSADOR to Ireland, Dr Zion Evrony, has declined a request to attend a meeting of an Oireachtas committee to discuss the use of forged Irish passports by a team allegedly responsible for the assassination of a senior Hamas operative.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0311/1224266045968.html

[C. Flower]

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/title-1703-en.html

The Oireachtas expresses disappointment that the Ambassador refused the invitation.

Is there any precedent for such a refusal?

What is the point of an Ambassador if he won't do the job ?

The Committee instead agreed to meet a Harvard Law Professor who wil put forward the Israeli response to the Goldstone Report on breaches of International Law at Gaza.

[musashi]

Know nothing about the woman personally but her book is pretty impressive. But pray tell what's the problem with her?

Not enough hours in the day - partisan crony, hysterical bs merchant, fake.

[musashi]

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/title-1703-en.html

The Oireachtas expresses disappointment that the Ambassador refused the invitation.

Is there any precedent for such a refusal?

What is the point of an Ambassador if he won't do the job ?

The Committee instead agreed to meet a Harvard Law Professor who wil put forward the Israeli response to the Goldstone Report on breaches of International Law at Gaza.

UN?

[C. Flower]

UN?

Yes. The report that is, not the Professor. He represents the Israeli Government.

[C. Flower]

Not enough hours in the day - partisan crony, hysterical bs merchant, fake.

National Security Council member now.

A cartoon cut out of a spook, if you follow her biography.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Power



From 1993 to 1996, she worked as a journalist, covering the Yugoslav wars (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Yugoslav_wars) for U.S. News & World Report (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/U.S._News_%26_World_Report), The Boston Globe (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/The_Boston_Globe), The Economist (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/The_Economist), and The New Republic (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/The_New_Republic).
When she returned to the United States, she attended Harvard Law School (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Harvard_Law_School), graduating in 1999. Her first book, A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/A_Problem_from_Hell:_America_and_the_Age_of_Genoci de), grew out of a paper she wrote in law school. The book won the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_for_General_Non-Fiction) in 2003. It offers a survey of the origin of the word genocide, the major genocides of the 20th century, as well as an analysis of some of the underlying reasons for the persistent failure of governments and the international community to collectively identify, recognize and then respond effectively to genocides ranging from the Armenian Genocide (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide) to the Rwandan Genocide (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide). This work and related writings have been criticized by the historian Howard Zinn (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn) for downplaying the importance of "unintended" and "collateral" civilian deaths that could be classified as genocidal[1] (http://www.politicalworld.org/#cite_note-0); and by Edward S. Herman (http://www.politicalworld.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman) for systematically ignoring genocidal projects sponsored by the United States in Guatemala, in East Timor, and Southeast Asia.[2] (http://www.politicalworld.org/#cite_note-1)


A very dangerous woman.

[C. Flower]

The British are about to expel an Israeli diplomat over the misuse of British Passports.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/britain-to-expel-israeli-diplomat-in-passport-row-451059.html

[musashi]

I'm incredulous.
The Brits are going to expel a diplomat?
And what do we do? We outsource our passport production to an Israeli company.

Why don't we expel Dr. Zion?

[C. Flower]

I'm incredulous.
The Brits are going to expel a diplomat?
And what do we do? We outsource our passport production to an Israeli company.

Why don't we expel Dr. Zion?

I thought that was a kerrynorth joke :eek:

[C. Flower]

Mr Miliband told MPs an investigation by Britain's Serious Organised Crime Agency uncovered "compelling" evidence that Israel was responsible for cloning the British passports.

He said: "The government takes this matter extremely seriously. Such misuse of British passports is intolerable. It presents a hazard for the safety of British nationals in the region.

"It also represents a profound disregard for the sovereignty of the United Kingdom. The fact that this was done by a country which is a friend, with significant diplomatic, cultural, business and personal ties to the UK, only adds insult to injury.


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/miliband-condemns-israel-over-hit-squad-passports-451131.html#ixzz0j2RvT1Xa (http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/miliband-condemns-israel-over-hit-squad-passports-451131.html#ixzz0j2RvT1Xa)

[People Korps]

Australia after finding evidence of Israel's involvement are expelling a diplomat http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0524/dubai.html

'These investigations and advice have left the government in no doubt that Israel was responsible for the abuse and counterfeiting of these passports,' he said.

The Israeli foreign ministry expressed disappointment.
Perhaps we can follow that example now

[C. Flower]

The Irish Report on this has been completed - any news on it ?

[Lapsedmethodist]

Australia after finding evidence of Israel's involvement are expelling a diplomat http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0524/dubai.html

Perhaps we can follow that example now

We set the example. We expelled a diplomat first.:)

[Lapsedmethodist]

Oops... it was the Brits. Me bad.
Why don't we do something ?:rolleyes:

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

We could start by not sending each other posts like this;


What did ******************** like you to promote such wrath ?

This '****************' takes exception to being described as such. I have reported your post and would advise mods to see the 'Israel Offered Nukes to Apartheid S Africa' thread.

[Voodoou]

Try this one. The department of Justice, Aherns mob. Have made it relatively easy to get an Irish passport. Also, the amount of passports reported stolen or lost by the "New Irish" is really quite amazing and literarally unbelievable. If Irish passports fall into the wrong hands then Ahern should have a look in the bloody mirror.


Anyway, didn't Albert Reynolds organise a passport for some Arab person in exchange for investment in his C & D petfoods operation.



It is rather easy to obtain an Irish passport if one has a few bob.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'm fairly sure that will have been a profitable little corner. I thought I saw recently where some fairly odd characters appear to have Irish passports as well as their own countries' passports.

I'm inclined to think it was the Blair's kids but I'll have to do a search and see if I verify that...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Yes... 'Begorra its the O'Blair kids' from the Irish Times http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6823537.ece

I seem to recall that Irish passports are easy enough to get- all of the CIA men on board the ill-fated Tehran embassy rescue operation were travelling on Irish passports so the CIA certainly had plenty back in the 70's.

Then there was the chap caught flogging them out of the back of one of the embassies (London perhaps?). He'd sold hundreds.

I've no doubt at all where the question about getting the kids a handy 'security' passport that threw people off the track of who they were came from. And I've very few doubts who took the call.

[Voodoou]

Yes... 'Begorra its the O'Blair kids' from the Irish Times http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6823537.ece

I seem to recall that Irish passports are easy enough to get- all of the CIA men on board the ill-fated Tehran embassy rescue operation were travelling on Irish passports so the CIA certainly had plenty back in the 70's.

Then there was the chap caught flogging them out of the back of one of the embassies (London perhaps?). He'd sold hundreds.

I've no doubt at all where the question about getting the kids a handy 'security' passport that threw people off the track of who they were came from. And I've very few doubts who took the call.


Hell Yeah, during King Charleys Reign.

You may recall that that offending official in London was never prosecuted and simply faded away, disappeared. One would think that strange but not in this ridiculous country.

[moss]

Australia followed Britain's lead by expelling an Israeli diplomat after investigations concluded four Australian passports used in the assassination of a Hamas commander were almost certainly forged by Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service.


The diplomat was not named, although reports suggest he was the Mossad representative at Israel's embassy in Canberra.


With Germany, France and Ireland, the three other countries unwittingly caught up in the saga, yet to make a formal response there will be concern in Israel that the fallout from the scandal could spread still further.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7760123/Australia-expels-Israeli-diplomat-over-Dubai-assassination.html

Why has Ireland not taken a stand over this issue yet ?
Perhaps this will encourage Ireland to take atleast some sort of moral stand although I doubt Israel is bothered one way or another.

I find the lack of action pathetic.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

We're going to lead by waiting to see what everyone else does first. I suspect it'll have more to do with phone calls from the US embassy asking the Irish Government not to respond like Britain and Australia.

Besides we wouldn't want to be seen as anti-semite which is automatically what critics of Israel instantly become and anyway Alan Shatter might get annoyed which is strange because as far as I know he was born in Ireland.

All very complicated and involves decision making so we could be a while yet.

[Lapsedmethodist]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7760123/Australia-expels-Israeli-diplomat-over-Dubai-assassination.html


I find the lack of action pathetic.

And the lack of action in all the other murderous hot spots around the world is what ?

[C. Flower]

And the lack of action in all the other murderous hot spots around the world is what ?

With Irish passports ?

[Lapsedmethodist]

With Irish passports ?

Not specifically. But Google " Irish outrage at Oliver Norths use of Irish passport" and see what you'll get.

[C. Flower]

Not specifically. But Google " Irish outrage at Oliver Norths use of Irish passport" and see what you'll get.

A few dozen cross-posts of the same point.

The Oliver North affair was pre-internet.

Of course I'm outraged. What is the point in all this whataboutery ?

[Kev Bar]

I probably am going against the grain here, but if Israel is at war with Hamas then surely it is morally acceptable to target key Hamas officers?

Far better to go in and kill one man on the ground than use air strikes etc.

If someone thought launching mortars at Ireland was a good idea I would not have much issue with targeting him. This is a military/secret service issue rather than a policing one.

However Israel is not at war with Ireland or Australia, if it was using passports for reasons to do with making life difficult for us that is a different issue.

I think Israel has totally lost its moral compass in recent years in the way it has targeted civilians, but it should also be said it is totally right that it defend itself from the likes of Hamas.

People Korps said that Israel is a state, in a way so is Hamas.

The kernel of the problem is that Israel kills such people to try and Hamas to react ..... look at the paucity of suicide bombs as feelers were being sent out to Hamas.

Israel cannot tolerate that. Cos as i highlighted at lenght in the Village, the thing Israel fears most is not terror but peace. As in a peace deal.

Even such examplary human beings as sari nuseibeh now acknowledge this as say the two state solutuion seems impossible.
All that can be hoped for is 2nd rate citizen status and that's unlikely.

People like Sari as he himself has been informed are israel's worst nightmare.

The new wave of Israeli historians like Benny Morris paint a true picture of the creation of israel that backs this.

And baruch kimmerling coined 'politicide' to aptly describe israel's crime and stop the dumb and counter-productive use of genocide.

[C. Flower]

At least one Irish citizen had his passport taken after the attack on the Gaza flotilla -

Press releases from Fiachra O'Luain and Shannonwatch -


Dear TDs and Senators,


First let me thank for you for all of your support and actions following our illegal abduction, detention, assault and the theft of my passport in Ben Gurion airport.
Now is the time for action. I believe that Minister Martin is a man of conscience who will act but he and the rest of us involved in this horrible situation need your explicit support beyond partisan politics.
I am asking all parties to support Minister Martin in calling for an independent, international inquiry into the massacre. I can speak to anyone interested in knowing more details. I have spent time with the captains of the Challenger 1 and the Mavi Maramara while in prison and can give you very precise details of the attack.
I am also interested in helping consolidate Ireland's leading role in this saga by calling for an Irish inquiry into the danger that all Irish citizens were placed in by the actions of Israel.


My Congressman William Delahunt and his staff have travelled to Turkey on a fact finding mission, I have also been in touch with a Senior Advisor to the Turkish Prime Minister. I am in contact with them all and I am interested in helping a co-ordinated international reaction with Ireland at the fore.


My personal feeling is that we have no real option but to must cut all diplomatic ties with Israel for the duration of the current Israeli government or at least until they issue a formal apology and lift the siege on Gaza. Of course we should all discuss this as equal citizens of this nation.


I will work to make sure that any strong position taken by the Irish government can be supported by the Democratic Party delegates who have invited me to speak of my experiences in the immediate future. A new, very complete article is to appear in the Cape Cod Times this week, as well as images of the armed attack on our ship the US registered Challenger 1.
Feel free to share this email and press release with your political and media contacts.


Yours Faithfully,
Fiachra Ó Luain
086 3193567


Shannonwatch Press Release 8th May 2010



Minister Must Secure the Return of Stolen Irish Passports and sanction Israel


An Irish Peace activist had his passport stolen by the Israeli authorities as he was forcefully ejected from Israel last week. This theft of Irish state documents by Israeli government agents is a grave matter of personal and national security, considering that it was only discovered in February that Irish passports were used by an Israeli hit squad to murder a Palestinian official in Dubai.

One of the activists on the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza, Mr. Fiachra Ó Luain, has written to Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheal Martin to demand that action be taken. Ó Luain was forced on to a flight to Turkey despite his legal arraignment to take a case in the Israeli Courts to contest his deportation order. His case was based on the fact that he was abducted and brought illegally to Israel against his will by Navy Commando assassins and could not therefore be legally deported. “We were political hostages, used as pawns by the Israeli government in a Public Relations war and we had all of our basic rights denied.” claims Ó Luain.

Mr. O'Luain's passport disappeared while in the hands of Israeli officials in Ben Gurion airport after they beat him on the ground. As a result he was left to make his way through a foreign country, injured and with no identity documents. This was a potentially dangerous situation for him. Travelling on a flight to Turkey without a passport is a crime that is punishable by Turkish law. Luckily Ó Luain managed to discuss this with Mr. Nabi Avu, Senior Advisor to the Turkish Prime Minister, who was on the same flight. Mr. Avu guaranteed that Turkey would not prosecute Ó Luain given the circumstances.

Shannonwatch, an Irish peace and human rights group with whom Ó Luain has been actively involved, have expressed serious concern at this precedent. “Fiachra’s basic right to travel and his right to an identity as an Irish citizen were put in jeopardy by the action of the Israeli forces. It’s a very dangerous precedent that Israel must not be allowed to get away with. As Minister Martin himself said in the Dáil, these people never chose to go to Israel. They were hijacked in international waters and brought there against their will. For Israeli agents to take his passport in those circumstances is an outrage” stated Dr. Edward Horgan

Ó Luain said he is very angry at the treatment he received at the hands of the Israeli security forces. “I am contacting the Minister to demand that he take action on this, as it is my right as an Irish citizen to hold my own passport and not have it removed by a belligerent foreign government. I was kidnapped by Israel in international waters, where I was travelling legally as part of a peaceful and humanitarian mission to Gaza when we were attacked and members of our party assassinated. Israel has yet to show any remorse and in fact added insult to injury by allowing its armed agents to violently attack me and others in Ben Gurion airport before stealing my passport.”

Irish passports are the property of the Department of Foreign Affairs and it is a serious offence to misuse them. For this reason Minister Martin is already considering the action to be taken against an Israeli embassy official suspected of being involved in forging Irish passports. “The confiscation of important passport documents by a foreign government is a serious act which should be addressed at the highest levels of Irish and European government.” said Fiachra Ó Luain.

[C. Flower]

Martin said today that he will be doing something about the passports...but that the issue shouldn't get mixed up with Gaza.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-to-act-shortly-on-forged-passports-scandal-461182.html

Fiachra O'Luain has been told by the Israelis that they have his passport still and he wants the Irish Government to get it back for him.

[Sam Lord]

Fiachra O'Luain has been told by the Israelis that they have his passport still and he wants the Irish Government to get it back for him.

Given the recent history, for them to take his passport was a studied insult to the Irish government. It was like taking the noses of those in the government and rubbing them in a big steaming dog turd on the sidewalk.

It only remains now to see how the Irish government reacts to such treatment.

[Sam Lord]

And while I am on the subject why is the Irish media, which got all excited about the killing of an Irish mercenary who was up to no good in Bolivia, not on the war path about the abduction and beating of Irish Citizens and the theft of their property?

[People Korps]

Given that Israel has now stolen Irish government property, namely Irish passports from the Gaza ship people , surely it is time we really kicked their diplomatic mission out of our country? Israel have disrespected out sovereignty on multiple occasions these past months that we know about.....enough is enough.

[StewieG]

Expulsion would give them even more paranoid delusions of a 'conspiracy' against them . They would use it as propaganda for their ignorant citizens . "Oh look , everyone in the world is anti semitic " they would say . I say let them stay . At least then people can express to them what normal decent , civillized people think .

[moss]

Expulsion would give them even more paranoid delusions of a 'conspiracy' against them . They would use it as propaganda for their ignorant citizens . "Oh look , everyone in the world is anti semitic " they would say . I say let them stay . At least then people can express to them what normal decent , civillized people think .

They are an apartheid regime and should be treated accordingly. Civilised people should have nothing to with them until they decide to act in a civilised manor.

[Lapsedmethodist]

They are an apartheid regime and should be treated accordingly. Civilised people should have nothing to with them until they decide to act in a civilised manor.

Read a comment somewhere that it's the job of a diplomat to report back the prevailing mood of his/her posting. Hard to do that if he's fecked out of it !

[Sam Lord]

Read a comment somewhere that it's the job of a diplomat to report back the prevailing mood of his/her posting. Hard to do that if he's fecked out of it !

It would give the zionists a really good sense of the prevailing mood .... no further reports would be required.

[StewieG]

In fairness though , if we didnt expell the nazis, the japs ,the yanks,the chinks,the ruskies or the brits, it is unfair to expel the kikes .

*all slang terms used for ironic purposes ,no offence intended*

[moss]

Read a comment somewhere that it's the job of a diplomat to report back the prevailing mood of his/her posting. Hard to do that if he's fecked out of it !

If he's fecked out of Ireland the general feeling would be so much easier to explain.
'Ireland doesn't like it's citizens passports forged or stolen to commit murder, it doesn't like it's citizens kidnapped and beaten and it deplores the murder of humanitarian activists in international waters. Ireland thinks it's a crime against humanity imprisoning 1,500,000 innocent people. I won't be returning until we start to behave as civilised people should.'

[C. Flower]

I think we should withdraw our own Ambassador and stop voting to embed Israel into EU institutions. The staff involved in faking passports should be expelled.

[StewieG]

I think we should withdraw our own Ambassador and stop voting to embed Israel into EU institutions. The staff involved in faking passports should be expelled.

We should leave those tokenistic political games to the Australians and others . Why expel some anonymous scapegoat ? Fair enough if folks want to chuck out the ambassador ,that would be 'symbolic' if nothing else but why play bull**** games ? I suspect most embassy staff are briefed and in contact with their own 'security forces' anyway .For example , I imagine the brit emabassy in Dublin was/is riddled with Mi5 types.

[C. Flower]

We should leave those tokenistic political games to the Australians and others . Why expel some anonymous scapegoat ? Fair enough if folks want to chuck out the ambassador ,that would be 'symbolic' if nothing else but why play bull**** games ? I suspect most embassy staff are briefed and in contact with their own 'security forces' anyway .

Of course they are. Personally, I would close the place down and send them all home, but that isn't what is going to happen. What I suggested is a minimum, is doable and should be done even by this awful Government.

[C. Flower]

John Mooney wrote in today's Irish Times that Gardai believe Irish passport numbers were taken from the passports when their owners left them with hotel receptions, when on holiday abroad.

"Mossad did not use the real names of any Irish citizen on the forged documents but did use genuine serial numbers. Two other Irish passports used by the hit squad when it murdered Mahmoud al-Mabhouh had fake serial numbers.



The killers used Irish sounding names and the address of a vacant property close to the Israeli embassy in Ballsbridge, Dublin....Gardai believe that this detail suggests that a member of staff at the Israeli Embassy provided information to Mossad when it was planning the assassination.


Both Australia and the UK governments have concluded that their citizens passports were faked by Mossad and have expelled Israeli diplomats.

The Irish government has done nothing.

A suspected Mossad agent was arrested in Poland yesterday on suspicion of involvement in the murder.





30 Jan 1972

[BrendanGalway]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0615/breaking32.html

Looks like we are going to ask for one person to be sent home as a result of this. Thats it.



The Government is to ask Israel to withdraw a member of staff at its embassy in Dublin following a report into the use of Irish passport numbers by suspects in the murder of a Hamas official.

The recommendation that the official be expelled arose following the consideration of two reports – one from the Garda and the other from the Department of Foreign Affairs passport service.

**************

“The fact that the forged Irish passports were used by members of the same group who carried the forged British and Australian passports, leads us to the inescapable conclusion that an Israeli government agency was responsible for the misuse and, most likely, the manufacture of the forged Irish passports associated with the murder of Mr Mabhouh.”


So they believe that Israel did it. But no expulsion of the Embassador and his staff?

Thats Weak, Mr Martin.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'Being asked to withdraw' .... how bloody pathetic. We've had both the chief witchdoctor (papal nuncio) and the Israeli Ambasador both tell the Oireachtas to take a flying leap and this is the best Ireland's foreign Minister can come up with.

I suppose its all the US embassy would allow Cowen to do.

[Lapsedmethodist]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0615/breaking32.html

Looks like we are going to ask for one person to be sent home as a result of this. Thats it.



So they believe that Israel did it. But no expulsion of the Embassador and his staff?

Thats Weak, Mr Martin.

Ireland isn't Iran or Venezuela, it's a civilised European country. ish! I just googled " embassies closed in protest at.." and didn't get much !

[C. Flower]

Ireland isn't Iran or Venezuela, it's a civilised European country. ish! I just googled " embassies closed in protest at.." and didn't get much !

Closing an Embassy would usually be a sign of impending war. Venezuela threw out a US "ambassador" who was proven to be actively destabilising their country. Well done to them.

Mossad faked Irish passports and used the passports to enable a murder. They took photographs of Irish citizens going about their lawful business in Ireland.

Then the IDF beat up and abducted Irish citizens and stole an Irish owned ship. They also stole a passport and other personal belongings.

Hmm. If they turn out to be behind the Bruton heave, then perhaps we might see their Ambassador go.

It would be appropriate for us to withdraw our Ambassador to Israel.

[Sam Lord]

Ireland isn't Iran or Venezuela, it's a civilised European country.

That is more than can be said for Israel. They are defining the word barbarism in our age.

[Lapsedmethodist]

Closing an Embassy would usually be a sign of impending war. Venezuela threw out a US "ambassador" who was proven to be actively destabilising their country. Well done to them.

Mossad faked Irish passports and used the passports to enable a murder. They took photographs of Irish citizens going about their lawful business in Ireland.

Then the IDF beat up and abducted Irish citizens and stole an Irish owned ship. They also stole a passport and other personal belongings.

Hmm. If they turn out to be behind the Bruton heave, then perhaps we might see their Ambassador go.

It would be appropriate for us to withdraw our Ambassador to Israel.

Now that I could agree with. For a period at least.

[Lapsedmethodist]

That is more than can be said for Israel. They are defining the word barbarism in our age.

Eh, no. In 2007 Al Sadrs boys in Iraq shot and killed the Iraqi tennis team for continuing " despit several warnings " to play in shorts.
Don't let " anti-Zionism " distort your reality.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I wouldn't worry too much about Israel. To borrow a well known phrase from our own history they are basically writing their own death warrant.

The Americans never thought they'd have passenger jets hitting buildings in New York and that their gutless support for an apartheid fake state would ever come back to haunt them.

It did.

[Sam Lord]

Eh, no. In 2007 Al Sadrs boys in Iraq shot and killed the Iraqi tennis team for continuing " despit several warnings " to play in shorts.
Don't let Jew hatred distort your reality.


They destroyed the infrastructure of an entire country (Lebanon) in response to the capture of three or four of their soldiers. Collective punishment for the entire population. War Crime. Barbarism. They showered the place with thousands of cluster bombs in the final hours of a conflict that was over. Utter barbarism.

The reduced Gaza to rubble in response to the shooting of a few fireworks into Israel. Disproportionate. Collective punishment. War Crime. Barbarism.

They have maintained a blockade of Gaza for four years that is designed to punish the entire population. A humanitarian crime according to the Red Cross and contrary to the Geneva Convention. Barbarism. The children of Gaza have not even been allowed to have toys. Utter barbarism.

They have killed more children than you have had hot dinners and certainly hundreds more than any militia in Iraq or anywhere else. They defy international law and the rulings of the United Nations ... they have killed many UN observers. The murder anywhere in the world that suits them and respect the sovereignty of no country ... including your own. The law of the jungle is the only one they go by ... utter barbarians.

And according to surveys the majority of the population appears racist to the core and would not even have a Palestinian in their home !

And you relate to all this ... it must be your anti arab hatred distorting your reality,

[disability student]

Closing an Embassy would usually be a sign of impending war. Venezuela threw out a US "ambassador" who was proven to be actively destabilising their country. Well done to them.

Mossad faked Irish passports and used the passports to enable a murder. They took photographs of Irish citizens going about their lawful business in Ireland.

Then the IDF beat up and abducted Irish citizens and stole an Irish owned ship. They also stole a passport and other personal belongings.

Hmm. If they turn out to be behind the Bruton heave, then perhaps we might see their Ambassador go.

It would be appropriate for us to withdraw our Ambassador to Israel.

Martin had stated that he won't withdraw Israel Ambassador for the sake in order to keep our trade relations alive ie exports/imports.

He has been ineffective as long as he was/is in the foreign ministry. It would be appropriate to expel two Israeli staff who were probably involved in the passport. It takes two to do a job not one.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I notice its even worse. If you look into the detail it appears that a 'designated' person woud be requested to withdraw.

So basically Israel sends in another junior 'diplomat' (Mossad pup) to swap over for the one who has left.

So the overall effect is 'Nil'. Which means that if Irish politicians aren't going to do their job then I suspect its down to ordinary people to get Israeli produce shifted off Irish shelves.

The Minister for Defence needs to be asked about the state of play with regard to Israeli arms being bought for the Defence forces as well.

I suspect that when we're talking about Irish exports/trade with Israel what is really being meant is 'US/Israeli' trade.

There's a smell of US embassy off this quite obviously pathetic response from the Irish government. Somebody somewhere has been promised a nice holiday on Cape Cod.

[disability student]

I notice its even worse. If you look into the detail it appears that a 'designated' person woud be requested to withdraw.

So basically Israel sends in another junior 'diplomat' (Mossad pup) to swap over for the one who has left.

So the overall effect is 'Nil'. Which means that if Irish politicians aren't going to do their job then I suspect its down to ordinary people to get Israeli produce shifted off Irish shelves.

The Minister for Defence needs to be asked about the state of play with regard to Israeli arms being bought for the Defence forces as well.

I suspect that when we're talking about Irish exports/trade with Israel what is really being meant is 'US/Israeli' trade.

There's a smell of US embassy off this quite obviously pathetic response from the Irish government. Somebody somewhere has been promised a nice holiday on Cape Cod.

Yeah re 'designated person'. That was too soft as it means Israel can send person of their 'own choosing' home. If I were Micheal Martin, i would state 'No replacements'.

I think that Israel was only recent re joining the diplomatic corps and think it was a huge mistake on Dept of Foreign affiar's part. They shouldn't be admitted into the Diplomatic corps at all after what's happened. Now they are trying to enter the door of OECD.

The bar code for all Israeli products are 0729 as it would be useful for other to have a good look before they buy it.

Link:http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bdsmovement.net/files/u12/israel-barcode.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bdsmovement.net/%3Fq%3Dnode/9&h=194&w=343&sz=41&tbnid=M4H71buK0IiiVM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbar%2Bcode%2B%2Bisrael&hl=en&usg=__IHMqHKl1HGNKtB-ISevezgcetaM=&sa=X&ei=vboXTKDlBYL-4Abpn8n3Cw&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAw

[People Korps]

Poland have a suspected passport forger / Mossad agent in custody and have decided he can be extraduited to Germany .Yeah http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10541332.stm

[Binn Beal]

Ireland has blocked a proposed European Commission data-sharing plan with Israel. If adopted the proposal would have given the green light to EU member states to allow the transfer to and storage of sensitive personal data on European citizens to Israel.

The Israelis believe that this is Cowan's retaliation for them using our passports.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/ireland-seeks-to-block-israel-access-to-data-on-eu-citizens-1.301180

I hate to say this but three cheers for Brian Cowan.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Hmmm ... the US tried to get access to European databases by the back door a couple of years back and were told to get stuffed by the EU so it sounds like they've tried to get it done again via their dogs in the Middle East.

I'm not sure Cowan will have had much to do with it but probably the EU people telling him not to do it ...

[C. Flower]

Well Captain, we came good for once, as Ireland objected and the EU voted it down - the data will not be given to Israel.

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/eu-stalls-israeli-data-plan-after-irish-objection/

Nice understatement here from newstalk -


We had objected because Israeli data protection laws are not on a par with those in the EU especially in relation to passport control.

[Kev Bar]

Eh, no. In 2007 Al Sadrs boys in Iraq shot and killed the Iraqi tennis team for continuing " despit several warnings " to play in shorts.
Don't let " anti-Zionism " distort your reality.

Anyone for atrocity ping pong?

Good news Cactus. But why is Aherne expressing surprise? Given that it was Ireland that supposedly blocked the move.
Strange.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Well Captain, we came good for once, as Ireland objected and the EU voted it down - the data will not be given to Israel.

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/eu-stalls-israeli-data-plan-after-irish-objection/

Nice understatement here from newstalk -

Ha ha- excellent understatement indeed... the yanks won't be happy as they'll have put Israel up to making the request anyway ... the yanks wanted this data from the EU not so long ago and have now been turned officially and via their 'partner' in the middle east.

I'll have to dig into this one- someone appears to have grown some nuts or otherwise it may have seemed more diplomatic to not mess around with the EU while we are dependent on the ECB for funds ... a nice little game of tennis here somewhere!

Ta for this CF- its made my day. In fact- 'mazeltov'

[Griska]

Ha ha- excellent understatement indeed... the yanks won't be happy as they'll have put Israel up to making the request anyway ... the yanks wanted this data from the EU not so long ago and have now been turned officially and via their 'partner' in the middle east.

I'll have to dig into this one- someone appears to have grown some nuts or otherwise it may have seemed more diplomatic to not mess around with the EU while we are dependent on the ECB for funds ... a nice little game of tennis here somewhere!

Ta for this CF- its made my day. In fact- 'mazeltov'

Why didn't the Yanks ask themselves?

Aherne is unbelievable. Sounds like he'd forgotten or it wasn't a big deal.

[Kev Bar]

Well Captain, we came good for once, as Ireland objected and the EU voted it down - the data will not be given to Israel.

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/eu-stalls-israeli-data-plan-after-irish-objection/

Nice understatement here from newstalk -

Eventually a gesture.

[C. Flower]

Eventually a gesture.

It's a more practical measure than sending a diplomat home.

That is, if the data isn't being passed over under the table.

[Kev Bar]

It's a more practical measure than sending a diplomat home.

That is, if the data isn't being passed over under the table.

Any idea why our Justice Minister is expressing surprise re our own actions.
That's bizarre. Or a bizarre piece of journalism (the newstalk report)

[Kev Bar]

Aherne is unbelievable. Sounds like he'd forgotten or it wasn't a big deal.

Precisely.

[Seán Ryan]

This is mostly bullshít imo. We give the US the data and they give it to Israel. In the meantime our goons earn themselves some street cred.

[disability student]

This is mostly bullshít imo. We give the US the data and they give it to Israel. In the meantime our goons earn themselves some street cred.

Yeah in a roundabout way.:rolleyes:

[Fraxinus]

Well Captain, we came good for once, as Ireland objected and the EU voted it down - the data will not be given to Israel.

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/eu-stalls-israeli-data-plan-after-irish-objection/

Nice understatement here from newstalk -

This also begs the question of how the supposedly democratic EU can hand data on its citizens over so easily. Keeping in mind Ireland has only delayed this move.

It seems the Commission is the one that decides....unelectable and unaccountable. A nice little democracy we live in...Lisbon me hole!